New to Eldar, 2k!

[Image]

Torrent of Fire!!

HQ
-Eldrad
-Avatar

Total: 365

Troops
Dire Avengers x 10
w/ Exarch, Two shuriken Catapults, Bladestorm
w/ Wave Serpent, Spirit Stones, T.L. E.M.L.

Total: 282 (x3)
= 846

Heavy Support
War walkers x 3
+Scatter laser x2 per walker
Total: 180 (x2)
=360

Wraithlord - 90
+Wraithblade - 10
+Bright Lance - 40
Total: 140

Total: 400

Elites
Striking Scorpions x 7
w/ Exarch, Shadowstrike
Total: 144 (x2)
= 288

Army Total: 1,999

So, as mentioned at the top, this list tries to focus on one thing and, I feel, does it well. After a recent tournament, I came to realize that generalizing any list too much weakens it. My attitude now is that you want to create a simple strategy and pursue it aggressively. As such, my focus is this: More dice!

With that being said, I want to point out that I have a couple of units that seem to disagree with that notion, namely my Avatar, Wraithlord, and the Wave Serpents. The MCs are counter-assault and provide some heavier anti-tank capabilities, as do the Wave Serpents - it's not great, but better than nothing. :P If my opponent deploys a LR, I'm just happy to note that I won't be completely helpless with the combined efforts of the Avatar and WL.

Alright, now here are the strengths that I've identified. Except for the units I've already mentioned, everything can pour a lot of dice into a single unit. This overwhelming fire has been designed with wound allocation in mind, so everything is identical. Search and destroy, then move on to the next target, effectively. As well, this list is mobile. With both walker units outflanking, side armour is vulnerable and the Scorpions threaten back-table deployers, looking to contest out of reach objectives.

The only units not able to move quickly or have a special way to deploy are the MCs. Both of these guys get to benefit from Eldrad's redeployment and can either be positioned to take advantage of cover or to cover the tanks.

Anyhow, I'm rather new with Eldar, having only played a few games with them in 4th ed., but having won a Wraithlord at the tournament last weekend, I'd like to try something completely different from my Ultramarines. :)

C&C very welcome!

thanks!

[Splug]

Congratulations on playing a non-imperial force! Now you too can gloat that you beat people with a 4th edition army while shrugging off losses by blaming codex creep!

Overall, the list has a pretty sound concept. Blast away at light transports until a few pop open, then dump dire avenger squads on them and fire until no one's left standing, get back in the bus and do it all over again. Volume of fire armies like this excel against both heavy armor / low model count armies and lightly armored swarms. Doom even allows the volume fire to be effective against T6 mc's and the like. The largest problem I've faced with the Eldar codex is far and away mech-heavy armies, and getting rid of transports to allow the billionty shuriken rounds to do what they're meant for. Scatter lasers are great for taking down light transports like chimeras from the side, or rhinos. If you're forced to shoot at AV12 (for example, against another eldar army or a guard army with russ's blocking the flanks) or higher (BA/BT spamming land raiders) you'll be in for a rough game with just 4 S8 shots and no melta weapons. Don't forget those transports are front armor 12, and fast/skimmer/tank. A 15" ram is a free S8 auto-hit, and at 21-24" you'll hit them for S10 while they only hit back for S8 due to the energy field. Wave serpents that lose their weapon become guided missiles.

As you've already acknowledged, the biggest concern I'd see for your army is the different tiers of mobility. Wraithlords are great if the rest of your army is also on foot, but in a mech-heavy force you're probably better off using the slot for a falcon - the WL will just be ignored until turn 4 or 5 when he finally gets close enough to be scary, or the rest of your army needs to hold back long enough for him to keep up. For the role of smashing land raiders, you may be better off grabbing a wave serpent with some fire dragons. The avatar is similarly going to have issues keeping up with the army, but at least you don't have to worry about him falling asleep. He also has enough attacks to fend for himself he's caught in combat. If you plan to stick with the WL, you may want to go ML/Lance and just accept that he will be out in back raining down BS4 anti-tank shots.

The scorpion exarchs should probably have claws. Wound allocation will save them from your I5 attacks and shooting, but I1 cleanup can't be allocated to hide invul saves since it's a different initiative step. Since the exarchs don't give up their chainswords (which are also a special weapon) to take a claw, you can still choose to strike at I6 with the +1 STR weapon.

[DrLove42]

Its a very solid list.

My two slight comments are more personal preference than anything else.

1)I'd take Banshees over Scorpions. Scorps deal with hordes, whereas Banshees deal with armoured targets. With the amount of fire you have to the rest of your army, with little low AP you have hordes will be shredded, but those Termies will keep on coming. Banshees with power swords and mirror sworded exarch, being let loose onto a doomed unit will tear them apart. Give them one of the DA Serpents and they'll put your opponent in a bit of hurt.

2) I'd take bright lances over some of the missile launchers. EML will struggle with land raiders, Russes etc etc so a swap on 1 EML to hurt them out will be good. Don't swap them all to keep the points down, and the blast template mode for fire power

If you want to risk the kill points put the warwalkers into seperate sqns.Means they don't all die to one squads shooting...for instance in 3 sqns they'll have a chance of living. If they're together a single vendetta with 3 lascannons will tear them apart in one turn of shooting.

And give the Wraithlord 1 shuriken catapult, one flamer (they are free and comulsary). Since it can only fire 2 weapons a turn to make the most of the sword he can use the catapult at range if hes not shooting a tank, and the flamer to soften up a unit hes gonna charge.

[Image]

I absolutely understand that terminators will be a problem without some banshees and sufficient low-AP shooting, but against the most common terminator - seemingly T.Hammer/S.Shield - I'm not certain if Banshees are superior. Hmm... let's see.

Assuming charges:

7 Banshees, equal to my scorpion squad, and an (exarch with mirror swords)

5 attacks hitting on 3s = 3.3 hits
and 18 attacks hitting on 4s = 9 hits
12.3 hits wounding on 5s = 3.69 wounds
saving on 3s = 1.107 wounds.

So 1 dead terminators.

With guide/doom

5 attacks = 3.3 + (1.7 x .66) = 4.422 hits
18 attacks hitting on 4s = 9 + (9x.5) = 13.5 hits
17.922 hits wounding on 5s = 5.3766 + (12.55 x .3) = ~9.2
Saving on 3s = ~2.7

So, closer to 3.

The scorpions:

7 Scorpions, Exarch w/ no upgrades

5 attacks hitting on 3s = 3.3 hits
24 attacks hitting on 4s = 12 hits
15.3 hits wounding on 4s = 7.65
Saving on 2s = ~1.27

So still only 1 dead terminator, but slightly better.

With doom/guide

5 attacks hitting on 3s = 3.3 + (1.7 x .66) = 4.422 hit
24 Attacks hitting on 4s = 12 hits + (12 x .5) = 18
22.22 hits wounding on 4s = 11.11 + (11.11 x .5) = ~16.7
Saving on 2s = 2.766

As such, it's almost identical, except for when non T.Hammer/SS terminators come into the mix. Obviously then, the banshees win out without problem, but this kind of alteration deviates from my original idea of simply "more dice!" Moreover, the Scorpions are better suited to hordes, but less so against MEQ, of course. Then there's also the merits regarding their saves and mobility. As you mentioned, DrLove, it absolutely comes down to preference and I just love the look of the scorpions. Give me a few games, though, and I might come around. :P

Finding the points for Bright Lances will require some definite points shifting. I agree that it's a solid idea and likely worthwhile, I'm not certain what to drop without dipping into some of my units numbers. Honestly, I really don't want to drop the Wraithlord as winning him has really been the thrust of my initiative to even consider the eldar. It's sad, really. :(

And, regarding the "Congratulations on playing a non-imperial force!" I already feel as though a certain weight has been lifted from my shoulders, even though I haven't put model to table yet. :P I think my regular opponents will appreciate the change in scenery though. So I really want to puts th fear of Xenos in their heart! lol

Thank you for the feedback thus far and I'd love to hear what has worked for you guys with these units and maybe some sneaky tricks. All I've got so far is if going first in Dawn of War, deploying two units right on the edge and then allow Eldrad to pull them back. >.<

[eldargal]

With TH/SS terminators you should try and thin their numbers before you attack with Banshees. I tend to pair them with a squad of Fire Dragons in a WS for this purpose. Of course, if you are confident you can just Doom the terminators and Fortune your Banshee's to aid them in surviving the counteraattck. I've had amazing luck with this myself.

[Image]

Absolutely, Eldargal, I don't intend anything to function on it's own except maybe the Scorpions and even that's a stretch. The amount of fire I have to pour into those terminators would be to wither them down before hitting them with my scorpions/avatar/WL.

[Splug]

I don't believe guide works on melee to-hit rolls, just shooting. It shouldn't change the damage ratio between squads, since all it did was inflate the numbers by 50%.

Where you'll appreciate banshees most are against Blood Angels due to Sanguinary Priests. The difference between a 3+ with FNP and no save at all is going to be much more in favor of the banshees (particularly in eliminating the priest himself), or TH/SS terminators with FNP. Other Eldar armies putting fortune on units without invulnerable saves will also see a strong edge to the banshees. Additionally, banshees become more attractive against things with I6, such as genestealers. Finally, remember that banshees have fleet and scorpions do not. It is easier to get a charge off with the banshees, even through cover. The downsides are that banshees are much more reliant on doom, as well as being more fragile against shooting.

One of the best uses I've had for my scorpions are as a bunker for Eldrad. Since neither the scorpions nor Eldrad have fleet, you're not slowing the squad down like you would be attaching him to a banshee squad. Similarly, six guys with 3+ armor, 4+ cover, and rerolls from fortune are almost impossible to take down - it comes down to a flamestorm cannon, power weapons, or dark reapers to get the job done. However, I also run all-infantry, so if you're planning to just keep him in a wave serpent, that's not as big a deal.

The hardest part about playing Eldar is planning a full turn and a half ahead at all times. You have to know what your target is, and what your opponent will be targetting on his next two turns. That way, you can position your farseer in range this turn to fortune the thing that's going to get shot at next turn. That, and being sure you get saves at all... getting a 3+ rerollable save on your scorpions is great, until someone hits them with power weapons.

[Image]

Splug, just verified it, and you're absolutely right about Guide only affecting shooting. While I dabbled in Eldar a couple of years ago, I never really fielded Farseers/Eldrad so have limited familiarity with them. I appreciate you pointing out that error on my part as it better helps me plan my lists. :)

In terms of planning ahead, though, that's the kind of aspect I'm looking forward to. I feel as if I'm complacent with planning due to the relatively forgivable nature of marines. I want each maneuver to be a conscious decision with awareness of the risk/benefit analysis. I know the Eldar aren't a top performing army currently and that certain codexes will be a real challenge, but I'm hoping to elevate my game and hopping from one marine codex to the next just doesn't seem to be the way to do it.

...and don't even mention Dark Eldar as an option. :P

[karandras]

It is a well crafted list. My only suggestion would be to swap the EMLs on the Wave Serpants for Bright Lances. I would drop Bladestorm(s) and or reduce the number of Scorpions by one model in order to free up the points. Land Raider spam is pretty common these days both in Imperial and CSM armies, and the difference of Bright Lances versus EMLs is night and day against AV13+. It is well worth the points! Doubly so with no Fire Dragons in the list!

I have never been a big fan of Bladestorm as losing the ability to shoot next turn is often a net loss compared to the extra shot IMHO.

Scorpions are a good disruption unit and have enough survivability to run on their own. I would definitely give a claw to the exarch though.

Assuming Eldrad is going with one of the Avenger Squads, I would consider giving that DA Exarch a PW, Shimmershield, and Defend (not a neccessity, but can be helpful).

[Image]

Alright, here's the update, but with each unit more clearly listed as I noticed a couple of typing errors in the totals:

Torrent of Fire!!

HQ
-Eldrad
-Avatar

Total: 365

Troops
Dire Avengers x 10
w/ Exarch, Two shuriken Catapults, Bladestorm
w/ Wave Serpent, Spirit Stones, T.L. Bright Lance
Total: 297

Dire Avengers x 10
w/ Exarch, Two shuriken Catapults, Bladestorm
w/ Wave Serpent, Spirit Stones, T.L. Bright Lance
Total: 297

Dire Avengers x 10
w/ Exarch, Defend, Power Weapon/Shimmershield
w/ Wave Serpent, Spirit Stones, T.L. Shuriken Cannon
Total: 272

Troops Total: 866

Heavy Support
War walkers x 3
+Scatter laser x2 per walker
Total: 180

Heavy Support
War walkers x 3
+Scatter laser x2 per walker
Total: 180

Wraithlord - 90
+Wraithblade - 10
+Bright Lance - 40
Total: 140

Total: 500

Elites
Striking Scorpions x 6
w/ Exarch, Shadowstrike, Chainsabres
Total: 133

Striking Scorpions x 6
w/ Exarch, Shadowstrike, Chainsabres
Total: 133
Army Total: 1,997

I agree that mech would be a big problem for this list and so followed the advice of adding in a couple more bright lances - two of the three Wave Serpents are now equipped with them, where the remaining one was downgraded from EML to a Shuriken Cannon. I had to lose a couple of Striking Scorpions to do so and that cuts into my MORE DICE! approach. But the Chainsabres should assist a little bit in maintaining overall effectiveness.

I significantly altered one of of the DA squads, removing bladestorm, but adding in a Shimmershield and Defend. Clearly, this will be made Eldrad's home. Personally, I really like the idea of Bladestorm because it adds a level of destructiveness coupled with a "let's gtfo!" that I find fitting in the Eldar army.

In objective based missions, I have three scoring units and several mobile contesting units. In Kill Points, I'll need to be particularly careful with my deployment, but I wouldn't be interested in the Eldar if a careful attitude wasn't necessary. :)

Further thoughts? C&C?

Thank you so much for all help thus far! :D

[Splug]

Bladestorm is amazingly effective as long as that squad's transport remains functional. Disembark and bladestorm, and then re-embark and move on the turn you couldn't shoot anyway. You end up not sacrificing any firepower, as you want keep your troops mobile and protected anyway. It starts to get harder to gauge when your transport is destroyed, as you have to consider whether there will be a target to shoot at next turn or not - with an 18" shot, there usually is unless you expect to take a charge.

[scadugenga]

Alright, here's the update, but with each unit more clearly listed as I noticed a couple of typing errors in the totals:

Torrent of Fire!!

HQ
-Eldrad
-Avatar

Total: 365

Elites
Striking Scorpions x 6
w/ Exarch, Shadowstrike, Chainsabres
Total: 133

Striking Scorpions x 6
w/ Exarch, Shadowstrike, Chainsabres
Total: 133
Army Total: 1,997



Hi,

Just going to touch on the quoted parts.

1) Eldrad/Avatar. Why? I know it's the internet choice award winner, but it's not necessary.

Particularly as the Avatar has no one to really provide the fearless ability to. Your army is mech (who will be moving about the board @ 12" or more a turn) except for the scorpions (who will be infiltrating and out of range) given your exarch loadout. As it stands, you've made him (and the wraithlord) a huge target for all your opponents ap3/2 weaponry.

And Eldrad--is he going to go in a Avenger squad? If so, then you're leaving the WL with a 1 in 6 chance of doing nothing, as you've no other warlocks/farseers in your army. Not a good thing when that happens in the middle of a combat...

2) Scorpion exarchs with chainsabres is really not worth it. Sure you get to reroll both SP and cc attacks/wounds, but it's still only Str3. It doesn't benefit from the scorpion chainsword rule like the Biting blade does. the claw gives you a powerfist and decent anti-mech ability. The Biting blade is better against armor, but still saves as normal. Both are better choices than the chainsabres. I've tried all three loadouts for the exarch, and the chainsabres have failed me every time. Just not worth it, unless you're fighting guard/termagants or other T3 low/no save models.


To touch a bit on the Wraithlord--yes, as one poster suggested, you do have the option to shoot 2 weapons, and you can take a shuriken catapult. However, the Cat only has a 12" range, and the flamer has (I believe) a template that is 8" long, and hits anything touched automatically. Personally, I've found the flamer to be the better choice--particularly when setting up to charge the unit you just double flamed.

G'luck. And remember you have a lot more unit choices that do good work in the eldar codex than repeating the same ones over and over. Experiment and find out what works for you.

[karandras]

Like the list. Like the changes on the weapon loadouts. Like the Scorpions.

Don't like the Chainsabres.

Scorpions really do need the Claw in order to face off with MEQ, which is the majority of armies.

Eldar are the bestest! Good luck!

[Image]

Scad, I've been contemplating whether or not Yriel would be a better match up in this over the Avatar and I'm not certain yet. As I mentioned, the Avatar provides a touch of anti-tank that I'm lacking overall in the list. As well, as my CC units are likely back-field, my DA units are going rather unsupported were they to be assaulted. I find the Avatar provides a threat bubble for CC and anti-tank. Certainly, he'll attract fire as will the Wraithlord, but they are meant to be a tempting unit to shoot. Maneuvering my shooty units into a more opportunistic position is the ideal and any anti-tank shooting not going on the wave serpents further guarantees they'll be able to accomplish that goal.

The MCs against anti-tank are no slouches either. Hopefully, I'll be able to keep both near cover or, in a pinch, push the Avatar in front of the WL for concern of krak missiles and lascannons. I'm likely being naive, but I'm not too concerned with their survivability. If I can get the WL cover, it'll take 18 missiles from MEQ to take him down. (18 shots, 12 hits, 6 wounds, 3 saves).

As well, you have to bear in mind that I come from Marines with ATSKNF. I'm not going to be accustomed to my models simply running off the board. The avatar can help minimize that by automatically rallying any model fleeing within 12" of him. I think that strength on him is also worthwhile, even if a rare circumstance to come up.

The WL I kept with two flamers. I agree that in an assault, with so few attacks, maximizing the damage before going in will help tremendously. Against hordes, this will be even stronger. Though I'm risking the problems with wraithsight, I think it's a risk I'll just have to accept a lot of the times. While I'll try to minimize it, I can only do so much with it on the first couple of turns.

Chainsabres? Huh. I didn't realize they wouldn't be str4. I'll probably drop them in that case which frees up about 10 points. Without many options available for 13 points, I'll likely give each Scorpion unit Move Through Cover by the Stalker special rule. This will help insure they assault units in cover on the turn they arrive. Does that seem like an appropriate exchange?

[scadugenga]

Scad, I've been contemplating whether or not Yriel would be a better match up in this over the Avatar and I'm not certain yet. As I mentioned, the Avatar provides a touch of anti-tank that I'm lacking overall in the list. As well, as my CC units are likely back-field, my DA units are going rather unsupported were they to be assaulted. I find the Avatar provides a threat bubble for CC and anti-tank. Certainly, he'll attract fire as will the Wraithlord, but they are meant to be a tempting unit to shoot. Maneuvering my shooty units into a more opportunistic position is the ideal and any anti-tank shooting not going on the wave serpents further guarantees they'll be able to accomplish that goal.

The MCs against anti-tank are no slouches either. Hopefully, I'll be able to keep both near cover or, in a pinch, push the Avatar in front of the WL for concern of krak missiles and lascannons. I'm likely being naive, but I'm not too concerned with their survivability. If I can get the WL cover, it'll take 18 missiles from MEQ to take him down. (18 shots, 12 hits, 6 wounds, 3 saves).

As well, you have to bear in mind that I come from Marines with ATSKNF. I'm not going to be accustomed to my models simply running off the board. The avatar can help minimize that by automatically rallying any model fleeing within 12" of him. I think that strength on him is also worthwhile, even if a rare circumstance to come up.

The WL I kept with two flamers. I agree that in an assault, with so few attacks, maximizing the damage before going in will help tremendously. Against hordes, this will be even stronger. Though I'm risking the problems with wraithsight, I think it's a risk I'll just have to accept a lot of the times. While I'll try to minimize it, I can only do so much with it on the first couple of turns.

Chainsabres? Huh. I didn't realize they wouldn't be str4. I'll probably drop them in that case which frees up about 10 points. Without many options available for 13 points, I'll likely give each Scorpion unit Move Through Cover by the Stalker special rule. This will help insure they assault units in cover on the turn they arrive. Does that seem like an appropriate exchange?

Image,

Yriel would at least be able to hide within a squad for more survivability. My biggest concern as an eldar player is making sure my units work well together and support each other. An Avatar with only a WL for support is pretty risky. It's not even the LC/plasma/krak you'll have to worry about so much, as it is the sniper/poisoned attacks. Against swarm armies (Nids) or TH/SS Terms you'll run into big problems.

Personally, you could drop the avatar and eldrad, and either run dual farseers, or farseer/autarch, or more to your theme, farseer/karandras and you'll find yourself in a good place as well.

Karandras has a Str 8 powerfist and 7 attacks on the charge. That should easily put paid to anything short of a landraider if you're looking for anti vehicle.

Yeah, chainsabres were a huge disappointment for me. I liked the idea a lot. The execution of the idea? Not so much.

[Image]

Wanted to give you guys a heads up on the progress of this list. Had my first game today against a good friend of mine playing Tau. Kill points/Spearhead deployment. I won the game 12-5.

The Avatar soaked up an exorbitant amount of firepower. Granted, he died turn 2, but that was without fortune on him either turn because I was a noob and didn't pay attention to the short range on fortune. Had it been applied to him, I think he would've made it a much more decisive victory.

The Striking Scorpions each earned and gave up a kill point. In terms of victory points, they did not nearly make their points back, but this had a lot to do with the fact that my opponent had a strong deployment and kept away from the table edges. The pressure they provided by flanking my opponent's unit was helpful though, as it provided my DA units to be a bit more brave. :)

The War walkers were amazing. I think that's all I need to say about that.

The Wraithlord is just so tough that once my war walkers destroyed his hammerhead, he was able to rush forward to mop up in the final turns.

Of course, Eldrad did excellently. :)

But I wanted to express my thanks for your help, guys! This list is a challenge to play not only because of its limitations against tanks (only killed 2 out of 6 of his skimmers), but also because the Eldar codex is so for foreign to me. I swear, one of these days I'll be able to remember the stats on a Scatter Laser, Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Catapult, etc. :P Nonetheless, it was a blast to play! Who knew Xenos vs. Xenos fights happened in 40k?!