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HarlekissofDeath
11-28-2010, 11:05 PM
Well I don't know if I am putting my neck on the chopping block or not by asking this, but why is spam something everyone on the internet does?
I look at all the army lists that there are, and I see alot of the same thing copy and pasted. Earlier this year I found this site and I played just regular Eldar. Now I would look to see what Eldar players were posting as their army builds, and guess what it was, the same thing over and over again. Eldrad for the HQ and or Seer council, three 5 man squads of fire dragons, and then two to four 5 man squads of dire avengers in wave serpents, or small squads of jet bikes, and then some fire prisms for the heavy support.
I am playing Dark Eldar now too since I was interested in the army when I first got into 40k, but the models looked like something out of grandma's backside. Now that they have a new codex and a new range of models I find that there is so much goodness to be had in that codex that to limit ones self to just a few of the models in it is doing the army a disservice. All I see for army lists for the Dark Eldar are either alot of wyches or warriors or wracks for the troop choice, and then trueborn for the elite, and either the duke with some haemonculi, or the baron with some haemonculi, and fill in the rest with whatever.
What about bringing a mixed army showing the whole that is the Dark Eldar. I mean using something of everything from the codex, because there are soo many choices. I wish I could squeeze more into the points that I have access to.
I'm not ripping on anyone's list, or using any of the choices in the codex because they all rock, and because I think they are all so amazing that I think it is depressing to see a list with 4 squads of just one kind of unit. I have a 1500, 1850, and a 2500 point lists, and in all of those the only unit I have duplicated is I have 2 haemonculi (one has a webway portal, the other has a venomed blade, and I have two 10 man squads of warriors (one has a blaster, and splinter cannon and is in a raider, the other has a dark lance and is on foot), then I have 2 Ravagers. But from there I have trueborn, incubi, mandrakes, wyches, reaver jetbikes, hellions, and a cronos pain engine, and a succubus. I've had about 11 battles with my dark eldar army and each time I play whether it is win, draw, or lose I analyze what went well and what didn't. Sometimes the dice just aren't rolling in my favor and sometimes they are okay and other times they are on fire. But I think my list has a good mix of the Dark Eldar codex and it has a good all comers ability to it, by being able to answer armor and infantry.
(Just a side comment, I haven't looked too hard but I don't believe I have seen anyone with a wych squad with the haywire grenades. Which if you want a combination of the best of both worlds in one package that's it. A 15 man wych squad with haywire grenades coming out of a portal will destroy armor and infantry alike). If you are looking for a beastly anti death star unit grab 8-10 incubi and sic them on the baddest unit your enemy has and watch them cleave through them like a hot knife through butter, or a 5 man squad of trueborn in a venom upgraded with 2 splinter cannons, and 2 guys inside with splinter cannons and the other 3 with shard carbines, and watch the squad mulch everything they come across.
But enough of my rant. I don't think my way of thinking is superior to anyone else, I'm just saying look at the big wonderful books called codexes with a fresh new look and look at everything and don't rule something out because the internet says it sucks, or if you are going to hold your own against any and every army in the world that you have to have 1 unit spammed to the max. Not everyone you play is going to be a leafblower list.
In the end we are all playing with toy soldiers and hopefully having fun while we do it. :p

Flammenwerfer13
11-29-2010, 12:11 AM
It depends on some armies if you you'll get spam. Some codex's just don't have more viable units in their books then a few units. Take SM or Sister codex you'll find the power armour squads almost always in there and rarely any other troop choices used. By no means am i defending spam list, far from it. It just depends on the intent of the army build. Usually you'll see novices and those who only live on the internet using "spam" list.

Each player has a certain style and they have different views of what they want to pull off in their list.

I won't worry about spam list so much as i would worry about the latest exploitation of the FAQ or Rule entry that have a clear intent but poor wordings. The Doom of Malanti comes to mind the retardness that the intertubes will put out or the current BS over Hive Tyrants now not being able to give +1 to reserves even though it states as long as he's alive and not if he's on the table.

BuFFo
11-29-2010, 12:12 AM
Well I don't know if I am putting my neck on the chopping block or not by asking this, but why is spam something everyone on the internet does?

Oh, many reasons...


I look at all the army lists that there are, and I see alot of the same thing copy and pasted.

Lets go over a few of the main reasons...

1) People are not generally intuitive, inventive or original. Most people are just sheep. This is true for games like 40k and Magic the gathering.

It is better, in the minds of this kind of person, to see what 'everyone' is doing, and follow suit. If it seems to be working, then it will work for me! And this couldn't be further from the truth, as each person should learn what units they are best t using, instead of just parroting online lists.

2) Money. People want bang for their bucks. Why buy unit X when people online say it dies on turn 1 100% of the time, when you can buy unit Y and have it do something? Sometimes this is true. Sometimes, there are just lame units that are a waste of money. Why buy a unit of Vespids for Tau when you can buy 40 Warriors for the same price?

3) Tournaments. People confuse 40k for a tournament game where winning is the only/main goal of the hobby. People online treat 40k as if it is like Magic the Gathering or Warmachine, where fun takes a back seat to rules and regulations.

Years ago, you could play what was called 'big games'. If you want to do it now a days, you can only do it "officially" through Apocalypse.

For example, at my local store, we had an Apocalypse day where a bunch of games were played. One person was able to get his hands on 6 Blood Thirsters (2 of which were Demon Prince Proxies). No one had an issue with him running the Blood thirster BLood Bath with 6 models, when the formation calls for 8 models. Why? Because we just want to play for fun, and none of us take the game seriously. He had issues doing this because ONE person wouldn't let him do it, the guy running the event. He claimed it wasn't official and that he needed to buy 8 bloodthirsters if he wanted to do it.

Years ago, in the 90's, this mentality didn't exist. You played big games, and that was it.

With everything needing to be 'official' in the minds of your average internet robot poster, cut and paste lists are a safe bet you are doing something official.

4) People online are lemmings by default.


Earlier this year I found this site and I played just regular Eldar. Now I would look to see what Eldar players were posting as their army builds, and guess what it was, the same thing over and over again. Eldrad for the HQ and or Seer council, three 5 man squads of fire dragons, and then two to four 5 man squads of dire avengers in wave serpents, or small squads of jet bikes, and then some fire prisms for the heavy support.

These kind of players are called WAAC players. They will Win At All Costs, even at the expense of fun. If you suggest taking warp Spiders, these people spit on your ideas like you just crawled out of the gutter.

Lack of imagination. Lack of intuition.


All I see for army lists for the Dark Eldar are either alot of wyches or warriors or wracks for the troop choice, and then trueborn for the elite, and either the duke with some haemonculi, or the baron with some haemonculi, and fill in the rest with whatever.

Well, you listed just about the only Troop choices for Dark Eldar. Thats like faulting Necrons for taking Warriors, or Tau for taking Fire Warriors... lol.

Take it from me, all these 'experts' on DE are full of crap. They are MEQ band-wagoners who see 'Feel no Pain' and think that's all they need to win with Dark Eldar. These are the tools who will be selling their DE models on eBay in a month because they can't win any games.

You need to take a look at my Blog.

http://awesomesaucestudio.blogspot.com/

I am running down all the Dark Eldar units to see how they work, what they can do, and how much fun they can be on the table top.


(Just a side comment, I haven't looked too hard but I don't believe I have seen anyone with a wych squad with the haywire grenades. Which if you want a combination of the best of both worlds in one package that's it. A 15 man wych squad with haywire grenades coming out of a portal will destroy armor and infantry alike).

I am not a fan of these grenades, but I am going to give them a try in a couple of games to see how they work.


If you are looking for a beastly anti death star unit grab 8-10 incubi and sic them on the baddest unit your enemy has and watch them cleave through them like a hot knife through butter, or a 5 man squad of trueborn in a venom upgraded with 2 splinter cannons, and 2 guys inside with splinter cannons and the other 3 with shard carbines, and watch the squad mulch everything they come across.

Dark Eldar actually requires skill. There are NO deathstar units in the book. You need to use the entire army to win. You can't crutch yourself with 3+ armor saves, Nob Squads, Lash of Submission, Plagie Marines or Seer Councils. Incubi are actually weaker than Tactical Marines.


In the end we are all playing with toy soldiers and hopefully having fun while we do it. :p

Some people take the game too seriously to consider their models toys...

These sad people are not GW hobbyists, they are GW customers. Big difference between the two, lol :)

HarlekissofDeath
11-29-2010, 08:00 PM
I do agree with you buffo on many points, and I'd like to clarify that just like you said there isn't an answer all in the Dark eldar codex. I meant that if planned correctly the incubi can cleave through anything, but it comes down to skill and not necessariely what you have in your army list.
I know the dark eldar only have wyches and warriors for troop options, and wracks with haemonculus or hellions with the barrion, but what I mean isn't the fact that you have 2 or more of a single unit type, but that each of those units are identical. like 4 10 man squads of warriors with 2 blasters and a dark lance each, instead of a combination of the different options avaliable for each unit. Like one unit with just a dark lance, or another with 2, one a squad of 10, and a squad of 15. there are many different variables to be had. Like I have two 10 man squads of warriors, one is in a raider with a splinter cannon, and a blaster, that way they can move and still shoot. I have another 10 man unit of warrios on foot with a dark lance, so they can camp on an objective, and shoot the dark lance because they aren't moving every turn.
I have a15 man squad of wyches with one hydra gauntlets, and one impaler and shardnet, with a hekatrix and agoniser, and haywire grenades. but then i have 10 man that I change up the combination with depending on the battle.
So the point of this rant, is that though you might have 4 squads of marines or ork boys or whatever, they don't to look like replicas. Mix it up:p

BuFFo
11-29-2010, 09:13 PM
Paragraphs, please!