1850 Grey Knight List - Need help, I'm a newb

[Gmk532]

Hi guys, this is my first time posting and I'm hoping you all can help me with my army list. This is actually going to be my first army, a friend just recently got me into the game. I've actually made two lists so I'm hoping that you lovely posters can tell me which one to go with (or tell me if they are both terrible)and just give me some pointers on either one. All criticism is welcome, I'm here to learn. Thanks

List 1


HQ - 365
Grey Knight Grandmaster - 195
+Rad Grenade
+Halberd

Librarian - 170
+Might of Titan, The Shrouding, Warp Rift, The Summoning

Troops - 470
10x GKSS - 280
+2x Psycannon
+Psybolt Ammo
+Rhino

5x GKSS - 190
+Psycannon
+Razorback w/ twin-linked lascannon

Elite - 745
x9 Purifier - 313
+Psycannon x2
+Psybolt ammo
+6x Halberds
+1x Daemon Hammer
+Rhino

x8 Purifier - 287
+Psycannon x2
+Psybolt Ammo
+5x Halberds
+1 Daemon Hammer
+Rhino

Vindicare - 145

Heavy - 270
Dreadnought - 135
+x2 Twin-linked autocannon
+Psybolt ammo

Dreadnought - 135
+x2 Twin-linked autocannon
+Psybolt ammo


Total – 1850


List 2

HQ - 355
Grey Knight Grandmaster – 190
+Rad Grenade

Librarian - 165
+Might of Titan, The Shrouding, Warp Rift

Troops - 505
X10 GKSS - 280
+2x Psycannon
+Psybolt Ammo
+Rhino

X5 GKT - 225
+Brotherhood banner
+4 halberds
+1 daemon hammer

Elite - 719
X8 Purifier - 287
+x2 Psycannon
+Psybolt ammo
+x5 halberds
+x1 Daemon hammer
+Rhino

X8 Purifier - 287
+x2 Psycannon
+Psybolt ammo
+x5 halberds
+x1 Daemon hammer
+Rhino
Vindicare – 145

Heavy - 270
Dreadnought - 135
+x2 Twin-linked autocannon
+Psybolt ammo

Dreadnought - 135
+x2 Twin-linked autocannon
+Psybolt ammo

Total - 1849

[DarkLink]

First list has solid units, but you're leaving your GM and Librarian out in the open. They can't fit in Rhinos, so there's a bit of a problem there unless you plan on footslogging some of your stuff to protect them. 2 HQs is also a lot for a GK army. I would be very tempted to drop the Librarian and fill out the Paladin squads, then buy maybe a third Psifle Dread (totally stealing that name from 3++;)).

Footslog the GKSS to protect the GM (and Librarian if you decide to keep him) and provide fire support, then counter charge. Purifiers act as front line troops.



Second list is basically the same thing, just with Terminators instead of one of the GKSS so you have an obvious place to put your HQs. Once again, I would consider dropping one HQ, filling out the Purifiers and getting a psycannon for the Terminators, and maybe another body or two.


I also wouldn't bother with the Brotherhood Banner. One of your 5 guys loses his force weapon, and you're more than halfway to buying another Terminator. I wouldn't take brotherhood banners on anything other than large squads in order to maximize its effect. Think about it; in a 5-man squad with a brotherhood banner, you have 12 force weapon and 3 normal CC attacks. Upgrade to a 6-man squad for 15pts, and now you've got 12 force weapon attacks, no normal CC attacks, and one more wound and storm bolter.

Brotherhood banner can be worth it in really big squads, but in small units you're better off with more bodies.




Thing with the HQs, is while both are great choices GKs are very pressed for points. I can't help but think that under 2000pts, you might get more benefit out of 7-8 GKSS than your second HQ. Then it comes down to whether you want a GM or Librarian, and since I don't want to rely on psychic powers too much I'd go with the GM. The outflank/score/counter attack/reroll wounds options are just more reliable than already abundant psychic powers.

I'd also keep the GKGM with a NF Sword, for the 3++ in close combat. It allows him to tie up some nasty units that could put a lot of power weapon wounds on your terminators, and the GM had a good chance of killing whatever he comes up against thanks to his force weapon, rad grenades and hammerhand.

[Gmk532]

Thank you for your input Darklink, those are definitely great ideas. In the first list are you suggesting all of the GKSS foot slog or just one unit for the HQ to join? Also, assuming I made the changes you listed to both lists, which one do you think is stronger? The HQ (probably GM)with a GKSS or the GKT?

[Hellstorm]

i agree with Darklink. i would fill out both of the purifiers to 10 men and then combat squad them as needed.

as for list 2 i don't like fielding only 5 terminators because they will get shot first because they are there. i would buy more GKSS or another Psyfle-man dread. also the banner (if you are going to keep it) is taken instead of a close combat weapon. so you have to lose one of the special weapons you bought.

where i differ from Darklink is that i think the librarian is far superior to the grandmaster just because of all the cool psychic stuff he can do. DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE MIGHT OF TITAN! it is amazing! being able to turn any unit into the best anti-tank CC unit in the game is amazing, especially with purifiers. i had 10 purifiers and a libby take out 5 terminators and a LR in one close combat phase due to that power.

other than looks good and good luck :D

[Gmk532]

So here is a revised list of list 1 (decided to go with 1). I have the GM in here, but I plan on buying the librarian as well and trying them both out to see what I like. Anyways, let me know how this new one looks guys.

List 1


HQ - 190
Grey Knight Grandmaster - 190
+Rad Grenade


Troops - 430
10x GKSS - 240 (HQ will join this unit)
+2x Psycannon
+Psybolt Ammo

5x GKSS - 190
+Psycannon
+Razorback w/ twin-linked lascannon

Elite - 823
x10 Purifier - 339
+Psycannon x2
+Psybolt ammo
+7x Halberds
+1x Daemon Hammer
+Rhino

x10 Purifier - 339
+Psycannon x2
+Psybolt Ammo
+7x Halberds
+1 Daemon Hammer
+Rhino

Vindicare - 145

Heavy - 405
Dreadnought - 135
+x2 Twin-linked autocannon
+Psybolt ammo

Dreadnought - 135
+x2 Twin-linked autocannon
+Psybolt ammo

Dreadnought - 135
+x2 Twin-linked autocannon
+Psybolt ammo



Total – 1848

[DarkLink]

Keep the Rhino for the GKSS in the first list, you just want to footslog them to provide your HQ with a bodyguard. You can jump in the Rhino if need be, or just use if for mobile cover, so you have some flexibility.

It's a tough call between the GKSS and the Termies, as they're fairly interchangeable. I would probably go with the GKSS, though. You get another Rhino for mobile cover, you can still deepstrike with them, you get Warp Quake, etc. GKSS are also a fair bit shootier, with 8 str 5 storm bolters and 2 psycannons compared to 1.



As for the choice between GM and Librarian, it kinda comes down to personal preference. The GM gives you some guaranteed versatility. You can make stuff scoring, outflank, etc. Plus he's a bit of a beast in CC, and it's never bad to have a nice counter assault threat hiding behind your frontlines.

On the other hand, the Librarian provides more, but less reliable, psychic buffs. 3+ cover, Might of Titans, ect are potent game-changers, and the Librarian is superbly flexible midgame. He can't make stuff outflank or score, though. Plus, you'll come up against some armies like Eldar and Space Wolves who will laugh when you try and cast a psychic power.

I think it's worth noting that Librarians are the only GK unit that actually rely on their psychic powers. All your other units are still very potent even if you keep getting blocked by a psychic hood. It'll be annoying, but it won't lose the game. Spending ~170pts on a Librarian that can get screwed over, though, can be a bit of a gamble. He could win you the game, or be useless.



I'd just play a few games with your options and see which one you like more. You'll find what you like best, and you'll understand your options. I've still only played one game with the actual new codex, so some of the questions like the ones you have are still a bit of theory.

[Gmk532]

Thanks for all the help and explanations, it is greatly appreciated. Now I just got to find out how to fit that Rhino back in.

Also, a friend of mine was telling me to drop the psycannons on the purifiers and give them incinerators instead. The reason being that I have enough AT already and that incinerators will work better with the purifiers. Any thoughts?

[DarkLink]

I'd say the opposite. GKs with storm bolters and psycannons can shoot anything to death. Anti-infantry firepower is not an issue as long as you play smart.

On the other hand, you can never have too much anti-tank firepower when you have a capable assault army. Being able to open a tank and kill everything inside can be the difference between winning and losing the game. And psycannons allow you to put heavy firepower on your opponent the second he gets close to you.

And it's not like psycannons lack anti-infantry power. A full 10 GKSS with psybolts and 2 psycannons can put out a ton of damage out to 24", especially if you happen to be able to stand still. With incinerators, you have to waste a turn or two getting close, then do only slightly more damage, then you're in assault range of the rest of the army.

Incinerators aren't bad by any means. They just do something that your army already does pretty well, and they don't do something that your army needs to get done.




It's still a lot better than a psilencer, though. Really don't know what they were thinking when they wrote the rules for that. Useless on GKSS, and not a whole lot better on terminators when you could take psycannons instead.

[Lemt]

The only other thing I'd try is to free up 5 points. That way you can give the Razorback a TL Assault Cannon instead of the Lascannon, and give it Psybolt ammo. 4 TL S7 rending shots are much better than 1 TL S9 shot, unless you really want the extended range.

Also, try to get some games in with proxies before buying anything. That's the best way of seeing what works for you and what doesn't.

[Astral Platypus]

The big question is whether or not you already have the models. if you do, let us know what you are working with that might be sitting on the shelf. if not, do like Lemt said and get some games in with a few experiments.

[dethangel]

By Darklink
I'd say the opposite. GKs with storm bolters and psycannons can shoot anything to death. Anti-infantry firepower is not an issue as long as you play smart.

On the other hand, you can never have too much anti-tank firepower when you have a capable assault army. Being able to open a tank and kill everything inside can be the difference between winning and losing the game. And psycannons allow you to put heavy firepower on your opponent the second he gets close to you.

And it's not like psycannons lack anti-infantry power. A full 10 GKSS with psybolts and 2 psycannons can put out a ton of damage out to 24", especially if you happen to be able to stand still. With incinerators, you have to waste a turn or two getting close, then do only slightly more damage, then you're in assault range of the rest of the army.

Incinerators aren't bad by any means. They just do something that your army already does pretty well, and they don't do something that your army needs to get done. end quote...

though i agree that the psycannons are over all a better weapon. i must say that i wouldn't disreguard the incinerators . for the purifiers they are a free upgrade. the purifiers are CC heavy hitters so you want them in close combat asap. the dakka dreds will open up the transports and by torching the unit that was inside given them no cover save as an opener to an assault can prove effective against hoards and heavy infantry to widdle them down a little befor the assaulting begins. plus when the points are tight that 20 pts could buy more halberds or other upgrades.
look at this you flame 6 models then assault, all enemys in the combat take a S4 Cleansing flame hit. then all your I6 halberds attack first thats 21 S4 PW attacks at I6 and 3 S8 I1 hammer attacks. all except the hammer will happen before the opponent can do anything.

[DarkLink]

I don't want to sound like I'm totally disregarding them. Drive by flamings are great. I've just gotten used to playing without them, and you need to be able to pop transports. And I've found that I can get more use out of a Storm Bolter and NFW than an Incinerators a lot of the time.

[Gmk532]

I currently do not have any models, this is my very first army and I wanted people to take a look at my list before I bought. Thanks for all the input btw guys.

[DarkLink]

Nice thing is, you get a unit of PAGK and now you have GKSS, Interceptors, Purifiers and Purgation squads. Get some GKTs and you have any one of the wide variety of Terminators. The only real question is, what weapons will you take.

Get as many psycannons as you can. 1-2 per 5 dudes you own will allow you to trade out between your various units. Get enough PAGK with halberds to use any purifiers, a couple Daemonhammers (1 in 10 PAGK), and swords on the rest. For Terminators, get 1 Daemonhammer for every 5 guys, and a 50-50 mix of Halberds and Swords for the rest. Mix in a couple Falchions and maybe a warding stave or two, and you've got all the models you'll probably need for GK infantry.