2000pt Blood Angels for DE

[Son of Guilliman]

well, my buddy is going to be ordering his DE this week, so i was wanting to get a preemptive start on some army lists to counter all his twisted gaydar ways. After a few builds going all assaulty and then realizing that my overly expensive Death Co. would never even get to swing, i decided that maybe a more shooty path might be best. so this is what i came up with, let me know what you think.

2000 Pts - Blood Angels Roster

1 Captain Tycho @ 175 pts

9 Sternguard Veteran Squad @ 280 pts (Bolter x8; Combi-Meltagun x1)
. . 1 Sergeant (Bolter; Power Fist)

5 Assault Squad @ 231 pts (Unit Type: Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Remove Jump Packs; Bolt Pistol x5; Chainsword x5; Plasmagun; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Descent of Angels; The Red Thirst; Razorback)
. . 1 Assault Marine with Plasmagun (Plasmagun)
. . 1 Sergeant ( Bolt Pistol; Power Fist x1)
. . 1 Razorback (Twin Linked Assault Cannon)

5 Assault Squad @ 231 pts (Unit Type: Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Remove Jump Packs; Bolt Pistol x5; Chainsword x5; Plasmagun; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Descent of Angels; The Red Thirst; Razorback)
. . 1 Assault Marine with Plasmagun (Plasmagun)
. . 1 Sergeant ( Bolt Pistol; Power Fist x1)
. . 1 Razorback (Twin Linked Assault Cannon)

5 Assault Squad @ 231 pts (Unit Type: Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Remove Jump Packs; Bolt Pistol x5; Chainsword x5; Plasmagun; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Descent of Angels; The Red Thirst; Razorback)
. . 1 Assault Marine with Plasmagun (Plasmagun)
. . 1 Sergeant ( Bolt Pistol; Power Fist x1)
. . 1 Razorback (Twin Linked Assault Cannon)

9 Devastator Squad @ 300 pts (Missile Launcher x4)
. . 1 Sergeant
. . 1 Razorback (Twin Linked Lascannon)

9 Tactical Squad @ 280 pts (Plasmagun; Lascannon)
. . 1 Sergeant
. . 1 Razorback (Twin Linked Assault Cannon)

1 Predator @ 135 pts (Autocannon; Lascannon)
1 Predator @ 135 pts (Autocannon; Lascannon)


Total Roster Cost: 1998

put Tycho with the sternguard, use tac squad as a babysitter. Sit back and just pour the shots on, then use the assault squads to mop up.

[ColonelElibas]

No Baal Predators? None? Not even against +5, T3 Elves?

I thought Razorbacks could only carry 6 models, so how are you going to stuff 10 Devastators and 10 Tactical marines in them?

Las Cannons against Dark Eldar are overkill, just take assault cannons.

[Son of Guilliman]

i am not gonna put them in the razorbacks, using the transports as mobile fire platforms, and if need be, i can always combat squad and stuff some dudes in there. Baals may not be a bad idea though......

[plawolf]

Your points cost is off.

A 5 man assault squad with a plasma gun and power fist and razorback only comes to 195 pints.

I also question how good an idea it is to spend 90pts for a razorback when you can get a bare bones Baal for 115pts.

But more importantly, I really cannot see how you could spend 180pts on two razorbacks and not buy any priests? These are almost a must for a BA army.

I also don't see how your sternguards are planning to get into the thick of the fighting. I would consider getting them a drop pod, attached Tycho and a Priest and you have a very solid and survivable firebase you can drop anywhere on the table.

Also, remember you don't have to buy extra men for the sternguard in 5 men blocks, you can drop a few guys off this squad if you need to free up points for something else. Same thing with the devastators.

Something to consider if you want to maximize your shooting is that sternguards can take heavy weapons. I sometimes use them as a mini-devastator squad with two lascannons or plasmacannons so I can forgo the devastator squad and free up a HS slot for something else.

You can quite easily take two 5 men sternguard squads with two lascannons or plasmacannons each, put them in rhinos and take advantage of the fast vehicle rule and use them like a cheap twin-las razorback to move 6" and still shoot the heavy weapons.

So with the 36x3 points extra you have from the assault squads, dropping the devastators and the razorback on the tac squad, you should have a fairly sizeable chuck of points to spend on priests, baals and heavy weapons on the sternguard and you still may have enough points left for another predator or vindicator.

[Splug]

You can quite easily take two 5 men sternguard squads with two lascannons or plasmacannons each, put them in rhinos and take advantage of the fast vehicle rule and use them like a cheap twin-las razorback to move 6" and still shoot the heavy weapons.This is not correct. The 'fast' rule only changes the maximum move speed of the vehicle, and the number of vehicle-mounted weapons which can be fired at various speed grades. The rule for embarked troops firing from vehicles states that embarked troops count as moving if the vehicle has moved.


Your points cost is off.

A 5 man assault squad with a plasma gun and power fist and razorback only comes to 195 pints.This looks like Army Builder output, and you're exactly right- what he's actually paying for are seven assault marines. Five normal guys, one assault marine with a plasmagun, and one sergeant with a power fist - which actually won't fit inside the razorback they've purchased. SoG, you can save yourself 36 points per squad just by dropping the number of basic assault marines down to 3, which looks like what you had planned on in the first place. ;)

You could save a few more points per squad by swapping those plasmaguns to flamers. You're not going to want to disembark to fire on the transports anyway, so you may as well hide in your razorback with an anti-infantry weapon. The flamer is amazing against T3 5+ save models - wyches lose their 4+ invul if they're not in close combat, so fire away. Sure, the plasmagun will deny FNP, but you have to roll to-hit, it's only two shots, and it'll allow a cover save. And for good measure - you can't charge if you rapid fire, where the flamer will allow you to still rush in to clean up the last few members of a squad if you need.

As an overall strategy, remember that raiders with lances are an unreliable source of anti-tank. If they can't pop transports, they can't launch assaults. Give your army that mech wall, and sit inside your tanks while burning the squishy open-topped raiders down. You should win the race to pop all their transports open 95% of games. I'd recommend flipping the tactical squad to a rhino just to have the option to jump into a bunker while the DE are still mounted. The 10 devastators are probably not necessary either - just take another auto-laser predator.

Flipping one or two razorbacks to TL-heavy flamers is probably a good move as well. It's another vehicle that can effectively fight against dark eldar infantry once they're de-meched, and it's actually quite a bit cheaper than the assault cannon razorbacks.

[Dingareth]

This guy seems to have some good advice. (http://lkhero.blogspot.com/2010/12/ydiw-1-youre-bad-at-tailoring.html)

[Tynskel]

This guy seems to have some good advice. (http://lkhero.blogspot.com/2010/12/ydiw-1-youre-bad-at-tailoring.html)

Bwahahahahahahahah!

That was funny.
However, I disagree with some of the things that he said:

Sternguard are fine: how you have built them are poor. Why combi-melta? Plasma would be more useful, if you are trying to go 'tank' busting vs Dark Eldar. Those extra shots will be more important vs vehicles with saving throws, and Plasma is the new 'melta' vs Armor 10 Open Topped. Lastly, the Sternguard have no transport, why?
Tycho: Libby, Tycho, there isn't that much to be gained by a libby. I prefer Tycho in this case: Ld 10 will be useful when he forces you to make morale checks from the poison weapons. He's also a bad MoFo.

Now for more regular critique:
As a Long time Blood Angels play, of which, who plays traditional Battle Company instead of assault marines, I would recommend some changes. I feel that it will be easier to just write a list.

1999/2000 Points

HQ 175
175 Tycho

ELITES 580
135 Sanguinary Priesthood
-Priest
-Priest, Terminator Armor
210 Terminator Squad
-5 Terminators, Hv Flamer, Chainfist
235 Sternguard
-8 Marines, 2 Combi-Plasmas, Powerfist
50 Dedicated Transport: Rhino

TROOPS 770
220 Tactical Squad
-10 Marines, Powerfist, Combi-Flamer, Flamer, Teleport Homer, Hv Bolter
45 Dedicated Transport: Drop Pod, Locator Beacon
235 Assault Squad
-10 Marines, Power Weapon, Hand Flamer, 2 Meltaguns
215 Tactical Squad
-10 Marines, Power Weapon, Plasma Pistol, Flamer, Teleport Homer, Missile Launcher
55 Dedicated Transport: Razorback

FAST ATTACK 290
145 Baal Predator
-Hv Bolter Sponsons
145 Baal Predator
-Hv Bolter Sponsons

Hv SUPPORT 184
184 Devastator Squad
-9 Marines, 3 Missile Launchers

Lots of Dakka. Still mobile. Not expecting the transports to last. The Drop Pod is there for positioning, and redundancy with bringing Terminators/Assault Marines. Do not be afraid to just have the marines drop in as a 'forward' unit, still in range of the rest of your forces. The 2 Teleport Homers grant you variability of where to bring in the Terminators; the Heavy Flamer will be your best friend, wounding on a 2+ ignoring armor. 2 Priests will aide in preventing poison weapons from destroying you. Squad transports are flexible: you could put both Tycho and a Priest with the Sternguard, or you could put a priest in the razorback, or tycho in the razorback. Any one of these will be good, and useful. You could even put the priest with the Devastators. I'd recommend having him near them, considering you will could have a combat squad and devastators close to each other.

There's easily some variations you could do:
Scout Squads with Camo Cloaks, and a Techmarine for the Bolstered Defenses. Could even take a Locator Beacon. Bike Squads--- like scout bikers, have them outflank with the Baals.

When it comes down to it, Blood Angels are underestimated when you use them the way they are supposed to be used: The most flexible of all Space Marine Forces: Not limited by doctrine, but by what works--- why do you think that Dante is the BEST Space Marine Commander since the Crusades? It is due to his flexibility where others would stick to Chapter Dogma.

[celldwellwer]

Explain how using the list. and the dev and tac can not take the razorbacks due to there size.

[Tynskel]

Explain how using the list. and the dev and tac can not take the razorbacks due to there size.

Tactical Squads can take Razorbacks: They have a special rule, combat squads, that allows them to split into two 5 man squads.

I also did explain the basics of the list.