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40kGamer
08-20-2009, 03:55 PM
I recently signed up for my first 40k tournament and am trying to come up with a flavorful Space Marine list.

Here's what I'm thinking,

HQ
Captain on Bike, (Relic Weapon or Thunder Hammer) Melta Bombs(MB) 170
Command Squad on Bikes, Company Standard, Champion, 2xFlamers 245

ELITE
Dread with Assault Cannon and Heavy Flamer 125

TROOPS
Bike Sqd with 8 bikes and 1 Attack Bike w HB, SGt w PF & MB, 2xMeltas 305
10 man Tac Sqd, Flamer and Missle Launcher, Sgt has PW 185
10 man Tac Sqd, Flamer and Plasma Cannon, Sgt has PW 190
10 man Tac Sqd, Meltagun and Multimelta, Sgt has PF 200
5 Scouts with Heavy Bolter, Sgt has Combi-Flamer 95

FAST
10 Assault Marines, 1 with Flamer, Sgt has Lightning Claws and MB 235


Total PV 1750, Total Models 61, Max Scoring Units 9, Max Game Units 13, Kill Points 9

Is there enough anti-mech in the list? I'm guessing most people will show up with Marines or Chaos Marines from what I've heard. I have ~5,000 points fully painted and another 5,000 points assembled with 1 month until show time so I could pretty much fit anything into the list.

Some options I've considered:
I have considered fitting a 10 man unit of Sternguard into the list and dropping some Troops. Also thought about working either a Chaplain with a Jump Pack or a Librarian into the list. I also considered adding a second complete bike squad to the troops to up my mobility.

Any advice for a tournament newbie would be much appreciated! :-)

Chumbalaya
08-20-2009, 11:16 PM
You don't have enough anti-tank. 1 melta and multi-melta in 1 unit (can't fire the MM on the move), bikes, and melta bombs smattered about won't cut it.

You don't have enough armor. 1 Dread is not lasting past turn 1.

You don't have any real CC threats. Assault Marines don't scare real assault troops, Tactical Squads don't win combats against good units, and the Command Squad is only relying on the Captain to do real damage.

It's not that great really. A strong tourney army needs to be able to handle multiple powerful builds and accomplish mission objectives. What will you do against air cav guard (masses of AV12 flyers with dudes and lots of guns), AV14 spam, foot hordes (not powerful per se, but you had better be able to stop it), and so on.

Tactical Squads should always be mounted, Rhinos are dirt cheap and not only allow them to actually threaten units (flamers and meltas need to be close) but also avoid getting bogged down in assaults and cap objectives. I like flamers and multi-meltas for the free-ness, with a combi-melta thrown in just in case. You don't need more than 2.

The real damage comes from units like Terminators, Sternguard, Land Raiders, and Command Squads. TH/SS Termies in Land Raiders will beat face on nearly anything and can take all kinds of punishment. Sternguard in Pods will drop in, murder whole units, and with a teleporting Librarian or more Pods coming in they can hit the enemy all over. A tricked out Biker Command Squad (storm shields, lightning claws, meltas on everyone) will make Nob Bikers cry.

You need melta to handle heavy armor, also weapons like autocannons to knock out light AV at range and hit up infantry or MCs to torrent them down (forcing lots of saves). Since marines have very little long range weapons to bust AV14, you need to be up close, by either podding or using vehicles.

You need to handle units like Nob Bikers and Seer Councils, either with your own super units (TH/SS Termies, Command Squads) or lots of firepower (Predators, TLAC Dreads, etc).

Pick a focus for your army (mech dakka, mech choppy, bikes, pods, etc) and build around that.

40kGamer
08-21-2009, 07:58 AM
That's what I was afraid of. I've only played a few friendly games against non-tournament gamers and I was thinking that I will probably get my lunch handed to me with my first outing! :-)

While it would be good experience I would still like to give the vateran gamers a run for their money!

I already have painted:

1 LR Crusader
10 Assault termies (5 TH/SS, 5 LC)
and my favorite conversion to date - a captain in Terminator armour with 2 Thunder Hammers - Not practical but it looks good! :-)
plus 2 - 10 man devestator squads with multiple Heavy weapon options.


I always worry about not having enough troops to grab objectives. But I guess denying objectives to the enemy is just as good!

Thanks for the advice - I'll go back to the drawing board and see what I can fit into the list!

I do know that 20% of the folks will be bringing orks. 60% will have SM or CSM and the other 20% will be something else! I dread meeting up against a good Eldar player. Those pointy ears are so darn fast!

Jeremy

Chumbalaya
08-21-2009, 08:30 AM
A Crusader and TH/SS Terminators is a nasty prospect for anybody, a huge pain to kill and capable of bringing the pain.

Generally, 2-3 Troops is enough for marines (2 Tacs, 1 camo cloaked Scout unit sitting on your home base). They're cheap and fairly good, so that leaves you more points to spend on killy stuff and you have combat squads if you need more scoring units. Spamming Troops isn't always the best way because winning an objective mission isn't about holding every objective, just 1 more than your opponent. Troops typically aren't very good themselves, so if you bring more heavy hitters you'll have a much easier time mooshing their army.

Good luck in the tourney and please post up an updated list if you can.

Jeremy too

40kGamer
08-21-2009, 09:26 AM
LOL! Jeremy Too! There aren't that many guys with our name! :)

Is a captain in terminator armour with 2xthuder hammers worth 175 points? I love the model but I'm afraid he'll get whacked before he can make those nasty I 1 attacks! Have you run a Chaplain in the 5th Ed? It seems like the reroll misses the turn you charge would be nasty!

I'm shooting for a perfect score on army appearance so I'll be pretty busy painting new models. Plus I have to get the list set so that I can finish up an army display board! (On a whim I did Howling Griffons and the quartered Red/Yellow is killing my speed! I'd class myself a power painter and a wannabe gamer! :D

I'll see what I can put together over the weekend and put a new list up Monday.

Thanks!

Jeremy

40kGamer
08-26-2009, 08:36 AM
UPDATED 1750 LIST

HQ
Captain on Bike (Run as Khan) (205)
HQ Sqd on Bikes, Co Std w LCl, CoChamp,1xLClw MG & SSh,1x ThH MG & SSh (345)
Librarian on Bike (135)

ELITE
Dread – Assault Cannon, CCW+HF (125)
Dread – TL Heavy Flamer, CCW+HF (115)
IronClad – Chfist+Melta, CCW+HF (145)
3 x Drop Pods for Dreads (105)

TROOPS
8+1 Bikes Sgt w PW, 2xMG, AttBike w HB (290)
8+1 Bikes 2xMG, Attack Bike w MM (300)

1750 Points, 31 Models, (25 Bikes!) 4 Scoring Units, 11 KPs

I'm thinking that this may be a fun tourney list. Lots of speed and flexibility but seriously lacking in numbers! I would definitely have to avoid any attrition! :-)

The Dreads would drop directly into enemy lines and try to light up the most dangerous units while distracting fire from my bike posse. The bikes would either outflank or load on one flank to concentrate fire on the enemy. This would (hopefully) allow them to avoid concentrated return fire.

I played my 2nd game against Orks last night and it was the fiirst time I'd come up on Nob bikers. The command squad kit worked like a charm! Lightning claws plus Khan's Furious Charge bonus for the squad was a thing of beauty. :-) Without the HQ his bikers would have cleaned my basic troops off the board!

mkerr
08-26-2009, 11:53 AM
Bikes are a tough place to start for a new player. It takes a while before you get the hang of them, so don't get frustrated if you get spanked a few times.

Since it sounds like you enjoy converting and painting, I recommend that you follow your interests. It's really tough to go wrong with the new Space Marine codex -- there are a lot fewer crappy units than there used to be.

Think about how you want to use the army and make sure that the units you pick support each other. The Drop Pods really support the bikes (you can bring them where you need them), but you are really relying on getting those reserve rolls. I wouldn't recommend splitting up your bikes and dreads to focus on different parts of your opponent's army -- you want to focus your 1750pts on 1000pts of his army and crush it. Then you can apply your remaining 1500pt army against the 500pts that are left.

1. I also think that you are spending a bit too much on your HQ selections (635 of your 1750pts), so you might want to scale back on your command squad until you get to 2000pts.

2. I prefer Multi-meltas on my Attack Bikes because they are a lot more versatile than Heavy Bolters, but your neck of the woods might be different (we have lots of heavy armor here).

Best of luck and I hope you have a great time!

-- mkerr

40kGamer
08-26-2009, 04:10 PM
Thanks Mkerr!

I'm not normally an agressive player but I love the look of the bikes. You are quite right about them being hard to use. I've ran them a couple of times and never know exactly what to do with them! I either get too close and have to assault or I stay back, don't get many shots and take a pounding from the guns! Plus it became painfully obvious that bikes in general aren't good in an assault. ;)

Maybe I'll mix in a few other squads for my first outing. I don't mind a good spanking but I'd like to be more competetive than a speed bump! :D

Jeremy

mkerr
08-26-2009, 05:33 PM
One of my first armies was Ravenwing and it took be forever to figure out how to stay in short range (but not assault range) zone. I definitely feel your pain.

I was actually looking at Scout Bikes recently. I think those Astartes Grenade Launchers are pretty sweet (rapid-firing S6 AP4 guns? ouch) and you really can't complain about Infiltrate and Scouts on a fast unit.

I doubt if I'll ever put together a unit of them, but they look fun.

-- mkerr

Dwarflord17404
08-27-2009, 07:49 AM
I think you have the elments to run a "dual wing armylist" ?

I think you need a squad of th/ss termies to tip the assult your way. Also if you are running Khan I would try to squeeze a tact squad in there as well. I have found regardless of the army less than 4 scoring units is playing for a draw.

GreenMarines
08-27-2009, 08:59 AM
I would try to save some points in HQ-choice and get a unit or 5 th/ss termies (200 points).
As the army is designed you will be near the enemy very fast and one unit of termies would support this very well. They can take quite a lot of fire and so you can enjoy the other units much longer.

What's about MM on your 2nd Dread? You could drop the Ironclad and MM-Dread in round 1 and could kill one or two heavy vehicle which will give your dreads some cover afterwards.