PDA

View Full Version : Tactical Squads in Land Raiders



exoduster18
08-26-2009, 09:59 AM
mkerr has it listed in one of the lists that he came up with that he played at BOLScon that he had the Tactical Squads deployed in the Land Raiders. I don;t see this as being listed in the transport options for the Tactical Squads in the C:SM. Is this an Apocalypse rule or is this allowed in "normal" 40K? Just a little curious as I have never come across it.

TheKingElessar
08-26-2009, 10:00 AM
The Land Raiders were Heavy Support choices.

exoduster18
08-26-2009, 10:14 AM
I understand that they are heavy support choices. What I was confused about was using them as transports if they are a heavy supports choice. That is what confuses me and I don't know the rules governing that.....This is the source of my confusion. LOL. Thanks for the answer though.

EmperorEternalXIX
08-26-2009, 10:37 AM
There are plenty of vehicles in the game that have transport capacity but are not dedicated transports. The valkyrie is a fairly common one, for example. Less common is the SM's Land Speeder Storm.

Rules-wise, you are allowed to deploy any vehicle that is not a DEDICATED transport, with a unit inside of it at your discretion. Pretty smart putting a tactical squad in there, as that means that land raider can now take objectives...

As long as a vehicle has a transport capacity, it can carry models and be deployed carrying models. DEDICATED transports have the difference of only being purchased with the unit in question, but anyone can still ride in it (depending on your codex...). Dedicated transports are, however, only allowed to be deployed with the unit that bought them inside. But there is nothing stopping you from deploying a unit in place to get in the transport turn 1, and to put the empty vehicle nearby, while the unit you bought it for is miles away (I know of someone who has six scouts get in a razorback he buys for a devastator squad, for example).

exoduster18
08-26-2009, 11:00 AM
Ok. I got it now. That was my confusion as it wasn't written specifically in the codex that I saw anywhere....and I don't yet have the MRB (It is on order!! LOL.)

Old_Paladin
08-26-2009, 07:44 PM
Emperor is close, but a little off.
A unit with a dedicated transport (and only that unit) may start the game inside that transport; although any other unit may mount it later.

With other vehicles with transport capacity, NO unit may begin the game mounted INSIDE of it; although may mount it as usual once the game starts.

Lord Inquisitor
08-26-2009, 07:53 PM
Does that mean that my Valkyrie with Vets in it can't outflank the Vets?

Old_Paladin
08-26-2009, 08:20 PM
Does that mean that my Valkyrie with Vets in it can't outflank the Vets?

Yup, that's the rule.
The outflanking rules say that a dedicated transport may outflank with its parent unit (and the parent unit must be inside of it).

Valk's aren't dedicated (as far as I know).
In fact, the Vets couldn't start the game in the Valk's at all; they'd have to start near it then jump in of the first turn.

Ork players know what I'm talking about; putting down 60 boyz then picking them up to put in 'Wagons.

Old_Paladin
08-26-2009, 08:33 PM
Hmm...
In hindsight, I might be suffering 'old edition syndrome'
There's no place that I can find, which talks about deploying seperate units seperately (ie. deploy troops, then heavy's, then fast, etc); or starting inside or outside of transports.

It's possible that units can start in general transports; in which case I apologize to EmperorEternalXIX.
However, a Valk still CANNOT outflank, it's clear that only dedicated transports can outflank.

mkerr
08-26-2009, 08:48 PM
mkerr has it listed in one of the lists that he came up with that he played at BOLScon that he had the Tactical Squads deployed in the Land Raiders.

It was in the Lucky 13 event at BoLSCon. I took my Relictors with 4 Landraiders (3 heavy choices and 1 dedicated transport for a Terminator squad). I deployed my Landraiders and then embarked my Tactical Squads (I skipped the step of putting the Tacticals on the table to save time). Then I moved the Landraiders - it works pretty well.

Being able to use dedicated transports from another unit is a lot of fun. My favorite was putting 16 Battle Sisters in a Landraider Crusader, lol.

-- mkerr

TheKingElessar
08-26-2009, 09:09 PM
A Valk can too Outflank Vets inside.

Exitus Acta Probat
08-26-2009, 09:16 PM
Old Paladin:
A Valk may outflank as it has the scouts rule within it's own set.

Also. as far as deploying in a 'port, you are thinking of the restriction that ONLY the unit that a dedicated 'port is purchased for may deploy within it.

Scouts; pg 76 brb, "this rule also confers a special outflank move to units of scouts that are kept in reserve"

Old_Paladin
08-26-2009, 09:18 PM
A Valk can too Outflank Vets inside.

This is a very common tactic I've heard of people doing; but please site somes rules, not opinion without support.
A chimera can, no problem; since it's their dedicated transport.
Does a Valk also have the scout rule, or something that I'm just missing?

Edit: Thanks Exitus, thats what I wanted to know (not a guard player, haven't seen the codex played).
I know the dedicated rule; but look at the non-dedicated. Spencer (from 40K Radio), plays that his troops don't start in a general transport. But Emperor has a point that there's no rules (one way or the other) about infantry starting in a 'free' transport.

Aventine
08-26-2009, 10:36 PM
A Valkyrie has scout as one of its rules. The vets do not have scout or infiltrate, but can outflank by deploying in the transport.

exoduster18
08-27-2009, 06:12 AM
mkerr - If I may borrow the tactic......LOL.

I always figured I could, but myself and those that I play are fairly new to all of this. So, I had just been placing the Land Raider that I have down on the table and letting it whoop @$$ on it's own....

Now that I can drop my Counts as Pedro and Counts as Chaplain Cassius in it with a Tactical Squad or my Sternguard, things are going to get funner.

EmperorEternalXIX
08-27-2009, 01:14 PM
Edit: Thanks Exitus, thats what I wanted to know (not a guard player, haven't seen the codex played).
I know the dedicated rule; but look at the non-dedicated. Spencer (from 40K Radio), plays that his troops don't start in a general transport. But Emperor has a point that there's no rules (one way or the other) about infantry starting in a 'free' transport. In the big rulebook on page 94 under the 6th paragraph. It talks about rules for deploying units inside transports from reserve; I would assume if it is legal to have Pedro Kantor, Vulkan the green *******, and 10 sternguard with combi-flamers in a land raider who all arrive as one unit in the vehicle off of one roll, it is legal to similarly deploy these units at the onset of the game. The paragraph in question also specifies separate rules for dedicated transports, so it is clear that it is referencing non-dedicated ones.

I forget where, but I believe elsewhere in the rules it says that you must tell your opponents what is in every transport as you deploy anyway -- again implying that it's perfectly legal to deploy a Land Raider with a tac squad in it, for example.

Besides. If it weren't legal it'd be pretty stupid, don't you think?

Every army would just deploy next to the doors if they had turn 1 and just hop in; it'd be pointless and do nothing but waste time deploying models you were just going to pick up again in a second. Not to mention the guy who had turn 2 would be pretty screwed with some costly squads standing outside the doors of the vehicles they wanted to ride in.

The only illegal deployment of units inside transports, is when it's a dedicated transport -- which according to the page I just read, can only ever be deployed empty or carrying the unit it was bought with.

Mike Dunford
08-27-2009, 02:17 PM
A Valkyrie has scout as one of its rules. The vets do not have scout or infiltrate, but can outflank by deploying in the transport.

Interestingly, the rules say that a unit with scout that's deployed within a dedicated transport confers scout on the transport. But it says nothing about the reverse - transports with scout and units without.

EmperorEternalXIX
08-27-2009, 02:54 PM
I think it would be pretty stupid if it didn't apply. Why give it transport capacity and the ability to drop off the guys the way it does, if it isn't allowed to outflank and carry them?

Culven
08-27-2009, 03:13 PM
Interestingly, the rules say that a unit with scout that's deployed within a dedicated transport confers scout on the transport. But it says nothing about the reverse - transports with scout and units without.
I think that the logic is the Transport is using the rules, the Embarked unit is just along for the ride. So, the Dedicated Transport must be able to gain Scout, otherwise it cannot be used. The Valkyrie already has Scout, so it doesn't matter whether the unit onboard has it.

TheKingElessar
08-27-2009, 06:00 PM
Exactly.

Mike Dunford
08-27-2009, 08:01 PM
That is what I figured, and I wouldn't dream of objecting to someone playing it that way. Not being able to outflank would make the whole air cav effect they were going for totally vanish. But I wonder what would happen if a rules lawyer tried to argue the point at a tourney.