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MaltonNecromancer
01-31-2011, 01:21 PM
Hello all.
Some of you may remember my ill-fated "GW and Sexism" thread. It's closed no, and this isn't a re-tread of that; this is something else.

So anyway, I am writing a letter to GW about gender biases in their product. Boiled down to a nutshell, I want a male-to-female ratio of 50% of all models for those armies where such distinctions are relevant (so not Necrons or Orks, etc. but definitely including Space Marines - if you don't want female marines, fair enough, I don't and will never EVER get why, but fair enough) as it become necessary to update the miniature moulds.

My previous thread brought me a great deal of helpful advice from many, and as I've been mulling it over, and actually need some information from as many gamers as possible. Simply put, I would like to know:

1 - What's your gender? (Male, female, trans - if you prefer not to say, please don't respond; your information will not be helpful, given that it's a gender-based survey).

2 - What do you think of all the armies for the 40K game line (not WHFB - doesn't interest me is the only reason why; if you want to include your opinions of those, feel free:)), army by army and would you play them? All armies, all opinions please :)

So, to kick things off.

I'm male.

SM - Play them. Love them. Have since 1989. Like the design, like the playstyle, like the background. Don't get why they're all male (don't bother to explain - I've heard all the arguments, none of them satisfy me, if you disagree, cool, let's just disagree and move on :))

Blood Angels - Play them. Love the Sanguinary Guard models. Love Death Company dreads.

Space Wolves - Detest them, because I basically can't stand the Viking aesthetic; couldn't care less about the rules, can't abide the whole hairy-man-with-an-axe-thing.

Dark Angels - Play them. Love the robes and homoerotic subtext. Deathwing has been cool since that first 40K short story collection.

Black Templars - Don't play. Robes are cool but a sword? To a gunfight? Can't suspend my disbelief that much. Battle of Crecy proved how dumb that plan is.

IG - Primary army of choice; love the fact that humans are essentially useless individually, but superb as a whole. Also love the tanks and wide number of unit choices.

Sister of Battle - Like them, don't play them due to all-metal models, and the poor sculpting on 90% of those models.

Daemonhunters - Like them, don't play them due to age of codex. Probably will do when new codex is released.

Eldar - Don't play. Love the idea, hate the all-metal army, and the fact they're not as elite as they should be.

Dark Eldar - Play them. Like them for the "Hellraiser" aesthetic.

Orks - Have an army but never play it. Like the number of dreads/kans you can field but can't face painting more than one or two boys... let alone the 9000 I'd need to paint.

Tyranids - Play them. Love them - have, ever since I first saw a Genetealer back with Space Crusade.

Necrons - Like the idea; hate the fact they're "Tomb Kings IN SPACE" when they should be Mechanical Cthulhus... if the new codex dropped the Egyptian thing in favour of Matrix-style bugtopuses, I'd be in. It won't, ever, so I'll never play them.

CSM - Don't play them, never will. The 80's ended over 20 years ago, I see no need to return to those awful, awful times.

Daemons - Don't play them. Would, if they looked scary, like the Helldorado demons. As it is, they either look lame or fruity, or some embarrassing combination of the two.


So, that's my opinion. What's yours?

JxKxR
01-31-2011, 01:34 PM
I do think they are trying, but to be honest I think it's just hard to model girls. GW is trying with Dark Eldar and SOB from what I read they are having trouble modeling the Sisters. So is it not possible that you are just being difficult?

I'm a dude and, I play Tau and Chaos Space Marines because I like the way they look and if GW came out with female models for them and they looked cool then I would put them in. I have Shadowsun.

jorz192
01-31-2011, 01:54 PM
Why are there no female space marines? Why are there no male sisters of battle?

I am not gender biased but that is kind of like monks vs. nuns. And with the chance of a Codex for
Sisters of Battle out soon that will kind of help balance that out.

Imperial guard, eldar, dark eldar, and Tau all deserve female sculpts.

The other guy
01-31-2011, 03:10 PM
Just make the new tervigon sculpt slighty feminine and that would cover tyranids lol.

On a more serious note, I'm male. I would like GW to clarify their possition on space marines. (either they are always male because of reason X , or they are both male and female and you can look forward to buying expensive female torsos from next release).

Eldar could do with some female torsos and heads.
Necrons are asexual. I don't know enough about tau, and don't care about guard.

Sisters of battle should be plastic, included in a general inquisition codex and given awesome rules.

Hope that helps.

Lane
01-31-2011, 03:15 PM
male.

SM - have a fair size force

Blood Angels - nice models, do not like characters or playstyle

Space Wolves - like the look and background, dont need a second marine army

Dark Angels - waiting on new Codex, my SM army is made up of DA models

Black Templars - like the look, not my play style

IG - building an army, like range of unit choices and multiple play styles

Sister of Battle - Love the models, need time to paint and a new Codex.

Daemonhunters - Love the models, need time to paint and a new Codex

Eldar - My first army, great style for the minis but hate the direction the last couple codex have treated them.

Dark Eldar - one of the few races I do not have. do not like the style. They seem more like whiny little *****es tha true evil.

Orks - Gave mine away, not enough time to do all the conversions they deserve.

Tyranids - have a few old minis, might re visit them if I had time, money and could get more of the old models.

Necrons - a forgotten race that needs to be forgotten again

CSM - Love the style and conversion opportunities but already have a marine army. Would like to see multiple lists in one Chaos Codex. They could make a list for each chaos power, a non power specific list, a traitor but not chaos list and a Chaos IG list. Fold the Daemons back into the main codex.

Daemons - options too limited. See above.

Tau - hate them

Lane
01-31-2011, 03:29 PM
Why are there no female space marines?


IMHO female Space Marines would be pointless.
I see three options for the look of such minis.

They could look like SoB.

They could be big scarry amazons that look they could penetrate you with their superhuman C***.

The would look just like male marines (seen a few of these in the real world)



Imperial guard, eldar, dark eldar, and Tau all deserve female sculpts.


Eldar, both types, already have a fair range of femal minis. This fits their background where every Eldar is needed to fight for racial survival.

Tau - do they have physical distinction between genders?

IG - from real life experience the physical appearance in full battle rattle is fairly small. Making female IG that did not look like cheesecake but still obviously female would be difficult. Probably not cost effective to make plastic minis aut too expensive to build an all metal army.

HsojVvad
01-31-2011, 03:31 PM
*Deleted by the inquisition*

As to what I play, I play Dark Angles and Tyranids. I love the colour scheme and fluff for DA. I like the minis and fluff for Tyranids.

DA love the fluff and models.

Tyranids same.

Other SM chapter, don't really care fore. I don't have much money, so I will stick to what little I have. :)

Tau, they are ok. To just like the Imperium. I could live without them.

Chaos. Meh, don't seem so scary anymore fluff wise with new codex.

Elder and DE, never read the codex. First time I saw Eldar, I thought they were a joke because they looked like clowns.

DH/WH would have loved to collect them, but trying to buy everything is too expensive, stuck with DA and Tyranids. I can have 2 armies for the price on one.

Necron, never bothered. Screams Terminators, and I love Terminator. I am Terminator out, espically after the last 2 movies. Ugh!

Orks, They are great and fun. Lots and lots of converion possibilities, and no matter if you win or loose, you have FUN, which we seem to forget when we play other armies.

Dameons, never bothered with them since they were split out from 3rd edtion codex. All it screams of, we are cheap, but you can buy our minis for Chaos that is good for 40K and WFB.

Again, this would have been a good post except for your complaining about gender equality and then not wanting to hear about it.

Scion_of_Terra
01-31-2011, 03:33 PM
Sisters of Battle will always be women because their fluff specifically requires it. Space Marines are men because Rule 63 only applies to the internet. Unless the Emperor's Children [REDACTED BY ORDER OF THE INQUISITION].

HOWEVER

Female ImpGuard are totally necessary. I can't stand having Johnny Rico but not Dizzy Flores (or Carmen Ibanez, for that matter, although she would have to be an Officer of the Fleet). Besides, the fluff supports it.

We have female Eldar, but I'd like to see more sprinkled into the Aspect Warrior sculpts.

Dark Eldar are done right. Finally.

As for Tau... Just because the models don't appear female doesn't mean they aren't. They're aliens - they're not supposed to share the same physical characteristics as humans. While the popular theory amongst my peers is that female Tau have udders, the only gender differences I have seen displayed are a more purplish skin tone and a Y-shaped crease on the face instead of a line. So there's no reason you can't point to a Crisis suit or a helmeted Fire Warrior and say, "That one's a girl."

Daemons are stupid. GW should have left them in with the CSM, along with the at least 100 other things they should also have done. As it stands, however, the Daemonettes take your 50% concept a little too far for my taste.

Lockark
01-31-2011, 04:03 PM
1 - What's your gender? (Male, female, trans - if you prefer not to say, please don't respond; your information will not be helpful, given that it's a gender-based survey).


Female. (Trans)



2 - What do you think of all the armies for the 40K game line (not WHFB - doesn't interest me is the only reason why; if you want to include your opinions of those, feel free:)), army by army and would you play them? All armies, all opinions please :)


SM- To many chapters to cover.

Blood Angels - I don't like the blood angles them selves. But there Successor Chapter the Flesh Terrors are cool. There alot more vampire anti-heroes and I enjoy that.

Space Wolves -Can't say I like them that much. I dig the space werewolf thing, but not the space vikings.

Dark Angels - I love these guys. Dark, brooding, and mysterious. I love the fact they draw heavily from the secretive knightly orders like the Templars.

Black Templars - Crusader knights in space? I guess there cool. But nothing special.

IG - Love these guys. I expecaily love Traitor Guard and Steel Legion. Very cool fluff and models all around. Great opportunities for conversions. I play this army.

Sister of Battle - There pretty bad ***. Crazy zelotes in power Armour that kicks everyone's ***. XD

Daemonhunters - Knights in shining Armour. There cool I guess. But a little to bland to me.

Eldar - Love the concept. Hate the models.

Dark Eldar - Love these guys. There sadistic and evil, yet there able to justify what they do. There not evil for the sake of being evil. I play this army.

Orks - These guys a great and fun to model. I play this army.

Tyranids - These guys a cool. More of a force of nature then a enemy. I played this any but not any more.

Necrons - Use to not like these guys. But there newer fluff makes them alot more interesting.

CSM - Love these guys. There mortal followers of chaos. There "evil" by the imperial standards, but there all justified in there crusade ageist the oppressive empire. (From there point of view.) I play this army.

Daemons - Interesting idea for a army, but poorly done. A force of nature like the Tyranids more then anything. Thought it make more sence havering them as support units to the mortal followers of chaos. IMHO.

Tau- To weeaboo for me.

steelmage99
01-31-2011, 04:04 PM
Sisters of Battle will always be women because their fluff specifically requires it. Space Marines are men also because their fluff specifically requires it

Fixed that bit for ya.

gcsmith
01-31-2011, 04:17 PM
Yes the marines are all male, sorry but thats their FLUFF, yes its sexism, but thats because the emperor was sexist.
Besides GW shouldnt supply female models for the sake of it, especially since theres little evidence for races like tau having many distinctions, and the ranges where they mainly exist in the fluff already have them, See DE and Eldar.

Sure Guard can have female recruits, but its mainly the males due to fluff reasons, they are fighting for mankinds survival and the officers are probably sexist :p

But GL with the letter anyway,

And to be constructive.

Male

Play Tau, and BT and HE. I played tau because a friend did, and I like the idea of using technology to counter your own weaknesses, BT are heroic and Highelves are magic pwners.

all other armies I just dnt enjoy that much, orks are idiots generally while some intellegence exists I prefer suicidal charges for heroism not strength.
Tyranids dnt have tanks,
and smurfs are cowards 'failed to defend the emperor'
BA and SW are inferior.
Necrons are Bland.
DE and Eldar I like, but not as bad *** as templars.

WereWolf_nr
01-31-2011, 07:30 PM
I'm male, I play SM, IG and would like to play SoB if they were plastic.

I think there should be female models for armies that it is logical for. I don't think there needs to be male SoB or Female SM but a better balance in the Tau, IG (perhaps a primarily female force?) and Eldar lines would be appreciated. Female orks may be funny as well.

DarkLink
01-31-2011, 10:41 PM
They do have female Guardians in the Eldar army. And Howling Banshees.

Really all GW needs to do is put some females in the Guardsman sprue and call it good. Every other army really is either too alien or has reasons to lack female troops.

In fact, 'nidz have likely evolved beyond the need for gender.

eldargal
02-01-2011, 07:09 AM
Yes, for a society where gender is largely irrelevent they have two female guardian torsos, no heads, and no female Aspect Warriors apart from Howling Banshees. So no female Dire Avengers, Reapers, Fire Dragons etc. Really doesn't make sense, I'm hoping it will change when the next range of Eldar models are released, in a similar vein to the DE release where over the whole range around half the models are female.

Apart from that, yes Guardsmen and perhaps Tau are the only armies tht really need female sculpts. SoB already have them.


They do have female Guardians in the Eldar army. And Howling Banshees.

Really all GW needs to do is put some females in the Guardsman sprue and call it good. Every other army really is either too alien or has reasons to lack female troops.

In fact, 'nidz have likely evolved beyond the need for gender.

Brass Scorpion
02-01-2011, 09:38 AM
for a society where gender is largely irrelevent... But it's extremely relevant in the society in which we live and that is also the miniatures battle game customer base. The preponderance of soldiers throughout history have been male and sadly, the preponderance of all violence on or off the battlefield is committed by males. And since the targeted audience for this product is young males, it's not really that difficult to figure out why most toy soldiers, GW or not, are portrayed as male. But I'm sure this statement of the obvious won't disuade the continuation of this thread for several more pages until it erupts in a huge argument that gets it closed by a Moderator. Seriuosly, why do people insist on generating these discussions with strangers on the Internet? It can't really be that rewarding or socially enlightening. This topic has the word "research" in the title. I would have used a different word to describe it. *sigh*

P.S. If it matters, I have been collecting Eldar since Rogue Trader and Dark Eldar since they first appeared. My original Dark Eldar Archon was created from bits and I used the female torso from the plastics available at the time. In other words, it's a fantasy game and I like variety in my models.

Drew da Destroya
02-01-2011, 09:57 AM
I'm male.

SM - Don't play. I've proxied them once or twice, but overall I'm not that interested.

Blood Angels - Don't play them. I like the models, and the fluff, but have no interest in the army.

Space Wolves - Don't play them. I like the aesthetic, but hate Thunderwolves.

Dark Angels - Don't play them. Maybe if they were more unique, I'd be interested, but overall they're just green marines.

Black Templars - Don't play them, and never really had an interest.

IG - I've proxied them as an Alpha Legion force (with allied PA Grey Knight Teleport Attack to be the "Ifrit Stealth Squad"), and that was a lot of fun. Don't own any models, though (other than a looted Basilisk from 2nd edition).

Sister of Battle - Don't play them. I'd like to see the models and book get redone, though. Probably still wouldn't play, but I think they're a cool army.

Daemonhunters - Don't play them. Seem cool, and I'm interested in the new book, but I still probably won't play them... unless I can make a good Alpha Legion out of them.

Eldar - Don't play them. I like some aspects of the army, but overall wouldn't play them.

Dark Eldar - My secondary army. LOVE the new models, the new book is pretty awesome (although I miss pinning things).

Orks - My primary army. Love the army, love the models, love converting, HATE painting.

Tyranids - Don't play them. Not really interested, either, but I like fighting them.

Necrons - Don't play them. I'm interested in their new book.

CSM - Don't play them. Not really interested in Renegades, but it'd be cool to see a Legions book (you may have noticed my interest in the Alpha Legion, lol)

Daemons - Don't play them. Proxied them twice, hated their playstyle.

Tau - Don't play them, but I like their aesthetic and playstyle. I might pick them up if their book gets redone, but not until after my Dark Eldar are closer to "finished".

eldargal
02-02-2011, 10:18 AM
Irrelevent. The gender gap in the Dark Eldar line was largely addressed, no reason to assume it won't be in the Eldar line as well. The idea that female models won't sell because the playerbase is largely male is highly dubious to say the least, and purely speculative without any sales figures.

Edit: While I'd like to see more female Eldar, and have no doubt we will get them with the next plastics, I don't care that much. It would be nice to see the model range reflect the fluff, but I'd be just as happy if it were left to Forge World and won't lose any sleep if it doesn't happen.


But it's extremely relevant in the society in which we live and that is also the miniatures battle game customer base. The preponderance of soldiers throughout history have been male and sadly, the preponderance of all violence on or off the battlefield is committed by males. And since the targeted audience for this product is young males, it's not really that difficult to figure out why most toy soldiers, GW or not, are portrayed as male. But I'm sure this statement of the obvious won't disuade the continuation of this thread for several more pages until it erupts in a huge argument that gets it closed by a Moderator. Seriuosly, why do people insist on generating these discussions with strangers on the Internet? It can't really be that rewarding or socially enlightening. This topic has the word "research" in the title. I would have used a different word to describe it. *sigh*

P.S. If it matters, I have been collecting Eldar since Rogue Trader and Dark Eldar since they first appeared. My original Dark Eldar Archon was created from bits and I used the female torso from the plastics available at the time. In other words, it's a fantasy game and I like variety in my models.

Kieranator K82
02-02-2011, 06:43 PM
Male.
Space Marines (Ultramarines and a custom 'crusading' chapter)
Imperial Guard (Custom regiment - 7th Talassar)
Orks (Da Goffz)

You don't care about WHFB, but:
Empire (for the glory of Sigmar!)
Orcs & Goblins (when the new book comes out)
Dark Elves (have two units :rolleyes:)


I think a bit more diversity in the appropriate ranges couldn't hurt. For example, unlike the GW studio I include soldiers of different ethnicities in my regiment, of different ranks.


Female orks may be funny as well.

Sorry WereWolf, but female orks/orcs cannot exist. Male orks/orcs do not exist either. The ork/orc is a sexless being, and only refers to itself as a 'boy' because it sees it's physical traits as being vaguely similar to the males of other races (particularly the humies!) The orks/orcs were biologically engineered by a long dead race to be the 'perfect'b fighting force. They are muscular because that gives them a strength advantage over their foe. They have deeper voices because that makes their battle cries more unnerving. And when an ork/orc dies, shortly after a burst of spores is released, and these will grow to be either, mushrooms, snots, grots/goblins, or orks/orcs. No genders. No sexism. Hmm, maybe it would be better to be orks/orcs than humies...

DarkLink
02-02-2011, 07:33 PM
"The Orks are the pinnacle of creation. For them, the great struggle is won. They have evolved a society which knows no stress or angst. Who are we to judge them? We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn? And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask! We see a culture that is strong and despise it as crude." -Uthan the Perverse, Eldar Philosopher

Daemonette666
02-02-2011, 09:45 PM
The only armies that are feasable to be able to include female warriors are: Sisters of course, Imperial Guard, Dark and The Not Dark Eldar, Daemon Hunters but only for the Inquisitorial Storm Troopers and Inquisitor Retinue troops, Traitor Gaurd.


I think that since GW has basically said that Space Marines and the Better space marines (thats Chaos Space marines to everyone else) can not have females due to the Gene Seed not being compatable with female DNA, then all spacemarine armies will not get them. Orks can not have them because Ork females are smaller than the males, and their culture is Might is Right, so no go there because their females are smaller than the males. Tau, It is harder but Fire warriors are no go because of their culture, but their Ethereals, and earth/Air Casts could have female models, as these are not a warrior male elite group. The water caste would never be seen on the battle field, so GW would not model them.

Tyranids and Necrons well obviously not an option.

SO GW just need to increase their IG forces

Daemonette666
02-02-2011, 09:49 PM
Male.
Sorry WereWolf, but female orks/orcs cannot exist. Male orks/orcs do not exist either. The ork/orc is a sexless being, and only refers to itself as a 'boy' because it sees it's physical traits as being vaguely similar to the males of other races (particularly the humies!) The orks/orcs were biologically engineered by a long dead race to be the 'perfect'b fighting force. They are muscular because that gives them a strength advantage over their foe. They have deeper voices because that makes their battle cries more unnerving. And when an ork/orc dies, shortly after a burst of spores is released, and these will grow to be either, mushrooms, snots, grots/goblins, or orks/orcs. No genders. No sexism. Hmm, maybe it would be better to be orks/orcs than humies...

Back in the old days before GW developed a set of guidelines for the races, they made female Ork Miniatures, and female fantasy Orc miniatures. I remember seeing female orks with shootaz and choppaz and all manner of Orkish equipment and yes they had huge breasts.

Orks doe not have females now it seems, but they used to.

Kieranator K82
02-03-2011, 02:30 AM
Daemonette 666, I would like to say that I for one am glad they eradicated female orks/orcs from existence.

I present to all, EXHIBIT A! (sorta NSFW!)

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat490016a&prodId=prod1560097

MaltonNecromancer
02-04-2011, 06:32 PM
How is that model £5.10 now?! I remember when it was like, £1.50, and it wasn't worth it then!

Terrible sculpt...

Farseer Uthiliesh
02-04-2011, 07:57 PM
I'm a male.

SM - Not interested.

Blood Angels - Again, not interested.

Space Wolves - My least favourite SM chapter.

Dark Angels - I have been very tempted to play DA, as I love the aesthetic and background. But, I only have two armies per setting (40K & WH).

Black Templars - A very interesting chapter, but would never play them.

IG - I have been keen for a while on collecting a Death Korps of Krieg army.

Sister of Battle - Not interested.

Daemonhunters - Not interested.

Eldar - My first (RT) army, and have been collecting them, on and off, for many years. Love them - design and background wise.

Dark Eldar - I LOVE the Dark Eldar. My main 40k army.

Orks - Not interested, although they seem a lot of fun.

Tyranids - I have been collecting them on and off for years. However, I always end up selling them. Maybe it's the lack of character or the tedium of painting the same colour scheme again and again. Still, they are great.

Necrons - Love them. I very much respect the whole ancient slumbering evil, and think 40K has needed something like it for a long time. The story at the end of the codex about what awaits the galaxy should everyone fail is pure atmosphere.

CSM - Never have been interested. Chaos does nothing for me.

Daemons - Not interested.

Tau - Love the Tau, and have been close to purchasing an army for a long time. But, as I said earlier, I only field two armies for each system.

For Warhammer, I collect Dark Elves and Skaven.

eldargal
02-05-2011, 03:11 AM
Female.

SM: I have a smalle force of FSMS just to annoy people, I don't play them though

Blood Angels: They have become absurd, no interest.

Space Wolves: I'm not very fond of Space Wolves

Dark Angels: Tempted sometimes, love the background.

Black Templars: Slight interest in the germanic theme but not enough to collect.

IG: Would have an IG force in an instant if I could get female Guardswomen.

Sister of Battle : Love them, waiting for new codex and plastics.

Daemonhunters: Like the fluff, wouldn't play them.

Eldar: My main army, rapidly approaching 50k points.

Dark Eldar: My second army

Orks: Have 750pts worth, discovered I hate painting Orks so it won't go any further.

Tyranids: Not interested

Necrons: Completely apathetic to them, think C'tan were the worst addition to the fluff to date.

CSM: I have a small Thousand Sons force, would expand it if there were plastics and a decent codex.

Daemons: No interest at all.

Tau: Dislike Tau quite a lot.


For Warhammer I have High Elves, Empire and a nascent Dorf army.

doom-kitten
02-15-2011, 03:17 PM
Okay I'm don't care about female models or male models the gender makes no difference on how well they fight, didn't read whole forum so I might have missed something anyways...

Male

Space Marines - Played em once or twice got sick of how much GW overplays them also they keep adding new **** that craps all over perfectly good units such as captains and the original land raider.

Space Wolves - One thing they look nothing like wolves in space, and they whole barbarian thing is lame they have some nice models and look good when painted up by a good player but their just to lame and how they fit into the imperium and haven't been burnt to heretical ciders confuses me.

Dark Angels - They look good and the Ravenwing is and awesome concept.

Blood Angels - Space Vampires yay another lame vampire stereotype...

Black Templars - Really wish I had some and I'm looking to build an army the whole crusade theme is great and power armour plus swords seems very do able.

Eldar - Like them have played them but not a fan of armies with multiple army colours I like more standardized and uniformly look plus their deviant witches and must be purged.

Dark Eldar - Whats with the road warrior theme it's lame plus the things they call girls look like manly drug addicts with tits...except for Lelith she's awesome...someone should tell her that thongs in a gunfight makes less sense than a sword.

Tau - Very Gundam but thats cool and they look fantastic as for female Tau warriors it's hard to picture them putting breast cups on their battle suits seems very weird and pointless.

Orcs - Female orcs...lets just not even think of it, intense army that makes me weep alot

Tyranids - Fantastic army huge fan of swarm based armies out to consume everything have small army (in theory 100+ models is small), female bugs would be creepy

Battle Sisters - My main army and it kicks ***, kinda nervous for the new plastics as I've noticed a skin tight tread for female units and would hate my sisters looking eldar like with robes and a big gun seems conflicting.

Grey Knights - Awesome storyline and planning to play them with the new army book

Imperial Guard - Like em but writer like Abnett ruined them for me with his 'ridiculously hard to kill' gaurd characters I'm sorry guardsman just aren't the survivor type and making them seem that way is annoying maybe a few are able to do this but every character except supporting one is retarded.

anyways back to the female marines thing, I always thought they gave a clear reason in why theres no female marines and I think the Emperor was the one who made it clear when he first made them don't remember the specifics but I imagine someone does.

Chaos Space Marines - Can't stand them very much in favour of the Imperium myself.

Chaos Demons - Why did they split from Chaos Space Marines their models are lame except a few and the deep striking makes them easy to pick off.

Necrons - Their okay but really how many races dedicated to eradication and slavery do they need Necrons seem like metal Chaos to me

Space Corsair
02-24-2011, 12:38 AM
Male.

Played Space Marines and Eldar in my youth. Just getting back into the hobby again after a long hiatus.

Love Space Marines, Chaos Marines, Eldar and Dark Eldar. Interested in Tau and Imperial Guards. Don't really care for Orcs or Necrons.

In case anyone's interested, I have pics of Female Space Marines miniatures I've sculpted on my blog:

http://battlesuits.blogspot.com/2011/02/caution-female-space-marines-aka-faipa.html

IMG]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_YkK_9KlnoyQ/TVIpvAVE7QI/AAAAAAAAABU/vjNYpa9-sF8/s1600/faipa+trio1.jpg[/IMG]

I've gotten some good reception over at dakkadakka.com (where I also have a PM blog). I hope some of you here find them to your liking too.

I obviously think female Space Marines are a good idea. GW has done enough retcon in the past that I'm sure they will eventually when they feel it's necessary to keep up with the times/audience.

Necron2.0
02-27-2011, 10:17 PM
Daemonette 666, I would like to say that I for one am glad they eradicated female orks/orcs from existence.

I present to all, EXHIBIT A! (sorta NSFW!)

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat490016a&prodId=prod1560097

AAAUUGGGHHH!!!! MY EYES!! THEY'RE BURNING!!!

<*Ahem*>

Ok, so I've only been playing 40K for a couple years. Prior to that ... well, I hadn't played anything for a decade or so. Back in college I was heavily into Star Fleet Battles, and that was my game of choice. Only recently have I gotten back into gaming, somewhat at a friends insistence. I guess what I'm saying is, I don't fall into the slot of "typical WH40K player." Bear that in mind as you consider my response.

So, to answer your question ...:

Sex: Male

Army #1: Necrons (painted)
Army #2: Dark Eldar (composed by not painted)
Army #3: Iron Hands (planned with some play using substitutes. A couple units built)
Army #4: Sisters of Battle (for future development - own all necessary components)
Army #5: Black Templars (for future development - own all necessary components)
Army #6: Dark Angels (for future development - own all necessary components)

Everything else I'm not interested in. As for how represented females are in terms of game pieces, generally I don't care any more than I care if a chess pawn or a checker is male or female. In terms of fluff, Space Marines are male, and Sisters of Battle are female. That is by definition, and isn't going to change. In my DE army, Wyches are female - period. Same with Succubi. Likewise Inucubi are male. Everything else is whatever it is. I don't have a problem with Banshees being only female ... in fact, if I played Eldar, that's what they'd be ... because that's what they are. Orks are fungus, so they're neither male nor female. As for the I-guard, I can understand why they're either mostly or exclusively male. When was the last time you read about Commissars conducting "sensitivity training?" That is to say, this is no golden age of the progressive utopia. This is the dark future, where everyone is a cog in the wheel - you will fit into your place, or else you will be pounded into your place. Viewed strictly as a resource, only women can produce future soldiers, and so are generally too valuable to waste as cannon fodder. As for men, you only need a handful to guarantee genetic diversity, so they are completely expendable.

Or, put another way...


Your hopes and dreams are irrelevant, and are in fact HERESY, because they do not conform to the needs of the State.

eldargal
02-28-2011, 01:38 AM
But thats the thing, we know beyond all doubt that the Guard do recruit females, and there are indeed all-female regiments. Yet the only female guard are a couple of very old, very crude Catachans and a limited edition Commissarette who looks like a whore.

Wyches are not all female either, hence the 4 male torsos in each box. As for Banshees, the fluff used to make reference to male Banshees. So quite wrong there too.

Lerra
02-28-2011, 10:47 AM
Female.

Space Marines: Cartoony over-exaggerations. In a lot of the fluff, It's like Thor and the Hulk had a love child, and then infused the baby with testosterone and unobtainium. Space Marines are boring for the same reason that Superman is boring, and Space Marines take themselves way too seriously. Space Marines are not grimdark enough for 40k.

Special exceptions for Black Templar, Grey Knights, and Dark Angels, who have some pretty cool fluff, although it's not quite enough to overcome the silliness inherent in being a space marine.

IG: The complete disregard for human life is interesting. The WW1-era tanks are cool, but the hordes of human models are kind of boring when you've got so many other options that are less vanilla. The fluff behind the Imperium of Man is pretty interesting, though. Very grimdark.

Sisters of battle: The models are pretty cool. The fluff is interesting even if it's pretty stock: Religious zealots - when good goes bad. I might play an Inquisition army, but would probably not play a SoB army.

Eldar: I like the models and the fluff, but I don't enjoy the play style of the army. I will probably collect some of the models but wouldn't put together a whole army.

Dark Eldar: The models are awesome, the army has a lot of variety in the way it plays, and I'll probably end up collecting DE some day.

Orks: Are awesome and hilarious. The models and the fluff are fun and interesting. If I could convince myself to paint that many models, I'd be collecting orks. Maybe some day.

Tyranids: Are interesting, but not quite as cool as other options.

Necrons: Love the idea of a robot army, but I'll save my judgement until I see the new 'Cron codex and models. Lots of potential here, though.

Chaos SM: With the current dex, I probably wouldn't play this army. If they had more options for customizing your army (more depth and options, rules for Legions and mono-God lists that aren't as restrictive as they are now) I'd be in.

Chaos Daemons: I collect this army, but most of my army is conversions. I love the models, but the line needs more plastic. I like how they play so differently from other armies. It's nice to be able to mix things up with Daemons.

Kroot Mercs: My first army. Fun fluff, fun rules, lots of variety and interesting models. I wish GW would bring Kroot Mercs back, even if it was just a short White Dwarf army list.

Tau: I like the fluff and the models. I play Tau by default because of my Kroot Mercs army, but I do like their style.

Necron2.0
02-28-2011, 11:06 AM
But thats the thing, we know beyond all doubt that the Guard do recruit females, and there are indeed all-female regiments. Yet the only female guard are a couple of very old, very crude Catachans and a limited edition Commissarette who looks like a whore.

Well then, yes. That's something GW should address. My comments were based on what could be true for a repressive regime, but if the background information has already made it explicit, then this is a deficiency. I also tend to think of the I-guard like the Spartans. In Spartan society, men fought, women had children for the state - end of discussion. There were only two ways for a Spartan to be buried with honors. For a man, he had to die in battle. For a woman, she had to die in child birth. That was it.

The idea that females are hard to sculpt is bunk because I've been doing it for years, and professionals have been doing it for decades. GW just needs to get their act together.


Wyches are not all female either, hence the 4 male torsos in each box.

As I said, not in MY army. Wyches are not Wörlocks. ;) I've actually resculpted some of those torsos back into female (easy to do considering Elves ... erm, Eldar ... are near androgynous anyway :p).


As for Banshees, the fluff used to make reference to male Banshees. So quite wrong there too.

And again, not in my army ... if I played Craftworlders. Traditionally, bean sídhe are by definition female, and I don't see a need to change that here. In this case I'd go against the fluff, because the fluff is questionable ... for me at least.

Grailkeeper
02-28-2011, 08:38 PM
Bean Sídhe is actually the Irish for Female Fairy/ (mystical spirit). Bean- woman, Fear- Man. Firbolg (literally bellymen) is another type of monster that is used in some role playing that is an example of this.

Male, Irish, Straight, playing since just after tau came out

I like pretty much everything except Tau- dull and eldar- never liked elves in any form, and most of the eldar players I know are tw@s. I particularly like marines in the normal 40k environment, and play escher in necromunda- my own little favourite corner of the 40k universe.

One thing I never understood was why people would want female marines, can anyone give me the reasons why? (other than the GW explanation is medically incorrect).

One Issue that was raised before was Malton Necromancer was Homosexuality in the 40k Universe. Theres been some slight mention of it in the Cain books but none other. To my mind all marines are chemically castrated eunuchs, but with definite gay undertones. I wonder what its like to be gay in the 41st millenium, would it be embraced to strengthen the military sparta style? I somehow doubt the imperium is the kind of place that will embrace diversity.

eldargal
03-01-2011, 02:29 AM
Well, thats actually a gross, gross simplification of Spartan culture, and also remember than the Spartan warrior class dwindled due to institutionalised homosexuality. Not the greatest model for fighting force to be honest, much mythologising and nonsense written about the Spartans. Spartan women were also trained to fight and expected to protect their property in the advent of invasion. One could argue that they were the Spartans Imperial Guard while the men were its Space Marines. Perhaps I'll try and work it into my doctoral thesis, I'll ask my supervisor next time I see him.:rolleyes:
Well fair enough, my Wyches are all female too, though I'm tempted to have a few boys in such to entertain the girls. The Banshees are all girls in my Craftworld army, and are going to stay that way, but the fluff does point to male Banshees.



Well then, yes. That's something GW should address. My comments were based on what could be true for a repressive regime, but if the background information has already made it explicit, then this is a deficiency. I also tend to think of the I-guard like the Spartans. In Spartan society, men fought, women had children for the state - end of discussion. There were only two ways for a Spartan to be buried with honors. For a man, he had to die in battle. For a woman, she had to die in child birth. That was it.

The idea that females are hard to sculpt is bunk because I've been doing it for years, and professionals have been doing it for decades. GW just needs to get their act together.



As I said, not in MY army. Wyches are not Wörlocks. ;) I've actually resculpted some of those torsos back into female (easy to do considering Elves ... erm, Eldar ... are near androgynous anyway :p).



And again, not in my army ... if I played Craftworlders. Traditionally, bean sídhe are by definition female, and I don't see a need to change that here. In this case I'd go against the fluff, because the fluff is questionable ... for me at least.




Regarding homosexuality, there has been some speculation that one of the Dark Angels dark secrets is homosexuality, due to the similarities between the primarch and a homosexual English poet, Lionel Johnson. He wrote a poem 'the Dark Angel'. I could see the homosexuality working for a bunch of 'celibate' space monks that are divorced from the population. Insitutionalised buggery didn't work out so well for the Spartans, who developed a cultural distaste for women resulting in a dwindling warrior class. Its all quite amusing when you think of the modern stereotype of homosexuals as being effeminate (which is nonsense), to think of these big, tough Spartans shying away from women.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Imperium has moved beyond our modern obsession with sexuality. I consider the lack of a SoB vow of celibacy as cirumstantial evidence of this. Cannon fodder is cannon fodder, what it does with its penis is irrelevent, and if it gets pregnant thats more cannon fodder.

Grailkeeper
03-01-2011, 06:05 AM
Perhaps more like the Theban Band then.

I'd forgotten that about the Dark angels,

*may be too controversial even for the Obliette*
Another possible issue you might look into is abortion and contraception. Many dictatorial regimes ban abortion on the basis that a high birthrate will allow for a bigger army in 20 years or so. This was in part the reason why Mussolini banned it (also to curry favour with the church) The ****s banned abortion (except for those ehty didn't like where it was often mandatory) and introduced motherhood medals for mothers who gave birth to certain high numbers of children- for example 8 kids resulted in a gold mothers cross.

Necron2.0
03-01-2011, 06:38 AM
Apologies everyone. This is totally an aside. I beg your indulgence.


Well, thats actually a gross, gross simplification of Spartan culture.

Well yes, of course. No culture can be summed up in three or four sentences.


Insitutionalised buggery didn't work out so well for the Spartans, who developed a cultural distaste for women resulting in a dwindling warrior class.

Interesting. I wonder if this is one of those things that historians have multiple divergent opinions on. I've not studied history academically - only as a layman - but accounts I've read attributed the decline of Sparta to military over extension and inflexible military doctrine. Basically, the idea was the Spartans went to war too often, they fought the exact same way every time, and their enemies adapted and developed new strategies that the Spartan rigidity could not fathom. They've always been an example to me of what you get if you prosecute war to the dictates of a rigidly dogmatic codex.

I also hesitate to call what the Greeks practiced homosexuality, only in as much as I think those terms (homosexuality and heterosexuality) describing preferences. As I understand it, the ancient Greeks didn't have preferences. They swang EVERYWAY - gender, species ... didn't care. :eek:

Nosmo75
03-01-2011, 06:50 AM
Kroot Mercs: My first army. Fun fluff, fun rules, lots of variety and interesting models. I wish GW would bring Kroot Mercs back, even if it was just a short White Dwarf army list.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=3400020

Kroot Mercenaries are sixth from the bottom of the list. I know it's not the same as a regular 40K release, but it's something. =)

eldargal
03-01-2011, 07:01 AM
Well, I have studied it academically, and while it is certainly true that rigidity in combat doctrine led to their defeat against Thebes at the Battle of Iforgetwhere, the numbers of the Spartan warrior class had steadily declined since the end of the war with Athens to the point they could no longer recover manpower from a serious defeat nor control the Helots.

Well, the Spartans certainly had a preference for chaps. I mean even on their wedding night they had to shave the bride and stuff her in mens clothes before the chap could perform.:rolleyes:


Apologies everyone. This is totally an aside. I beg your indulgence.

Well yes, of course. No culture can be summed up in three or four sentences.

Interesting. I wonder if this is one of those things that historians have multiple divergent opinions on. I've not studied history academically - only as a layman - but accounts I've read attributed the decline of Sparta to military over extension and inflexible military doctrine. Basically, the idea was the Spartans went to war too often, they fought the exact same way every time, and their enemies adapted and developed new strategies that the Spartan rigidity could not fathom. They've always been an example to me of what you get if you prosecute war to the dictates of a rigidly dogmatic codex.

I also hesitate to call what the Greeks practiced homosexuality, only in as much as I think those terms (homosexuality and heterosexuality) describing preferences. As I understand it, the ancient Greeks didn't have preferences. They swang EVERYWAY - gender, species ... didn't care. :eek:

Grailkeeper
03-01-2011, 08:07 AM
I've 4 years ancient greek + two years classical studies. (altough only at secondary school level, and my ancient greek teacher died about halfway through the course) I also did Law and history for one year at university before switching to pure law.

Necron2.0
03-01-2011, 08:51 AM
Sorry again, all. Last OT comment from me - promise (don't want anyone going all Warseer moderator d**chebag on me).

For myself, I'm a total techno-goob - Dual major in computer science and electrical engineering, with a dual minor in mathematics and art appreciation (i.e.: reformed career student). Oh, and I also had a masters in public inebriation (Thesis: "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy!!")


Well, the Spartans certainly had a preference for chaps. I mean even on their wedding night they had to shave the bride and stuff her in mens clothes before the chap could perform.:rolleyes:

Oh that wasn't gay. Naw. That was them having a fetish. It's like when guys like for their girlfriends to dress up in their clothing and ... Ok, I'm totally stretching there. :p Yes, I remember reading that and going "Uh-huh. Yeeeaaaaahhhh."

Emerald Rose Widow
03-12-2011, 04:12 PM
I'm Female (i mean im male to female trans, but that doesnt make me less of a woman)

I would love to play armies with women in them, hell I think the lack of female pieces is one of the things that turns me off of the imperium of man armies. I think if the sisters were to be updated and brought out some new plastic models i would be all over that.


as for armies, i am only working on the one now because i am just starting.

Tyranid- I love how my tyranid are turning out actually, and tactics for tyranid are fun. really overall its my favorite army, and im having a ton of fun painting them.

As for opinions on the others:

Imperium of Man- I just blanket them all in together, because the style and look just dont interest me. I mean the sisters look like a lot of fun, but with the all metal army im really not going to touch them anytime soon. If they get updated I am all for it though.

Necron- I find them very interesting, they look like fun, and i had played necron back when i was playing dawn of war. so might play them some day.

Tau- this is an army i definitely want to play, they look like a lot of fun, and i love their models, they look so sharp.

Orks- they are cool, and there is a lot of creativity you can exercise with them for your models, but they just dont interest me to be honest.

CSM- same reasons i dont like space marines, though they are far more cool than SM to me.

Daemons- Eh, not a fan, dont know why

Eldar- I would play them, maybe, we'll see, i do love their models though, lots of fun

Dark Eldar- They have lots of female models, which I am all for, and they are a neat army, the hellions for example i love the look of. It is an army I would definitely try.


So there are my two cents