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View Full Version : Whirlwind? Worth it?



Jearden
08-31-2009, 05:41 PM
Im a Space Wolf player.

Ive been considering taking out my Lemun Russ Exterminator (since Im going to lose it soon anyway according to rumor) and replacing it with 2 Whirlwinds. I was just curious, is it worth it?

Seems like it might be nice, I can hide it in cover and just fire all day long, and using the Castellan missles means that no cover save is gained. I spent 208 points on the Lemun Russ, and would spend 170 on 2 Whirlwinds.

So I ask again... worth it?

Timbo
08-31-2009, 06:02 PM
The trend in Marine armies these days is towards the predator destructor over the ww. The predator has good frontal armour, and against all mech armies it can at least try to pop a transport with its autocannon. Against horde armies it's good at thinning the herd with 8 bs4 shots out to 36". For the same points cost as a ww you get a lot more versatility IMHO.

crazyredpraetorian
08-31-2009, 06:10 PM
For that cost, I would add another squad in a rhino. You can't have too many Wolves running around.

Lord Inquisitor
08-31-2009, 06:12 PM
Against hordes the ww are awesome.

Chumbalaya
08-31-2009, 07:21 PM
Whirlwinds provide a big blast that negates cover, good for entrenched enemies or baddies that just lost their transports.

They don't so much as tickle armor though, so you'll need something to knock transports out so you can shell the occupants.

If you're dropping an Exterminator, you may just want to field a pair of Predators instead. Same role, same weapons, just twice as many.

Vulkan He'stan
08-31-2009, 07:38 PM
very, mine killed my bros fire warrior squads tons of times. a squad a turn

Ming
08-31-2009, 08:09 PM
I dunno. The ability to use a Lehman Russ is a pure Spacewolves joy. You are not building a ultramarines variant. Be the wolf. Characters, long fangs, packs, scouts, Russes.

MajorSoB
08-31-2009, 08:59 PM
Whirlwinds have all but vanished in 5th edition due to transparent over. Armor 11 vehicles are very easy to glance or destroy long range now so it is almost pointless to try and get one or two good shots a game from a vehicle that will get wrecked. Even with horde armies it is hard to make back the points you would spend on the whirlwind. More troops choices never hurt not a somewhat useless heavy.

crazyredpraetorian
08-31-2009, 09:48 PM
I dunno. The ability to use a Lehman Russ is a pure Spacewolves joy. You are not building a ultramarines variant. Be the wolf. Characters, long fangs, packs, scouts, Russes.

The Space Wolves are supposed to lose the Russ next month.

Katie Drake
08-31-2009, 11:15 PM
If you're going to take a Whirlwind, do it in pairs. Always. One Whirlie is far too easy to disable or destroy. Taking two also helps ensure that you hit one target very hard each turn. If you focus your fire, sometimes you can even cause decent damage to a squad of Marines or similar, and you can force multiple pinning checks per turn (each one at a -1 modifier thanks to the ordnance barrage rule! :D).

Dstar
09-01-2009, 03:22 AM
whirlwinds are really good at taking out anything in carapace armor (and i do mean storm troopers nobz and aspect warriors).
remember if you don't mind scattering i.e. playing an ork horde fire indirectly then the cover save is worked out from the center of the template so hiding behind other units doesn't help. and at 85 points they are such a great choice in small games.
another advantage of being 85 points is its not worth a lascannon to most people if you've got a few other heavier tanks and transports being a bit scary you will find your whirlwinds make it the end of the game when your vindicator did not.

Jearden
09-01-2009, 06:33 AM
Im going to wait until the new Codex regardless, but replaceing the Russ is going to be hard. I cant tell you the number of times it had helped turn the game in my favor, and if nothing else, it becomes the focus of fire leaving my Predator Annilator to hunt and kill.

It just time to start thinking about my Heavy choices. they arent going to change that much I dont think.

The Russ is going to be hard to replace.

Bloodiedknight
09-01-2009, 02:25 PM
Personally I love using whirlwinds against my usual imperial guard or eldar opponents. They're lovely and cheap for the number of troops they can take out.

Droofus
09-01-2009, 02:31 PM
Space wolves are an assault army. Given the mechanized armies that we see running around these days, I think you'd be better off with a vehicle that can kill enemy transports so that your line squads can assault the poor *******s who get out.

So I guess my answer would be "no" unless you face a lot of horde type armies in your area. Whirlwinds are all but useless against a mechanized opponent, unless said opponent is running trukks or raiders.

Racharg
09-01-2009, 03:07 PM
If you're going to take a Whirlwind, do it in pairs. Always. One Whirlie is far too easy to disable or destroy. Taking two also helps ensure that you hit one target very hard each turn. If you focus your fire, sometimes you can even cause decent damage to a squad of Marines or similar, and you can force multiple pinning checks per turn (each one at a -1 modifier thanks to the ordnance barrage rule! :D).

I agree about taking 2, now if only I could get the darn things to stop scattering!

The Lord
09-01-2009, 03:14 PM
I personally wouldn't take one on an all comers list as their are much nicer things in the codex to spend my points on. even if you knew you were going to be facing up against guard, orks or tau it seems like most people are using transports these days and they are of limited use.

Yhcrana
09-01-2009, 06:25 PM
I like the whirlwind, a friend of mine regularly takes 2 in his Dark Angels and they always do well, even against marines they cause a large amount of hits and so saves do get failed.

Versus other lightly armoured oponents they excel and are great for taking out guard command squads hiding in cover.

I think they provide the advantage of indirect fire, which is something marines lack.
The ability to target a scoring unit hiding in terrain or out of sight is huge in any objective games.

PopFenton
09-01-2009, 06:32 PM
I've tried them numerous times and I have almost always found myself wanting a different heavy option in their place. They are indeed cheap but are really easy to make into just a box.

biteymcrunrun
09-02-2009, 03:05 AM
ww are well worth these days, due to the increase in imperial guard armies. ww are great against entrenched guard due to negating cover, and still ignoring their armour. As a space marine player, guard armies are often my downfall, and ww help deal with guard.

Anggul
09-02-2009, 03:26 AM
For the amazingly cheap price, they are worth it. A 85pts tank which wounds eldar on 2's and ignores their armour, and ignores cover? Who wouldn't? Not that aspect warriors are all it's good for of course, but it's the most expensive thing they can blow away. Easily makes it's points multiple times in a game.

Arnihs
09-02-2009, 05:00 AM
i would take a LS typhoon over a WW since its faster an people tend to ignore it unless there playing a horde army.

Droofus
09-02-2009, 07:57 AM
ww are well worth these days, due to the increase in imperial guard armies. ww are great against entrenched guard due to negating cover, and still ignoring their armour. As a space marine player, guard armies are often my downfall, and ww help deal with guard.

You must see a lot of horde guard. I usually see mechanized variants - either chimeras or valkyrie based. Against such a list, the Whirly is good once you get them out of the transports. But so are bolters and flamers, and you still have the problem of getting them out in the first place.

GMort.
09-02-2009, 08:08 AM
In my opinion the Predator is a better option.

However if the rumours are true then the Space wolves are getting a Land Raider Variant which should be a direct replacement for the Exterminator anyway.

40k Addict
09-02-2009, 09:02 AM
I think the predator destructor can just pore out shots, with 10 shots at bs 4, 8 of which are at 36". This spells death for hordes, and the increased front armor adds survivability, especially in a mech list! Of course the 10 shots can usually be equalled by the WW, and ignore cover, so the question is really one of personal preference!

Twilit
09-02-2009, 11:44 AM
I have a lot more respect for the WW these days because of the ordnance barrage rules. The other day the Marine player I was facing used to pop a Chimera and a Russ, shocking the hell out of me. Meanwhile his predator annihilator sat there and whiffed with everything.

Hokiecow
09-03-2009, 05:56 AM
Against non SM armies, SURE!

mercer
09-03-2009, 06:06 AM
I haven't used a Whirlwnid before, so my comments are purely paper view.

If I played against a lot of horde and foot armies, then yes. But with mech armies becmoing more and more popular you need to pop that armour before using the Whirlwind, which means you won't get to use it as often.

I would get one bases upon what armies you play against most often only.

R3con
09-03-2009, 07:50 AM
My whirlwinds are used as converted Exorsists =)

Jwolf
09-03-2009, 08:03 AM
Yes, Whirlwinds are decent choices for the points, and can be very good against certain armies. Sometimes it's best to Reserve them and let the tougher units open transports for a couple turns before you bring them on, as they aren't very good against armor, but draw deadly amounts of fire from enemies who are vulnerable to them and have firepower. Of course, hiding one and encouraging fire on it may very well allow your assault elements to avoid some fire, so there is good reason to deploy it as well.

Droofus
09-03-2009, 08:32 AM
I have a lot more respect for the WW these days because of the ordnance barrage rules. The other day the Marine player I was facing used to pop a Chimera and a Russ, shocking the hell out of me. Meanwhile his predator annihilator sat there and whiffed with everything.

Hang on. How did it blow up a leman russ? IIRC, the barrage rules state that if the blast marker hole is over the vehicle then the vehicle is hit on side armor which is too high for the whirly to hurt, and if the blast marker hole is NOT over the vehicle, then the strength will not be good enough to penetrate rear armor.

Whitehorn
09-03-2009, 09:28 AM
Whirlwinds are seriously underrated. With cover so strong in 5th edition, denying it is a powerful ability. Being able to in cover yourself and fire, ignoring enemy cover gives them increased protection too.

I was actually advising a Space Wolf player last night to not take his 2 Whirlwinds in a Space Marine dominated metagame, but he killed 3 terminators over 2 turns with 1. Hitting several models at once is going to push some dice to land on those glorious 1s! :)

The pinning and AP makes them an excellent horde slayer. I often take down Ork lootas and Shokk guns with mine.

ggg
09-03-2009, 03:15 PM
The fashion these days is for the now cheaper Predator but I don't see the appeal myself.

Whirlwinds in pairs are great in an all Mech marine army. You build a wall with rhinos to keep those hordes of orks at bay and lob s5 ordnance over the top. Instant pate`. Alternatively, they are the best way to deal with guard platoons- in cover or otherwise. Despite the obvious attractions, most people can't afford chimeras to mech their guard up so you often find 25 man platoons of troops presenting obvious targets.

Repeated shelling of that one tactical squad sitting on an objective in cover and your opponent will get annoyed - and pinning / leadership tests are still worrisome for any marine player, particularly when that tactical squad is 7" from their board edge. Don't expect miracles as you might from a vindicator, but the annoyance factor is far greater. No one likes to see big templates held over their units regardless of the outcome. Ww's tend to attract infiltrators - snikrot and scouts etc, but not deep strikers- opponents don't seem to think 85 points is worth stranding their 200pts of drop pod Ironclad etc.

I don't like whirlwinds with gun line armies. They work with agressive armies that push forward and keep the enemy at a distance from your whirlwinds at your back line. So if your wolves are mounted up (perhaps on their four legged friends under the new codex!) this could work for you.

Swat up on pinning and barrage rules and there are real benefits to be enjoyed. I've never played an infantry eldar army but would love to with a pair of wws.

whoopxi
09-03-2009, 08:38 PM
I love whirlwinds.

Even though they are not good at dealing with armor against some of the more popular transports out there they are not completely worthless. Many a times I have popped/crippled a rhino, predator or chimera thanks to the barrage hitting side armor.

Deej
09-07-2009, 05:09 AM
Would you recommend Whirlwinds against 'Nid armies? I haven't got the SM codex handy, but I'm guessing they'll be rather good at taking out Genestealers and gaunts.

Anggul
09-12-2009, 02:42 AM
Whirlwinds are easily worth their points against non-MEQ armies, they butcher my rather expensive aspect warriors easily.

Cptn5thCompany
09-14-2009, 01:41 PM
With my WW defensively. I field two and with one i drop mines to help block objectives while the other one targets any squad getting to close.

asmodai650
09-18-2009, 11:30 AM
Jearden, did you ever try a game with the whirlwind yet? I played several games in 4th edition where I would run 3 of them at a time. One deployed in the center, and one on each edge to get the maximum amount of coverage so that at least two whrilwinds could hit a single target each turn. They worked great pinning units or making them take those 25% checks.

DarkLink
09-18-2009, 02:53 PM
If you could scrounge up the parts, I'd get both. The only real difference is the turret and sponson, all of which could be magnified. That way you could pick and choose. If you can find something to represent the Whirlwind missile launcher, then get a predator and magnetize the sponsons so you can remove them.

If you're facing plenty of MEQ, I'd probably go with the predator. MEQ's tend to be mechanized and have smaller squad sizes, so you can probably put out more wounds with a predator (not to mention do more damage to vehicles). If you face lots of non-MEQ (someone mentioned Tyranids), whirlwinds are great. If you face a mix, then get one of each.