1750 Grey knight Mordrak list

[Wombatofcombat]

Grand Master Mordrak-200
5 Ghost knights-200
3 Halberds-0
2 Daemonhammers-0
400

Grey knight Grand Master-175
Incinerator-5
Brain mines-10
Flacions-10
Psychotroke Grenades-15
215

5 Paladins-275
2 psycannons-40
3 halberds-0
2 daemonhammers-0
Both psycannons are master crafted-10
325

Vindicare Assassin-145
145

5 Grey knights-100
4 halberds-20
Psilencer-0
Razorback-45
Las/plaz-35
200

5 Grey knights-100
4 halberds-20
Psilencer-0
Razorback-45
Las/plaz-35
200

Land Raider Redeemer-245
Multi Melta-10
(paladins and GM are inside)
psybolt-5
psyflame-15
275

1750 Total

[Lemt]

Ok, here's a few things I'd do:

-Two Ghosts with Hammers seems like a bit much, considering Mordrak has a hammer and a ton of attacks. I'd probably rather give the unit more Halberds, to thin out units before I1.

-You want to be able to play wound-allocation musical chairs. Here's what you have right now:
*Psycannon (mastercrafted), Halberd
*Psycannon (mastercrafted), Daemonhammer
*Storm Botler, Halberd
*Storm Bolter, Halberd
*Daemonhammer
As you can see, 2 guys are equipped exactly the same. If you don't want to change points around, make only one Psycannon mastercrafted, and mastercraft one of the weapons from those two dudes, so one will have one of his weapons mastercrafted and no the other.

-The Psilencers don't seem so hot. You are giving a Heavy weapon to a miniature otherwise geared to melee. It just seems a bit odd, that's all. Are 4 extra S4 shots worth losing a melee weapon and not being able to move and shoot? Even if the Psilencer is free, I'd say it's not worth it.

-I'd cut the Psybolt and Psyflame upgrades on the Redeemer. S7 flamers are overkill, and it really doesn't have enough shots to justify Psybolt. Sure, TL Assault Cannon. But remember it's a Redeemer with a Multi-Melta. You can only use PotMS to shoot one extra weapon, and you want to move forward fast. So either the Psybolt or the MM have to go, since they clash.
Instead, why not give the Razorbacks Assault Cannons and Psybolt? They carry melee units, so you want to move them forwar. After they unload their cargo, you can shoot 4 TL S7 rending shots with them,

[dethangel]

the GM i would get rid of the incinerator, the brain mines and falcions. instead take psychotroke grenades, rad grenades, psybolt, leave the sword(for the 3++save), and blind grenades. 230
also 1 paladin and 1 ghost should have 1 sword each for the 4++ save to dump wounds on.

[Wombatofcombat]

okay, although i like the idea of the S7 assault cannon the laz plaz option grants me the short range assault weapon and the long range objective holder that grey knights lack in. i will drop the psilencer and psyflame and psybolt for the redeemer and ill throw two hammers instead of the psilencer and that should work out points wise, and the laz plaz gives it two weapons therefor it can take more weapon destroyed, i think im going to keep the master crafted as they are, but is it worth taking halberds for the GK squads and having the other 10 points for giving master crafted to the halberds?

[Wombatofcombat]

the GM i would get rid of the incinerator, the brain mines and falcions. instead take psychotroke grenades, rad grenades, psybolt, leave the sword(for the 3++save), and blind grenades. 230
also 1 paladin and 1 ghost should have 1 sword each for the 4++ save to dump wounds on.

okay the blind grenades are useless for my purpose bc they are assaulting out of a LR not being assaulted, i can see the rad grenades, but at that point its overkill, i might chuck the brain mines but i will keep the incenerator

[DarkLink]

For 5 pts, defensive grenades are a huge bargain. Take them. You might be assaulting the turn you get out of the Raider, but the game isn't going to end then and you're out in the open now.


And taking Rad grenades is far from overkill. GKs are so potent in CC because of all the buffs that you can stack on them. But you need to actually take those buffs for it to matter. Plus, Rad grenades means you don't need hammerhand unless you're fighting with big boys. It saves you a psychic test.

Edit: And Brain Mines are too unreliable. Take Rad grenades over them, and if you find yourself with 10 extra points later then go ahead and take them.

[Wombatofcombat]

okay that makes sense

this is my new list


Grand Master Mordrak-200
5 Ghost knights-200
5 Halberds-0
400

Grey knight Grand Master-175
Rad Grenades-15
Halberd-5
Blind Grenades-5
Psychotroke Grenades-15
215

5 Paladins-275
2 psycannons-40
3 halberds-0
2 daemonhammers-0
Both psycannons are master crafted-10
325

Vindicare Assassin-145
145

5 Grey knights-100
4 halberds-20
1 Daemonhammer-10
Razorback-45
Las/plaz-35
210

5 Grey knights-100
4 halberds-20
1 daemonhammer-10
Razorback-45
Las/plaz-35
210

Land Raider Redeemer-245
Multi Melta-10
255

1750 Total

[CrimsonTurkey]

I'd leave one Paladin with a sword. I've had my butt saved by the 4++ in CC vs the power weapon/power fist sarge.

Why not give the Land Raider a warp stabilization field, and replace the GM with a Librarian. You could join him to the Ghost Knights, deep strike him on turn one, and turn two summon an AV 14 death-mobile full of paladins into your opponent's back ranks. Plus I generally find the buffs of the Libby to be more important for the success of the paladins. (Shrouding, Quicksilver, Sanctuary, etc.)

[Wombatofcombat]

well the point of the GM is to be a combat jesus and for the second Grand Stradegy, and deep striking a LR is risky

[DarkLink]

Your troops are too fragile. You've spend too many points on characters and expensive stuff instead of bodies. For one thing, drop the Halberds on the GKSS and get a 6th body instead. And looking over the list again, you already have Mordrack, Paladins and some Terminators, so I would take another GKSS squad instead of the GM.

And Redeemers don't have enough long range firepower. I would take a Godhammer pattern Raider, personally.

[Wombatofcombat]

quite possible, i will have to play test it

[Wombatofcombat]

the thing with the redeemer is it can hold 12 models which is key, and 2 Grand Stradegy makes lots more troop choices

[Splug]

the thing with the redeemer is it can hold 12 models which is key, and 2 Grand Stradegy makes lots more troop choicesWell, it makes 1-2 more scoring choices - the paladins and the vindicare. Ghost knights cannot benefit from Grand Strategy, and you only have those five units in the army. As durable as the paladins are, at the end of the day you have - at best - 22 scoring models (counting the GM attached to the paladins). Also, what role does the Mordrak unit serve? It currently is either deep striking on your side of the table and walking, or it deep strikes unsupported in the midfield / enemy lines. If the squad has to walk, it is effectively out of the game until turn 3-4. If it deep strikes unsupported, most armies should be capable of killing it while the paladins are still driving up.

Overall, this list very likely does not have enough models to survive the approach against a gun line, nor enough bulk shooting/assault to handle a horde army. Your only psychic defense is The Aegis, which is fairly unreliable. The list has too few units to effectively threaten a mobile army; you just can't cover enough of the board, and two lascannons are not sufficient long-range anti-tank to reliably immobilize an army. There are a few armies which this list will do well against, but the vulnerabilities outnumber the strengths here. This may be a fun super-elite army to play, but I think the concept is going to leave you very vulnerable in a competitive game.

[DarkLink]

The GM can't be scoring, either.

And, yes, long range heavy AT has always been one of the big things GKs have needed. There's a reason why psyrifle dreads are so popular in lists already. Within 24" Gks can be just about the best shooting army in the game (in spite of the lack of melta), and Psyrifle Dreads cover anything outside that range.

[Wombatofcombat]

ok so i ran an expanded version of this list at 2500 points, i added a storm raven with las and melta with 10 purifiers inside and a rhino with 10 purifiers inside. it worked pretty well, by the end of the game i was holding 1 more objective than him and i had both razorbacks 8 standard knights a stormraven and 8 purifiers

[Splug]

The GM can't be scoring, either.Not on his own, but if the paladins are scoring and he's attached, he can be used as a wound soak / coherency extender for a scoring unit like any other IC. But yeah - the Grand Strategy cannot be used to make an IC scoring.