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Smurfs
11-07-2010, 03:57 PM
I just wanted to get everyones opinion on this list:

Archon with Agoniser, Blaster, Shadow Field, Ghostplate Armour,Shadow Field.

2 Haemonculus both with Webway portals and Hexrifles

5 Incubi with Onslaught and a Klaivex with Demiklaives

2 groups of 4 Kabalite Trueborn, both with 2 Splinter Cannons, 2 Blasters, a Venom with Night Shields and a Splinter Cannon

2 groups of 20 Kabalite Warriors, both with 2 Dark Lances

3 Groups of 15 Wyches, all with 3 Hydra Gauntlets and a Hekatrix with Phantasm Grenade Launchers and an Agoniser

The idea is to start with the two groups of Trueborns, both with a Haemonculus, on the table to move forward and drop the webway portal on the first turn. Im going to start with the two groups of Warriors on the table as well defending any objectives. The rest will arrive from reserves. Im thinking of maybe dropping one of the warrior units and adding a couple Cronos engines and possibly taking a Truborn squad out and putting a Beastmaster squad in. So any thoughts?

BuFFo
11-07-2010, 04:22 PM
My opinion?

Dump Web Ways, and go Raiders. Web Ways are horrible now. The damning fact is that Vehicles can no longer get out of a Web Way Portal. I have played a few games with the new Portal, and it is a waste of 35 points. Units you would want to stick in them, you can just give Raiders, or can move incredibly far on foot anyway.

Smurfs
11-07-2010, 07:09 PM
Well if thats the case, Ill probably just stick with my original idea of making a Hellion themed army to start off with.

Son_of_Osiris
11-09-2010, 12:38 AM
Dump Web Ways, and go Raiders. Web Ways are horrible now. The damning fact is that Vehicles can no longer get out of a Web Way Portal. I have played a few games with the new Portal, and it is a waste of 35 points. Units you would want to stick in them, you can just give Raiders, or can move incredibly far on foot anyway.

Well if thats the case, Ill probably just stick with my original idea of making a Hellion themed army to start off with.

Whoa! Easy there turbo. Lets not be too quick to judge. Though it does suck that vehicles can't go through the portal, lets look at the 'big irrefutable fact' of the dark eldar army. If you go second and set up any boats, they'll get shot at... and probably sustain severe damage. SO... many folks will put their boats in reserve, or deep strike in with the duke/retros. Though you'll be at the mercy of reserve rolls, its better than getting shot off the table in one damn turn.

Though I agree that folks shouldn't necessarily build list around webway portals, I do think it's a niffty ace to have up your sleeve. If you DO want to build a list around webway portals, please include talos, or something terrifying coming out of the portals, i.e. something with feel no pain that can sustain at least a turn outside of combat. Like big ol' beast packs.

The reason I think the Webway portal is worth it (if and, ONLY IF you can spring the points) is for dawn of war. If you are rolling out of the BRB, 1/3 of the time you will play dawn of war. In this case, half the time you go first, you can deploy the portal in mid-field, taking advantage of an even greater battlefield control. IMO, hellions are a classic unit to use out of the portal. If you go second and don't want see those 16pt models get shot to hell, deepstrike em. If you have a WWP down, come screaming out of it. This would also work great with beast packs, though not as well as hellions I think. Webway portals ARE flexibility. Is it worth 35pts? Definately not every game! Dark Eldar need everything they can get if they go second... and that means fightin' dirty. Obviously there are ALOT of factors involved with webway use, like terrain, opponent, mission... which makes it a better option to have.

Btw, I think the hex rifle is a second rate choice to the liquifier gun. Most of the big stuff you wanna kill with the hex rifle has an invulnerable and only fails the wounds check on 5 or 6. Not worth 15pts i don't think. For 15, you can get the trusty (lol) liquifier and poison blade. Much more flexible. If you want a scary toy, take the shattershard... that thing is terrifying

BuFFo
11-09-2010, 12:51 AM
Whoa! Easy there turbo. Lets not be too quick to judge.

Who said I was quick to judge?

I have been playing DE for 12 years straight. I have use the WWP in 3 different editions, and the only edition it ever had any teeth was in 4th edition, when Terrain blocked LOS completely.

The WWP was only ever good because or two reasons;

1) you could bring Skimmers onto the table top with them. This was powerful twofold, since your opponent could not block you from leaving the WWP with units, and you could get a massive charge range with your CC units out ofa WWP.

2) You could 'charge up and save' Reserves. SO when you deployed your WWP on turn 3, on turn 4 your entire army, who has rolled for reserves and could not be deployed until the WWP was available, would be barfed out at once.

The new WWP cannot do neither of these things. The new WWP serves no real purpose now that Raiders got a Flcikerfield. Even if you do field them, you scramble to just dump them out on turn 1 anyway, since your reserves can arrive turn 2, and if they do, what was the point of a 35 point wargear?



If you go second and set up any boats, they'll get shot at... and probably sustain severe damage.

Oh, I'll refute that. Go watch my Battle Reports in the General Discussion forum. Raiders with FlickerFields have entered into the 'Tau annoyance and survivability' realm. Sure, your Raiders get shot at, but 33% of the time, you ignore it, as opposed to 0% in the previous codex.


SO... many folks will put their boats in reserve, or deep strike in with the duke/retros. Though you'll be at the mercy of reserve rolls, its better than getting shot off the table in one damn turn.

Big old negative sir.

Dark Eldar CANNOT survive coming into the battlefield piece mail unless you are using very specific units, mainly the Heavy Support choices. If you Reserve anything else, we do not survive being shot at like Eldar do. Your units will get torn out of the skies as they come onto the board one at a time on the various turns.


Though I agree that folks shouldn't necessarily build list around webway portals, I do think it's a niffty ace to have up your sleeve. If you DO want to build a list around webway portals, please include talos, or something terrifying coming out of the portals, i.e. something with feel no pain that can sustain at least a turn outside of combat. Like big ol' beast packs.

I have played two games with a WWP based army, and both games all my portals got surrounded. I still won both games, but my units cam onto the board on my own table edge as normal. The new WWP is just bad.

With my experience with the old WWP and the new WWP, and the old Raiders, and the new Raiders with Flickerfields, the new WWP is just a worthless piece of garbage. A novelty fluff piece at best.

But don't take my word for it. Play a few games with it. It may turn out okay for you, who knows lol.

Son_of_Osiris
11-09-2010, 01:34 AM
Who said I was quick to judge?

That was directed at the other guy.


Oh, I'll refute that. Go watch my Battle Reports in the General Discussion forum. Raiders with FlickerFields have entered into the 'Tau annoyance and survivability' realm. Sure, your Raiders get shot at, but 33% of the time, you ignore it, as opposed to 0% in the previous codex.

I wouldn't rely on that 5+ save. Plus, DE lists of the new dex have fewer boats than before. NOW i do know you could build almost an identical same list as in the previous codex. But with DE units being marginally better than before, folks are gonna invest in them and not just in their transports like before. With out a doubt, raiders have the option of being more survivable, but it all balances out.


Big old negative sir.

Dark Eldar CANNOT survive coming into the battlefield piece mail unless you are using very specific units, mainly the Heavy Support choices. If you Reserve anything else, we do not survive being shot at like Eldar do. Your units will get torn out of the skies as they come onto the board one at a time on the various turns.

Everything is about situation. Obviously some battles are gonna be an option of being shot down in mid-field vs. being shot down in your deployment zone. No DE can take it in the teeth. In this example, lets just assume the worst: going second against an opponent that can and will shoot you of the table. Plus, alot of tournament tables have aweful terrain, alot of which don't block LOS worth anything.


I have played two games with a WWP based army, and both games all my portals got surrounded. I still won both games, but my units cam onto the board on my own table edge as normal. The new WWP is just bad.

With my experience with the old WWP and the new WWP, and the old Raiders, and the new Raiders with Flickerfields, the new WWP is just a worthless piece of garbage. A novelty fluff piece at best.

But don't take my word for it. Play a few games with it. It may turn out okay for you, who knows lol.

Oh yes, i've seen your reports on dakka and here. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to make this a Dark Eldar pissing contest. I've played DE for about the same number of years as you said and have greatly anticipated this new book. I've been testing the book out the day the store copy showed up lol.

I'm certainly not saying that the WWP is the bee's knees or anything. Though I do think it can be very useful in certain situations. Just coming on and saying "this thing is garbage" may be going a bit too far. You have to admit though, like in all phils kelly's well written books, everyone is gonna have a different opinion on everything.