1850 ig

[ElCheezus]

So I commented on some threads, time for my own list to take some heat. I recently scaled up to 1850 from 1500, so this is still constantly changing as I feel my way around these extra points.

CCS: 3x Melta, astropath
7x Ratlings
5-man Storm Troopers Melta x2
5-man Storm Troopers Melta x2
Plasma Vets in a Chimera
Plasma Vets in a Chimera
Plasma Vets in a Chimera
Penal Legion Squad
Vendetta w/ Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Vendetta w/ Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Hellhound w/ Hull Multi-Melta
Leman Russ Demolisher w/ LasCannon
Hydra x2
Basilisk

I'm doing this from memory, so the points might be a little off. The MM on the Hellhound and LC on the Russ are how I eat up the last few points if necessary. If I'm over, they're what would be dropped first.

The idea of the army is an aggressive mech component with long-range support. Move in with the Vets, Hellhound, and Demolisher while laying down some long-range hurt with everything else. The CCS is in a Vendetta, and Scouts ahead if there's a high-priority target. The PLS outflanks onto objectives if necessary, or rides in a Vendetta and waits for opportunity.

When scaling up to 1850, I found that my Fast Attack and Heavy Support slots were all full already, so I couldn't add much there, that's why the Hydras are in a squad. I also didn't really want to add more Vet squads in Chimeras, as they were getting too spammy, which bores me a little. My solution was to fill out the elite slot. With an Astropath and some units that outflank already, I figured Storm Troopers fit pretty well. If I get second turn, I can decide to outflank them if it's advantageous. Ratlings are on a trial run. If they don't work out, Marbo will take their place.

So, I'm open to thoughts on the list as well as playing strategy.

[Tynskel]

You should move harker's chimera to the command squad, since it cannot outflank/infiltrate with Harker, anyhow.
Then those meltas will be mobile.

Interesting list--- aggressive!

[Nungunz]

You should move harker's chimera to the command squad, since it cannot outflank/infiltrate with Harker, anyhow.

They can't infiltrate, but they sure as heck are allowed to outflank in the chimera. Check the rules on page 94, last sentence under "Outflank".

Still, not the greatest choice as stormtroopers can do the same thing for cheaper and are more tactically flexible.

[ElCheezus]

Actually, Harker is a mistake entry. I already took him out for points when I ramped up to 1850. He was a "might be cool" that I decided to try out at a later date. Maybe if the Ratlings don't work out (they did mediocre in two games last night, though I kept forgetting to shoot with them)

Also, Nungunz is correct, it wouldn't be able to infiltrate, but it can indeed outflank with the squad. If I want to infiltrate with them, and give the chimera to the CCS, I can just deploy the CCS hiding right behind it and get in on turn one.

I think you're right, Nungunz, about Stormtroopers doing much the same thing, but the way I run them would be different, I think. Stormtroopers are thus far deepstriking spot removal, while a Harker squad would be more harassment/scoring. Also, the Harker squad has tons more firepower: 3 plas vs 2 melta, plus a HB and the Chimera loadout.

Again, though, I'm not using him currently. /shrug

[Nungunz]

Three things kinda don't jive with me for the entire list:

1) No scoring units in the vendettas. The CCS works well, but I still would like to see a cheap scoring unit hiding inside. Even if it's vets w/ x3 flamers. You may not be using their BS4 at all, but they are cheap and compliment the Vendetta very well.

Vendetta can kill transports while the flamers roast the troops inside, could drop off the troops to burn enemies off of objectives, and most importantly are now scoring units.

2) Most of your army is crazy mobile, but you have a lot of elements slowing you down. IE, the ratlings, hydras, bassy, and maybe the penal legion.

Snipers just plain suck in 40k, there is not getting around that. Not to mention our can't score and have terrible leadership. Marbo would be infinitely better and is fairly mobile since he shows up just about anywhere.

Hydras are awesome vehicles......but I don't think they fit in your list. This is one of the few cases where I'd suggest taking an Exterminator instead (:eek:). It can advance with the rest of your chimera line to protect their weak side armor, is very hard to kill, and can fire to full effect while on the move. Hydras can't do anything like that, save them more a more static list.

Basilisk are also pretty terrible in standard 40k (though they rock in Apoc). Can't move and fire is a biggie, but there is worse. The 36" minimum range makes it very easy to avoid the indirect fire. Yes you can fire directly.....but that means you have a very juicy AV12, open-topped vehicle in LOS of the enemy's anti-tank weapons. This is not good.

Penal Legion are very random and don't really fit the theme of the list. They have the potential of being very mobile and mediocre in CC (rather than just sucking), but are very unreliable. You're call, though, I've never used them so all I'm going on is theory.

3) Too much plasma. That stuff is expensive and you really only need/want a 3:1 melta to plasma ratio.

[ElCheezus]

There are a number of things I disagree with, honestly.

1) In terms of scoring units in the Vendetta, I think they're plenty worth their points without being scoring. Also, taking a unit only for its ability to be scoring is wasting its firepower. You mention that flamers can roast tranported units, but that would be wasting the 48" range onthe LasCannons. Finally, unless there are high priority targets, the Venettas usually pick up a Vet squad out of a wrecked Chimera on turn 4 for the turn 5 objective grab.

In the same light, though, I used to put a PCS in my Vendettas when I ran platoons.

2) Some of my heavy choices (like the basilisk) are model restricion. Ideally, I'd run an Executioner Russ when I get the model, or maybe another Demolisher. (I'm really liking how this one has worked so far) However, in general I don't want ALL of the army to be advancing. This leaves large opportunities for enemies to either multi-assault or create a parking lot. I don't want so many vehicles that I get in my own way. It's happened before and it's reallyannoying.

I'll probably agree with you on the Ratlings, but I wanted to give them a shot at being a harassing unit. I think when they come out, they'll be replaced either by Marbo as suggested, or Harker so that unit can outflank again.

PLS is random. And so far they've been random in a bad way (gunslingers) six games in a row. Despite this, they have almost always worked at their purpose, which is harassment and outflanking for an objective. I almost always put them in the back corner of the enemy deployment zone. They're just enough that they can't be ignored, and sometimes enough to take down a squad. If you're lucky enough to not be me and roll not-gunslingers, they can outflank into tanks and usually do something with 22 attacks that are either FC or rending. At the absolute worst, they make the Vendetta scoring, like you wanted.

3) People seriously undervalue Plasma, I think. Against AV12 from 0"-6", yes, it's a lot worse than Melta. Against vehicles from 6"-12", it's comparable, but still a little under. Under AV12 and the numbers move toward Plasma (you know, like Rhinos and Chimera side armor). What it gains is being twice as effective against all forms of infantry until you get to T6. It's more expensive, but I think it's much more versatile. If you have enough melta for your AV13-14 targets (which I think I do, at least for my meta so far), then Plasma gets my vote.

I think what I get from your advice is that you're thinking I should go even more aggressive, which in general I agree with. However, I think long-range support is a big part of that equation. Basilisk could/should be a Manticore, or maybe a Colosus, but in general I think the Hydras and artillery (along with Vendettas) provide a two-part threat: armored wall with death behind it.

[Tynskel]

basalisk can move n' fire--- just not indirectly. It is the Griffon that cannot move n' fire.

I am a big fan of Exterminators too, especially for protecting chimeras, like you have.

[Nungunz]

There are a number of things I disagree with, honestly.

1) In terms of scoring units in the Vendetta, I think they're plenty worth their points without being scoring. Also, taking a unit only for its ability to be scoring is wasting its firepower. You mention that flamers can roast tranported units, but that would be wasting the 48" range onthe LasCannons. Finally, unless there are high priority targets, the Venettas usually pick up a Vet squad out of a wrecked Chimera on turn 4 for the turn 5 objective grab.

Really it's personal preference on my part. Wouldn't necessarily be wasting the 48" lascannon range, I'd only advise doing the move-drop-roast if the Vendetta is shaken or is starting to run out of guns. I just like the options having a unit on board provides....granted it does mean less troop choices that could be used for other purposes.

Both have pros and cons.


2) Some of my heavy choices (like the basilisk) are model restricion. Ideally, I'd run an Executioner Russ when I get the model, or maybe another Demolisher. (I'm really liking how this one has worked so far) However, in general I don't want ALL of the army to be advancing. This leaves large opportunities for enemies to either multi-assault or create a parking lot. I don't want so many vehicles that I get in my own way. It's happened before and it's reallyannoying.

Executioners are a ton of fun and it's the only tank I'd suggest taking sponsons. It's pricey as all hell, but you aren't screwed when a weapon-destroyed result pops up.

Demolisher are by far my favorite tank. Who doesn't like AV14 with S10 ordinance? :)

Parking lot I've never really had an issue with as my stormies in chimeras are usually outflanking. At 1850 I have 4-6 chimeras (depends on if I take stormies), 2 Vendettas, and 2 Russes, and 3 sentinels so parking lot isn't a problem.


PLS is random. And so far they've been random in a bad way (gunslingers) six games in a row. Despite this, they have almost always worked at their purpose, which is harassment and outflanking for an objective. I almost always put them in the back corner of the enemy deployment zone. They're just enough that they can't be ignored, and sometimes enough to take down a squad. If you're lucky enough to not be me and roll not-gunslingers, they can outflank into tanks and usually do something with 22 attacks that are either FC or rending. At the absolute worst, they make the Vendetta scoring, like you wanted.

Heheh, fun. I don't know, I've never had the urge to try them. Might give it a shot some time.

3) People seriously undervalue Plasma, I think. Against AV12 from 0"-6", yes, it's a lot worse than Melta. Against vehicles from 6"-12", it's comparable, but still a little under. Under AV12 and the numbers move toward Plasma (you know, like Rhinos and Chimera side armor). What it gains is being twice as effective against all forms of infantry until you get to T6. It's more expensive, but I think it's much more versatile. If you have enough melta for your AV13-14 targets (which I think I do, at least for my meta so far), then Plasma gets my vote.


I think what I get from your advice is that you're thinking I should go even more aggressive, which in general I agree with. However, I think long-range support is a big part of that equation. Basilisk could/should be a Manticore, or maybe a Colosus, but in general I think the Hydras and artillery (along with Vendettas) provide a two-part threat: armored wall with death behind it.

Fair enough. I usually play hybrid lists, full mech is a bit newish for me so I definitely understand the sentiment.



basalisk can move n' fire--- just not indirectly. It is the Griffon that cannot move n' fire.

My bad, you are correct.


I am a big fan of Exterminators too, especially for protecting chimeras, like you have.

Yeah, for the longest time I put them in the same category as punishers and vanquishers until I realized how useful they can be.

[w7west]

I would suggest purchasing or creating for yourself a shirt with a red button with "WIN" inscribed. Or play something other than imperial guard both are valid options.

[ElCheezus]

Chimeras for Storm Troopers. I don't think I thought of that, I was focused on Deep-striking them. In Chimeras they'd have a 20" theoretical metla threat range, and a 26" S8 AP1 threat range (good enough for side armor, I'd say). If the ended up getting deep struck, then the CCS could hijack one, or they could both just provide cover for Chimeras with actual dudes in it. . . I like this thought. Must buy more Chimeras. X.x

Also, I'm increacingly of the opinion that I need Dozer Blades on everything, ever. I immobilised three vehicles last time. . . That would also solve any "parking lot" issues.

Exterminators I can't justify, really, when Hyras are available. I guess I could see them for when you want AV 14/13, and you don't want blast templates scattering all over your guys. I guess it just feels like too little firepower on what is usually a beast of a tank. Now if you made into four twin-linked Missle Launcher shots, then I'd be interested. Ah well, we could dream all day.

[Nungunz]

I would suggest purchasing or creating for yourself a shirt with a red button with "WIN" inscribed. Or play something other than imperial guard both are valid options.

Hey now, I also play Tyranids and Demonhunters. ;)

[ElCheezus]

I gave some thought to Nungunz's thought of getting rid of the immobile units. I've come up with a tweaked list that focuses more on the mech + disruption, instead of mech + ranged support and a side of disruption.

CCS: 3x Melta, astropath
5-man unit of GK terminators w/ Hood
Marbo
5-man Storm Troopers Melta x2
5-man Storm Troopers Melta x2
Plasma Vets in a Chimera
Plasma Vets in a Chimera
Plasma Vets in a Chimera
Penal Legion Squad
Vendetta w/ Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Vendetta w/ Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Hellhound
Leman Russ Demolisher w/ LasCannon, HB Sponsons

(Again from memory, so a couple options might not be correct)

As expected, the Ratlings didn't pan out so much. With four units coming in from reserve either outflanking or deepsriking, I realized that I had three elements instead of two, which is where I think an army start to lose focus. Having just Marbo and/or one PLS is light distruption, and not bad, but the inclusion of the Storm Troopers made me think I was putting enough points into "surprise" units that must be dealt with to make them a full-on element. That meant cutting long-range. Plus, the basilisk becomes a liability at that point, where I either scatter onto my own, or can't place the template.

Due to modeling restrictions at this point, I don't have any other HS choices. GKs were my best option at the moment to keep with the goals of the army, and it adds another DS unit to get in their faces. Plus, I just wanted to play around with terminators. If they end up not working the way I want, I think my next move will have to include buying more models. Either another Russ or another Vet squad, at least.