2000 Nids

[Bud]

Hey there,

This is my first post on the BoLS forum, I've recently collected a swarm of Nids and I'm currently assembling them. I've been fiddling with lists the past few months while I put my models together. I am not a tournament player, I tend to play friendly games more than anything. However, I try to make balanced all-comer lists as I feel that is what I'm strongest with. I would try to use this at a tournament though, and would love to hear thoughts on its competitiveness.

Here is my 2000 point Nid list, please feel free to give criticism and/or feedback on this list and my tactics/strategy (see below).

2000 point Tyranids
HQ (290 points)
Hive Tyrant w/Bonesword and Lash Whip, Scything Talons, Paroxysm, Leech Essence
2 Tyrant Guard w/Scything Talons

ELITES (290 points)
3 Zoanthropes

2 Venomthropes

TROOPS (770 points)
6 Warriors w/Scything Talons, Devourers, 1x Barbed Strangler, Adrenal Glands

10 Genestealers

18 Termagants

20 Hormagaunts w/Adrenal Glands

20 Hormagaunts w/Toxin Sacs

FAST ATTACK (210 points)
6 Raveners w/Scything Talons, Rending Claws

HEAVY SUPPORT
Carnifex w/2x Twin-Linked Devourers w/Brainleech Worms

Trygon Prime w/Adrenal Glands

TOTALS
2000 points / 90 models


Tactics and Strategy
DEPLOYMENT
I plan on using my army split into 2 swarms with the Genestealers outflanking. The main swarm of the army will consist of the Hive Tyrant and Guard, Trygon Prime, both Hormagaunt units and the Venomthropes to provide cover and defense. This main swarm will start in the center (or close to) of my deployment zone. I have 2 synapse creatures and 5+ cover on all my gaunts and monstrous creatures. My Venomthropes will have a 4+ cover from hiding behind the Tyrgon/Tyrant. The 2nd swarm will start on either the left or right side depending on army deployment/table setup. They will consist of the Warriors, Termagants, Carnifex and Raveners. This swarm has a lot of shooting and will hopefully beable to wipe a unit or close to it on the 2nd turn. The Raveners will try and assault anything it can by the 2nd turn. The Zoanthropes will be setup wherever they will be most useful, or with the 2nd swarm if nothing looks appealing for added synapse strength. The Genestealers will outflank and hopefully arrive by turn 2 or 3. Either is fine with me.

TURN 1
The main swarm will run on their first turn and prepare for a massed assault on the 2nd turn. The 2nd swarm will also run to put the pressure on and cause my opponent to have a lot of threats on the next turn. The Zoanthropes will move up and Warp Blast a troop unit or a Lance a vehicle if in range. The Genestealers remain in reserve waiting to outflank. I will weather the storm of fire from my opponent, hopefully my venomthropes will provide enough of a distraction or cover for my main swarm. The 2nd swarm will be providing cover for each other (Gaunts in the front, Warriors, Fex/Raveners) except for the Termagants, they will get shot to bits but are a mere 90 points and you only need 1 to capture an objective. I will be in my opponents face and will have 3-4 (both Hormies, Raveners and possibly Stealers) units in charge range (even if my opponent doesn't move) by the next turn. Hopefully this will cause my opponent to lose focus on the real threats and cause him to shoot too many targets and not concentrate his fire.

TURN 2
The main swarm will be looking to get into my opponents face this turn. The Tyrant will either Leech Essence (if he lost a wound) or Paroxsym a unit (that the Hormies want to charge) while advancing behind the Hormagaunts. The Trygon will shoot with its Pulse to soften up a target for one of the Hormagaunt squads and the Venomthropes will run to try to stay within 6" of the Hormagaunts if possible, otherwise they will hide behind the Prime and Tyrant for cover. The Hormagaunts with AG's will assault a troop unit (not in cover if possible) or if no targets are available they will assault a transport, trying to swarm it so its passengers cannot get out if they manage to glance it to death. The 2nd Hormagaunt unit with TS's will charge a light infantry unit. The 2nd swarm will move and shoot this turn. The Warriors, Termagants and Carni will concentrate fire on a single squad, trying to wipe them out or severly damage them. The Raveners will fly past them and assault a seperate squad or vehicle. The Zoanthropes will do their thing, most likely shooting at a vehicle. If the Stealers arrive they will try and get stuck in with a Fleet move and Charge (13" to 18" threat).

TURNS 3+
At this point, its too hard to accurately predict what I will do. A lot will depend on how badly I've been shot up, how assaults have gone and all that. However, the game plan will be to use the Termagants as an objectiver grabber in either the midfield or even my own deployment zone. The Warriors will try and grab a midfield objective or one on a wide flank. They will try any assault and troops or vehicles they come across as they have AG's which can damage most vehicles. The Carnifex and Raveners will do their thing and try and cause as much havoc/carnage as possible on their flank with the Warriors/Termagants. However, the Carnifex and Tyrgon are my 2 heavy hitters and will be targeting any Land Raiders or equivalents if they can catch them. The Tyrant and Guard will hit any medium to heavy infantry or vehicles they come across. The Stealers will march on turn 2 or 3 and try and get stuck in right away. I will use them as heavy infantry killers, or hunt a tank if no other targets are available. I won't be trying to take an objective with them as I plan on smashing them into as much as I can, causing as much damage as possible. The 2 Hormagaunt units will try and smash any troops falling out of vehicles as possible. Trying to grab midfield or my opponents objectives if they're still alive. My Tryant and Prime should be stuck in by turn 3 providing the Hormagaunts with a resurgence as they'll probably be wittled down by then. The Venomthropes will probably be dead by turn 1 or 2 but they would have done their job if thats the case. The Zoanthropes will do their thing and target vehicles first, and medium to heavy infantry second.

WRAP UP
So that's my army list, tactics and stratgey. Let me know what you think!

Thanks,
Bud

[Ghoulio]

Most of the units you have in your army are ones that I gravitate to myself. Having said that there are a couple of things to think about when running them.

1) Tyranid Warriors - You will be amazed at just how little this unit will do considering the massive investment in the unit. They arent really very good in hand to hand to considering the fact that they cant beat armor. Adrenal Glands will help a bit, but not much. Since they are only BS 3 their shooting wont be all that great. 15 devourer shots, 7-8 will hit and 3-4 will wound with a marine making all but 1 save...if you play by averages. Not great for a unit that costs 220+pts. I find if you run warriors you really have to commit to one style. Either throw a prime in there and give them all Deathspitters and have at least 6 warriors + Prime - OR - give them lashwhips/boneswords and toxin sacs. You will find the later option will kill considerably more :)

2) Hormagaunts - I would give both units toxin sacs. AG on them really isnt great

3) Anti Tank - I would consider dropping the Zoans and getting 2 units of 2 Hive Guard. Almost the same cost and will be far more efffective against everything that isnt a land raider.

4) Genestealers - I used to run them bare, preferring to go for volume over power (ie adding toxin sacs) but after trying them with Toxin Sacs I gotta say I cant go back. It is nuts how much better they are. I would rather take 8 Toxin Stealers instead of 10 normal ones. Also, if you plan on doing ANY reserve shinanigans you gotta throw Hive Commander onto your Tyrant. It also allows one other unit to outflank as well, so you could make a great double hitting combo of your stealers and a big unit of hormagaunts coming in on the flanks :)

5) Trygon - The only reason to run a Trygon Prime is because you are low on synapse. If you feel you have enough drop the prime option and save yourself the points. Very rarely will you use his shooting attack as you will always be fleeting with him.

Other things to consider

Everyone is going to tell you to take a Tervigon, and after spending 6 months of refusing to use it I gotta say they are just too good for their points. Best troop unit in our book, maybe even the game. One of those things where you cant figure out how it made it past play testing lol. If you do take one just give it Catalyst and toxin sacs. No need to spend any more points on it.

I love the Carnifex btw. I use a unit of 2 of these guys and they are stupid fun to use and have won me games despite being known for sucking huge wind in this edition :)

[Fizyx]

Just a few things before I leave for work:

I will also recommend Hive Guard, but you should not drop the Zoanthropes to bring them. Just one unit of two will help you against moderate AV11 spam.

Drop the Genestealers to 8 and put on toxin sacs and maybe scything talons. Toxin sacs are absolutely key as they allow you to re-roll for an extra chance at getting that 6 to wound.

Lose the Termagants. Yes, they are cheap, but you could do better things with the points and not give up a kill point.

I do not like Raveners in this codex. They just can't punch through enough for what they cost. They are incredibly vulnerable to any and all S8, which seriously limits your assault choices when your opponent has a power fist in each squad. You have more than enough CC goodness with the hormogaunts/genestealers/warriors. You do not need another.

I absolutely love warriors. They are big and mean and slow, but they get the job done if you use them right. That being said, without bone swords they just can not put through the damage warranted by their enormous point cost. I would drop the unit to 5 and lose the Barbed Strangler. Furthermore, they are still incredibly fragile, especially when it comes to S8. The best thing I can recommend is to add a Tyranid prime with a lash-whip and bonesword. If you happen to come across S8 you can put up to two of those wounds on him without having to worry about losing 3 wounds of warriors for each power-fist wound.

As long as you keep the hormies near the tyrant you have no need for more synapse, so drop the Trygon Prime to a regular dude.

And now I need to go, I'll add more later.

[Bud]

Here is my all-comers competitive list, revised from the all-comers casual list (see above).

Give me your thoughts on its potential to do well in a tournament enviornment. I need to buy the Hive Guard and anothe box of Termagants to use this army legitmately. However, I plan on getting Hive Guard, as well as a unit of Termagants w/Devourers anyways.

Here it is;

2,000 Competitve Nids
HQ (290 points)
Hive Tyrant w/Bonesword and Lashwhip, Scything Talons, Paroxysm, Leech Essence

2 Tyrant Guard

ELITES (390 points)
2 Hive Guard

2 Venomthropes

3 Zoanthropes

TROOPS (670 points)
10 Genestealers w/Toxin Sacs

18 Termagants w/Devourers

20 Hormagaunts w/Adrenal Glands

20 Hormagaunts w/Toxin Sacs

FAST ATTACK (210 points)
6 Raveners w/Scything Talons and Rending Claws

HEAVY SUPPORT (440 points)
Carnifex w/2x Twin-Linked Devourers w/Brainleech Worms

Trygon Prime w/Adrenal Glands

TOTALS
2000 Points
86 Models

I look forward to some feedback,

Thanks,
Bud

[Bud]

Hey there, I've got a few questions I'm hoping somebody can answer. I haven't played any games with my bugs yet, I hope to change that on tuesday. But I've come across some things I'd like to clarify before I get in a game.

1) If I take Hive Commander on a Hive Tyrant. Can I decide to outflank with a unit of Warriors with a Prime attatched to the squad?

2) How exactly do Lash Whips work when I assault a unit into cover? Do we both strike simulateneously as the cover reduces me to initiative 1, and the lash whips reduce my target to initiative 1?

3) This question is regarding Devourers and Barbed Stranglers dealing wounds simultaneously into a unit.
a)If I shoot with my Tyranid Warriors, dealing 1 unsaved wound with a Devourer and 1 unsaved wound with my Barbed Strangler. Does the unit take a Pinning check with a -1 LD?
b) If they pass/fail that pinning check and took 25% casualties do they also have to take a Morale check with the -1 LD?

4) This question is regarding assaulting multiple units (I've never come across this with my Iron Warriors ;P). Which way would it work;
a) I move closest model to unit A. I declare a 2nd assault on unit B. I move closest model to unit B. Then remaing models pile-in to either unit A or B.
OR
b) I move closest model to unit A. I move pile-in models until i decide to declare a 2nd assault on unit B. I move closest model to unit B. I move all remaining models into unit B.

(Obviously I must remain in conherency, I know this.)

Thanks,
Bud

[Ghoulio]

1) Just like a spore pod you SHOULD be able to attach him and outflank, but like every other last ruling to our book I would say you gotta go with the counter-intuitive approach and say no, he can't join then outflank

2) Both models in that combat are fighting at init 1. Remember that it is only models in base to base with the creature that has the lash whips.

3) Devourers LD penalty only works towards morale tests, not pinning tests. So, if you do a wound with the Devs, then do enough wounds with the strangler to make them break, then yes, they do so at -1.

4) All your answers are in the main rule book under multi charges. Basically if you can reach both units with the charge and remain in coherency then you can put the models in any way you like (from my understanding).

Hope that helps!

[Bud]

Ghoulio,

Thanks a lot, I appreciate the answers to my questions.

Did you have any criticism on my more competitive all-comers list?

Thanks again,
Bud

[Tynskel]

as for #4. You can charge multiple units, as long as ALL other criteria have been fulfilled. (maintain coherency, cannot reach an unengaged enemy model, try to get as close as possible).

You do not declare assault against a second unit. Engaging a second unit is just a circumstance.

[Cyndr]

Have you considered putting your Dakka-fex in a spore? Could cause some havoc in the back lines if you can place him well. Spore + TL deathspitter costs just a little more than your prime upgrade on the trygon (which you might consider dropping), and could give you another unit that you can use to throw your opponent off guard, and potentially force some tough decisions. Running him up behind the stealers that outflanked could be a scary proposition. Might even be able to pop a transport so they can get to the juicy insides.

[Cavscout]

As with most other people, I find ravenors not worth the point cost. I would rather run warriors with at least dual boneswords/scything talons, or lash boneswords/scything talons. I do not like to run my warriors with devs if I set them up for CC. The problem is that i'm to tempted to shoot, when they should be running every turn to get into CC. Boneswords just murder power armored units. This would be a perfect unit to outflank via Hive commander to make your opponent bunch his units to the center.