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View Full Version : Newb Help with HE - Does this list suck???



karandras
09-11-2010, 01:48 PM
I am an experienced 40k player with multiple armies, but with the release of 8th edition am looking to branch into Fantasy. I paint well, but slowly, and often look to make smallish armies that are effective and shun horde lists. I have compiled a potential 2500 point High Elf list centered around the miniatures supplied in the IoB set, which I now have two of. I am a tournament player and am hoping some experienced players out there can give me a little bit of feedback on this list. Thanks!

Lords:
Teclis + 475 (Lore of Shadow or maybe occassionally Beasts)

Heroes:
Caradryan + 175 (General)
Mage (Lvl 2, w/Guardian Phoenix, Jewel of Dusk + 175 (High Magic)

Core:
30 Lothern Seaguard w/Full Cmnd, Shields, Standard of Discipline + 430
25 Lothern Seaguard w/Full Cmnd, Shields + 350

Special:
15 Swordmasters w/Full Cmnd, Banner of Arcane Protection, Armour of Caledor + 305
14 Pheonix Guard w/Full Cmnd, Gleaming Pennant, Potion of Strength + 265 (Led byCaradryan)
5 Dragon Princes w/Full Cmnd, Wailing Banner, Silverskein + 275

Rare:
Great Eagle + 50

Obviously, the army relies heavily on magic to make an impact. The 55 Longbows from the Seaguard are an added nuisance that can hopefully wittle down an enemy unit by concentrating fire and they can hold their own in combat due to the sheer number of attacks. The Pheonix Guard and Sword Masters are the hard hitting hand to hand units and the Dragon Princes are ideally going to hold back on a flank and hope to hit a unit already engaged by one of the other units in the flank, or go by themselves sweeping away oppoenent's small units if the opportunity presents itself. The Great Eagle, is of course to try and hunt war machines, shield the Dragon Princes, or assist in combat if needed.

I already own about half of the Seaguard, Teclis, the Mage, the Sword Masters, the Dragon Princes, and the Great Eagle, so it's an army I can finish on the cheap. In order to expand it to 3000 point level, all I was going to do is add 2 Lion Chariots, 2 Bolt Throwers, and another Great Eagle (only 5 models to paint).

My questions to you experienced elven players and tournament players are:

Is it at all effective???
Or, should I scrap it and start over???
Is an ASB a must, or will it survive without it???

I considered dropping Teclis and using the IoB Griffon Prince as Eltharion , adding in another level 2 Mage, and making a different list altogether. I am also a bit unsure of the Phoenix Guard and Caradryn as that is a huge chunk of points and I don't own any of the models, but a Fear Causing unit with a 4+ Ward Save, Ld 9 and Magic Resistance 3 seemed like a pretty hard unit. Are White Lions better???

Thanks for taking the time!

joescalise
09-17-2010, 06:17 AM
I would say the list is fine, but do not give Teclis those lores, he needs either Fire or heaven to use all of his abilities.

karandras
09-17-2010, 08:37 AM
Thanks Joe! It's Gabe up in jax. Good to hear from you and nice to get a response! I had assumed that there were:

1) not very many people who had enough experience with 8th to feel comfortable commenting
2) not very many HE players
3) everyone was busy with the start of NFL and College Football seasons
4) nobody cared

Thanks for the feedback! I like Lore of Shadows for mindrazor and a few of the other spells that boost units. Pit of Shades isn't bad either. I'll take another look through them though. I won't be making it to Hurricon this year, but Bolter Beach II is a likely possibility. Hope to see you soon!

cypher623
09-17-2010, 04:32 PM
Just some observations. All of your units are too big. Under the 8th edition rules a unit is prohibited from charging more than one unit unless it is impossible to avoid that result. Therefore when you face hordes you want smaller units, especially since you are running elites. Let them charge one, then hit em' on the flanks with your spare units. If you stagger your squads just right the flanks will be wide open. You will not be able to outnumber your opponent, but you will be able to out unit him with good quality troops. White lions are best at being the bait unit because they have the awesome save vs. missile weapons and they are stubborn.

Also, I have been playtesting since 8th came out and I played in the ardboyz against a teclis heavens list. Those big units of seaguard are magnets for any stonethrowers. I pulped a 50 man unit with my o&g stonethrowers. But if you run them in smaller blocks it is hard to maximize fire on template weapons and you don't have to worry about the 50% rule on the unit anymore he will have to kill all of the models to get his points. I have run dragon princes and they are super fragile as are the seaguard. I would just run the seaguard as spearmen, put them in 15 man blocks and then run two or three units of ten white lions. Nothing big for your opponent to target, but if he reaches your lines with two hordes, you will have him out unit-ed 3 to one.

I really think High Elves will be one of the harder lists to run under 8th. I have a ton of models and played them to the finals in 2009 ardboys, but template weapons are so wicked and their armor is so weak I worry that a couple of mortar vollies and your army will be in pieces. Good luck though.

karandras
09-18-2010, 03:05 PM
Thanks Cypher. I will have to get more games with proxies and unpainted models under my belt before I begin this venture.

karandras
09-18-2010, 03:06 PM
Thanks Cypher. I will have to get more games with proxies and unpainted models under my belt before I begin this venture.

urzoon
09-18-2010, 07:54 PM
15 man units of spearmen make no since. it will not even let you take advantage of all there atacks. Also a single great eagle will not make it across the board to war machines and even when it does on the rare ocasion it does happen it will not win combat against most armies. I think your points would be better spent on pumpng up one of your other units and let your magic take care of the machines or protect your troops so you dont have to worry about them as much. Also with your seagaurd units I would just run them in ranks of 5 when u get close to combat. You can start them spread out for the first turn posably two to use their bows, then use the musican to reform as you move up close to comabt. That way your spears still give you plunty of atacks. Also the last thing you want is to get them boged down by leting your oponent be steadfast. Steadfast kills elite armys in this addition. So use the bows to knock out a few models posably a rank or two then form up to have the extra rank yourself and they will do fine against most foes.

Nikephoros
09-19-2010, 04:27 AM
Actually a 5x3 unit of HE spearmen would get all their attacks.

And Teclis should always be lore of Life or Lore of Death depending on what you want him to be for your army.

urzoon
09-20-2010, 10:24 PM
i was refering they would not get all thier potintial atacks. elves with spears get to fight in 4 ranks

Jwolf
09-21-2010, 11:03 AM
A BSB with World Dragon is so worth it.

I would go with Life on Teclis, as it will make the army about 50% tougher. Banner of Sorcery on a unit would also be good - your average magic phase is only 9 PD here, and 11 would be better.

5 Dragon Princes are a waste of points; better off getting an RBT and more boots. Neither the Princes or the Eagle will do much for you in 8th, but the Eagle at least is cheap.