PDA

View Full Version : 1500 Nids Old School



Tarrandus
10-03-2010, 12:38 AM
Hey guys. Back in Januray I took a break from my nids due to the new codex "ruining" my army (or at least my 115 point fexes T_T). Now I'm coming back to taking these buggers off the shelf and back onto the board (hopefull my Mechdar won't mind sharing the playtime.:D)

Here's the catch though; I don't have any of the new shiny models, and I don't plan on plunking down the cash to make my already 2000 point army more playable. So all I've got to work with are mostly old units.

I've been able to do some simple conversions to make my fexes stand in for tervigons, and had a handy Mycetic spore model (http://www.battlemart.com/store/images/uploads/sotm009.jpg), but that's about it.

So, is a Tyranid list without Trygons, Hive guard, or Gargoyles able to hold its own against the new toys?

With this army I'm aiming for an all-comers list that can do well in a fairly competitive metagame at 1500 points.

-----------------------------
1500 Points
2 HQ, 2 Elite, 6 Troops

I've organized the list by tactical purpose rather than by force org, since we all know what's what.

The basic strategy is a reserve heavy attack. A central core of 2 MCs and gaunts runs up the center, while most of the killing power comes from outflank and DS. The two roughly equal halves are:

Spearhead:
Hive Tyrant; Stranglethorn Cannon, Lash Whip and Boneswords, Hive Commander, Paroxysm, Leech Life 215
Tervigon; Cluster Spines, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, Onslaught 195
Tyranids Warriors x4; Venom Cannon, Deathspitters 150
Termagaunts x26; 130
Hormagaunts x16; 96

I haven't played much with Tervigons, but on paper would seem that the termagaunts are the main threat here. With Furious Charge, 4+ poison, and potentially fighting a WS 1 opponent, a mob of them could do some serious damage. I went with Onslaught over Catalyst on the Tervigon for more speed rather than more survivability. He's and HQ since I ended up not being able to squeeze him into a troop slot. I wasn't sure of the importance of him scoring, so if I need to I can probably make him a troop. The Hormies are mainly cheap fast distraction. I have the models, so I'd rather field them than buy more termagaunts. The Tyrant and the warriors are to give some support fire and give the spearhead more presence.

I'm not sure if the tyrant fits this army build. With decent shooting and assault capabilities he can do a lot, but I feel his purpose may be better served by a Tyranid Prime and more warriors handling the suppport fire role. I'd lose the +1 to reserves, but I don't feel that is a huge deal. Alternatively, I could rekit the Tyrant and change the warriors for Tyrant Guard to refocus the rather meager support fire into more CC badassery.

Flanks:
Zoanthrope x3 180
.....- Mycetic Spore; Cluster Spines 50
Deathleaper; 140
Genestealers x5; Adrenal Glands, Broodlord 131
Genestealers x6; Toxin Sacs 102
Genestealers x6; Toxin Sacs 102

The fast killing power of the army lies in the flanking half. I've read that the thrope configuration works well, and without Hive Gaurd or Sniperfexes (Poor sniperfexes ._.) they are the easiest source of shooting anti-tank. 3 Pretty much min Genestealer squads have worked well for my in the past, and they are even better in this codex, so why not. I've only got 16 stealers to work with, so I can't make them larger squads. Is the broodlord worth it at all? The Deathleaper I just added in because I could. I have absolutely no experience with this character, so if some wiser minds could let me know whether he would work in this sort of army that would be great.

So there it is. I don't feel I have a very good grasp of 5th ED nid army construction, so any help is appreciated. :)

My list without the breaks for ranting:
Hive Tyrant; Stranglethorn Cannon, Lash Whip and Boneswords, Hive Commander, Paroxysm, Leech Life 215

Tervigon; Cluster Spines, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, Onslaught 195

Tyranids Warriors x4; Venom Cannon, Deathspitters 150
Termagaunts x26; 130
Hormagaunts x16; 96
Zoanthrope x3 180
.....- Mycetic Spore; Cluster Spines 50
Deathleaper; 140
Genestealers x5; Adrenal Glands, Broodlord 131
Genestealers x6; Toxin Sacs 102
Genestealers x6; Toxin Sacs 102
Total: 1491


List of my models:
1 Hive Tyrant
2 Carnifex/Tervigon
1 Broodlord
16 Genestealers
26 Termagaunts
16 Hormagaunts
6 Warriors
3 Zoanthropes
3 Shrikes
1 Mycetic Spore

Nungunz
10-03-2010, 01:41 AM
Hey there, dude, glad to see you're comming back to nids. Sorry to be the guy to bring some bad news to the floor, but I don't think this army will preform well at all.

In 5th Edition even Tyranids rely a ton on shooting. Though we have to in order to bust open transports. Most of our troops are amazing at beating up infantry, but we have trouble against vehicles. Without a lot of hive guard, zoanthropes, harpies, tyrannofexs and the like, you'll be fighting an uphill battle.

On another point you're army doesn't mesh that well together and will end up hitting the opponent in waves. With half of the army in reserves and no reliable way to ensure they come on ASAP (IE Hive Commander upgrade) your core on the field will get chewed to pieces before back-up shows up.

Of those on the field already the hormagaunts will rush ahead and you'll end up with them unsupported by the rest of your group. Essentially you have three waves:

1) Hormagaunts
2) Termagants, Warriors, Tervigon
3) Deathleaper, Genestealers, Zoans

It's very easy to prioritize targets. The Tervigon (especially since he is the only MC you have) and warriors will easily get blown to pieces by heavy weapons, and the hormas will take all the initial anti-troop fire before anything else shows up.

Either go all reserves or go none at all (barring maybe a single zoan group in a pod).

More than any other army, the Tyranids need darn near perfect synergy to do well and should ideally provide multiple key threats to an enemy and be able to hit at about the same time (or sit back and shell the heck out of the opponent if you go that route).

Now for more specifics.



(HQ) Tervigon; Cluster Spines, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, Onslaught 195

I love Tervigons, usually run 1 or 2 at 1500 points myself. Problem is as your only MC, it will get taken to pieces quickly. Onslaught really isn't needed in your list, catalyst would be better by miles (and I suggest always taking it, keeps the swarms alive).

Personally I've never been in a situation where the Tervigon has been close enough to the termagants to give them the Adrenals or Toxins. If this is your strategy you need at least 2-3 tervigons and several large broods of termagants on the field (backed-up by a ton of shooting).

I'd find the points for another MC (probably shooty tyrant with devourers and Hive Commander + single guard) and bump this one to a troop choice.




Love warriors as well, unfortunately they don't have a place in my lists :(

Anywho, be careful with these, they'll give you a nice firebase that can possibly hurt light vehicles as well, but they are very, very vulnerable to S8 and above (Long-Fangs, Vendettas, and power claws/fists eat them as a snack).

[quote]Termagaunts x26; 130

Can work, though I'd like to see another Tervigon and at least 1 more brood of these (maybe 20-25 strong) in order to work well.


Hormagaunts x16; 96

Need at least 20 models (probably 25-30 in your list as you have no other fast troops or any way to make them more survivable). Always give them Toxin Sacs.


Zoanthrope x3 180
.....- Mycetic Spore; Cluster Spines 50

Can work. I know you don't want to spend the cash, but at 1500 you really need more shooting. 4-6 Hive Guard in addition to these would do wonders for you.


Deathleaper; 140

Works very well. This is about the only tyranid unit that works in any army build. Only problem is that he competes for the same slot as zoans and hive guard.


Genestealers x5; Adrenal Glands, Broodlord 131
Genestealers x6; Toxin Sacs 102
Genestealers x6; Toxin Sacs 102

They are good, but very, very squishy. I'd try to run in broods of 8-10. Don't need adrenal at all, but toxin is nice. Broodlords can work very well.


Overall needs more army-wide synergy and needs more shooting. I just see this list being picked apart wave-by-wave in a fairly competitive setting that you described.

Tarrandus
10-03-2010, 09:51 AM
Thanks for the advice. You seem to have missed my Hive tyrant though ^^; He add another MC, Hive Commander, and a widdle bit more shooting. I don't think he fixes my problems you described though.

I understand the need for shooting in a nids army. I just don't know where to get it. :(

In my 4th Edition army, Fexes, Tyrants, and warriors could provide all my shooting needs, and I took more of them. In the 5th ed book though, all thier shooting abilities have been downgraded. Heck, even gaunts are worse at shooting since they lost Living Amuntion. Fexes lost thier S8 Barbed Strangler, The warriors Deathspitter used to be a S6 blast, and the Flying Dakka Tyrant now costs way more and can't get 2+/6++.

So where do current tyranids get most of their shooting?



About the fragmented army, I can see what you're saying, so I guess some changes are in order. I can't sit down with my dex right now but maybe later I can make some revisions.

Nungunz
10-03-2010, 10:54 AM
Thanks for the advice. You seem to have missed my Hive tyrant though ^^; He add another MC, Hive Commander, and a widdle bit more shooting. I don't think he fixes my problems you described though.

Whoop, my bad. May him on foot with a Heavy Venom Cannon, a set of Twin-Linked Devourers, Hive Commander, and a Tyrant Guard. Expensive as all heck, but unfortunately that's what we have to deal with now. :(


I understand the need for shooting in a nids army. I just don't know where to get it. :(

In my 4th Edition army, Fexes, Tyrants, and warriors could provide all my shooting needs, and I took more of them. In the 5th ed book though, all thier shooting abilities have been downgraded. Heck, even gaunts are worse at shooting since they lost Living Amuntion. Fexes lost thier S8 Barbed Strangler, The warriors Deathspitter used to be a S6 blast, and the Flying Dakka Tyrant now costs way more and can't get 2+/6++.

Yeah, not a fun thing anymore with that. On the plus side we got a whole lot of cool stuff and the little critters are cheap as all heck. Compared to the rest of the codex I think that the MCs are actually decently priced (except for the carnifex and Tryant, I"l like to see them about 15-20 points less than they are now).


So where do current tyranids get most of their shooting?

Zoans are good against heavy armor, but have limited range and require both the psychic test and the roll to hit. Light armor is what our shooting has to deal with (raiders, chimeras, razorbacks/rhinos, devilfish, wave serpents, etc).

Once the squishy stuff is on foot we can easily tear them apart in assault. So we're looking for things that have high strength shoots with a decent bit of range and have (if possible) some accuracy or a decent amount of shots. Leaves us with the following:

Zoanthropes (need spore to get them close)
Hive Guard (amazing at killing AV12 or lower and can inst-kill most troops)
DakkaTyrants(x2 Devourers or Devourers/HVC)
DakkaFexes (x2 Devourers, maybe a spore)
Tyrannofexes (Rupture Cannon)
Harpies (Twin-Linked HVC and very, very fast)
Warriors can do a mediocre job at it (VC and Deathspitters)

Like I said, don't have to worry so much about shooting at troops. It's the transports we have to kill at range to take away their protection (why waste our time assaulting vehicles when we are so much better at killing the squishy stuff inside) and stops them from running away as fast (chasing 4-8 rhinos or chimeras across the battlefield sucks.....even worse if it's waveserpents).



About the fragmented army, I can see what you're saying, so I guess some changes are in order. I can't sit down with my dex right now but maybe later I can make some revisions.


If you need some pointers let me know. You don't need a tournament army to have a great list with tyranids. I certainly don't, but I win a lot of games and the army is tons of fun (though movement phases are looooooooooong).

My 1500 has a slight problem with waves as well, but I do have at least 55 small critters and 2 MCs (shooty flyrant and a Trygon Prime) hitting as one solid line usually by turn 2 supported by 6 Hive Guard (3 groups of 2) and a Tervigon(Cluster Spines, Catalyst).

Personally my list isn't optimized that much either, but I can get close enough fast enough that I'd only get 1-2 rounds of shooting in anyway.

Tarrandus
10-04-2010, 12:07 PM
Alright, here's another go:

2 HQ, 1 Elite, 5 Troops,1 FA, 1 HS; 47 Models

Hive Tyrant; Old Adversary/Hive Commander, Tl Devourers, HVC, Leech Essence, Paroxysm 235
Tyranid Prime; Boneswords 90

Zoanthropes x2 120
Mycetic Spore 40

Gaunts x20 100
Tervigon; Adrenal, Toxin, Catalyst 195
Genestealers x6; Toxin 102
Genestealers x6; Toxin 102
Warriors x5; VC 165

Shrikes x3; Boneswords, AG 150

Carnifex; TL Devs, HVC 200
Total: 1499

Dropped:
Stealer Squad +Broodlord
Deathleaper
Hormagaunts
6x Gaunts
1x Zoanthrope

Added:
Carnifex w/ HVC
1x Warrior and Tyranid Prime
3x Shrikes

Basically I dropped some of the flankers to beef up my main force. The fex is about 50 points too much, but he's the only other model I have on teh list o' shootyness. I wasn't sure about losing the Thrope, so I might re-arrage and add him back in if 2 isn't enough. I though Old Adversary on the Tyrant might be worth a look, but I've still got 3 reserve units so I'm not sure. I'll probably will go w/ Hive commander.

Beefing up my warrior squad and adding the prime turns it into more of a viable threat, and unlike the hormagaunts it won't outpace the rest of my models. I think the prime is a good investment since he makes the whole squad better at shooting, CC, and he can take the odd crack missle with his T5. A russ template will still suck though.

I dropped the deahtleaper for the shrikes. Probably not the best move, but it gives me a fast moving unit I can keep in the back untill I need to bust something out of CC or a nice target becomes avaliable. I haven't really played much with them but I bothered to do the conversion, so I'll use them.

PaperclipBadger
03-05-2012, 03:47 PM
It'll be great to find a use for all the old-school assembled models I have gathering dust...

trygonprime
03-06-2012, 12:08 AM
I posted a list based of the same concept. I have yet to try it but i look forward to hearing how you do.