Latest list - 2000 Space Marines (vanilla) Please critique

[wiles01]

2000 Pts - Space Marines Roster

HQ: Captain - (133pts)
Relic Weapon, Storm bolter
Riding with Sternguard

Tac Squad (10) - (235pts)
Sergeant with powerfist, Melta, Multimelta, 7 bolters
Rhino

Tac Squad (10) - (235pts)
Sergeant with powerfist, Melta, Missile Launcher, 7 bolters
Rhino

Sniper Scout Squad (5) - (85)
4 sniper rifles, 1 missile launcher

Terminator Squad (6) - (545pts)
1 power weapon, 3 power fist, 2 chain fist, 4 storm bolters, 1 assault cannon
Land Raider - Extra Armor

Sternguard Squad (9) - 300pts)
Sergeant with powerfist / combi-melta, 2 meltas, 6 bolters
Rhino (Captain riding along)

Dreadnought - (165pts)
Assault Cannon / CCW / Storm bolter - Extra Armor
Drop Pod

Predator - Destructor - (100pts)
Auto Cannon / 2 Hvy bolter sponsons - Extra Armor

Predator - Destructor - (100pts)
Auto Cannon / 2 Hvy bolter sponsons - Extra Armor

Predator - Destructor - (100pts)
Auto Cannon / 2 Hvy bolter sponsons - Extra Armor


Total Cost: 1998


General all commers list, trying to have lots of mobility and mobile firepower. Hoping all the extra tanks will negate the need to have extra armor on the rhinos.

Trying to decide what would work better, what opponents like seeing less.

Land Raider with 6 terminators cruising towards them or 10 terminators walking towards them?

[Chexmix282]

HQ: Captain - (133pts)
Relic Weapon, Storm bolter
Riding with Sternguard

Interesting choice. I think that a Librarian with Null Zone would be of much greater benefit to your army though, and make your Terminators much more killy.

Tac Squad (10) - (235pts)
Sergeant with powerfist, Melta, Multimelta, 7 bolters
Rhino

Tac Squad (10) - (235pts)
Sergeant with powerfist, Melta, Missile Launcher, 7 bolters
Rhino

Not bad, although the Powerfists might be unnecessary.

Sniper Scout Squad (5) - (85)
4 sniper rifles, 1 missile launcher

Neat. I would consider Camo Cloaks, but that's personal opinion.

Terminator Squad (6) - (545pts)
1 power weapon, 3 power fist, 2 chain fist, 4 storm bolters, 1 assault cannon
Land Raider - Extra Armor

Why not TH/SS Terminators? They are much more survivable in CC than Tactical Terminators, and its not like you're going to shoot their overpriced Assault Cannon very often from their Land Raider. I would change them to TH/SS Termies, and add a Multi-Melta to the Land Raider.

Sternguard Squad (9) - 300pts)
Sergeant with powerfist / combi-melta, 2 meltas, 6 bolters
Rhino (Captain riding along)

Whoa, that is one expensive power-armored squad, with no real focus or duality. I would change the squad to this, for increased effectiveness:

5 Sternguard 195
-2 Heavy Flamers, 3 Combi-Meltas, Rhino

This unit brings all sorts of support to the table, and will threaten nearly anything your opponent has, but is not a huge points sink and the loss of it won't disrupt your army nearly as much.

Dreadnought - (165pts)
Assault Cannon / CCW / Storm bolter - Extra Armor
Drop Pod

Why no a Multi-Melta? If he's in a Drop Pod, might as well give him a weapon that benefits from being close and is very powerful. In all honesty i see this bloke as being more of a liability, as he'll come down, maybe kill something, then die to return fire as he is unsupported by the rest of your army. I would suggest exchanging him with one of the above-mentioned Sternguard squads.

Predator - Destructor - (100pts)
Auto Cannon / 2 Hvy bolter sponsons - Extra Armor

Predator - Destructor - (100pts)
Auto Cannon / 2 Hvy bolter sponsons - Extra Armor

Predator - Destructor - (100pts)
Auto Cannon / 2 Hvy bolter sponsons - Extra Armor

Dakka Preds are good, but why the extra armor? If it would let them shoot every turn i would take it, but otherwise i would leave it at home.

If you take my suggestions, you would save somewhere around 200 points... enough for 3 MM/HF Speeders, some Attack Bikes, or maybe some Typhoons.

The list would look something like this:

Librarian 100
-Null Zone, Something Else

2 x 5 Sternguard 390
-2 Heavy Flamers, 3 Combi-Meltas, Rhino

6 Assault Terminators 515
-TH/SS
-Land Raider w/ Extra Armor, Multi-Melta

2 x Tactical Squad 470
-Melta, Multi-Melta, Powerfist, Rhino

3 x 1 Land Speeder Typhoons 270

3 x Predator 255
-Heavy Bolters

2k on the nose. This second list has a much greater killing potential than the first, and i tried to keep the units as similar as possible (although that lone dreadnought had to go, i'm sorry ;) ). With the points saved 3 Typhoons were added, giving the list much more supporting fire and much less points-sinks.

Hope that helps, and happy gaming!

[Mal]

To be fair, if your giving your tac sarg a fist, give him a boltgun rather then a bolt pistol... this way he can contribute to the squads killyness at range. after all its not like hes going to get a bonus attack for that pistol.

[wiles01]

Thanks for the comments


Interesting choice. I think that a Librarian with Null Zone would be of much greater benefit to your army though, and make your Terminators much more killy.

I've been thinking of making a Librarian. I've had that suggested a bit. Have some new terminator models on the way and maybe convert a standard marine into one at some point.


Not bad, although the Powerfists might be unnecessary.

I originally had them with power weapons and storm bolters, but ended up with this loadout after several people mentioned since I was losing the extra CC attack anyway just stick a plain power fist on them so they would be a threat to vehicles and large solo creatures. And they also said the storm bolters were too expensive for a sergeant so just leave them with a pistol or bolter.

I left him with a pistol so that if the squad decided to get into CC he could still get a shot off and not worry about not assaulting. As opposed to not firing his bolter at all if the squad was getting into CC. It is kind of a toss-up in that regard.


I would consider Camo Cloaks, but that's personal opinion.

I had them with camo cloaks but reading several articles and discussions about it, decided to leave them off. They will probably be in decent cover already and far enough away from the action to avoid most attacks. If they get barraged, I could have them "go to ground" anyway.


Why not TH/SS Terminators? They are much more survivable in CC than Tactical Terminators, and its not like you're going to shoot their overpriced Assault Cannon very often from their Land Raider. I would change them to TH/SS Termies, and add a Multi-Melta to the Land Raider.

I don't have any TH/SS Termies at the moment. Kind of a toss-up again for me on that. I'm keeping them more of a "shooty" squad if possible. Just a personal preference. As for the multi-melta on the LR, I like to play WYSIWYG as much as possible and don't have a model of a multi-melta yet.


Whoa, that is one expensive power-armored squad, with no real focus or duality.

Well to me, Sternguard are Sternguard, good at lots of things, except anti-armor, which is what the melta's are for, give them a little anti-armor capability.


Why no a Multi-Melta? If he's in a Drop Pod, might as well give him a weapon that benefits from being close and is very powerful.

I don't have a melta dreadnought yet, but have one on the way. Idea with him is just drop him in where my enemy is weakest and create some havok, tie up some of his units.


Dakka Preds are good, but why the extra armor? If it would let them shoot every turn i would take it, but otherwise i would leave it at home.

I've read in several articles the pros and cons of armor on tanks. Some don't believe in it, others wouldn't leave home without it. I guess the one that struck me most was, a tank that can't move is a dead tank. A tank that still has the ability to move can get behind cover, create an armored wall for another unit or even tank shock, so even without the ability to shoot, a moving tank is better than a still tank. Again, kind of a toss-up for me on that, but I'm erring on the side that having the armor and being able to keep the tank moving if possible is my better option.

Unfortunately as of yet I don't have any Attack bikes or Typhoons... thinking of getting some Speeders eventually though.

[lowdog]

Why the heavy flamers on Sternguard? Since sternguard can't move and fire, it seems like too short ranged a weapon to use effectively. Anything close enough to get flamed should be assaulting or moving away.

[Chexmix282]

Why can't Sternguard move and fire? they can flame out of their Rhino if it moved 6" or less, or they can disembark after moving 12" and shoot at full effectiveness (assuming they Rapid Fire). Heavy Flamers are an Assault Weapon, remember.

[lowdog]

Holy Crap, did not realize Heavy Flamers were assault 1. I thought they were Heavy 1. Rescind everything I said.