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View Full Version : Finite is the root word of Definitely and there's no "a" in it.



Brass Scorpion
12-22-2010, 11:09 AM
Finite is the root word for many other words such as "infinite", "infinity", "definite" and "definitely", yet I see "definitely" misspelled "definately" all the time here and elsewhere too. I did a search of the Dakkadakka forum on the misspelling "definately" and found 4,928 instances where the word, "definitely" is misspelled as "definately". If one searches for the correct spelling, "definitely", it turns up 25,488. That's a full 16% of the combined instances of the word, ignoring other possible less common misspellings that might be around. Sadly, a huge preponderance of the errors are by forum members in the US and UK where English is likely the first language of most of those forum users. Finite, definite, infinite, they are all share the same etymology and there isn't a letter "a" to be found in any of them. There are forum rules for avoiding "net speak" and "leet speak" in favor of correct English, but even when people follow that rule there are clearly some challenges in getting correct English to be used as a standard. Strangely, I had never even seen this now common misspelling until I started looking at Warhammer forums and blogs a few years ago. I find it even more surprising given how much reading is required to play fantasy games like Warhammer. Often good spelling and grammar are learned through experience if not through school because when people read a lot they tend to learn correct usage just from the experience of seeing correct grammar and spelling all the time, yet a fair sized chunk of the gaming community seems immune to "learning by doing" in this manner.

This situation has grown so sad that even so-called "professional" writers can't be bothered to run the spell-checker before publishing. This same error, the word definitely spelled with an "a" in it, appears on the Games Workshop website today. Here's the link. (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=14700001a) It's in the first sentence!

"Just sayin'" as the kids like to say these days. Or to put it another way, no wonder the Eldar sometimes have a condescending attitude toward humans. ;)

Drew da Destroya
12-22-2010, 11:31 AM
The Grammar Police approve of this message.

Another common misspelling is "Loose" instead of "Lose". At first, I thought it was a difference between US and UK spelling conventions, but then I learned that people were just dumb.

I guess that they definately hate loosing.

Aldramelech
12-22-2010, 11:48 AM
You're quite a sad person.........

DarkLink
12-22-2010, 01:36 PM
Use Google Chrome, which has a nice, convenient built in spell checker. So even if you are a redneck high school drop out who failed all your english classes, you can at least fake not being one:p


On another note: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/misspelling

Edit: Just realized that this article actually has definitely/definately in it, by pure coincidence.

Gotthammer
12-22-2010, 01:46 PM
http://www.d-e-f-i-n-i-t-e-l-y.com/


My pet hate is misuse of decimate.

Denzark
12-22-2010, 04:44 PM
Take 1 house point for correct spelling. Lose 18 and commit hari-kiri for extreme pedantry.

Brass Scorpion
12-22-2010, 07:43 PM
Some of the forum users care about Warhammer rules to the point of distraction, others will argue for hours about fictional background material to the point of ridiculousness, some of us care more about the English language and basic literacy. We all have our passions.

Aldramelech
12-23-2010, 03:28 AM
Nope. Still Sad.........

eldargal
12-23-2010, 03:52 AM
Definately definitely is annoying. As is decimate where they mean annihilate. Also:

'Could care less' instead of 'couldn't care less'. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om7O0MFkmpw)Emporer/emporor (for gods sake how often is the word Emperor written in the game literature and people still get it wrong)
Rouge instead of rogue, so common its become a cliche. Having said that, my Farseer is always happy with a Rouge trader is in the vicinity of the Craftworld.

Everyone can have typos and lapses of concentration, but consistently misspelling words does get annoying.

Denzark
12-23-2010, 05:53 AM
The internet is like driving - if one assumes all other users are guilty of profligate idiocy, that they are arrogant about their own meagre driving talents and the serviceability of their cars and are inherently unsafe through their own vehicular misdemeanours, then one will be far more safe in themselves.

Hence I can't get over excited about mispelling, although confess to flinching about 'decimation' - the classics student in me finds this repellent.

Mr Scorpion, what brought you to this soul searching and dakka searching? Was it one incident of have you just flipped?

Why here, and not on the main blog, it would be far mosre amusing than some on the trite tosh being spouted?

PS I am not sure who the equivalent of BMW (now Audi) drivers are on the internet suffice to say I will see them next tuesday as well.

Brass Scorpion
12-23-2010, 10:13 AM
You're quite a sad person.........Aren't you the guy that once took the time to change every, EVERY post as in dozens or even hundreds of them, that he had throughout the forum to "bye..blah blah.." or some such nonsense because he was upset at the forum? I never commented on that before, I normally never comment on things like that even though I see things that are that sad and ridiculous and worse on forums every day, but since people in glass houses apparently like to throw stones, perhaps people should look at their own behavior before calling that of others, "sad".

This forum and other 40K forums are places where people argue to the point of anger about things like whether or not the Emperor drinks Coke or Pepsi and the color of their favorite army's undergarments. Every day I see impassioned debates about the most ridiculous "geek" stuff ever and I never comment to that effect. If I did, I'd be busy doing it all day. Still other users spend all day spamming threads with endless posts about nothing of any consequence. At least my observation was about a legitimate problem that, believe it or not, some people do care about. If you don't think so, look at the comments about bad spelling and grammar on the main BoLS blog the next time one of the writers makes numerous errors. So perhaps it would be better to think twice before calling anything one sees on this forum, "sad".


Mr Scorpion, what brought you to this soul searching and dakka searching? Was it one incident of have you just flipped? No, it's an error I see quite commonly and that has proliferated greatly of late, so I took a few seconds, which is all it takes, to see how common the error was on that forum. Again, based on comments I've seen on the main blog directed toward some of the contributing writers who are weak on spelling and grammar, this issue has legs, which is to say that people do care about it. Nevertheless, as you can see from the reaction here, there are those that will want to "flame on" about it, something I have little wish to engage in. So as to why I didn't make this an article on the main BoLS blog, I decided a while ago that with few exceptions to stick to hobby related articles. To me that's what the BoLS blog is about, or at least it's the best thing I believe I can contribute to it to make it more like what I believe is the best thing it has to offer. Articles on other topics also tend to draw more of the types of comments of which I want no part.

As for calling it "pedantry", I'll bet if I searched the forum hard enough I could find something you've posted that seems ridiculous and then "assassinate" its character, but I try not to engage in that kind of thing, so just because this topic is not one that matters to you is no reason to characterize it badly.


Everyone can have typos and lapses of concentration, but consistently misspelling words does get annoying. Thanks. That was my point. It's not about the occasional error made in haste, my complaint was about those made through persistent lack of knowledge and unwillingness to make even the slightest effort to "get it right". If you have trouble with spelling, at least use the spell-checker, it's just not that tough.

Aldramelech
12-23-2010, 11:59 AM
a legitimate problem

No, its your problem.

And its still sad. Very, very sad. Very, very sad and anal.

Who the hell do you think you are? Strutting around like some kind of super teacher from hell waving your red pen around....

People like you make me sick! How many of those people out there have Dyslexia? How many are having a good time here and have better things to do with their time then make sure every post meets your exacting standards? Who the hell cares about your standards anyway you pompous idiot!

Ram it sunshine, Jog on.

Drew da Destroya
12-23-2010, 01:13 PM
In a wholly text-based format, poor spelling and grammar impedes communication and therefore is a legitimate concern. If you're making an argument for the Emperor preferring Coke, but can't express it in a coherent manner, then you're going to lose that argument.

Now, there are members of the forum who are dyslexic, or non-English speakers, and we need to be cognizant of their issues. That may be part of the reason why Scorpion chose to post this down in the Oubliette, instead of one of the more prominent forums (or the front page). Down here, it can safely be argued over, flamed, and eventually be forgotten.

As others have mentioned, there are built-in tools that assist spelling. Many of the newer internet browsers come standard with a spelling check program which instantly checks and recommends corrections as you're typing... it takes a lot of the effort out of checking your own spelling. It's hardly a herculean effort to make sure that your spelling conforms to the standards of the current English language. The standards are hardly "exacting".... they're standard.

Granted, English is a living language, and thus is subject to etymological drift and evolution, and it may be that "loose" will become the accepted spelling of "lose", "definate" to become the spelling of "definite", and for "left" to become the definition of "right" given enough time... but right now, they're just wrong, and to use words incorrectly is to invite confusion and imprecision into our communication. And clearly, we have a difficult time understanding each other already!

Then again, the internet is killing the written word anyway. What's another nail in the coffin?

DarkLink
12-23-2010, 04:58 PM
Whether it matters or not, spelling and grammar errors sure don't make a very good impression. There are certain members whom I shall not name :p who regularly post unintelligible comments. There are plenty of people who just have massive blocks of text I won't bother to read through. Frankly, it's hard to think of them as anything but uneducated lazy people.

And heck, I'm not even an english major (I want to actually have a useful job). When an engineer is correcting your grammar, it's time to start putting a modicum of effort into your posts.

Denzark
12-24-2010, 08:53 AM
[QUOTE=Brass Scorpion;112450]As for calling it "pedantry", I'll bet if I searched the forum hard enough I could find something you've posted that seems ridiculous and then "assassinate" its character, but I try not to engage in that kind of thing, so just because this topic is not one that matters to you is no reason to characterize it badly.

QUOTE]

Dear BoLS - please check your security measures. It would appear that not only has Brass Scorpion's account been hacked by a menstruating 13 year old girl, but someone has clearly pissssed on her chips and she is in a foul mood thus attemtping to fling doo doo around at all and sundry.

Let me definately offer all kind regards for the festive seasons,

Denzark

eldargal
12-26-2010, 09:02 AM
Sorry Aldy, but its not just his standards. We aren't talking about regional variations, slang or accents*, what is becoming increasingly common is a wanton disregard for the basic rules of the language. Language has rules for a reason, to facilitate the ease of communication. The wanton diregard and ignorance of these rules is disturbing, as it impairs peoples ability to communicate lucidly.

As to dyslexia, there is a considerable body of experts who believe that it is grossly over-diagnosed and that many suffers have simply been poorly educated (not their fault, obviously). One of my close friends is dyslexic, she had to be taught how to read and write differently to the rest of us, and while she has to take care she is no more prone to typos than the rest of us.

*Though while we are on the subject, it would be nice not to be sworn at in public simply because I have Received Pronunciation.:mad: Especially on Christmas Eve. Grumble, grumble.



a legitimate problem

No, its your problem.

And its still sad. Very, very sad. Very, very sad and anal.

Who the hell do you think you are? Strutting around like some kind of super teacher from hell waving your red pen around....

People like you make me sick! How many of those people out there have Dyslexia? How many are having a good time here and have better things to do with their time then make sure every post meets your exacting standards? Who the hell cares about your standards anyway you pompous idiot!

Ram it sunshine, Jog on.

Grailkeeper
12-26-2010, 09:09 AM
Internetz grammor warz!

www.yourallgay.com

Aldramelech
12-26-2010, 10:36 AM
Nope its still sad...............

There are far more important things to worry about.

Gotthammer
12-26-2010, 11:04 AM
Like that missing apostrophe in 'its' ;)

Denzark
12-26-2010, 01:09 PM
Internetz grammor warz!

www.yourallgay.com

I nearly fell off my seat!

This is DEFINATERLY the funniest thing I have seen on the web for a while.

eldargal
12-27-2010, 05:55 AM
Well, of course there are more important things, but that doesn't mean language is not important. It is one of the most important facet of our cultural identity, in fact, and to see it degraded through ignorance and laziness is disturbing. We think in our language, and if we continue to dumb down, simplify and degrade our language, where does that leave our minds? :(

Aldramelech
12-27-2010, 09:15 AM
No I'm sorry, people come here for fun and entertainment, not to have some cyber bully who thinks he's a teacher wag a metaphorical finger at them for the odd spelling mistake, if you want to do that, go run the local spelling bee and leave everybody else in peace.

If I was a younger person of school age I'd defiantly be turned off by that and would seek my kicks elsewhere, you'd get quite enough of that at school, I'm 38 and I cant be doing with it.

off with that crap.

If there's one thing in life I cant be doing with, its pointy headed American middle class college graduates who think its their job to tell the rest of the world off! Not everybody's Mummy and Daddy can afford to have their offspring doss about reading Greek poetry for a few years.

scadugenga
12-27-2010, 10:14 PM
And heck, I'm not even an english major (I want to actually have a useful job). When an engineer is correcting your grammar, it's time to start putting a modicum of effort into your posts.

Hey!

I was an English major--through grad school, no less. And I have a useful job.

Of course, it has nothing to do with my degree...

eldargal
12-28-2010, 08:31 AM
Well, it was posted in the Oubliette which is the appropriate venue for it, its not like it was stuffed on the main page or something. How many people even look in the Oubliette regularly?:rolleyes:

I don't see the problem with correcting peoples mistakes if it is done in a polite and friendly manner.

Denzark
12-28-2010, 09:44 AM
Au contraire Madamemoiselle D'Eldar, the oubliette is a place for amusements, distractions, witty badinage, dueling and other gentlemanly pursuits.

Not for pontificating pedantry proselytizing pandering to petty pisSsant persuasions. (And pointy heads)

Clearly some, myself included, did not like the preachy tones especially when the glass of introspection would reveal a clear feeling in many quarters that BoLS should try and substitute some quality over quantity in their own articles.

But there is another important reason why we should not try and bring the Hoi poloi, proles, mujiks and other assorted plebians up to the highest standards of HM's English - it allows us to separate the Gentleman Thuggery from the peasantry.;)

Aldramelech
12-28-2010, 12:30 PM
Yeah, what he said............

DarkLink
12-28-2010, 08:54 PM
Hey!

I was an English major--through grad school, no less. And I have a useful job.

Of course, it has nothing to do with my degree...

I'm an engineering student. We're required to make fun of liberal arts students whenever we get the change. It's in our contract;).

Kieranator K82
12-29-2010, 12:47 AM
I suuport your cause, Mr Scorpion! Unfortunately we do not go unopposed. Aldramelch has made his stance clear, and Denzark has changed his signature to hinder our cause: "I'M RATHER DEFINATELY SURE FEMALE SPACE MARINES DEFINERTLEY DON'T EXIST."