1500 points Templar Wing

[gcsmith]

So everyone is talking about wing armies, deriving the name from Deathwing terminator armies.
Well With recent BLack templar FAQ, the crusaders are calling me away from starting a DE army. And In wanting to use our new toys I came up with a templarwing kinda army.
So I just want to post What I got and ask your opinions.

HQ *140*
Emperors Champion.
-Accept Any Challange No matter the Odds.

Elites *745*

Sword Brethren Terminator squad *Steel Fist*.
-5 TA Sword Brethren.
-2 cyclone missle launchers
-Tank hunters

Sword Brethren Terminator squad *Cyclones Fury*.
-5 TA sword Brethren.
-2 Cyclone missle launchers
-Tank hunters

Sword Brethren Assault Terminator Squad *Hammers Of The emperor*.
-5 TA Sword Brethren
-5 Thunder Hammers and Storm Sheilds
-Furious Charge

Troops *378*

Crusader Squad *Alpha*
-5 Crusaders
-4 Neophytes
-Heavy bolter
-Flamer
-Rhino with smokes

Crusader Squad *Beta*
-5 Crusaders
-5 Neophytes
-Heavy Bolter
-Flamer
-Rhino with smokes

Fast attack *210*

Landspeeder Squadron *Swiftwind*
-Land speeder
-Typhoon

Landspeeder Squadron *Quickstrike*
-Land Speeder
-Typhoon

Landspeeder squadron *Delta*
-Landspeeder
-Typoon

Total *1473*

So overall my army comes 27 points short of limit. Not much I can get with those points but might be something I can find :p

So what do you guys think of the list, To me it screams what black templars should be. But is it competative?
Any improvements and Ideas, im open to all. And I mean all, even if you tell me to not do teplar wing but add other things.

[eagleboy7259]

Neat little abuse of the FAQ. I would put the terminator squads in Drop Pods, basically allowing you to deepstrike them where you want without worrying about mishapping. Since they are basically the punch behind your army, you really need to get them where you want them, and the pod provides a decent bit of cover incase your scatter roll goes wrong. I think I'd say the same thing about your crusader squads, otherwise you end up with two rhinos driving off on their own towards objectives.

I'd be worried about bringing only two scoring units, and no melta. Even with the S9 missile launcher, its still a missile launcher, no +1 on the vehicle damage table for AP1, no 2D6 to. You still need a 5 to glance a land raider, I guess get in close and chainfist the dang thing to death?

Tactics aside this looks like Deathwing, Loganwing > Templarwing? I think when the BT updates their codex they need to have more units that have scouts with them - Bikers with Scout Bikers, Devastaors w/ Sniper Scouts, and that sort of nonsense. Neophytes need to have more of a role than bolt pistol and cc filler in crusader squads. They could aslo have a gimmick that allow you to take a unit as troops if you take a certain number of neophytes with them. After all, there are a number of CC specialist chapters out there, but what seperates the BT's is their chapter is based on a knighthood theme, neophytes learning directly from the fully trained brothers. Shouldn't they have more roles and options than the regular scout, not less?

[gcsmith]

Pods are a good idea, just i have rhinos I can use already. I also like the idea of walking termies to get shots off asap

[GremlinGSP]

There are two things that concern me. One is walking assault terminators. The other is only 2 scoring units.
I'm not sure if those terminators will be able to initiate combat on their terms. I'm working on a similar list.

Emp Champ -AAC
Marshall -honors, TH/SS,Tele-port homer

Elites
Terminators 2 cyclone missile launchers tank hunter
Terminators 2 Assault cannons Tank hunters

Troops
Crusader Squad 6 initiates 3 Neophytes MM, MG Rhino EA+SL
Crusader Squad 6 initiates 3 Neophytes MM, MG Rhino EA+SL
Crusader Squad 6 initiates 4 Neophytes MM, MG Rhino EA+SL

Typhoon Speeder

I love the Marshall. His leadership boost helps allot with target priority and zeal checks. I haven't run him in this configuration and I might drop the TH for a powerfist just to save 5 points. I dont always plan on tele-porting but i like it as an option. Most likely it will just be the assault cannon unit. I'll probably sit the CMLs in area terrain for a 2+/4+cover.

I think the list will work fairly well but I think you should at least consider squeezing in some melta.

[miteyheroes]

I'd split the storm shields up between squads- if one of your other termi squads gets a melta/power weapon hit, you'll regret not having the 3++ save...

[GremlinGSP]

Unfortunately that's not an option with Black Templar. We either get lightning claws and storm shields or guns and PF. We don't quite get the mixing flexibility of dark angels.

[Tynskel]

I like this better:

Chaplain: Comb-Melta,
Command Squad Terminators:
4 Terminators, sgt with Combi-Melta, 2 Cyclones,2 Chainfists.
Tanks Hunters
Drop Pod

you could go with 2 Combi-Plasmas. Tank Hunters makes 'em Str 8. But that really doesn't matter--- it is a hard unit, and it lands exactly where you want it.

Another Option is to go with a Captain, Storm Shield, Thunder Hammer, give the Sgt a Storm Shield, master craft Power Weapon and Thunder Hammer, 2 Cyclones, and 2 Chainfists all with Tank Hunters.

[ChaplainCliff]

I like where you are going with this, I do not see the lack of troops an issue like some people do, since most any unit can contest objectives the termies are now a known threat as is the speeders, this list allows for a lot of damage to come down field, one just needs to play more defensively then a lot of templar players do.

this is what I have postulated for a 1500 Templar-wing list, I like the strengths and obvious yet planned weakness, the point here is to deny objectives and have overwhelming fire.

HQ
emperor's champion suffer not the unclean 125

Troops
crusader squad, 5 las-cannon 95
crusader squad, 5 las-cannon 95
crusader squad, 5 las-cannon 95

Elites
terminator squad, 5 cyclone missile launcher (2) tank hunters crusader seals chain fist (4) 295
terminator squad, 5 cyclone missile launcher (2) tank hunters crusader seals chain fist (4) 295
terminator squad, 5 cyclone missile launcher (2) tank hunters crusader seals chain fist (3) 290

Fast Attack
land speeder, 1 MML 70
land speeder, 1 MML 70
land speeder, 1 MML 70

Points Summary:
HQ: 125
Troops: 285
Elites: 880
Fast Attack: 210
Heavy Support: 0
Total: 1500

[eagleboy7259]

I like this better:

Chaplain: Comb-Melta,
Command Squad Terminators:
4 Terminators, sgt with Combi-Melta, 2 Cyclones,2 Chainfists.
Tanks Hunters
Drop Pod

you could go with 2 Combi-Plasmas. Tank Hunters makes 'em Str 8. But that really doesn't matter--- it is a hard unit, and it lands exactly where you want it.

Another Option is to go with a Captain, Storm Shield, Thunder Hammer, give the Sgt a Storm Shield, master craft Power Weapon and Thunder Hammer, 2 Cyclones, and 2 Chainfists all with Tank Hunters.

Yeah but that squad ends up being several points over the cost of a fully upgraded terminator or terminator assault squad. That and the ability of the chappy doesnt really stack with ACC *no re-rolling re-rolls* Better to go with a Power Sword & Storm Shield Marshall than that set up.

I like the fire support set-up of the Crusaders, but they need to be more survivable. 15 Templars, even hiding in cover, don't really last that long. That and they completely lack and mobility. Sure you can sit on your objectives, but you have to be able to capture & control (:p) your opponents objective in order to win games. Either give them a box or a pod and they'll be good to go. Neophytes are always a good idea since they abblate wounds on your templars.

[gcsmith]

While I do like the idea of a 'Wing' army I came up with an army last night I would concider more balanced and more competative.

Emperors Champ with AAC *140*

5 initiates with bolt pistol and ccw, meltagun and 4 neophytes with shotgun, in drop pod *160*
5 initiates with bolt pistol and ccw, meltagun and 4 neophytes with shotgun, in drop pod *160*
5 initiates with bolter, meltagun and 4 neophytes with shotgun, in drop pod *160*
5 initiates with bolter, meltagun and 4 neophytes with shotgun, in drop pod *160*

Typhoon *70*
Typhoon *70*
2xTyphoon *140*

Vindicator with potms *155*
Vindicator with potms *155*

So far thats 1370 with 2 pieplates, 36 troops and 4 speeders. and the EC.

The plan is to have the EC with one CC squad, and with my other 130 points I want to give my other squad CC support,

The choice I have come up with is between

-Marshel with Stormshield, lightning claw, and Orb. *130*
-Techmarine with full servo harness, stormsheild, and orb *130*

The marshel provides ld 10 for whole army, I think 5 Reroll to hit and wound power weapon attacks on the charge and 3 wounds with 3++ and the orb

The techmarine adds the ability to POSSIBLY fix a vehicle, 3 Reroll to hit power weapon attacks and 2 reroll to hit power fist attacks on the charge. Flamer, Plasma pistol, and auspex with 2+/3++ and only 2 wounds.

So wat do you guys think of the new list, and which would you choose or would you go with something else.

[eagleboy7259]

While your list does provide a bunch of scoring units, Crusaders in Pods are nothing compared to a unit of TH & SS Terminators in Pods. If you could manuver the points around to find room for one then I feel like this list would be much stronger. I personally don't get why everyone is jumping up and down over BT and DA getting the new Typhoon. It's still an AV 10 open topped vehcile that dies to all kind of infantry fire in the universe. Even glancing hits have a decent oppurtunity to bring it down. It's a marginally effective anti-tank weapon, missiles are not melta after all, and a marginally effective anti-troop weapon. Vindi's are fine in theory but are rather tricky when it comes down to it, as that pie plate isn't guanteed to stick to your target, and if the enemy gets close to your unit or your unit gets within assault range of the enemy, it becomes entirely too risky to fire it at that target.

If you're going Drop Pod, take a Ven. Dread with a TL lascannon, heavy flamer and tank hunters. S10 AP 1 w/ re-roll is almost as good as a Vulkan Dread Multi-Melta. He provides anti-tank that your army seriously needs as well as the ability to bail out your templars by tieing up enemy units that would otherwise eat them alive. Shooty Terminators can literally torrent tanks to death and TH&SS terminators... yah we all know by now what those can do.

[gcsmith]

Well I could swap the Typhoons for dreads?
and wat about the tech or marshel.
And should I keep the vindis

[eagleboy7259]

Absolutely go with the marshall. I don't think that the techmarine's power is all the wonderful, "oh I might reverse the effects of 1/3 of the vehicle damage chart" that and you have to be in base contact with the vehicle to use the power? Uh-huh...

That kind of situation is pretty unlikely to occur, or at least unlikely enough where I would rather spend my points on a Marshall. Marshall - artificer armor, storm shield, power weapon / fist and pistol. Cheap enough, 2+/3++ with 3W and I5 "That's right try assaulting these crusaders!"

The Vindi's can be good, they're just trickey. Tri-Las and Auto-Las predators are still a safer and cheaper bet. If you don't have to run Land Raiders, then 3 Predators make for damn good heavy support. 133pts for the Auto-Las with smoke and armor.