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Skarekrow07
11-19-2010, 06:10 PM
so with a lot of big tournaments coming up around the area ive got to start thinking bout the big games.

I also wanted to start a new army for this...and something that a lot of people dont play. so...white scars.

my first thoughts were just bikes but ive been trying around using more heavy support. something i dont want in my army however is elite choices. so here we go:

white skars 1850:

Kor'sarro Khan: Moondrakken 205

Command Squad: Bikes, Champion, 3 power weapons, 3 stormsheilds 310

I dont want this squad to die...

Librarian on a bike Null zone Might of Ancients 135
he will most likely join khan


Bike squad add 2 bikes sgt w/ power weapon meltagun meltagun attack bike with multimelta 225

Bike squad add 2 bikes sgt w/ power weapon meltagun meltagun attack bike with multimelta 225

Bike squad add 2 bikes sgt w/ power weapon meltagun meltagun attack bike with multimelta 225

attack bike squad with 3 multimelta 150

predator lascannon 105

predator lascannon 105

vindicator 125

hold a few squads in reserves, khan goes in reserve then try to pop a few transports before they come out and play clean up. simple plan.

all c&c welcome unless its mean...i dont like mean

-skarekrow

blackarmchair
11-22-2010, 06:33 AM
Well...It's a cool list. I would certainly like to own that many bikes. But to be perfectly frank (not mean) with you, I would eat this list as soon as it came on the board. The issue with it is that it's very predictable, it is very obvious that you're going to outflank which is actually a poor decision because given bikes' ability to turbo-boot outflanking really doesn't grant you any extra mobility.

If you do outflank your opponent will likely deploy heavily on one side forcing you to deploy piecemeal in front of him and get eaten or deploy piecemeal on the other board edge and remove any advantage a turbo boost might have granted you.

All I know is, if you pulled this on my space wolves. I would shoot 21 rockets and 6 lascannons on whatever turbo-boosted off the board edge. And if you turbo boosted off a board edge close to where I deployed you would find the long fangs completely bubble-wrapped by razorbacks and each vehicle with at LEAST a 4+ smokes cover save.



Whew, after all that: some advice. What you REALLY want to do with a speedy list like this one is shove very fast very hard-hitting squads down your opponent's throat. Your turn 1/2 goal should be to de-mech your opponent. You seem to have put a lot of stock in your meltaguns which is both good and bad. It's good because meltas are amazing at breaking armour, it's bad because you WILL get counter-charged immediately and your bikes are not very killy in close combat.

My advice to you is to drop the vindicator. Drop Kor'Sarro Khan (you needn't outflank). And Drop to Command Squad. Instead have 3 Predators with Autocannon Turret and Lascannon Sponsons. Have a regular captain with bike and another troop choice bike squad. Finally, pack in more dakka. You need more TwL bolters, more melta, more more more. It's difficult with a bike army because everything is so expensive. But here's what I'm thinking:

+ Space Marine Captain [175]
- Space Marine Bike, Thunder Hammer, Combi-Melta

+ Space Marine Librarian [135]
- Space Marine Bike
- Null Zone, Avenger

+ Space Marine Bike Squad [220]
- 1x Sergeant; 1x Combi-Flamer
- 5x Space Marine Bikers; 2x Meltaguns
- 1x Attack Bike; 1x Multi-Melta

+ Space Marine Bike Squad [220]
- 1x Sergeant; 1x Combi-Flamer
- 5x Space Marine Bikers; 2x Meltaguns
- 1x Attack Bike; 1x Multi-Melta

+ Space Marine Bike Squad [220]
- 1x Sergeant; 1x Combi-Flamer
- 5x Space Marine Bikers; 2x Meltaguns
- 1x Attack Bike; 1x Multi-Melta

+ Space Marine Bike Squad [220]
- 1x Sergeant; 1x Combi-Flamer
- 5x Space Marine Bikers; 2x Meltaguns
- 1x Attack Bike; 1x Multi-Melta

+ Attack Bike Squadron [150]
- 3x Attack Bikes with Multi-Meltas

+ Attack Bike Squadron [150]
- 3x Attack Bikes with Multi-Meltas

+ Predator [120]
- Autocannon & Lascannon Sponsons

+ Predator [120]
- Autocannon & Lascannon Sponsons

+ Predator [120]
- Autocannon & Lascannon Sponsons

Total: 1850

This way you have a RETARDED amount of melta, better long-range can openers and bolters and combi-flamers for that horde army you just might see. There are better min-maxy choices out there that stick to your biker style but I tried to keep to the organization you seem to like and the models you seem to have.

Let me know what you think. Sorry for writing you a whole artice, I get carried away ;)

Splug
11-22-2010, 12:31 PM
Every power sword in that original list is on either a model with a storm shield, or with no other CCW - for whatever reason, the sergeants in bike squads only have a pistol, and they need to give it up to take an alternate weapon. So you're losing a lot of attacks across the board there. In my opinion fists or combi-weapons tend to work better on bike sergeants for this reason.

I like having Khan in lists because he gives you the option to outflank. There are some armies like Tyranids or Khorne CSM where you really don't want to show up at point-blank range, and you should be ready to start with everything on the table. On the other hand, if your opponent decides to go first with an alpha-strike heavy army like IG or Tau, then don't hesitate to reserve everything including the predators! Sure they can't outflank (they never had Combat Tactics to trade for Outflanking) but 3 vehicles on the table unsupported will not make it to the bottom of turn 1 - depending on how many vendetta-transported melta vets your opponent has, even LoS-denying terrain may not be enough to save them.

I also agree with blackarmchair that the vindicator does not fit into this list. It's too slow, too short ranged, and too risky for a bunch of non-mechanized models that want to be in melta-range of something. It also suffers hard in the event you choose to null-deploy, as it will come off the table way too far back to be useful for more than a turn or two (if it doesn't just get destroyed before then). The triple predator build probably will work better for you.

blackarmchair
11-22-2010, 05:40 PM
Khan isn't bad. He's just overpriced for very little benefit. If you can turbo-boost 24" off your own table edge turn 1, it's not too much different from coming off a table edge.

What makes it REALLY worse is that you come in from reserves in pieces making it really easy to focus-fire on you.

eagleboy7259
11-23-2010, 12:00 AM
http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/40k-finished-tacticas/190403-tactica-space-marine-bike-armies.html

You might want to take a look at that before starting a bike army. Basically, you shouldn't take Khan. He actually hurts bike armies because you have to give up Chapter Tactics.

Splug
11-23-2010, 11:39 AM
Khan isn't bad. He's just overpriced for very little benefit. If you can turbo-boost 24" off your own table edge turn 1, it's not too much different from coming off a table edge.

What makes it REALLY worse is that you come in from reserves in pieces making it really easy to focus-fire on you.True; when I was playing with Khan, I only had one squad of bikes and the primary goal was to bring assault terminators and a 4x meltagun command squad in a rhino off the flanks. It was nice to bring the bikes off the edge for a 24" multi-melta->assault the turn they arrived, but that wasn't the main benefit.

blackarmchair
11-23-2010, 02:09 PM
I made a funny Khan list once. Max Assault Cannon razorback squads, max assault cannon/multi-melta land speeders and take Tigirius. That way you keep your army in reserve as long as possible then bring it all in when it's easy to do so on turn 3 or 4 and fire something on the order of 70 rending str 6 shots at whatever's out there. LOADS of fun.