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Dooley
01-08-2011, 06:47 AM
So looking at the new warplightning cannon for the Skaven it would appear the thing in on scaffolding placing it above the normal rank and file. If we are going off of LOS rules for this, I would assume that you can now claim hard cover if you put a unit of slave directly infront of it and the cannon can now blast OVER them free of charge! If this is so would it be legal for other armies to model their war machines on scaffolding or "IMPROVED" fighting positions to garner the same effect?

TheBitzBarn
01-08-2011, 08:58 AM
Your Understand is a little warped liker the cannon. The actualy Height does not matter. How do Ogres get cover from Gnoblars? This is Fantasy Not the Broken TLOS in 40K. They did not mess up Fantasy with that stupid rule. Do not assume that Unless you are on a Hil.

UltramarineFan
01-08-2011, 12:25 PM
Your Understand is a little warped liker the cannon. The actualy Height does not matter. How do Ogres get cover from Gnoblars? This is Fantasy Not the Broken TLOS in 40K. They did not mess up Fantasy with that stupid rule. Do not assume that Unless you are on a Hil.

Arguments about the advantages of TLOS aside you've actually got the rule wrong. The height of the model does matter. p108 of the rulebook, under 'shooting with war machines', 'Line of sight is always taken from the chosen firing point (i.e. its muzzle or crossbar, in the same way as for its range)'

So yes it does make a difference and to answer the OP I think that if you tried to 'improve' your war machines in that way people would not be happy, in the same way as for 40k.

TheBitzBarn
01-08-2011, 08:10 PM
I would still disagree you you on this point as Line of sight is not the height of the point but the arc or the item such as can is see left or right in it arc of visibilty the enemy unit. I think we have a case were hieght does not matter. Under you thinking Ogres can be shot at if the gnoblars are in front if the gun is on a tall mount such as Stegadon. In that case you are not correct.

addamsfamily36
01-08-2011, 08:28 PM
I was under the impression that if you could see it, you could target it. height and field of arc included. Its like trees. they don't block Line of sight anymore. If you can see through them, you can shoot through them.

Interestingly, I have seen the warp lightning cannon been built using the frame height used for the Catapult variant, and this was on a GW link (sorry can't recall where i saw it). This would definitely raise the cannon giving it an advantage.

Blocking units etc i need to have a look at, as well as the LOS rules, as they all changed.

TheBitzBarn
01-08-2011, 09:39 PM
Page 10 Says "unblocked line of sight" and prior to that they say "they must be able to see there foe"

The question that is not addressed is what is ublocked line of sight. In the Past a unit infront of you, friendly or foe blocked your line of sight Tress do not they just prodive cover (IMO Dumb ). so after checking the FAQ we are both right

UltramarineFan
01-09-2011, 05:01 AM
Page 10 Says "unblocked line of sight" and prior to that they say "they must be able to see there foe"

The question that is not addressed is what is ublocked line of sight. In the Past a unit infront of you, friendly or foe blocked your line of sight Tress do not they just prodive cover (IMO Dumb ). so after checking the FAQ we are both right

Maybe but the common conception is that it works just like TLOS in 40k. This is because you need to look at the full quote for that page, it says 'For one model to have line of sight to another, you must be able to trace an unblocked line from its eyes to any part of the body'
So for something to 'block' line of sight it has to completely obscure the model that is being targetted. So the actual height of the model is very much taken into account and I would add that the wording is almost identical to that in the 40k rulebook which says 'Line of sight must be traced from the eyes of the firing model to any part of the body of at least one of the models in the target unit'

Dooley
01-09-2011, 03:25 PM
Ok looked up the rules and talked about it amongst the locals!

According to the rules a war machine judges LOS by the Muzzle of the Gun or the Cross bar of a Catapult or Trebuchet. So the New Skaven Warplightning model WILL provide an advantage. And yes if you park Slaves in front of it but keeping them 1" away it will provide soft cover for the wa rmachine as over half of it would be obscured.

The general consensus on "improved" modeling is that if the original GW model is not modeled in an advantageous way the improved" custom model gains no benefit. Just another example of GW's The newest thing out is the best thing out, mentality I'm afraid!

TheBitzBarn
01-09-2011, 07:08 PM
i do not see a rule that says soft cover

Dooley
02-12-2011, 07:57 PM
Look up the rules for cover and such Page 41. Much like the Knights the cannon would receive -2 to hit for HARD cover if a unit of Slaves were parked in front of it!