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RocketRollRebel
09-01-2009, 01:48 AM
So with the prevalence of mech armies in tournament settings I'm wondering if foot sloggers (besides tyranids) are still a viable competitive choice? Are horde orks even that nasty anymore? I ask this partly because I currently run 2 mech armies (IG and BA). Gun line IG isnt what it was in 4th edition (mech vets FTW!) and I've never been a fan of marines with out either a vehicle or a jump pack. But lately tho I've been chewing over the idea of a horde style World Eaters army with things like dreads and a land raider in support but would this be a competitive build? Whats your thoughts on this?

FoxPhoenix135
09-01-2009, 01:57 AM
I think it can be... if you combine large platoons together and add some force multipliers such as straken or even a lord commissar... although I would suggest the former over the latter.

Glocknal
09-01-2009, 09:59 AM
The tough thing would be the prevelence of transports who can move 12" and scoot away from charge range. You would have to take somekind of outflanking or DS to deal with move ablitily of transports. Running across the board will not get you into charge range before turn 3. Armies like the IG and Orks with lootas will shoot you to pieces by then.

RogueMarine
09-01-2009, 10:01 AM
it does seem in 5th the way to go is Mech, and i myself can't find a working army to foot slog

RocketRollRebel
09-01-2009, 12:12 PM
Yeah this question mostly came out of an idea for a new army that wasnt all mounted. I do have plenty of IG to play what ever style I want but I'm looking for something new. I was thinking a horde style WE army would be interesting but I do see lots of draw backs to it. Meh I may just say screw it and go for it anyway. Part of me wants to believe that it could work! haha

R3con
09-01-2009, 01:13 PM
I think with 2 of the 3 gametypes being objective based you need the speed that a mech army can bring you.

Majorcrash
09-01-2009, 01:35 PM
With my IG, I tried a variation, I have a platoon that sits an shoots, a platoon that part of is mounted and the other half advances behind. If they kill the transports then they resume being all on foot. If not then I can use the sloggers to assault while the mounted, dismount and shoot. Accompaning them is a transports with ogryns. An extra little surpirse. Most are not expecting a aggressive IG army, and have to reconsider their plans.:rolleyes:

Twilit
09-01-2009, 02:01 PM
I find the only even moderately effective foot-sloggers are a firing line with long range and some fast response elements. IG with sentinels or Vets in Chimeras, Tau with Kroot, etc.

athelu
09-01-2009, 02:04 PM
The only marines I have seen that can make foot-slogging work is Black templars, and you have to max out the squad sizes to make it across the table. Footslogging is better for horde armies - where the ubiquitous 4+ cover save of 5th Edition makes them worth models twice their points. Marines are too precious to walk.

EmperorEternalXIX
09-01-2009, 02:34 PM
Marines are indeed too precious to walk.

I don't take the transport for speed, I take them for survivability. Units that can take some heat, I won't transport at all. In my usual list I walk three dreads and a bunch of assault terminators across the board, and they tend to survive for a long time despite their inherent speed and being fired on a lot.

Prevalence of targets is key; the enemy needs to have tons of targets of comparable defense so the damage is spread out somewhat. My three dreadnoughts performs much better than using two, for example (but damn do I hate having to take the master of the forge...)

Droofus
09-01-2009, 02:36 PM
I think it could work. But you'd have to do a mix of mech and footslogging. All footslogging will leave your Bezerkers painfully exposed. The land raider in particular would be useful in this type of list, as you could stick a squad in it and rocket forward while the rest of your Bezerkers would leg it behind it. I also guarantee that you'll have an easier time in Kill Point missions. Transports seem to be the number one source of kill points to my opponent when I run anything MEQ related (this obviously doesn't apply to Eldar or land raider spam lists).

The problem of course is if you look at how many extra bezerkers you get for leaving the squads rhino out (a little under two points-wise) then it becomes a lot less attractive, especially considering you're likely to lose those bezerkers on the way up.

Timbo
09-01-2009, 02:41 PM
Exactly. Rhinos are just so cheap, that a marine foot army is not really any more numerous than a mech one. If you cut 4 or 5 rhinos you barely get an extra squad, and you lose so much mobility and survivability.

The Lord
09-01-2009, 03:26 PM
I think horde orks and horde guard can still be competitive, especially so in the current meta game where suddenly everyones meltas are of little use. you just have make sure you are playing to the scenario and have a plan because you will not have time to move those footsloggers halfway across the board to secure an objective

islyfe
09-01-2009, 03:35 PM
footslogging orks are just begging to get burned/hacked down by seer coucils

Chumbalaya
09-01-2009, 09:11 PM
Guard can do it, they just need a LOT of guns and assault buffers.

Obviously Daemons, Tyranids, and Necrons can give it a shot, but they've got more problems than just having no transports.

Chadmack
09-01-2009, 11:04 PM
Marines can do this well but only in bulk. 50 marines for every 1000 points seems to work ok.

RocketRollRebel
09-02-2009, 04:29 AM
Guard can do it, they just need a LOT of guns and assault buffers.

Obviously Daemons, Tyranids, and Necrons can give it a shot, but they've got more problems than just having no transports.

See the reason I find mech vet guard to be superior now is the way that it shuts down virtually all of your opponents anti-infantry fire while making all of you melta/plasma guns BS4. 5 fire points was the greatest thing to ever happen to the chimera! The great boost to mobility that it gives you is incredibly helpful. Static infantry mobs go down to sneeky assault too easy. Outflanking units or things like a lone lictor can make a mess of your guardsmen. Also I cant tell you how many times I've watched my mob of 30 guardsmen get hosed by a thunderfire cannon leaving me with 6 or 7 gore spattered guardsmen after it fires at me once lol.

Glocknal
09-02-2009, 08:43 AM
Not knowing the abilities of the T-Cannon, how closesly are you grouping your men together? I usualyl place mine in cover, and losing more than 3-4 from a large blast template is rare. My 30 man squad once took 3 whirlwind shots, then defeated a 6 man bikesquad in assault over 3 turns of melee.

40k Addict
09-02-2009, 08:55 AM
Well I ran a gunline marine army for a while, with a pair of dakka preds, a thunder fire cannon, a squad of terminators to throw at the oponent, a chapter master and some sternguard, and it worked to an extent.

The problem is that with the prevalence of mech, anti-tank weapons are either out of range (melta guns) or to expensive (lascannons eg las predator). However after about 5 games on vassal with this list, I dropped a squad and took a bunch of razorbacks to add firepower and survivability, not even as transports, but as terrain!

Chumbalaya
09-02-2009, 09:15 AM
See the reason I find mech vet guard to be superior now is the way that it shuts down virtually all of your opponents anti-infantry fire while making all of you melta/plasma guns BS4. 5 fire points was the greatest thing to ever happen to the chimera! The great boost to mobility that it gives you is incredibly helpful. Static infantry mobs go down to sneeky assault too easy. Outflanking units or things like a lone lictor can make a mess of your guardsmen. Also I cant tell you how many times I've watched my mob of 30 guardsmen get hosed by a thunderfire cannon leaving me with 6 or 7 gore spattered guardsmen after it fires at me once lol.

I would largely agree with that. The best way to make infantry guard viable is by running lots of guns to knock out transports early (autocannons) and set up buffer units to protect your from outflankers and the like. They chew through 10 guardsmen and get exposed to a whole army of firepower, or have to sit around munching on 30 stubborn guardsmen all game.

brother drakist
09-02-2009, 12:48 PM
2/3 of the missions are objective based + transports are pretty cheap = less footslogging armies. At first it sounds like a good idea, then you come across an objective mission where your not making it across the board. Personally I would like footslogger armies to work but it's not happening in this edition unless you go horde, or get pretty lucky.

However I would encourage you to play a footslogger army if it's what you envision your army to be. Always play what you like, worry about being the "bestest" later.

Unpresentable
09-02-2009, 01:17 PM
I`d have to agree with Drakist. If you want to try a footslogging WE army. Give it a shot. You can always add a few Rinos later if need be.

As for advice on the list, Maybe include some deep striking Termies with combi meltas. I have stopped a dual Land raider spearhead dead in its tracks with them before.

mkerr
09-02-2009, 02:54 PM
But lately tho I've been chewing over the idea of a horde style World Eaters army with things like dreads and a land raider in support but would this be a competitive build? Whats your thoughts on this?

I think you should follow your passion. While mechanised marines may have an advantage over non-mechanised, it's not insurmountable. Build an army with units that you love and want to play (instead of worrying about it being hyper-competitive). It sounds like you already have a couple of competitive armies, so why not build a fun one now?

I'd shy away from Chaos Dreadnoughts though. There are some pretty nice models in that range, but "crazed" keeps them from being fun on the table. Defilers are a lot more fun (and a lot more reliable).

Jwolf
09-02-2009, 03:06 PM
Dreadnoughts are awesome. Pure footslogging armies need to be light on expensive options, and still suffer a lot. I don't think you'll have a lot of success in tournament play with pure footslogger CSM, but you might enjoy taking them out for a spin anyway.

Superbran
09-02-2009, 03:21 PM
To make a foot slogging marines work, I would suggest running shrike with a squad of assault termies (infiltrated) and then rock some scouts on foot or with a speeder (infiltrated). possibly back these guys up with some drop pod dreads and you might be able to do some damage. Not the best list but it might be fun to try out. As for tournament play, I think you need the mobility of mech to deal with most missions having objectives.

Superbran

Dunadan
09-04-2009, 05:16 PM
What about Grey Knights? Can they footslog, or are LRs a must?

Kanaellars
09-10-2009, 11:18 AM
Just have to add in another option...

October 3rd new wolves hit. Some people love them, some people hate them, but this army will allow you to field squads of Wolf mounted cavalry.... Space Marines with Toughness 5 Strength 5 and RENDING...

No transports there!

Back them up with large packs of ferocious wolves.

It might not win competitions, but it is very different, and will be FUN to see.

heh

Duke
09-10-2009, 11:39 AM
Im just going to assume 100% footslogging or mixed/ Mech.

All in all you will be fighting an uphill battle. Blood Angels can do it (If you count Jump packs as 'footslogging) But I think that you will have a very tough time with objective grabbing.

If you were to do it your going to need to be able to stun/ imobilise enemy transports, so things like Autocannons/ Hvy Bolters/ Missle launchers/ Assault cannons are vital. If you take out their transports then it levels the playing field, and now you have a numbers advantage (All else equal).

Duke

TSINI
09-10-2009, 11:58 AM
i havent got much experience of playing with or against mech armies, but i'd say for the price of a transport, you can buff out your ranks with some cheap, no extras troops, you could use them as the shield, instead of the tank armour, let them soak up the damage until you can unleashyour assault/gunline

the prblem is speed, something i learnt steeply in my first 5th ed game, ork bikers making it to your frontline in turn 1 is so scary, i pretty much think it makes bikes as broken as hell, not only do they get the awesome saves, but they can negate you even getting a shot off at them...

so if you havent got any transports, you HAVE to play the waiting game, you simply can't take the hurt to the enemy's heart quickly enough. even without being shot up, falling back, pinned or anything else, a squad that moves its 6" every turn can only go 36" the entire game, with running thrown in you may make an enemy objective by turn 6, but with a transport, you can be there turn 3, and thats a lot more time for kickin ***

hereticus
09-11-2009, 01:31 AM
The guard army I am about to start will be predominantly footsloggers. Full Platoon gunline + 50 man conscript squad and 50 man guard squad outflanking with Tallarn dude (300 lasgun shots anyone) backed up by outflanking penal legion just for annoyance value.

sorienor
09-11-2009, 04:39 AM
Horde Orks can be viable, mainly because Ghazghkull makes them viable. Fearless and a automatic 6" fleet is pretty nasty. Add in a KFF mek to get a few more survivors across the board and you've got a shot.

Personally though, when I want a competitive build I play a combination of both horde and mechanized. battlewagons & trukks with some 20 or 30 boy mobs on foot.

Fowlplaychiken
09-12-2009, 12:32 PM
my chaos army footslogs just fine. 2k pts:

1 DP with wings and lash
3 defiler with all cc weapons
3 dreads with all cc weapons
2x squads of 20 berzerker with powerfist and rhino (two rhinos act as a screen).

leeroy jenkins anyone?


also, my horde orks are killer. 2k pts:

3x mobs of 30 chooppa boys with PK nob each (two have 3 rokkits, one has 2 rokkits)
12 tankbusta's on foot
13 loota's
BM with KFF
6 nob bikers (BP, 3x PK, 2x BC, 1x Painboy)
9 killa kan with grotzooka

Smashes things up just fine:-D

avatar8481
09-14-2009, 01:30 PM
Footslogging is terrible:

if you showed up at 2k with:

1 DP with wings and lash
3 defiler with all cc weapons
3 dreads with all cc weapons
2x squads of 20 berzerker with powerfist and rhino (two rhinos act as a screen).

I'd tell you to just put your models away. At 2k I take:

1 9-bike Seer Council
3 Dire Avenger Wave serpents with TW-BL (1 extra farseer)
2 FD Wave Serpents with TL-SL
2 Fire Prisms

So 7 tank hulls, all of which you'd need to be in CC to hurt so you'll never be in combat with them, and even then would need 4+ or 6+ to hit, while I can kill your whole army without even having to get out of the tanks.

Mech wins period.

RocketRollRebel
09-14-2009, 02:02 PM
Just have to add in another option...

October 3rd new wolves hit. Some people love them, some people hate them, but this army will allow you to field squads of Wolf mounted cavalry.... Space Marines with Toughness 5 Strength 5 and RENDING...

No transports there!

Back them up with large packs of ferocious wolves.

It might not win competitions, but it is very different, and will be FUN to see.

heh

yeah I've been getting pretty excited over this. Space Wolves and IG (vostroyans) were the two armies that I was considering when I started 40k (went with IG btw :p) and its looking like space wolves could make for a very fun army. I'm looking for something a little less dressy and high class in an army anyway. I play Vostroyan IG who are blinged to the hilt and BA who are classy vampires (as I like to think of them). So some viking like guys in power armor could be a nice change of pace.

DarkLink
09-14-2009, 10:18 PM
You need some way of moving quickly. Mech does this.

Mech also keeps your guys from getting killed, either through screening or embarkation.

There are ways of doing non-mech, but you need to be able to move fast (bikes or jump infantry), and you MUST be able to kill other armie's vehicles, which in 5th usually means drive-by meltas or vehicles with big guns.

Inquisitor Malaclypse
09-18-2009, 01:24 AM
But lately tho I've been chewing over the idea of a horde style World Eaters army with things like dreads and a land raider in support but would this be a competitive build? Whats your thoughts on this?
don't know about horde style World Eaters on foot, but i'd recommend uber jumpy World Eaters using C:BA (the DC rules would be great for a 'gladiator unit'; this is an idea from the guys as BoLS, BTW) or even the standard marine codex with Shrike and jump pack spam as that would give you 12" move, potential 6" fleet, and then 6" assault.

other than that, the only viable foot slogging units would be CSM, BT, and SoB. i'd like to see 20 bolters let loose, though i guess if you have the models and you're playing at 3000+ pts. 20 Plague Marines could be a cruel thing to do to your opponent.



if you showed up at 2k with:
1 DP with wings and lash
3 defiler with all cc weapons
3 dreads with all cc weapons
2x squads of 20 berzerker with powerfist and rhino (two rhinos act as a screen).

I'd tell you to just put your models away.

i know you're trying to prove a point here, but this isn't necessary. any one who's played this game for any amount of time knows that building a good list is just the start of being a good general.

that all goes to crap if your opponent is as good as you or better, and depends on the great equalizer that is luck, and that's not to mention about the terrain you're playing.

i saw the list you posted, and i could see it winning often, but no player or list is unbeatable.

avatar8481
09-18-2009, 08:53 AM
i saw the list you posted, and i could see it winning often, but no player or list is unbeatable.

No argument here. As BolsCon proved with lists that on paper look like crap winning everything, the list is hardly the only thing that matters. Just arguably the most important.

asmodai650
09-18-2009, 11:16 AM
I think that a foot slogging list is completely viable. Several berzerker squads, backed up by a couple of defilers, maybe a dread, and a few summoned deamons should work. Use the deamons as a screen and have the defilers pound on a unit a turn, starting with the biggest threat. Maybe also use a squad of chosen to outflank to help with contesting objectives. Just keep one squad on your home objective to claim it and to help protect the defilers.

weeble1000
09-18-2009, 01:10 PM
Since 5th ed, I've incorporated a lot more mech into my guard army, but aside from two vet valks, I don't use it for speed.
Vehicle-wise I run 1 Vendetta, 1 Valkyrie, 1 LRBT, 1 LR Demolisher, and 3 Chimeras

The Chimeras primarily protect my command squads and extend the order radius. Before I had them, my PC squads were getting blown up by templates before they could do a whole lot. I use the valks pretty aggressively and they tend to be good for late game objective grabs or contests, but the real strength and meat of the army is the infantry.

I run two platoons with a total of 9 infantry squads. With the PC squads and vets, I've got 13 troop units for objective games. Its hard to kill everybody, especially since a lot of armies have gone a little more heavy on the AT firepower. Against non-horde armies, troop units are my primary target. When I set up across from an opponent, a lot of times I'm looking at 4 or 5 troop units. Once those units are gone, the worst I can do is a draw as long as I don't get tabled.

There's always somewhere to hide a guard squad while foot-slogging towards an objective, and if there isn't, they're all disposable, so one exposed squad can cover two or three squads behind it.

The biggest problem I have is keeping tough units off of my objectives, but with 3+ objectives in sieze ground, I'm guaranteed to have two objectives at opposite ends of the board. That, along with cheep, disposable blocking units tends to keep at least one objective in my hands.

I think foot slogging is a perfectly viable option as long as you can afford to walk your boys into a death trap. For me, guard squads are designed to move and get shot at/ assaulted. Having twice as many models as my opponent lets me take ownership of the battlefield and then spend the rest of my time maintaining that hold. As long as my opponent is wasting bolt shells and thunder hammers on units I've consigned to death from turn 1, I'm happy.

Plus, with the guard rules, my 9 objective-grabbing troops become two stuborn kill points in an Annihilation game. With a brace of commissars, nine easy targets become two tar pits keeping assault units away from the more vulnerable units that give away kill points like so much candy.

Speedy9123
09-22-2009, 07:26 AM
Take tons of troops and then back it up with at least 2 fast attack choices to tie up stuff and then some heavy support and ill do well

Duke
09-22-2009, 10:49 AM
After all is said and done, foot slogging is not viabe against 'all comer,' tournament play.

Aldramelech
09-22-2009, 10:54 AM
Well my guard army is nearly all foot. I guess I'm relying on killing everything and then calmly walking onto objectives.
Will it work? We shall see.......

Duke
09-22-2009, 10:58 AM
@Aldramelech: I guess I was a little too all encompassing with my comment... Essentially what I meant is that in general foot slogging is usually going to start you off on the wrong foot. With the added survivability of tanks as well as the added movement it is hard to overcome.

Some armies can do it better than others (I.e. tyranids and daemons, lol) but everytime I play a foot slogger list I just don't get out of my Rhinos and simply flame/ melta/ plasma them from the transports.

Duke

Lord Azaghul
09-22-2009, 12:23 PM
I think a mixed guard army can do quite well, but there are a few rules:

Don't combine squad - ever! Many small squads means many small targets, and a big squad is an obvious easy target. Its kind of funny when you've forced your opponent to fire his lascannons and meltas at units of ten men squads

Play aggressive with guard infanty - moved them up - using cover, more often then not your opponent can only shoot one unit at a time, and the guard can easily muster more units on the table then the opponent can.

Screen the rest of the army with infantry squads. If your squads are advancing the opponent has to deal with them, while worring about your artillary, while worrying about your tanks, while worring about your outflankers and you hw teams!

And last: Remember that YOUR infantry squads are disposible -odds are your opponents aren't!

SandWyrm
09-22-2009, 12:47 PM
@Aldramelech: I guess I was a little too all encompassing with my comment... Essentially what I meant is that in general foot slogging is usually going to start you off on the wrong foot. With the added survivability of tanks as well as the added movement it is hard to overcome.

Some armies can do it better than others (I.e. tyranids and daemons, lol) but everytime I play a foot slogger list I just don't get out of my Rhinos and simply flame/ melta/ plasma them from the transports.

Duke

The viability of a foot-slogging list in a tourney environment is dictated by the available cover. The simple fact is that at most tourneys I've gone to there's 5 or less pieces of terrain on the table. So the half-foot army I used to take would get murdered because my foot squads had to deploy in the open. Whereas when I used them in pick-up games they would do just fine because we would always use 7+ pieces of terrain, some of which would be in the deployment zone.

Going Mech just removes this variable. Occasionally you'll see a table with too much terrain that limits your movement, but in general this won't be a problem.

Glocknal
09-22-2009, 01:53 PM
I think a mixed guard army can do quite well, but there are a few rules:

Don't combine squad - ever! Many small squads means many small targets, and a big squad is an obvious easy target. Its kind of funny when you've forced your opponent to fire his lascannons and meltas at units of ten men squads

And last: Remember that YOUR infantry squads are disposible -odds are your opponents aren't!

Im not sure if I agree with all your points here.

While its nice to provide many different targets, a burst from a BS4 heavy bolter can cause a very unwelcome LD7 morale test. Seperating all your Inf. Squads is just asking an opponent to get creative with this templates, making you takes loads of LD tests. To combat this problem you'll have to invest a ridiculous amount of points in commissars.

Dilutes effectiveness of orders.

It does give you a lot of scoring units, but any mobile army will be able to dislodge you from nearly any objecivet. (Marine bikes, Orc Bikes, Eldar, DE...etc.

Not a bad idea if you mount them however.

Lord Azaghul
09-22-2009, 02:54 PM
The main point of all those units is to force the enemy to deal with them while your tanks and what not deal with his army.

Commisars – absolutely not! Orders now let you get around losing that unit to a round of shooting induced panic. – besides what’s one unit in a guard army?

Dislodge from objectives: yes that is a real rish, but one of purpose of guardsmen in 10men squads is to draw the foe out into the open – after they’ve killed the guardman (usually in an assualt) you hit them with blast templates! Basicly you sacrified 50-60 points to kill a unit worth at least twice that!

One of the reason I’m not a fan of going all mech it that I chimera cost the same as a squad of 10 lads. I think the 10 men are far more versital then the 1 chimera

My average 2k list usually only has 2-3 chimeras (for my vets in reserve) 2-4 sentinals, 2 russ varients and 2 bask. The rest is broken down into infantry, usually between 6-8 squads, 2-3 hw teams and 2 command squads

The vechicle deliver more then sufficent fire power, and even if they fail at some point between the meltas and the flamers my infantry can deal with just about anything.

Just my humble opinion!

ninja skills
09-23-2009, 02:06 PM
I think foot sloggers can be viable, you do need speed but you only need to contest the far objectives and hold the near ones, as long as you have some high S guns it can work quite well

Chumbalaya
09-23-2009, 02:30 PM
Mobbing up IG squads can be well worth it some times. Big tarpit squads have to be mobbed up, globbing together squads can help you save on commissars, orders and voxes, and it reduces your available KP.

Wolves look to be a good footslogging army though, all those cavalry with high S and rending is very nice.

Duke
09-23-2009, 03:58 PM
true the cavalry in SW can act as your obective contestors... Much like Assault marines do in the regular marines...

DUKE

Chumbalaya
09-23-2009, 07:14 PM
Yep, but assault marines aren't multi-wounders with T5 and 3+ invuls or cost 8 points per model ;)

DarkLink
09-23-2009, 08:13 PM
There are really 3 benifits of mech armies that you don't get from non-mech armies.

1. Mobility. Transports let you put models where you want them, quickly. Bikes and jump packs are just as mobile, and infantry can (sometimes) move almost as fast thanks to Run. I do like being able to move and shoot, though, which my Land Raiders are very good at. And if I want to shoot my Grey Knight storm bolters (which I almost always do) then I can't run, slowing my army down.

2. Mobile cover and tank shock. Need to protect one of your units? Hide it behind that mobile lump of plastic you call a Rhino. Want to clump up an enemy unit, then flamer it? Tank shock with your Land Raider and jump out, then assault. These two things are almost impossible to replicate without tanks, and are very, very, very useful sometimes.

3. Survivability. You can't shoot a unit until you blow up the transport it's in. Nor can you assault it. Want to guarentee you get the assault with no casualties? Hide your guys in a Land Raider. This is where bikes and jump infantry suffer. They can jump from cover to cover easily enough, but if anyone gets within assault range or gets LOS, the unit can get whiped out. Transports make it much more difficult for the enemy to do this.

So it is possible to play with little or no mech, but throwing in some Rhino's will make just about any SM list that much better, for fairly cheap. If you can find a list that can do all the stuff above without lots of transports, then you're ok, but those lists are rare. It is much easier just to include Rhinos or race equivalent (of course, some armies don't have equivalents, like Tyranids. And one of the real reasons Grey Knights are so weak is that the only transports they can take are land raiders, which get blown up easily with the meltaguns that are so common now)

SandWyrm
09-23-2009, 10:32 PM
There are really 3 benifits of mech armies that you don't get from non-mech armies.

All very true.

My Mech IG just slaughter 3 out of every 4 infantry-based forces I go up against. As for the rest, most are a draw. And the one guy who's beat me down with mob orks had an overwhelming terrain advantage going for him.

RocketRollRebel
09-27-2009, 02:03 AM
Mobbing up IG squads can be well worth it some times. Big tarpit squads have to be mobbed up, globbing together squads can help you save on commissars, orders and voxes, and it reduces your available KP.

Wolves look to be a good footslogging army though, all those cavalry with high S and rending is very nice.

They are, I'm excited to get to really check out the codex friday. I think Orks can do it well with a mix of some fast units and armor in there. May go with them for the conversion potential too. I've had a lot of friend helping my friend get his Death Guard army preped for an upcoming tourny (building oblits and demon princes and such).

Thunderwolf cav seem very cool but I see them having serious issues with heavy bolter and auto cannon fire and the likes. Still kinda on the fence about their overall effectiveness tho I guess.

sketchesofpayne
09-28-2009, 06:39 PM
The trick with foot-sloggers is sitting tough on your objective and merely contesting theirs. Make them come to you, which isn't hard because they're usually driving straight at you in their transports.

With foot sloggers the most important part is the initial deployment. You have to plan where your troops are going to go beforehand, because they can't go 'Oops, we need to be over there, hop back in the transport!'

Oh, and of course, when facing ordinance march two inches apart.

Melissia
09-29-2009, 08:22 AM
Footslogging Sisters can be somewhat viable, if you have a lot of models to do it with (you lucky rich person you). 3+ saves when you can, 4+ cover saves when you can't, and hard to force into retreat.... they're durable units.

Confuddled
09-30-2009, 11:49 PM
Imho, a foot-slogging list might be viable, but you’d need:


1) The ability to field large units to soak up the inevitable casualties. Needless to say, some form of Ld boost would also be helpful.


2) The ability to deliver some units into an opponent’s backfield without slogging across the table (ie outflankers, deep-strikers) if only to contest the other guy’s objectives and/or threaten massed ordnance.


3) Access to man-portable anti-tank so you have the potential to at least threaten enemy armour. Relentless troops, bikers, deep-strikers…


For instance, simply having large squads and loads of relatively static heavy weapons won’t do you any good if it takes you 4 turns to shoot up most of the other guy’s army and the game ends on turn 5.

Classic example would be Chaos:



2 winged Sorcerors of Slaanesh with wings
(Daemon Princes are just too vulnerable to getting their posteriors shot off at 2K)

3x10 Plague Marines, 2 meltas, champ with fist, personal icon

2x4 Terminators, 3 combi-meltas,1 chain-fist

7 Obliterators
(2 squads of 2, 1 squad of 3)


2000 points on the dot



1) Plague Marines aren’t too big, but they’re tough as all heck.

2) Terminators (and Obliterators in a pinch) can deep-strike to disrupt and contest.

3) With the exception of the Sorcerors, everything can engage enemy armour in their respective range envelopes.



Imho, the two biggest problems with fielding a foot-slogging list?

1) The increased survivability and tactical flexibility of vehicles makes them very effective.


2) The decreased cost of transports in general means that a foot-slogging army has less advantage over its mechanised counterparts.

When you’ve got 50-point Rhinos and 110-point Predators (Predator Destructor w/heavy bolter sponsons), taking 3 Rhinos and 2 Predators means a foot-slogging list would have a 370-point advantage.

These days, you’d only have a 275-point advantage – not quite so impressive, eh?