1500pt Competitive Imperial Guard v Space Wolves

[bobdole4eva]

Hey guys, I'm planning to enter the Throne of Skulls in January, and I'm currently in the process of getting my army together. I currently own a decent number of models for both Space Wolves and Imperial Guard, and I have army list ideas for both as well. The thing is, before I go out and by the rest of my army, I need to choose which one to go for.
With that in mind, I will list my two armies here and call for a vote on the issue.

1st Army - Space Wolves

Rune Priest - Jaws of the World Wolf, Living Lightning [100]

5 Wolf Guard - 3 Power Fist and Combi-Melta, 1 Combi-Melta, 1 Chainfist, TDA, Cyclone Missile Launcher [230]

Lone Wolf - Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield [80]

8 Hunters - Meltagun, Power Weapon, Mark of the Wulfen, Rhino [190]

8 Hunters - Meltagun, Power Weapon, Mark of the Wulfen, Rhino [190]

9 Hunters - Meltagun, Power Weapon, Mark of the Wulfen, Rhino [205]

5 Hunters - Meltagun, Razorback, Lascannon [155]

Land Speeder - Multi melta, Heavy Flamer [70]

6 Long Fangs - 5 Missile Launchers [140]

6 Long Fangs - 5 Missile Launchers [140]

TOTAL: [1500]

The basic idea is to have my Wolf Guard the PFs in with my Rhino Hunters, my Wolf Guard with just a melta with the Razorback crew, and the termie with a unit of Fangs. Strategy wise I will have my Rhinos rush forward, delivering my Hunters to combat ASAP, while my Long Fangs lay down covering fire. My Lone Wolf runs up the middle, looking threatening and trying to die, while taking out something big if he can. His main function though, is as a distraction. Finally my Landspeeder deepstrikes, either flaming a unit of men or putting the hurt on a tank, whichever is most threatening, and my Razorback sits with my Long Fangs, firing its Lascannon, holding an objective if needed, and shooting any infantry that gets too close.

2nd Army - Imperial Guard

Company Command Squad - Missile Launcher, 2 Grenade Launchers, Master of Ordnance [105]
Chimera [55]

Platoon Command Squad - Missile Launcher, 2 Grenade Launchers [55]
Infantry Platoon - Missile Launcher, Grenade Launcher [70]
Infantry Platoon - Missile Launcher, Grenade Launcher [70]
Heavy Weapon Squad - 3 Lascannons [105]

Platoon Command Squad - Missile Launcher, 2 Grenade Launchers [55]
Infantry Platoon - Missile Launcher, Grenade Launcher [70]
Infantry Platoon - Missile Launcher, Grenade Launcher [70]
Heavy Weapon Squad - 3 Lascannons [105]

10 Veterans - Missile Launcher, 3 Grenade Launchers [100]
Chimera [55]

Leman Russ - Heavy Bolters [170]

Leman Russ Demolisher [165]

2 Basilisks [250]

TOTAL: [1500]

The idea with this army is to combine squads, entrench as best I can, surround my tanks with troops, and then open fire. I will use my Veterans to take objectives if need be, and I'm considering moving my other Chimera to my Platoon Command so they can move quicker onto far objectives as well. My Russ's and Basilisks will lay down a heavy template fire, while my 8 missiles, 6 Lascannons and 13 Grenade Launcher shots will shot at whatever is a threat. The Missiles and grenades can switch to template against horde armies.

So there they are, I look forward to hearing what everyone thinks, and hopefully I will have a better idea of which to invest in before I actually start buying any more models.

[ElCheezus]

No comments on the wolf list, but that IG list need some help.

Gunlines aren't really good enough anymore. In 4th they worked when there was only Fleet, and no Run. Now that infantry run, even the guys without fleet will get all up in your grill before you can shoot enough to take them down. Plus, you know, cover is everywhere. You need mobility in order to get your forces where they can support each other.

I'd honestly suggests a complete overhaul of the IG list before buying anything. There are a number of posts in the past few weeks on IG armies that have good discussions in them, I suggest reading up on those.

[BlindGunn]

Speaking about the Wolves:

Rune Priest at 1500: I don't normally use him at this level, but it's a personal preference. I usually take something more "Combat Killy!" Usually won't consider a WP until after I've taken 1 or 2 other HQ choices. Again - personal preference. Go with it and see how it fairs in battle.

Olf Guard: I wouldn't bother with a Chain Fist of the Terminator if you intend to keep it with the Long Fangs. Chain Fist is more Anti-Vehicle in CC. If you're charging a vehicle with your Long Fangs, you've done somethig wrong...

I think a Power Weapon best for the Term. If the unit gets charged, Wolf Guard can strike at regular initiative and (hopefully) thin out the assaulters before the Long Fangs are hit. If your opponent has higher initiative and you're not in cover, it won't matter anyway! Only time a Power Fist would be helpful is if you get charged by a walker. Hopefully those 10 missile launchers will stop that from happenning!

Lone Wolf on foot for a Mechanized army seems out-of-place to me. If you had units without transports, he could accompany them up the field, but on his own, he's just another target that can be ignored until he gets too close. Maybe a Wolf Guard Battle Leader or other HQ choice in Power Armour that can hitch a ride with the Grey Hunters?

GHunters - they're fine, but I like to throw in a couple of Plasma Rifles into my units. 2 shots instead of 1, good for lighter vehicles and infantry. Best used in units you want to hold the objective with. Other idea: Make them units of 10 - you can get 2 Special weapons in the squad that way. If you wanted to include Wolfguard with them, they'd have to foot march. Again - my preferences and observations - just trying to throw some ideas at you to consider.

Speeder: Fine - very popular choice.

Long Fangs: Again - fine - by themselves, a popular choice. If you could find the points, I would suggest a Lascannon in each - just for the extra punch in the event you face-off against something with Armour 14. More Razorbacks are another popular solution.

Borrow some figures, Try your list as you put forward and see how it plays. If you like it - no reason to change!

Good Luck and let us know how you go!

[WereWolf_nr]

2 Basilisks [250]


I prefer Manticores to Basilisks. More damage and more templates.

[ElCheezus]

I prefer Manticores to Basilisks. More damage and more templates.

And more points. And less AP.

Not that I don't like them, just don't try and make it black and white. Basilisk has its place, depending on the rest of the list and the metagame. Nob bikers? S 10! Land Raiders? S 10! MEQ? AP 3. Only 125 points left? Basilisk.

In this case, I don't think it meshes with the other HS. However, I think the list needs redone before getting that specific.

[lowdog]

[QUOTE=ElCheezus;110891]
Gunlines aren't really good enough anymore. In 4th they worked when there was only Fleet, and no Run. Now that infantry run, even the guys without fleet will get all up in your grill before you can shoot enough to take them down. Plus, you know, cover is everywhere. You need mobility in order to get your forces where they can support each other.
QUOTE]

I don't play guard, so I'm not sure, but he did say he was blobbing them up. If he throws Straken and/or a few Commisars in the list in lieu of increased mobility would that change your analysis?

[ElCheezus]

Blobbing up and adding commissars makes the unit a lot more resilient, and much harder to kill. However, when you get assaulted, you'll still lose. It'll just take longer. There are benefits to that, too, but either way you won't be using your ranged weapons in that squad anymore.

It's much better to spend those points on power weapons and go aggressive with the blobs instead of sitting and shooting. You get more killyness, plus you can move around, and control the field. A bunch of blobs of guardsmen that spread waay out leave very little room for the enemy to play with. If you get good at it, you can really control the field. (disclaimer: I'm not that good at it, but one of the guys at my FLGS is)

I think if you want heavy weapons, then you should get a HWS instead of burying them in a ten-man squad. That way they can shoot at things while the blobs take the CC role. It gives them more turns of using those weapons.

Straken can work, and can help in a lot of cases. He's a force multiplier, though. That is, he's great, but only *after* you have a solid force to begin with. Spend points on getting the army set up properly, and then spend the points on Straken if you have some left. If you skimp on the blobs that he's there to buff, then he's wasted.

[WereWolf_nr]

And more points. And less AP.

Not that I don't like them, just don't try and make it black and white. Basilisk has its place, depending on the rest of the list and the metagame. Nob bikers? S 10! Land Raiders? S 10! MEQ? AP 3. Only 125 points left? Basilisk.

In this case, I don't think it meshes with the other HS. However, I think the list needs redone before getting that specific.

Fair enough, though I think throwing more templates will help make up for the fact that you may not be denying armor saves on MEQ.

You do have a point about the points cost tho.