Knights of Blood 2k list

[timff8]

Okay, I've been working on, making adjustments to, and trying out this list for about six months now.
I think I've gotten to a good place with it.

2000 point list:
Reclusiarch w. crozius, power fist, jump pack

Honor Guard w. jump packs: vet with power weapon and chapter banner
vet with flamer and storm shield
2 vets with lightning claw and storm shield

2 Sanguinary priests with jump packs

Assault Squad w. jump packs: 10-man with two melta guns
Assault Squad w. jump packs: 10-man with two melta guns

Assault Squad w. jump packs: 10-man, sergeant with power fist, two flamers
Assault Squad w. jump packs: 10-man, sergeant with power fist, two flamers

Land Speeder w. heavy bolter and typhoon missile launcher

Baal predator w. flamestorm cannon and dozer blade

Bike squad: 3-man, sergeant w. combi-melta, one meltagun, attack bike with multimelta

Predator with autocannon and lascannon sponsons


I build this list under the assumption that I would be reserving everything, and then deep striking the marines and speeder and rolling the bikes and tanks on from the edges. But I also wanted to be able to start on the field, and I think it does that pretty well. I've tried multiple load-outs, but the basic core is the honor guard and 2 priests to bubble FNP and Furious Charge, and four big assault squads to claim objectives and use two speacial weapons. Everything else is just support/scenery.

Your thoughts and criticisms? They are greatly appreciated.

Tim_ff8

[Daemonette666]

You know that because they are listed in both the Blood Angels Codex and the Chaos Space Marines Codex, you can make up a list for both, and choose which you want to play.

That way you can play either good or evil depending on your mood.

[timff8]

I read their fluff in the Blood Angels 'dex first and I really didn't knkow that they are actually in the chaos book. I'm just playing them as they sound in the BA codex, which is as overly-angry marines. To me they don't sound like Renegades, just really zealous marines, like the Black Templars, that get a bad rap. They are still loyal to Baal(see the last entry in the Blood Angels timeline), so I really feel it's okay to use the codex rules.

On a side note, I am a huge fan of conversion and building my army to suit, and I really dislike it when people use one set of models to "counts as" for every codex out there. To me, its a complete abandonment of the modeling and painting aspects of the hobby. That's just my two cents, though.

So, to people who read this and thought "he's just playing his Chaos marines with the BLood Angels rules", that is entirely not true. They are built off of the concept in the BA codex, and are modelled and painted as such.

Thanks for the response,

Tim_ff8

[somerandomdude]

I feel bad for debating this here, but...




They are built off of the concept in the BA codex, and are modelled and painted as such.

That's what a lot of those "counts-as" armies intend to do. Very few out there actually make one army (say CSM) then use the exact same models to permanently play another army (SW), and then another (BA), etc. IF anyone does switch their codex, they usually do a little bit of conversion to bring it back in line with their rules to avoid confusion. But first they pick a concept they'd like to go for (just like you did). Any modeling or painting after the concept is established is not an issue or a cop-out, even if it doesn't fall in line with the codex.

A perfect example (and fairly relevant to this thread) would be a World Eaters army. They are incredibly aggressive, maybe even psychotic, and even augment themselves to cause a huge blood rage. They strike fast and strike hard, and I've also read that they utilize drop pod assaults. They have an amazingly powerful primarch, even though he loses control too much to focus, and a bloodthirsty and dangerous leader in Kharn.

So which codex should I use? The one with expensive troops that don't give you too much usefulness (only plasma pistols as weapons in a game where you need metlas, which would take away from your theme), or the codex that gets me jump infantry for striking fast with meltaguns, FNP/FC and possibly fearless throughout the army, drop pods, psychotic marines (DC) while still giving me some fun and very Khorne-like character rules (Astorath and Seth)?

Then, once you have that concept established, you can figure out the modelling you'd like to do (such as raptor jump packs on Khorne berzerkers) and get to work on the paint job. Oh, and then laugh at people who say your red marines aren't supposed to have the same rules as their red marines. :rolleyes:

What's wrong with people wanting to use the fluff that they've read to build the army that they love? Bigred has a pre-heresy Death Guard army, and he uses the Space Marine codex. Every battle report, someone complains about it. Would it have been better if he had called them the Unliving Watchers and claimed to be a chapter he created?



You're free to make any decisions you want as a modeler/painter/player, as long as they are fair and clear to your opponent, and as long as you're willing to extend that same courtesy to everyone else.

[timff8]

Well, that's not really what I did.

I play blood angels, and I wanted to repaint them. I saw the Knights of Blood in the new 'dex, and said 'hey, I like that scheme, and the paragraph of fluff is neat.' So I repainted my guys.

I don't have an issue with pre-heresy marines using other lists, becuase they're, well, pre-heresy. They aren't so crazy and chaotic, so I see no reason why they can't use more conservative-minded lists. The problem to me comes when you use units that have no business being in your army fluff-wise.

For example:

I have absolutely no problem with you using the Blood Angels list(my favorite army list, my beloved for a long time now) for your army, even if you are Emperor's Children and want guys with jump packs for troops. I don't take issue with using Baal Predators and other tank builds because any mechanic can put a different gun in a mount. If you're using the dex because you want a different kind of organization, or maybe some updated tanks and veterans, that's fine.

I DO take issue with you using things like Sanguinary Priests and other units that create phenomenon that make no sense outside of the Blood Angels. For Example, there is no way that the White Scars are getting Feel No Pain from a "Khan Cup"; that's not happening. Stuff like that is what makes me mad; those are rules that are supposed to make your codex unique, and it becomes meaningless when you can claim that everyone has it. When some punk playing Ultra-smurfs says his Black Reach terminator farts out a cloud that gives his guys FNP and FC, I see red.

I really think that if your army has a rules set, you should use it. In your example, Khorne Berserkers may not have access to melta guns, but you don't have to use only Khorne Berserkers. You can make a good Chaos list that still uses the actual Chaos dex. I played the 4th edition "codex," if you can call it that, that BA's got in PDF form, and even though it was pretty frustruating, I played it anyways because it fit the fluff. But, again, as long as you don't use Librarian dreadnoughts or stuff like that, I don't mind.

I also kind of take issue with that "red marines are all the same" thought. I see that, yeah, they're just plastic dudes, but no Blood Angel is going to stand for you calling him a sergant of Khorne, and vice versa. I take the fluff and insults to my guys seriously, as I can strategize a lot more when I see my guys as men, not objects, but again that's just my thought process.

I don't care what you do to your guys; I'm just not going to play you if you try to play an all DC list with your Nurgle marines.

Tim_ff8

EDIT:

Yeah, I just realized I just hauled my thread out into a back alley and shot it to death. Oh well. Not like it was going anywhere.

[Daemonette666]

I woulod probably use standard chaos dreadnoughts, chaos vehicles, chaos marines, chosen, havocs, bikers, and raptors. Give them an icon of Khorne or an icon of chaos glory. I would just use the weapons allowed in the chaos codex for them.

I would not use obliterators, defilers, plague marines, noise marines, thousand sons, or daemon princes if I played against you, but I might playing other gamers.

As far as I know they went a little crazy with the blood angels curse similar to what happened with the flesh tearers, but were declared excommunicatus and fled. Some would have gotten their senses together and still consider themselves fighting for the emperor, they are just being hunted by the emperor's forces at the same time. Others however would have gone completely insane and created the warband mentioned n the chaos marine codex.

There are many Space Marine chapters or remnants of chapters that have fled after being hunted by the inquisitoin, or fellow space marines, and still consider themselves loyal to the emperor.

[timff8]

I think that if Chaos had a codex that brought back a lot of the customization that seems to have died of "natural cuases" according to GW, I would play a Nurgle army. I don't understand people who dislikethe current dex because it is bad; it's not bad, it's a solid book. My problem is that there are very little options for customizations. Every unit will be fielded almost exactly the same, assuming there's no points boundary. That's something I was also sad to see in the BA 'dex: very little character wargear options. You basically get a guy with a power weapon and infernus pistol, or a guy with a storm boolter and power fist. Woo. Rock on. Great justice in portraying the supposed master artisans of armor and blades.


I've been trying to find more fluff on the Knights of Blood, but I think they were just conceived in the Chaos 4th ed. codex and added to the new BA dex. I can't seem to find anything else in any other books. Which is a shame, because I like them; they have a different look from the other chapters, but are still identifiable as successors to the BA's.

LIST UPDATE:

I took out the speeder and bikes, and put in a Vanguard Veteran squad(5) with lightning claw, power weapon, power fist, and 5 meltabombs. I also gave the sergeants of the melta-assault squads infernus pistols. Great success; the Vets are realiable, and the bikes never came in in time to do anything. And 3 meltas in a unit is stupidly good; I waste Nids.

Timff8

[Smotku]

With as many squads you have I think it would worth while replacing your reclusiarc with Asrtrathits only abou 40 points more. and you get 2+/4++, strength 6 and most importantly red thirst on 1-3.
and the fluff says he can join any of the successor chapters.

[timff8]

I've considered using him, but really don't want to simply becuase I really dislike using special characters. I've mentioned this before on other sites, but I really think that special characters cheapen the game by giving you abilities that are a little too silly, and they hog all the gear that your customizeable heroes should be able to take too. I really should be seeing Artificer armor on my BA characters.

That being said though, I have tried him out and I liked the idea, but now I don't think he's worth it overall. Forty points more seems too much. Artificer armor doesn't make that much of a difference as I have a 4++ already and I'm sitting in an HG squad.

The strength 6 is nice, but honestly I'm already going at S5 with my crozius, and the difference is pretty small. With the fist I can switch off to S9 and Insta-kill other characters, really hurt things that are going before me anyways, or pen vehicles.

The last part, giving Red Thirst on 1-3 is actually the least useful. I've got 2 priests and a novitiate, so I should be able to bubble and give 5 if not 6 of my squads both FC and FNP. Fearless can actually hinder marine armies, and I have a chapter banner anyway, so I should be good for Ld checks anyhow.

Thanks for the reply anyway, sorry for shutting you down.

Timff8

[Angelofblades]

2000 point list:
Reclusiarch w. crozius, power fist, jump pack

You might as well jsut take Astaroth, the PF on an I5 character doesn't make sense. An Infernus pistol on a BS5 does.

Honor Guard w. jump packs: vet with power weapon and chapter banner
vet with flamer and storm shield
2 vets with lightning claw and storm shield

Drop the flamer for a melta

2 Sanguinary priests with jump packs

They're going to end up in CC, use that WS5 and give them PW's

Assault Squad w. jump packs: 10-man with two melta guns
Assault Squad w. jump packs: 10-man with two melta guns

Assault Squad w. jump packs: 10-man, sergeant with power fist, two flamers
Assault Squad w. jump packs: 10-man, sergeant with power fist, two flamers

I would switch the flamers for more melta, add PW's to the other Sgt's

Land Speeder w. heavy bolter and typhoon missile launcher

Baal predator w. flamestorm cannon and dozer blade

The flamestorm baal is still a bad choice imho, it overspecializes the tank, relegating it to simply infantry killing, at least with the Assault cannons, you can also target MC's, not to mention range. Add heavy bolters

Bike squad: 3-man, sergeant w. combi-melta, one meltagun, attack bike with multimelta

Drop this unit. Imho, the only bikers worth taking are Attack bike squads.

Predator with autocannon and lascannon sponsons



If you drop the biker squad, who cost a whole lot of points, you should hopefully be able to add another autocan/ lascan pred.

[timff8]

Heya

I've actually edited my list since that one, I put a little note on the bottom of my last reply. Here's what it looks like now:

Reclusiarch with crozius, power fist, jump pack - 170 pts.

Honor Guard: Jump packs; Veteran w. bolt pistol, power weapon, chapter banner; Veteran w. flamer and storm shield; 2 Veterans with lightning claw and storm shield - 305 pts.

2 Sanguinary Priests with jump packs - 150 pts.

10-man Assault Squad: Sergeant with infernus pistol, 2 Marines with meltaguns - 225 pts.
10-man Assault Squad: Sergeant with infernus pistol, 2 Marines with meltaguns - 225 pts.
10-man Assault Squad: Sergeant with power fist, 2 Marines with flamers - 225 pts.
10-man Assault Squad: Sergeant with power fist, 2 Marines with flamers - 225 pts.

Vanguard Veteran Squad: Jump Packs; Sergeant w. lightning claw and meltabomb, veteran w. power fist, veteran w. power weapon and meltabomb, two veterans w. meltabombs - 225 pts.

Baal Predator with flame storm cannon - 115 pts.
Predator Destructor with Lascannon sponsons - 135 pts.

But, anyways, onto your thoughts.

If you'll look at my previous post, that's why I don't take Astaroth.

I've toyed around with the Infernus pistol, and I think it just doesn't do enough damage. Against vehicles, it's one melta shot that I need to be within 3". The rest of the unit is built to take out infantry, and I don't want them stalled for a turn. Against infantry and MC's, I can kill one guy a turn pretty dead, but I can fist IC's in melee which I can't with the Infernus pistol, and severely wound a MC.

Every single forum sight I go to tells me to take a jillion meltas. I think I have enough anti-tank in my list, I've got enough units capable of it. I think anti-infanty weapons are still useful, and I don't want to field all of my assault squads the same; I feel bad enough taking four of the same unit.

Some of this stuff I would add, like power weapons on the priests, more gear on my tanks, etc, but there's simply too much points constraint, and I can't fit them in. All my lists end up jam-packed at 2k, and I'm loate to drop units to give more gear to others. I've considered moving gear off of sergeants and onto priests, but I want to keep my fists untargetable, and they still have BS4.

My counter-argument to the Baal would be that the AC/LC pred is over-specailized for ranged anti-tank. The Baal can still ram vehicles for a S:10 hit while it's in close quarters.