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MasterGideon
11-25-2010, 01:42 PM
Hello all.

I am thinking of going to to the Throne of Skulls next year with my Dark Angels, Now I know its a outdated and out gunned codex, but im still going because I am one stubborn person!

So My thoughts on what list to take is the following:

Belial (Lighting Claws)
10 man Scout Squad (4 Shotguns + Heavy Bolter & 5 Sniper Rifles)
Deathwing Command Squad (3TH/SS, 2 LC + Cyclone + Standard Bearer)
Tactical Squad - Sgt w/Melta Bombs + Melta Gun + Razorback w/Storm Bolter
Tactical Squad - Sgt w/Melta Bombs+ Melta Gun + Rhino w/Storm Bolter
Ravenwing Speeder w/Multi Melta + Heavy Flamer (x2)
Land Raider Crusader w/Storm Bolter
5 Man Devestator Squad - 2x Missile Launcher + Razorback w/TLLC + Storm Bolter.

Now the basic plan on objective games would be to use the devestators to take out anti armour, and the scouts to help defend my own objective.

The Tactical Squad go for the enemey objectives alone with the Crusader(Belial and Deathwing inside) and the Speeders provide an escort to take out enemy tanks also. Hopefully one of my transport would make it to the last turn and make a dash with a troop choice unit inside to claim.

Now Is it worth dropping the Heavy Bolter from the Scout Squad and upgrade the Rhino to a razorback? that is my only thought was looking at this.

Thanks for any feedback!

MasterGideon

blackarmchair
11-26-2010, 12:08 AM
Use Codex: Space Marines. Save points, get the EXACT SAME THING.

Your not even using deathwing terminators so...why belial...?

MasterGideon
11-26-2010, 02:02 AM
I have a deathwing command squad....

As for using sm codex, the only things i gain are 10 marine + 2 missile launchers.

But i do lose scoring terminators + ld 10 across the board long as belial alive.

As i said im stubborn, i aint going to win but im sure as hell going to go down fighting.

Master Gideon.

isotope99
11-26-2010, 03:25 AM
I'd only take one TH/SS for tank-busting as they are the old DA version.

I'd drop the scout's H bolter as you say, given that the shotgun squad is so short range or otherwise put it in the sniper squad.

blackarmchair
11-26-2010, 04:01 AM
Your terminators are more expensive and cannot be in a squad larger than 5 man.

The book is really bad in relation to what's out there. In reality, if you're playing a codex chapter and not using a codex: space marine special character there's no reason you shouldn't be using the Blood Angel's Codex.

But if you must be stubborn I understand. I guess, if you're going to play DA then do something unique to DA. Play an all ravenwing army - or something of the like. This list is just meh compared to what my space wolves would bring - or what a BA player would bring.

I mean, for anti-tank you have 4 shots of rockets and 2 lascannons...a couple meltas don't make up for this because if you're close enough to melta you're close enough to be charged by cheaper superior assault troops.

For anti-infantry you have some heavy bolters? And pretty much nothing for MEQs and TEQs.

I'm not trying to be rude, I just want to help you make a good tourney list. Looking at what you have: 4 AV11 or worse vehicles and 1 land raider and a few footsloggers; a good MSU razorback list could table this army in 1-2 turns. You have to understand how much dakka the new marine books can pack in. In an 1850 list my space wolves can put out 21 rockets and 5 lascannons and I play a hybrid list (not min/maxed nor full razorback) not only this but the "shooty" wolf and angels armies will STILL out assault you.

Long story short, if you absolutely positively MUST play the old DA book. Spam bikes and speeders, scout move early and try your best to alpha strike. Then hide for the rest of the game. Really, it's the only way to be even minimally effective.

It's really sad what's become of the Dark Angels, they're a really cool chapter that deserve their own book SOON.

Connjurus
11-26-2010, 04:24 AM
If you're taking Belial, I really see no point in the tactical squads - go for scoring Terminators. Drop the command squad if you have to, and attach Belial to one of the troop ones.

MasterGideon
11-26-2010, 05:14 AM
I hear what everyone is saying. I will have to go back to the drawing board, but I am more thinking of going to have fun, not to win.

I may have to see about dropping some scouts to get a full 10man tactical with heavy weapon to bring up my anti mech.

I would use the Space Marine codex, but it feels dirty and wrong when all my marines are paited in Dark Angel colours haha!

MasterGideon

Tynskel
11-26-2010, 11:19 AM
"I am thinking of going to to the Throne of Skulls next year with my Dark Angels, Now I know its a outdated and out gunned codex, but im still going because I am one stubborn person!"


One Stubborn Person: Dark Angels is Totally your army!!

Tynskel
11-26-2010, 12:00 PM
Okay:

I Like what you have. Solid Core. There are minor changes I would make.

OPTION 1)
1) Ditch the Devastators (215)
2) Ditch all Stormbolter upgrades (15)

Take:
150 Company Veterans Squad
5 Marines, 2 Storm Bolters, Plasma Rifle, Missile Launcher, Power Weapon
80 Dedicated Transport: Razorback w/Twin-Linked Lascannon

This unit has better firepower than the dual missile launcher Devastators-- efficient use of points. They also have more attacks in CC.

Option 2:
1) Ditch the Devastators (215)
2) Ditch all Stormbolter upgrades (15)
(I sense a theme here...)
3) Drop the Scouts (185 points)
4) Remove one set of Melta Bombs (5)

Take:
1) 130 Predator Destructor
Lascannon Sponsons
2) 130 Predator Destructor
Lascannon Sponsons
3) 145 Dreadnought
Extra Armor, Hv Flamer
4) Sgt that lost Melta Bombs, add a Power Weapon (15)

This ups the long range Firepower of your army. With the Dreadnought, you also have some backup Close Combat, so you will not have to rely on your Terminators for all Close Combats.
If you don't want 2 Pred Destructors, I would take a Vindicator with Dozer Blade instead. Then you have something that can ride along side the Land Raider that has decent armor, and a Phat Gun.


Quite frankly: The Devastators cost too many points for what you get.

MasterGideon
11-26-2010, 12:41 PM
Okay:

I Like what you have. Solid Core. There are minor changes I would make.

OPTION 1)
1) Ditch the Devastators (215)
2) Ditch all Stormbolter upgrades (15)

Take:
150 Company Veterans Squad
5 Marines, 2 Storm Bolters, Plasma Rifle, Missile Launcher, Power Weapon
80 Dedicated Transport: Razorback w/Twin-Linked Lascannon

This unit has better firepower than the dual missile launcher Devastators-- efficient use of points. They also have more attacks in CC.

Option 2:
1) Ditch the Devastators (215)
2) Ditch all Stormbolter upgrades (15)
(I sense a theme here...)
3) Drop the Scouts (185 points)
4) Remove one set of Melta Bombs (5)

Take:
1) 130 Predator Destructor
Lascannon Sponsons
2) 130 Predator Destructor
Lascannon Sponsons
3) 145 Dreadnought
Extra Armor, Hv Flamer
4) Sgt that lost Melta Bombs, add a Power Weapon (15)

This ups the long range Firepower of your army. With the Dreadnought, you also have some backup Close Combat, so you will not have to rely on your Terminators for all Close Combats.
If you don't want 2 Pred Destructors, I would take a Vindicator with Dozer Blade instead. Then you have something that can ride along side the Land Raider that has decent armor, and a Phat Gun.


Quite frankly: The Devastators cost too many points for what you get.

I Like your option 2! I keep forgetting about predators!

Ok so a new list which is the following:

Belial(LC)
Deathwing Command Squad (3TH/SS, 2LC + Cyclone & Standard Bearer)
Dreadnought w/Heavy Flamer, Assault Cannon (Or should I got Plasma Cannon or Twin-Linked Autocannons?)
5 Man Tactical Squad, Melta Gun + Razorback
5 Man Tactical Squad, Melta Gun + Razorback
Landspeeder MM/HF
Landspeeder MM/HF
Land Raider Crusader
Predator w/Sponson Lascannon
Predator w/Sponson Lascannon

This List comes in at 1495pts so what should I spend the last 5 points on?

Good thing I have kept hold of my old MK1 & MK2 Predators!

MasterGideon

Tynskel
11-26-2010, 01:13 PM
I think I am missing something:

HQ 155
155 Belial
Company Banner, Lightning Claws

ELITES 130
130 Dreadnought
Hv Flamer

TROOPS 535
235 Deathwing
Cyclone, 2 LC, 3 TH/SS
100 Tactical Squad
5 Marines, Meltagun
50 Dedicated Transport: Razorback
100 Tactical Squad
5 Marines, Meltagun
50 Dedicated Transport: Razorback

FAST ATTACK 150
75 Ravenwing Support
Land Speeder, Multi-Melta, Hv Flamer
75 Ravenwing Support
Land Speeder, Multi-Melta, Hv Flamer

Hv SUPPORT 510
250 Land Raider Crusader
130 Predator Destructor
Lascannon Sponsons
130 Predator Destructor
Lascannon Sponsons

I see that you have 20 points left over. Did I miss something?

MasterGideon
11-26-2010, 01:19 PM
I think I am missing something:

HQ 155
155 Belial
Company Banner, Lightning Claws

ELITES 130
130 Dreadnought
Hv Flamer

TROOPS 535
235 Deathwing
Cyclone, 2 LC, 3 TH/SS
100 Tactical Squad
5 Marines, Meltagun
50 Dedicated Transport: Razorback
100 Tactical Squad
5 Marines, Meltagun
50 Dedicated Transport: Razorback

FAST ATTACK 150
75 Ravenwing Support
Land Speeder, Multi-Melta, Hv Flamer
75 Ravenwing Support
Land Speeder, Multi-Melta, Hv Flamer

Hv SUPPORT 510
250 Land Raider Crusader
130 Predator Destructor
Lascannon Sponsons
130 Predator Destructor
Lascannon Sponsons

I see that you have 20 points left over. Did I miss something?

I Put Extra Armour on my dread, Forgot to mention that I did! So yes I have 20 points over if I dont put extra armour on my dread.

MasterGideon

Tynskel
11-26-2010, 02:11 PM
ya know, you could use the 5 points to take a chainfist in the terminator squad.

MasterGideon
11-26-2010, 02:21 PM
I have gone for a Pintle Storm Bolter on my Crusader, More Guns!

MasterGideon

Tynskel
11-26-2010, 02:27 PM
Mawr Guns!

MasterGideon
11-26-2010, 03:22 PM
Now all I need to do is touch up my Deathwing, and make them look half decent, I shall Put some pictures up tomorrow of what the final army will look at! going to need to start putting transferes on all my models, as my army going to need them now!

MasterGideon

blackarmchair
11-26-2010, 05:57 PM
Here's the same list, as a Blood Angels list.

+ Captain [160]
- Pair of Lightning Claws, Terminator Armour

+ Terminator Squad [200]
- 5x Terminators (however u want)
- Land Raider [250]

+ Assault Squad [125]
- 5x Marines; 1x Meltagun
- Razorback

+ Assault Squad [125]
- 5x Marines; 1x Meltagun
- Razorback

+ Land Speeder [70]
- HF, MM

+ Land Speeder [70]
- HF, MM

+ Predator [135]
- Auto/las

+ Predator [135]
- Auto/las

+ Dreadnought [115]
- Hv Flamer

Total: 1385

It's better. Superior troops, better terminators (possible furious charge fearless) FAR better preds (they're fast) and you save 115 points.

Just throwing it out there.

Tynskel
11-26-2010, 06:42 PM
You are missing the point:

1) He plays Dark Angels.

2) Blood Angels Terminators cannot claim.

3) 115 points is one unit. A good commander doesn't need one more unit. He needs Stubborn men! Fearless Terminators!

blackarmchair
11-27-2010, 12:46 AM
1) You can still play DA, just use the other book.

2) Why would you want a Terminator unit to score? That's such a misuse of everything their given. Why waste all the power weapons and guns by just hanging out on an objective.

3) One unit is HUGE when your have only 10 power-armored guys running around to score with.

MasterGideon
11-27-2010, 03:19 AM
Here's the same list, as a Blood Angels list.

+ Captain [160]
- Pair of Lightning Claws, Terminator Armour

+ Terminator Squad [200]
- 5x Terminators (however u want)
- Land Raider [250]

+ Assault Squad [125]
- 5x Marines; 1x Meltagun
- Razorback

+ Assault Squad [125]
- 5x Marines; 1x Meltagun
- Razorback

+ Land Speeder [70]
- HF, MM

+ Land Speeder [70]
- HF, MM

+ Predator [135]
- Auto/las

+ Predator [135]
- Auto/las

+ Dreadnought [115]
- Hv Flamer

Total: 1385

It's better. Superior troops, better terminators (possible furious charge fearless) FAR better preds (they're fast) and you save 115 points.

Just throwing it out there.

I know I can do better lists with other Codexs, but I cant handly playing with Dark Angel Coloured marines and using another dex, feels like im cheating lol!

Thou gotta point out its only a saving of 95 points, your tactical Squads should be 130pts by my maths and if your dread was the same load out as mine (Assault Cannon/Heavy Flmaer) then that be 125pts.

As for the benefits of my army well his is a break down:


Army Wide LD 10 as long as Belial alive
Deathwing Troop Choices with full close assault weapons and a cyclone missile laucher.
Old Version of TH that cause Enemey Models to strike after I1 attacks are made.
Land Raider Crusader with the old PoTMS and Free Multi-Melta
Old rules Smoke that reduced everything to glancing.


On the Charge my Deathwing unit has the following attacks
Belial 6 (3 base + LC + Banner + charging)
Deathwing LC 5 (2 Base + LC + Banner + Charging) x 2
Deathiwing TH/SS 4 (2 base + Banner + Charging) x 3

Thats 16 LC attacks and 12 Thunder Hammer attacks.

Not much is going to stand up agaist that onslaught, plus I tend to try do mutliple assaults with these guy as to cause max damage. I also use my terminators to go after enemey troops holding their own objectives, its an added bonus that there scoring and helps when in the last turn I have a unit that is hard to destroy that can claim objectives.

To win with Dark Angels, I just gotta think straight, I cant win unless I keep my guys together and help support each other, While I might have more men or better wargear if I choose a different marine dex, I still cause some problems with my Dark Angels. I aint going to Throne of Skulls to win (I would like to) but i am just going to cause a headache :D Hell I might get lucky in a few games but there still some teeth left in this codex, and by god im going to show them!

So this Is the final List:

HQ:

Belial w/LC. 130Pts

Elite:

Dreadnought w/Assault Cannon, Heavy Flamer & Extra Armour. 145 Pts

Troops

Deathwing Command Squad (2xLC, 3xTH/SS, 1xCyclone Missile Launcher, Standard Bearer) 260 Pts
5 Man Tactical Squad sgt w/Bolt Pistol/Chain Sword, 1x Melta Gun & Razorback w/Twin Linked Heavy Bolters. 150 Pts
5 Man Tactical Squad sgt w/Bolt Pistol/Chain Sword, 1x Melta Gun & Razorback w/Twin Linked Heavy Bolters. 150 Pts

Fast Attack

Land Speeder w/Multi Melta & Heavy Flamer. 75pts
Land Speeder w/Multi Melta & Heavy Flamer. 75Pts

Heavy Support

Land Raider Crusader w/Storm Bolter & Multi-Melta.255 Pts
Predator w/Autocannon and Sponson Lascannons. 130 Pts
Predator w/Autocannon and Sponson Lascannons. 130 Pts

1500Pts

MasterGideon

blackarmchair
11-27-2010, 06:13 AM
Well props to you for sticking to your over-costed guns ;)

The only real issue with the list I see is the lack of men. I don't think there's any good way around it, I think you'll just have to rely on your vehicles to be your workhorses.

Good Luck!

MasterGideon
11-27-2010, 06:41 AM
Yea but I have 3 things that no one else has!

1. Dark Angels :P

2. Jack Daniel Blessed Dice & Hipflask

3. Unnatural Good luck!

But thanks for wishing me good luck!

MasterGideon

blackarmchair
11-27-2010, 06:54 AM
A friend of mine actually plays Dark Angels. Granted he does the all terminator army but I've seen him do well with it.

So, it can be done in the right hands and if you've been rolling with Angels this long and have the luck you claim you do I'm sure you'll do just fine :)

It's just stupid how GW made the new marine books so much better than the old ones. It's like they forget that their models actually have a game that goes along with it sometimes :(

MasterGideon
11-27-2010, 08:56 AM
Amen Brother!

I just sure hope that when the new codex comes its as good as the Space Wolves/Blood Angel and the Codex Marine!

I wouldnt mind seeing a HQ choice that makes Devestators a troops choice and does funky things as well to them! ever army has been able to take either bikes/terms or assault as troops, why not devesrstators!

MasterGideon

Herald of Nurgle
11-27-2010, 10:54 AM
Considered taking Tycho for all round Ld 10, even if its for +30 on Belial?

Tynskel
11-27-2010, 11:33 AM
so now he gets one more land speeder.

meh.

blackarmchair
11-28-2010, 03:30 AM
Haha we've been over this, he truly is stubborn (which is perfect for a Dark Angel actually).

I'd be interested to see IF the DA get a new book. GW has only one real marine book on the horizon and that's Grey Knights. One of my little birdies once told me that GW's playtest/design team doesn't much care for DA especially since they don't offer much in the way of new models to produce.

Personally, I don't think most of the marine chapters deserve their own book. If you ask me, Codex: Space Marines should be one book MAYBE the non-codex chapters could have their own book (i.e. wolves, GK and templars are the only ones who really break the rules of the codex astares). I mean is Sammuel and Belial were special characters in Codex: Space Marines what would really be lost?

Sad but true.

MasterGideon
11-28-2010, 04:26 AM
Ah Im sure they a ton of stuff they can add for the Dark Angels and Black Templars for that matter.

of the top of my head Dark Angel updated models could be:

Lion Gaurd (Company/Chapter Honour Guard)
Interrogator-Chaplain
Ravenwing Jet Bikes
Upgraded Veteran Sprues
Mortis Dread model & Rules
A New Land Raider Varied to support Deathwing (Mine would be the Areas but with updates to allow Hurrican Bolter Upgrades instead of Twin-linked Heavy Flamers)
New Special Characters : Sapphon, Naaman, Asmodai. Maybe a "Iron Wing" Master to allow armoured tanks a much larger rule.
Succesor Chapter Upgrades/Characters.

as for the Black Templar:

New Crusader Squad Models, more old Mk armour
New Chaplain again (Think Trainie Chaplains)
New Dreads (Im thinking like Warmachine load ours with hammers/swords and shields.


MasterGideon

blackarmchair
11-28-2010, 03:50 PM
Oh I'm not disagreeing that they have potential. Word is that GW doesn't see the potential (really sad).

Plus, as a Wolf player I just had to growl at ya a bit. It's just the rules.

Herald of Nurgle
11-28-2010, 05:06 PM
Oh I'm not disagreeing that they have potential. Word is that GW doesn't see the potential (really sad).

Plus, as a Wolf player I just had to growl at ya a bit. It's just the rules.
In the same way that, as a Nurgle player, I had to try and sneeze on you a few times?

MasterGideon
11-28-2010, 05:07 PM
Haha not a problem im all for the growling or roarinv in my case haha!

MasterGideon

MasterGideon
11-29-2010, 01:21 PM
For anyone who cares, I have attached some photos of my deathwing command squad and Belial that I have made more applealing! I need to find my digi camera, my new phone doest take good pictures!

Now for the predators, Im thinking of ordering some "Reinforced Armour" from chapter house studios, does anyone know if they are any good? easy to fit?

MasterGideon

P.S I have added some more photos!

blackarmchair
11-29-2010, 01:46 PM
Hey not bad! Guy in the middle has a sweet banner.

Ever consider a grey drybrush on the faces? It'd bring out the detail and be real quick and easy?

MasterGideon
11-29-2010, 02:04 PM
Haha funny you should say that, the terminator with the cyclone is freshly built and made saturday and painted sunday and I tried fortres grey drybrushed on his helmet and it works a treat! Great minds think alike!

I found my camera, and Im going to get a mini photo set from amazon (white canvas cube with mini lights) so should have better photos!

I thinking im going to have to repaint all my deathwing, I hate it when you go back and look at some models and they look lame! oh well only 100 more to go haha!


MasterGideon

blackarmchair
11-29-2010, 02:48 PM
I feel your pain. Just when I started to make real progress on my wolves I inherited half an ork army and had to buy the other

-_-

Only a hundred and some to go...

Tynskel
11-29-2010, 07:09 PM
Terminators!
I get a hard on for Terminators. I have 33 myself.
Just need 67 more to have a company!
You should repost these pics over in the Modeling section! :)

MasterGideon
11-30-2010, 07:44 AM
Oh I shall. I just need to do some touch ups in regards to make them more uniformed, I painted them over 2/3 years so each one of them is slightly different going to make them more unified. Then I shall have to find a big enough area to take a photo of them all, I think I have 120 Deathwing + 7 Painted dreds (I have a chaplain dread that yet to be painted) and 3 Land Raiders (2 Crusaders, 1 Godhammer and 1 Ares)

Terminators have such a flavour to them, and you can do alot with them both paiting and modelling wise. I shall have to take a photo of my Pre-Heresy Command Squad/Angry Angels Succesor chapter. I like my standard bearer alot in my pre-heresy unit.

On a side note, How do Space Wolves get 21 Missile Launcher/6 Las-Cannon shots in a 1500 Pt game?

MasterGideon

MasterGideon
11-30-2010, 01:44 PM
http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?t=11788

I did as some of you said, here is a thread with more photos as promised!

Hope you like


MasterGideon

blackarmchair
11-30-2010, 04:03 PM
On a side note, How do Space Wolves get 21 Missile Launcher/6 Las-Cannon shots in a 1500 Pt game?

MasterGideon

Troops:

+ Grey Hunters Pack [150] x6
- 5x Grey Hunters; 1x Flamer
- Razorback: Lascannon, TwL Plasmagun

+ Long Fangs Pack [140] x3
- 1x Pack Leader
- 5x Long Fangs with Rocket Launchers

Comes out to 1320pts. It's the shell of the standard razorwolf list. :)

Fun stuff

MasterGideon
12-01-2010, 12:09 PM
Wow that pretty interesting list....why did I stop playing space wolves in 2nd ed!


MasterGideon

blackarmchair
12-01-2010, 01:09 PM
Wolves are nasty.

I play the razorwolf list for funzies sometimes but there really are better builds (not that lascannon/rocket spam isn't disgusting).

Especially after the new core rulebook FAQ I'm really getting into running thunderwolf cav. 3+ cover save? Yes please!

MasterGideon
12-01-2010, 06:10 PM
Yea my gaming group friends the las/missile wolf list is easy to beat, so I said if and when I end up doing a space wolf army, I will play his guard haha!


MasterGideon

blackarmchair
12-01-2010, 10:05 PM
Yeah razorspam is a good list but it can be done more effectively by an IG army.

I just enjoy the versatility of Space Wolves.

MasterGideon
01-20-2011, 07:39 AM
Hello all

Its me again, after reading the new FAQ regarding Dark Angels I have totally rewritten my Throne of Skulls List:

So here is the final thing:

HQ:

Belial w/TH/SS. 130Pts

Troops

Deathwing Command Squad (1xLC, 3xTH/SS,1XSB/PW, 1xCyclone Missile Launcher, Apothecary) 265 Pts

5 Man Tactical Squad sgt w/Bolt Pistol/Chain Sword, 1x Melta Gun & Razorback w/Twin Linked Heavy Bolters. 150 Pts

5 Man Tactical Squad sgt w/Bolt Pistol/Chain Sword, 1x Melta Gun & Razorback w/Twin Linked Heavy Bolters. 150 Pts

5 Man Tactical Squad sgt w/Bolt Pistol/Power Fist, 1x Melta Gun & Razorback w/Twin Linked Heavy Bolters. 175 Pts

Fast Attack

Land Speeder w/Multi Melta & TML. 75pts
Land Speeder w/Multi Melta & TML. 75Pts
Land Speeder w/Multi Melta & TML. 75Pts

Heavy Support

Land Raider Crusader w/Extra Armour 265 Pts
Vindicator w/Hunter Killer 140pts

Commnets?