1850 GK vs Tyranids

[jmach]

A friend of mine wanted to play a 5 tervigon tyranid list vs my gk army so I took standard all comers list that I'm working on for some upcoming tournaments. I have had really good success with it so far against some various armies.

Tyranids (not sure all of the upgrades, just what he had for bugs)
HQ
Tervigon
Tervigon
Elites
2x Venomthrope
2x Zoanthrope
2x Zoanthrope
Troops
10x gaunts
10x gaunts
15x gaunts
Tervigon
Tervigon
Tervigon
Heavy Support
Mawloc
Mawloc

My Grey Knights
HQ
Grand Master
-rad nades, blind nades, master-craft psycannon, 3x servo-skull
Elites
Vindicare Assassin
7x Paladins
-2x master-craft psycannon, banner, daemonhammer, 2x halberd, master-craft halberd
Troops
10x GKSS
-2x psycannon, psybolt ammo, daemonhammer, Rhino transport
10x GKSS
-2x psycannon, psybolt ammo, daemonhammer, Rhino transport
Heavy Support
Dreadnaught
-2x twin-link autocannon, psybolt ammo
Nemesis Dreadknight
-greatsword, heavy incinerator, personal teleporter

Mission: Kill points
Deployment: Pitched battle

I get 1 special rule to hand out and I select to give re-roll failed to wounds on 1s to my paladins. My main goal is to try to keep him isolated so he can't spread out and really use his numbers to his advantage.

Turn 1
GK: I advance my paladins, dreadnaught, both rhinos 6 inches, nem dreadknight 12 inches, vindicare stays where I set him. Dreadknight uses heavy incinerator to kill 4 of 10 gaunts on one of his flanks. Dreadnaught kills a sqaud of 2 zoanthropes. Paladins and grandmaster let lose 12 psycannon and 10 storm bolter shots killing 11 of the 15 squad of gaunts, 2 psycannons from inside rhino kill 2 more from the same squad leaving just 2 left in that one stormbolter from rhino does nothing. Vindicare takes a shot at a venomthrope that makes its 5++ save. 2 psycannons from inside other rhino takes shots at the venomthropes along with stormbolter from their rhino doing nothing.

Nidz: He advances his gaunts up to make room for birthing, remaining squad of zoanthropes advances along with venomthropes. Mawlocs burrow. Tervigon 1 spawns 15 gaunts with rolls of 4,5,6. Tervigon 2 spawns 14 gaunts with rolls of 4,5,5. Tervigon 3 spawns 11 gaunts with rolls of 2,3,6. Tervigon 4 spawns 13 gaunts with rolls of 2,5,6. Tervigon 5 spawns 9 gaunts with rolls of 1,2,6. So out of the 5 he had only 1 cannot birth anymore but that's still 62 more gaunts for me to have to cut through. His shooting is ineffectual and 1 of the 2 zoanthropes, thanks to dreadnaught, casts the s5 ap3 template at my paladins but they make their saves.

GK: 1 - Nidz: 0

Turn 2
GK: Dreadknight advances up 12 more inches and burns the remaining 6 gaunts from the squad he previously shot at. Dreadnaught pushes up 6 more inches and falls in behind the paladins and kills the other squad of zoanthropes with his s8 autocannons. Paladins push up along with a rhino that unloads its 10 gks from inside and their combined fire kills a squad of 15 freshly spawned gaunts, stormbolter from rhino kills 1 gaunt from another squad. Vindicare fires at a tervigon...and misses completely with BS 8, awesome. Other rhino moves up and takes some shots at the same tervigon with the psycannons from inside doing 2 wounds.

Nidz: Mawlocs show up both trying to arrive on my power armor guys that were now outside of their rhino, both scattering way off. Wall of gaunts pushes forward with the 2 venomthropes and the tervigons start birthing more. I lose track of how many spawn as they are starting to just blanket the quarter of the table I've begun to isolate him to, but 1 more tervigon cannot birth anymore luckily, bringing it up to 2 of the 5 becoming sterilized. Gaunt shooting does a wound to one of my paladin terminators, and a squad of 2 suicides on my paladins in assault. Other side of the table, my vindicare assassin dies horribly to roughly 25-30 gaunts shooting at him, starting to lose containment on one flank. The wounded tervigon unluckily suffers from perils of the warp trying to hand out feel no pain.

GK: 4 - Nidz: 1

Turn 3
GK: Dreadnaught side steps and kills the group of 2 venomthropes with the s8 autocannons. Dreadknight moves 12 inches towards the tervigons and burns up 4 gaunts from a squad of 13. Rhino moves out of the strike squad way and they fall back to deal with the mawloc ready to assault it but shooting takes care of it miraculously. Paladins and grand master multicharge a large squad of gaunts and the other mawloc cleaning up shop and consolidating closer to the tervigons. Rhino on far flank tank shocks 12 inches through the wall of gaunts up to the 2 tervigons up on that flank hoping that they blow it up killing some gaunts for me that are surrounding it like an ocean and leaving me some room for the squad inside to do some damage.

Nidz: He's feeling a bit demoralized at this point as I've only lost a vindicare and taken a wound on a paladin but he mans up and pushes onward. He births more gaunts with the 3 fertile tervigons after a slight repositioning of the gaunt wall, and he pulls the gaunts from the flank with the tank shocking rhino towards the paladins to try to take them out with volume of shots but has to wait till the next turn. He unloads more shots on the paladins now with help from the tervigons doing nothing, and shoots at the dreadknight with a squad doing nothing and then assaults the dreadknight doing 2 wounds to it thanks to poisoned attacks and I kill 3 in return with the greatsword it has. He does not assault the paladin squad. He assaults the rhino with 2 tervigons and luckily blows it up, if it wrecked I would have lost all 10 guys inside as they couldn't have piled out, scary gamble that paid off, lost a rank and file gk in the explosion and he lost a mass of gaunts from 4 different squads in the blast.

GK: 8 - Nidz: 2

Turn 4

GK: Dreadknight kills 3 more gaunts he does no wounds and fails his 3 fearless saves leaving it free to move again. The GKSS embark back on their transport since they had now dealt with the mawloc, and the rhino moved 12 inches to reinforce the far flank where my 9 grey knights were now alone and looking screwed. The dreadnaught takes some shots at a tervigon doing a single wound. The paladins and grand master charge 3 units of gaunts whiping them all out but unluckily they take 2 wounds in the process, one on an already wounded guy with a sword and he dies. My unit of 9 gkss multi-charges the 2 tervigons that tag teamed their transport in a ditch effort to cause mayhem, they do no wounds on initiative 4 with 8 guys that attacked so no attempt at the 3d6 shadows of the warp force weapon activation, initiative one my justicar with his daemonhammer kills the tervigon that had 3 wounds on it from previous turns lighting up masses of gaunts in wounds wiping a squad off the table, they kill 2 guys with psycannons and 2 guys with swords, I make leadership to stay.

Nidz: More birthing but now only 1 can still reproduce after its all said and done, lots of shots for no effect, he sends in a unit of gaunts to try to help the tervigon, killing all of the remaining men except the justicar who strikes on 1 with the tervigon and he magically pulls off the 3d6 force weapon activation with a roll of 7 killing the tervigon and another some gaunts in collateral damage but he dies from the tervigon attacks.

GK: 13 - Nidz: 3

Turn 5
GK: Dreadnaught throws out some shots at a tervigon doing nothing. Paladins kill another tervigon, the last one that could birth, and a squad of gaunts. No gaunts were in range to take wounds. Dreadknight shunts 30 inches and burns a couple gaunts, and the healthy squad of grey knights lay down shots into a tervigon doing 2 wounds.

Nidz: No more birthing was done, he multi-charges my dreadknight my 10 man GKSS with a squad of gaunts, and sends his last 2 tervigons at the strike squad. With the remaining 2 tervigons and a squad of gaunts that still drops 15 wounds on the unit and kills the dreadknight, my dice decide I would only lose my 2 psycannons to the gaunt attacks. My attacks end up 3 wounds to the tervigons but I tempt fate and try for force weapon activation and my justicar explodes out of the squad, the tervigons roll like wet noodles and only kill 1 of my guys, I make my check to stay.

GK: 15 - Nidz: 4

Roll and game goes to turn 6.

Turn 6
GK: Paladins arrive and multi-charge like champs finishing off the 2 tervigons and the gaunts because that's what a banner allows to happen.

Nidz: No units left.

GK: 18 - Nidz: 4

It was a crazy game, I honestly thought it would be a closer game with all the hordes piling in, I believe he could have done better if he played more aggressively to my weaker flank. Overall the casualties were
Nidz - 160+ gaunts, 2 Mawlocs, 5 Tervigons, 4 Zoanthropes, 2 Venomthropes
GK - Vindicare, Rhino, 10 GKSS, 1 Paladin, Dreadknight, 4 GKSS

My MVP was the dreadnaught that killed the 3 units that were going to cause the most damage to my army in 3 turns.

His MVP was the collective birthing of the tervigons.

[newtoncain]

Thx 4 the report.
I seems btwn DE posion up the arse, GK purifier squads and SW undercosted over powered units and powers (long fangs/jaws of the wolf) = the NIds wait for a new codex.:(

[iamnothere]

Well played with the GK, can't have been easy looking at the table and thinking swarm!

The Nid player took an extreme list and hoped it would pay off but didn't count on what GK do best - kill hordes. Seriously if there was one thing GK were designed to take down it's hordes. Wether that's ork, nid, daemon or guard - storm bolters kill 5+ saves all the way to the bank.

Now if he'ed have taken a winged tyrant or the doom or (you get the picture)... things could have been different. Those Mawlocks could have been a bit luckier too.

[blackarmchair]

Thx 4 the report.
I seems btwn DE posion up the arse, GK purifier squads and SW undercosted over powered units and powers (long fangs/jaws of the wolf) = the NIds wait for a new codex.:(

Nids are nowhere near as bad as the internet like to say they are. They're a very balanced, highly synergistic codex that takes a lot of practice to play with. Too often I see people make the classic mistake with bugs of trying to play them like Marines or trying to spam build (as seen in the 5 Tervigon list above).

Success with Tyranids lies in building a list that can do a little of everything with as much redundancy as possible.

Also, KP is by FAR the worst mission for Tervigon spam. I wonder how the GK would have fared in a multiple objectives game - or more interestingly - capture and control.

[seabo76]

Grats on the win!
That was not a great showing for the Tyranids...
Some Stealers, Flyrant and/or Tyrant+Hive Guard would have been much more effective.
On the other hand, if he had been ballsier and more aggressive with those tons of gaunts he probably would have fared better.

[jmach]

Nids are nowhere near as bad as the internet like to say they are. They're a very balanced, highly synergistic codex that takes a lot of practice to play with. Too often I see people make the classic mistake with bugs of trying to play them like Marines or trying to spam build (as seen in the 5 Tervigon list above).

Success with Tyranids lies in building a list that can do a little of everything with as much redundancy as possible.

Also, KP is by FAR the worst mission for Tervigon spam. I wonder how the GK would have fared in a multiple objectives game - or more interestingly - capture and control.

Yea the guy I played against usually plays a different more competitive list, he just wanted to try out the 5 tervigons. Nids really aren't bad at all, just have to be careful with them, only reason why I popped the tervigons so bad was because of my banner with the paladins. I didn't use hardly anything that required the psychic test thanks to shadows of the warp, if it wasn't for the banner I don't think I would have tabled him, only time I tried activating the force weapons outside of the auto-banner was when I knew my squad of knights were going to die that round and figured all or nothing.

[trygonprime]

Yea the guy I played against usually plays a different more competitive list, he just wanted to try out the 5 tervigons. Nids really aren't bad at all, just have to be careful with them, only reason why I popped the tervigons so bad was because of my banner with the paladins. I didn't use hardly anything that required the psychic test thanks to shadows of the warp, if it wasn't for the banner I don't think I would have tabled him, only time I tried activating the force weapons outside of the auto-banner was when I knew my squad of knights were going to die that round and figured all or nothing.

5 tervagons have many weekness. But for just fun factor birthing 160 plus gaunts is fun.

[Soss]

Poor Nids, it just isn't fair playing against Grey Knights.

[CajunMan]

Ouch just the 2 lists compared made me cringe lol MC slaughterfest.

[DarkLink]

Why do people take the Vindicare? Most overrated model ever. I've never seen or heard of a game in which it lasted past turn 2 except in very rare and specific matchups. Against most armies in the game, you'll get one, maybe two shots, and then die. Not worth it, especially compared to a Dreadnought or a unit of Acolytes in a Razorback if you have Coteaz.

[Calypso2ts]

i wouldn't knock a Vindicare that badly, the 3d6 armor penetration against a LR is brutal.

[jifel]

His shooting is ineffectual and 1 of the 2 zoanthropes, thanks to dreadnaught, casts the s5 ap3 template at my paladins but they make their saves.

Just a note here, I think the Nid player should have used the lance on the Zoeys. The St. 10 Ap. 1 would intant gib the Paladins and also negate their armor save, and a 5++ isnt too bad to deal with.

[ComradePenguin]

The nid player bet the farm on tervigon spam and got slapped down hard. I've found that it is best to ignore objectives when playing with nids in this edition. Just build your lists with the intention of doing as much damage as possible, because even with a bunch of tervigons you will lose a war of attrition.

[DarkLink]

i wouldn't knock a Vindicare that badly, the 3d6 armor penetration against a LR is brutal.

If it ever gets the shot. Which it probably won't, which is my point.

Even assuming you are facing an opponent with a LR (SR count to, I guess, as do any other 200+ pt transport), only an idiot would leave it in the open to give you a clear shot. If they can't generate cover for it, then either they or their list isn't good enough to make it a challenging game anyways.

With cover, your odds of doing anything at all are cut by 50%. And even with AP 1, you still need to roll a 3+ on the damage chart to do something that matters. So after the hit, cover and damage results, you only have a 30% chance of immobilizing or destroying the vehicle. And that's assuming you'll penetrate, which is not a guarantee either.



So you get one, and only one shot (assuming a competent opponent), and that one shot only has a 30% chance of doing anything to Vindicare's ideal target? Doesn't sound very good to me.

That's also if you get first turn. If you take second, the Vindicare will likely never get to shoot at all. Your opponent will just kill him before you get a chance to shoot. And if you hide him out of LOS or something, then your opponent will just wait until you move into LOS and then shoot him to death, again before he gets to shoot because he has a heavy weapon.




Now, I'm sure there are very specific cases in which a Vindicare would be a decent choice. But I've never played a competitive game in which I thought "wow, I wish I had a vindicare" and "wow, my opponent can't kill a vindicare in one turn from 36" " at the same time.

[Arleucs]

Funny, but poor tyranid list....

also, taking Zoanthropes instead of hive guards, is probably not the best idea, especially without pod

[khsrio621]

Yeah, with kill point games, you really have to be careful with tervigons. So a five tervigon list will be a very bad plan in one out of three games using normal mission rolling. Giving up to five free kill points a turn is not something I would recommend.

[Sonikgav]

Yeah, with kill point games, you really have to be careful with tervigons. So a five tervigon list will be a very bad plan in one out of three games using normal mission rolling. Giving up to five free kill points a turn is not something I would recommend.

That's why sensible player realises that the spawning is voluntary, not manditory each turn. In Kill Points those Tervi's shouldn't be spawning unless there's an awesome counter charge opportunity available.

[Turkadactyl]

I completely agree with ComradePenguin. When I play with Nids I try to eliminate the opponent. Nids are not as bad as the internet makes them out to be. Synergy is important with Nids. More finesse and strategy now. Enjoyed the batrep. Thanks for posting. Try taking some pictures next time. Would have loved to see all those gaunts up against the GK.

[Martino]

The vindicare and calladus are extremely useful models. I would always play both in my GK lists. They both deliver something the other models are missing but like Marbo, must be played carefully.

[z3n1st]

I think the assassins are situational at best, sometimes they can be golden, most times they are point sinks.

[plawolf]

Vindicares die early usually because their player is using them too aggressively and going for an all-or-nothing approach.

All too often, players get greedy and just plop him down somewhere with the best LOS to everything. But good LOS is a double edged sword, meaning if you can shoot to the enemy, they can shoot back at you.

The vindicare is a glass cannon, and if you play him like a marine devastator squad or psyrifle dread, of course he is going to get pawned fast.

With the Vindicare, placement is key, and he is just as, if not more so, effective as a defensive unit as an offensive one.

Use LOS blocking terrain to limit how much fire he is going to take, but also use it to create 'no go' zones for enemy armour. Remember that if someone paid 200+ or 250 points for a Stormraven or Land Raider, he is intending to charge that thing forwards to drop something nasty in your lap.

Position your units so that if he wants to drop off that deathstar in the face of something juicy, he will have to drive into the Vindicare's kill zone.

However, the Vindicare's true strength is his ability to defang enemy squads. Taking out tanks is very much a pot shot, and as such, should be a secondary objective.

Again, placement is key. Position him so he has good LOS on something important that the enemy would want to assault or take, but which has as little LOS to the rest of his army as possible.

It is a little more difficult now that he cannot shoot into CC, but you should still have a good chance to being able to pick off the PF/PW serg or special weapons trooper. With those key guys gone, the rest of the squad will be easy meat for one of your own squads.

In addition to the direct physical damage a Vindicare can cause, he can also put a lot of psychological pressure on an opponent, sometimes, that alone is worth his points cost.

[Grrmpf]

Thanks for the report. Tervigonspam doesn`t seem to do so well in Kill point missions.