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mkerr
07-31-2009, 12:55 PM
This thread is something of an experiment so I hope you'll enjoy it.

I get a lot of emails and PMs asking about army lists, so I'm going to use this thread to share experimental lists. I'll also post army list requests here (so feel free to PM me with "what should I do" and "how do I fix" requests).

I'll give you a link to the army list on the Mkerr's Flywire (http://flywire.tumblr.com) where I'll talk more about how I plan to use the army list and how well it performed. You can comment on the lists on the Tumblr site or you can leave your comments here.

-- MKerr

Quick Links to Army Lists in this thread (and a link to the army on the Flywire):

1. Relictors (2000pt Space Marine hobby list): Link to Post #2 (http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showpost.php?p=837&postcount=2) and Flywire Link (http://flywire.tumblr.com/post/152435117/relictors-2000pt-army-list)

2. Space Wolves 'Ard Boyz List: Link to Post #8 (http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showpost.php?p=2326&postcount=8) and Flywire Link (http://flywire.tumblr.com/post/154030112/space-wolves-2009-ard-boyz)

3. Gunline Witch Hunters 'Ard Boyz List: Link to Post #16 (http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showpost.php?p=4797&postcount=16) and Flywire Link (http://flywire.tumblr.com/post/156736053/2500-witch-hunters-roster)

4. BOLSCON Lucky 13 List: Link to Post #19 (http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showpost.php?p=9221&postcount=19) and Flywire Link (http://flywire.tumblr.com/post/167050917/bolscon-army-list-1)

5. Blood Angels 2000 List: Link to Post #24 (http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showpost.php?p=11157&postcount=24) and Flywire Link (http://flywire.tumblr.com/post/172427406/blood-angels-2000pt-list)

6. Chaos Daemons 2000pt List: Link to Post #32 (http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showpost.php?p=14837&postcount=32) and Flywire Link (http://flywire.tumblr.com/post/178129575/2000pt-chaos-daemons)

7. New Space Wolves 2000pt List: Link to Post #42 (http://flywire.tumblr.com/post/183463355/2000pt-space-wolves-list-new-codex) and Flywire Link (http://flywire.tumblr.com/post/183463355/2000pt-space-wolves-list-new-codex)

8. Next: I'm going back to basics with Witch Hunters (including an Imperial Operative)!

mkerr
07-31-2009, 01:11 PM
Here's a fun list that I played last night. The goal was to build a "hobby" list (as opposed to a "heavy" army list) using my Relictors and a radical Ordo Malleus Inquisitor Lord.

THE LIST:

HQ
Chapter Master Pedro Kantor
Inquisitor Lord (Psycannon, Psychic Hood)
— Retinue: 3 HB Gun Servitors, 2 Sages, 2 Mystics

ELITE
3 Daemonhosts
8 Sternguard Veterans (Power Weapon Sergeant)
— Transport: Drop Pod w/Locator Beacon

TROOPS
10 Tactical Marines (Meltagun, Power Fist Sergeant w/Teleport Homer)
— Transport: Rhino
10 Tactical Marines (Meltagun, Power Fist Sergeant w/Teleport Homer)
— Transport: Rhino

HEAVY
10 Devastator Marines (2 Lascannons, 2 Heavy Bolters)
8 Devastator Marines (4 Plasma Cannons)
Thunderfire Cannon

THE TRICK: Daemonhosts deploy using Deep Strike so they can benefit from the Sternguard's Locator Beacon. They also have a power called Teleport, which I have a decent chance of getting at least once each turn. This, combined with the Teleport Homers, allow me to move the Daemonhosts around very effectively. It's a lot of fun, but doesn't quite make these beasts worth their steep price. But fun > effective in this list.

THE PLAN: Bolster the defenses of a large piece of terrain to keep my Devastators around (especially the Plasma Cannons). Use the Teleport Homers and the Locator Beacon to put the Daemonhosts where they can do the most damage. Pedro gives the Daemonhosts (and everyone else) nearby an extra attack.

THE RESULT: I played against Darkwynn's Emperor's Children hobby list (which still manages packs quite a punch). We tested one of Jwolf's BOLSCON missions, which was very cool. The game was a ton of fun, with lots of twists and turns - coming down to the wire with a last turn victory by Darkwynn.

HIGH POINT: My three Daemonhosts assaulted a unit of Noise Marines -- two had Timeshift (26 attacks on the charge!) and one had Warp Strength (six S9 attacks!). Darkwynn's expression was priceless when he said, "They have how many attacks?".

LOW POINT: Even with Pedro around, I managed to fail my first three Leadership tests. Pinning my Pedro and my Sternguard AND my Plasma Cannon Devastators in my second turn! Ouch!

Since the goal was a fun game with some variety to spice things up, my goal was accomplished 100%.

You can find more details on the list at the Flywire: http://flywire.tumblr.com/post/152435117/relictors-2000pt-army-list

I'd love to hear your thoughts on the army list!

-- Mkerr

Rupert
07-31-2009, 06:12 PM
Damn those Deamon hosts sound solid, they must cost a few points to still be expensive.

mkerr
07-31-2009, 07:53 PM
Damn those Deamon hosts sound solid, they must cost a few points to still be expensive.

Honestly, Daemonhosts are overpriced and extremely fragile. I would never recommend taking them in a competitive list. But they can provide a fun factor to a friendly game.

Three cost the same as a Landraider...

GVEGames
07-31-2009, 08:29 PM
Great game report. Sounds like a fun list, though as a Puritan I can't say that I support your radical use of foul daemonhosts... :p

Lord Sandwich
07-31-2009, 08:29 PM
Wait, your 3 Daemonhosts charged a squad of NM, and got maximum attacks? Wow, that's lucky.

mkerr
07-31-2009, 11:19 PM
Great game report. Sounds like a fun list, though as a Puritan I can't say that I support your radical use of foul daemonhosts... :p

I just miss using the Radical Wargear. The Arketus Scourge and the Book of Pain were a ton of fun.

I think I'm going to have to make some radical wargear for campaigns!


Wait, your 3 Daemonhosts charged a squad of NM, and got maximum attacks? Wow, that's lucky.

Very close to maximum (Pedro helped). The Noise Marines didn't have a Power Fist and put their attacks on the Tactical Squad with the Power Fist (also in Pedro's aura).

I think it's the first time I didn't roll at least one completely useless power in a turn. It made up a bit for the 3 other bad turns. I almost never get the power I need (healing when not wounded, not getting Teleport when I need it, etc.).

It's part of what makes DHs so fun to play, lol.

-- Mkerr

mkerr
08-01-2009, 10:39 PM
Here's a fun list I put together for the first round of the 2009 'Ard Boyz tournament. I had three goals: 1) play fast (our local store penalized you if you don't complete a game within the allocated time), 2) win close combats (I expected to see Orks, Nurgle Daemons and Tyranids several times), and 3) make a viable army with FOUR Landraiders.

HQ
Venerable Dreadnought (Assault Cannon, DCCW, Storm Bolter)
Rune Priest (Rune Staff, Frost Blade, Chooser of the Slain, Wolf Pelt)
Wolf Guard Battle Leader (Runic Charm, Wolf Pelt, Frag Grenades, Frost Blade, Storm Shield, 4 Fenrisian Wolves)
Wolf Guard Battle Leader (Runic Charm, Wolf Pelt, Frag Grenades, Frost Blade, Storm Shield)

ELITE
7 Wolf Guard Bodyguard (7 Runic Charm, 2 Wolf Pelt, 2 Wolf Tail Talisman, 2 Power Fist, 5 Storm Shield, Bolt Pistol, Power Weapon, 3 Bolter, 1 Frag Grenades)
-- Transport: Landraider

TROOPS
11 Blood Claws (Meltagun, 3 Power Fists)
11 Blood Claws (Meltagun, 3 Power Fists)
10 Grey Hunters (Meltagun, Power Fist, Power Weapon)

HEAVY
Land Raider
Land Raider
Land Raider

THE PLAN: Space Wolves use the Space Marine codex for their wargear and their vehicles, so that gave me sweet, 3++ Storm Shields (for 5pts) and Landraiders with a capacity of 12. I designed each of the Wolf Guard to have slightly different gear so I could be more effective with wound allocation. This unit ended up being an unbelievable terror in close combat (taking out TWO Hive Tyrants, Tyrant Guard, one or two Carnifex, Belial and a decent number of Deathwing Terminators). Judicious use of Storm Caller was also a key tactic.

THE TRICK: Storm Caller let me go first with my Frost Blades in almost every combat. I also used Storm Caller a couple of times on advancing Landraiders to get a cover save. The Venerable Dreadnought gave me a re-roll on first turn. The improved Counter Attack made all of my units terrifying to assault.

HIGH POINT: Wiping out a brood of Genestealers that assaulted my Wolf Guard without taking a single wound. The Storm Shields and Runic Charms were just amazing.

LOW POINT: Stupidly sacrificing my Rune Priest (and my Psychic Hood), giving Darkwynn's Psyker Battle Squad a much needed opening.

This was my first tournament playing Space Wolves and I really loved it. Now I know what all the fuss is about, lol. Since I didn't get a chance to really optimize the list, I'd love some feedback from you Space Wolves fanatics!

You can get a few more details (and leave me comments) at http://flywire.tumblr.com/post/154030112/space-wolves-2009-ard-boyz

--Mkerr

TheKingElessar
08-01-2009, 11:25 PM
Why not Crusaders over LRPs?

Abominable Plague Marine
08-01-2009, 11:36 PM
And people say the current Space Wolf Codex isnt nasty.......or maybe its just you? Kidding, but that is a pretty hard core list. Besides my Guard list, everything else would struggle, and even my Guard would get eaten if you reached my lines!

mkerr
08-02-2009, 09:05 AM
Why not Crusaders over LRPs?

I really agonized over that. But I had two reasons:

1) Two of the missions started with Nightfight and my Landraiders had acute senses. I was hoping that a bunch of twin-linked Lascannons on the first turn, might be able to deal with trouble spots (Medusas, Demolishers, soften up monstrous creatures, etc.). That worked really well.

2) Other landraider armies. I was expecting to face at least one 3 Landraider army and I wanted to be able to control the charges. 8 TLLC give me a decent chance of dealing with that.

In the end, I feel like the standard Landraider was superior for this particular army.


And people say the current Space Wolf Codex isnt nasty.......or maybe its just you? Kidding, but that is a pretty hard core list. Besides my Guard list, everything else would struggle, and even my Guard would get eaten if you reached my lines!

Even Darkwynn's incredibly abusive IG army struggled with the list. The game really did hinge on a few lucky (and unlucky rolls). With a tiny bit of tuning, I think this is my favorite 'Ard Boyz list (and I expect to see it appear at least once in the next round, lol).

TheKingElessar
08-02-2009, 09:12 AM
I was not aware they got Acute Senses. In that case, I agree with your decision. I still think that Dark Eldar would be able to table you, however - but that's pretty much a given with Raider Spam.

mkerr
08-02-2009, 09:46 AM
All "Space Wolves units" get Acute Senses (so that included my Landraiders and my Venerable Dreadnought).

I also planned on making a case for my Venerable Dreadnought getting Counter Attack, but the opportunity never appeared, lol.

JWolf's Dark Eldar would've made for a really short and painful game. I kept a close eye on his game to make sure that I scored fewer points -- I really wanted to avoid both JWolf's Dark Eldar and Darkwynn's Imperial Guard.

--MKerr

Darkwynn
08-02-2009, 10:03 PM
Yes too Bad Search lights till lit you up and the medusa cracked open the land raiders....

I was so close on taking the Black Templar version of that army too Mkerr or 150 guys on foot but Black templar just have it so rough right now :(

mkerr
08-03-2009, 09:40 AM
Yes too Bad Search lights till lit you up and the medusa cracked open the land raiders....

Medusas are great at cracking Landraiders. It was a fun game though.

-- MKerr

mkerr
08-05-2009, 07:13 PM
I originally built this list for the first round of the 2009 Ard Boyz, but decided against it when I heard there were steep penalties for not finishing games (this army has lots of models to set-up and tear down). Enjoy!

I have a lot more to say about the army in the Mkerr's Flywire Tumbr post (http://flywire.tumblr.com/post/156736053/2500-witch-hunters-roster).

HQ
WH Inquisitor Lord (Psychic Hood)
— Retinue: Acolyte, 1 Chirurgeon, 3 Heavy Bolter Gun Servitors

DH Inquisitor Lord (Psycannon)
— Retinue: Sage, 2 Mystics, 3 Heavy Bolter Gun Servitors

ELITE
WH Inquisitor
— Retinue: Acolyte, Chirurgeon, 3 Heavy Bolter Gun Servitors

DH Inquisitor (Psycannon)
— Retinue: Sage, 2 Mystics, 3 Heavy Bolter Gun Servitors

TROOPS
10 Sisters of Battle (2 Meltaguns, VSS w/Book of St Lucius)
10 Sisters of Battle (2 Meltaguns, VSS w/Book of St Lucius)

Imperial Guard Infantry Platoon
— Platoon Command (Medi-pack, 3 Plasma Guns), Chimera
— Infantry Squad (Meltagun), Chimera
— Infantry Squad (Meltagun), Chimera
— Special Weapons Squad (3 Meltaguns)
— Special Weapons Squad (3 Meltaguns)

Imperial Guard Infantry Platoon
— Platoon Command (Medi-pack, 3 Plasma Guns), Chimera
— Infantry Squad (Meltagun, Lascannon)
— Infantry Squad (Meltagun, Lascannon)
— Heavy Weapons Squad (3 Lascannon)
— Heavy Weapons Squad (3 Lascannon)
— Heavy Weapons Squad (3 Autocannon)
— Heavy Weapons Squad (3 Autocannon)

HEAVY SUPPORT
Exorcist
Exorcist
Exorcist

THE TRICK: There really aren’t any tricks in this army, but this army has tons of options. In a big game, options always outweigh tricks.

THE PLAN: Shoot the bejeesus out of my opponent. Target the closest until until it is broken/gone and then move to the next one. The army has an answer for every major tournament army, so it will be fun to test out.

As always, comments are welcome (here or on the Flywire Tumbr post (http://flywire.tumblr.com/post/156736053/2500-witch-hunters-roster)).

-- MKerr

Silver
08-19-2009, 04:43 PM
why the melta and the lascannon in the infantry squads??? i mean, i can see that theyre both anti tank but doesnt the range difference make the meltas sort of redundant???

mkerr
08-19-2009, 10:11 PM
why the melta and the lascannon in the infantry squads??? i mean, i can see that theyre both anti tank but doesnt the range difference make the meltas sort of redundant???

Meltaguns aren't just anti-tank - they are anti-everything.

Plasma Guns work fine in those squads (and so do Grenade Launchers). I prefer Meltaguns because the hardest nut for this army to crack is the Landraider Rush and tons of Monstrous Creatures -- i.e., anything that can advance under withing fire.

This gives me a last chance to bust a tank that gets too close.

-- MKer

mkerr
08-19-2009, 10:14 PM
Bigred asked for a Badab Space Marines army list that doesn’t take a lot of time or thought to play. But he wanted something with lots of Landraiders and a nice punch.

Here’s the 3,000pt list I made him (you can read a bit more on the Flywire (http://flywire.tumblr.com/post/167050917/bolscon-army-list-1) about the army):

HQ
Pedro Kantor
Librarian (Terminator Armor, Might of the Ancients, Gate of Infinity)

TROOPS
10-man Tactical Squad (Meltagun, Missile Launcher, Sergeant w/Power Weapon, Teleport Homer)
10-man Tactical Squad (Flamer, Missile Launcher, Sergeant w/Power Weapon)
10-man Tactical Squad (Flamer, Missile Launcher, Sergeant w/Power Fist)
10-man Tactical Squad (Flamer, Missile Launcher, Sergeant w/Power Fist)

ELITE
10 Terminators (2 Assault Cannnon)
10 Terminators (2 Assault Cannnon)
— Transport: Landraider

HEAVY
Land Raider
Land Raider
Land Raider

DEPLOYMENT: The Tactical squads deploy in the Landraiders; Pedro joins the squad with the Teleport Homer (preferably in the Landraider in the middle of the pack). The Terminators and Librarian are held in reserve and come in on the Teleport Homer.

As always, comments are welcome (here or on the Flywire Tumbr post (http://flywire.tumblr.com/post/167050917/bolscon-army-list-1)).

-- MKerr

Gir
08-21-2009, 02:11 AM
You realise that you can't deploy tact marines in the Terminators Lr right? You have to deploy them outside and get them to enter first turn.

Herald of Nurgle
08-21-2009, 08:00 AM
You realise that you can't deploy tact marines in the Terminators Lr right? You have to deploy them outside and get them to enter first turn.
And even if they could get in first turn, the LR and Terms come in at the same time.

DevilUknow
08-21-2009, 08:08 AM
And even if they could get in first turn, the LR and Terms come in at the same time.

I'm fairly certain that unless a squad is loaded into the LR, they are considered different units as far as deployment goes.

So the LR could be on the table on turn 1 and the termies can DS in later.

mkerr
08-21-2009, 08:31 AM
You realise that you can't deploy tact marines in the Terminators Lr right? You have to deploy them outside and get them to enter first turn.

Yes, the tactical marines will have to embark on the dedicated Landraider on the first turn. But this doesn't prevent the Landraider from moving after they embark.


And even if they could get in first turn, the LR and Terms come in at the same time.

DevilUknow is correct. There's a decent amount of confusion about dedicated transports, but they work just like separate units except: 1) they don't take up an extra slot and 2) it can only carry the unit that purchased the transport when it's deployed (this prevents you from putting allied Grey Knights in a Tactical Marine Drop Pod, for example).

So I can put deploy the Landraider normally and hold the Terminator squad in Reserve.

-- MKerr

mkerr
08-26-2009, 04:19 PM
If you didn't get a chance to go to BOLSCON, you missed some gorgeous armies and some glorious fights. One of he best, was Jawaball's Blood Angels army (here's a link to his blog (http://warhammer40kbloodangels.blogspot.com/)). The amazing painting and his enthusiasm really made me miss playing my Blood Angels.

I think this week is a good week to put the fear of Sanguinius into our local Imperial Guard players:

HQ
Dante
Honor Guard (Sanguinary Priest, BA Chapter Banner, 2 Power Weapons)
Corbulo

ELITE
8-man Death Company (Jump Packs)

TROOPS
10-man Tactical (Power Weapon, Meltagun, Lascannon)
Transport: Rhino (Extra Armor)
10-man Tactical (Meltagun, Lascannon)
Transport: Rhino (Extra Armor)
10-man Assault Squad (Jump Packs, Power Weapon)
10-man Assault Squad (Jump Packs, Power Weapon)

HEAVY
Baal Predator (Heavy Bolter Sponsons)
Baal Predator (Heavy Bolter Sponsons)

TACTICS: This army is pretty easy to use. Use the vehicles to shield your approach. Keep your Death Company near Corbulo's Rhino to counter Rage. Keep as much of your army in the Corbulo and Dante's overlapping "Jean Claude Venn Diagram of Death".

Combat Squad your tactical marines and put the Lascannon in cover with good fields of fire (preferably near an objective or two in your deployment zone). Put Corbulo in one of the Rhinos. Don't be stingy with smoke and be careful with your overcharged engines (make sure that it won't ruin your day if you get an Can't Move result).

More details on how to use the list can be found on the Flywire (http://flywire.tumblr.com/post/172427406/blood-angels-2000pt-list). As always, comments are appreciated.

mkerr
08-28-2009, 08:51 AM
Here are the results of last night's game:

GAME: I managed to score a game against crazyredpraetorian's (http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/member.php?u=22) Imperial Guard. You can see his army at his Crazy Red Praetorians blog (http://crazyredpraetorian.blogspot.com/).

I have to admit I was a bit nervous because this was our first game against each other and CRP's IG were consistently on the top 5 tables in the BOLSCON Championship Tournament, bringing in massacre after massacre. CRP has been playing his army for many years and has a ton of 5E games under his belt. I've been switching from army to army in 5E, becoming sort of a "jack of all trades, master of none".

THE PLAN: Since he deployed widely, my plan was to focus my army into a point on one flank. That would let me apply 1800pts of pressure to 750pts of his army -- keeping me out of range of pesky "first rank, FIRE! second rank, FIRE" range and forcing him to lumber his Demolisher. I would use my shooting to keep his Hydras and Demolisher stunned and then let the Blood Angels do their job. Hopefully I would be entrenched before his Reserves came on, forcing him to defend his deployment zone -- giving me an easy objective to control in mine.

DEPLOYMENT: He got the first turn and deployed pretty widely, his long range shooting gave his army a deadly field of fire. Keeping two squads (bearing many meltas) in reserve. I built a fort on my far left side of the board (out of the Demolisher's reach) with my vehicles, shielding my Dealth Company and Honor Guard. I broke all of my units into combat squads (putting the Lascannon teams in terrain and spreading out the Assault Marines to put pressure on his left flank. The goal was to give him some attractive units to shoot to draw fire from my "tank fort".

THE RESULT: CRP's first round of shooting was abysmal -- baredly scratching the red paint on my Blood Angels. After an impressive round of shooting passed, I'd lost the main gun on a Baal and a couple of Assault Marine combat squads (dangled in front of him to attract fire). Most of my vehicles went fast and my shooting accomplished my goals. I was in assault on Turn 2 and managed to control the momementum of the rest of the game.

CRP was forced to defend against the onslaught, but kept the mission objectives in mind and played it smart. Even though the luck and momemtum was clearly on my side, he kept pushing for the objectives and forced me to play very carefully.

It was a great game and a ton of fun. It was nice getting a Blood Angels win against a 5E Imperial Guard army, but I have to give most of the credit to bad luck on CRP's side. Even with my expert generalship (!) and tricksy ways, CRP clearly started the game with the advantage (better army, good mission, and first turn).

It just goes to show you that it takes more than a superior army to win games; luck, mission, matchup and experience are still the dominant factors in WH40K.

Thanks for the game, CRP!

Spanklet
08-29-2009, 04:53 AM
Looks like a serious list.. yow

Craz
08-29-2009, 11:33 AM
TACTICS: This army is pretty easy to use. Use the vehicles to shield your approach. Keep your Death Company near Corbulo's Rhino to counter Rage. Keep as much of your army in the Corbulo and Dante's overlapping "Jean Claude Venn Diagram of Death".

Ha! I always called them "The bubble of awesome", but I like your name, mkerr. I run a list very similar to this one, just with more assault squads, a vindi, dread and extra tactical squad(I'm not a huge fan of honour guards). But yea, I will be the first to say it. S5I5 with re-rolls to hit and usually -1 to your enemies' weapon skill make for a very happy Blood Angels day. 1-2 turns is all you need to kill just about anything in the game.

mkerr
08-30-2009, 06:06 PM
(I'm not a huge fan of honour guards). But yea, I will be the first to say it. S5I5 with re-rolls to hit and usually -1 to your enemies' weapon skill make for a very happy Blood Angels day. 1-2 turns is all you need to kill just about anything in the game.

The extra attack for Dante and the second Exsanguinator make the Honor Guard a no brainer for me, especially against opponent's that don't know that much about Blood Angels. I find that the average player will focus all of their attention on the Death Company (protected by FNP and two Exsanguinators) and end up ignoring Dante and the Honor Guard. That's a mistake you only make once, lol.

-- mkerr

Duke
08-31-2009, 11:17 AM
I can support Mkerr in backing the Honour guard. I must say that since third ed codex the honour guard is the ninja unit of the Blood Angels, so many people fear the DC so much they ignore the HG. Like Mkerr said, it is only a mistake they make once.

Duke

Ming
09-01-2009, 05:19 PM
I dunno, the list seems light on Fists. I could see a couple of simple ork Kan Mobz or assault terminator squads tarpitting most of the list. I very much enjoy the JawaBlogs. I'm secretly collecting a BA army right now...

mkerr
09-02-2009, 12:58 PM
I dunno, the list seems light on Fists. I could see a couple of simple ork Kan Mobz or assault terminator squads tarpitting most of the list. I very much enjoy the JawaBlogs. I'm secretly collecting a BA army right now...

With Dante, you don't really need Power Fists. And with Corbulo, you want as many Power Weapons as you can bring (I5 is nasty).

Against vehicles with a WS, you have Preferred Enemy Krak Grenades! A single Tactical Squad can bring down Kanz and Dreadnoughts very quickly.

Assault Terminators seem like a problem, but I can almost always control the assault. If I'm assaulting, they just won't survive Dante, Honor Guard and Death Company. It's just too many armor penetrating I5 attacks. Even if some survive, I still have Preferred Enemy on the next assault phase and will finish off the squad.

My opponent's are always a bit surprised by the shooting a Blood Angels army can put out. I've got 2 Lascannon, 3 Meltaguns (including Dante's pistol) and two Baal Predators. That's usually enough to deal with the heavy armor I've faced (Russes aren't a problem, but too many Landraiders can be a pain).

mkerr
09-02-2009, 01:01 PM
Here's the Chaos Daemons list I'm taking for a walk tonight. I'm still learning how to play the army, so I'm sure I'll stumble a few times.

In this fairly standard Fateweaver list, I'm bringing Tzeentch Daemons (Fateweaver, Horrors, Flamers and my Tzeentch Daemon Prince) as my first wave. The second wave is all Khorne (Bloodthirster, Bloodletters and my shiny, new Khorne Daemon Prince).

HQ
Fateweaver
Bloodthirster (Death Strike, Blessings of the Blood God)

ELITES
3 Flamers of Tzeentch (Bolt of Tzeentch)
3 Flamers of Tzeentch (Bolt of Tzeentch)

TROOPS
10 Bloodletters
10 Bloodletters
12 Pink Horrors (Bolt of Tzeentch, Chaos Icon)
12 Pink Horrors (Bolt of Tzeentch, Chaos Icon, The Changeling)

HEAVY
Daemon Prince (Iron Hide, Mark of Khorne, Death Strike)
Daemon Prince (Mark of Tzeentch, Master of Sorcery, Bolt of Tzeentch, Daemonic Gaze)

More details on how to use the list (including how I plan to use it!) can be found on the Flywire (http://flywire.tumblr.com/post/178129575/2000pt-chaos-daemons). As always, comments are appreciated.

Duke
09-03-2009, 10:48 AM
I think this list does one thing well, which I see Daemon players not doing enough of... you have picked the army as 'two lists,' a lot of daemon players I have played pick the list as a whole and decide on the spot which models will be the first wave.

I think keeping Khorne as the second wave is an obviously good idea... granted I don't play daemons, but this list has a lot more thought in it than the lists I have played against.

-Duke

mkerr
09-03-2009, 11:42 AM
I think this list does one thing well, which I see Daemon players not doing enough of... you have picked the army as 'two lists,' a lot of daemon players I have played pick the list as a whole and decide on the spot which models will be the first wave.

I still haven't found the army's "voice". I'm hoping that a few more games will help. I need to add a few more elite and fast units to the army -- although I'm really curious is an all-Tzeenth army is viable. Chaos Daemon gunline?

-- mkerr

Duke
09-03-2009, 03:29 PM
@Mkerr: I can't say for sure that it would be viable because I only play against them. One thing I can say is that it would be interesting to see, especially with the way the daemon armies work combined with the idea of a gunline, if you were to do it the obvious first step is redundency. Just my two cents

Duke

Nikephoros
09-03-2009, 03:53 PM
Here's the Chaos Daemons list I'm taking for a walk tonight. I'm still learning how to play the army, so I'm sure I'll stumble a few times.

In this fairly standard Fateweaver list, I'm bringing Tzeentch Daemons (Fateweaver, Horrors, Flamers and my Tzeentch Daemon Prince) as my first wave. The second wave is all Khorne (Bloodthirster, Bloodletters and my shiny, new Khorne Daemon Prince).

HQ
Fateweaver
Bloodthirster (Death Strike, Blessings of the Blood God)

ELITES
3 Flamers of Tzeentch (Bolt of Tzeentch)
3 Flamers of Tzeentch (Bolt of Tzeentch)

TROOPS
10 Bloodletters
10 Bloodletters
12 Pink Horrors (Bolt of Tzeentch, Chaos Icon)
12 Pink Horrors (Bolt of Tzeentch, Chaos Icon, The Changeling)

HEAVY
Daemon Prince (Iron Hide, Mark of Khorne, Death Strike)
Daemon Prince (Mark of Tzeentch, Master of Sorcery, Bolt of Tzeentch, Daemonic Gaze)

More details on how to use the list (including how I plan to use it!) can be found on the Flywire (http://flywire.tumblr.com/post/178129575/2000pt-chaos-daemons). As always, comments are appreciated.

I like the list a lot, except the Khorne prince. With only a plasma pistol for a ranged attack, and no wings I think he is a pretty big waste of points. For 145 points you could get 3 blood crushers with Fury and Instrument for wound allocation. I know its pretty cliche list, but I think 3 Crushers is better vs almost everything than a wingless, non-shooty DP.

Warmaster
09-03-2009, 04:30 PM
The mono tzeentch gunline is definitely an army to be feared. I've taken it to several tournaments and a lot of pick up games. It's a very tough nut to crack except for large horde lists, they give them a bit of a problem. The new mechanized environment is a thing of beauty for the list.

Duke
09-04-2009, 02:09 PM
Where are the witch hunters?! lol

mkerr
09-05-2009, 04:06 PM
Where are the witch hunters?! lol

I'll do something with Witch Hunter next. I'm itching to play with an Imperial Operative, lol.

-- mkerr

sorri
09-05-2009, 07:56 PM
I'll do something with Witch Hunter next. I'm itching to play with an Imperial Operative, lol.

-- mkerr

I'm looking forward to seeing this one. :)

bepps
09-06-2009, 10:05 AM
A perfect time to kick off the Tactica Witch Hunter thread too. :)

mkerr
09-09-2009, 12:14 AM
A bit of a change of plans. I'm posting a *new* Space Wolves list tonight.

Here's the meat:

HQ
Ragnar Blackmane (2 Fenrisian Wolves)
Rune Priest (Jaws of the World Wolf, Storm Caller)

ELITES
7-man Wolf Scouts Pack (Power Weapon, Meltagun) w/Wolf Guard (Wolf Claw)
Lone Wolf (Meltabombs)
Lone Wolf (Meltabombs)

TROOPS
10 Grey Hunters (2 Meltaguns, Power Fist) w/Wolf Guard (Wolf Claw)
— Transport: Drop Pod
10 Grey Hunters (2 Meltaguns, Power Fist)
— Transport: Rhino
10 Grey Hunters (2 Meltaguns, Power Fist)
— Transport: Rhino
11 Bloodclaws (Flamer, Power Fist) w/Wolf Guard (Wolf Claw)

HEAVY
5 Long Fangs (3 Heavy Bolters, 1 Lascannon) w/Wolf Guard
5 Long Fangs (3 Heavy Bolters, 1 Lascannon) w/Wolf Guard
Land Raider Crusader (Multi-melta)

For more on how to use the list and my thoughts, check out the Flywire (http://flywire.tumblr.com/) (http://flywire.tumblr.com/post/183463355/2000pt-space-wolves-list-new-codex).

Comments are most welcome!

-- mkerr

Duke
09-09-2009, 03:28 PM
Disclosure: I haven't seen or read the new SW codex previews...

1. Since the Bloodclaw have no transport Im assuming they go in the LR crusader with ragnar. If so, that is going to be a mean unit!

2. The 7 man scout unit. P. wep, melta Gun, Wolf guard. What is their specific role... Or are they a 'multi-role unit,' intentionally.

3. Im not sure how the deployment of the Lone Wolf works, but are you confident that you can get them both killed?

4. Seems like a really fun list! I am really looking forward to having my Vampires (BA) fight some Warewolves (SW) again.

PS- Why no Njal Stormcaller, he seems pretty stacked.

RocketRollRebel
09-09-2009, 04:05 PM
Sounds pretty nice I'm looking forward to seeing the new book.

To Duke, Cant wait for it either man! haha Glory to the IX Legion!

crazyredpraetorian
09-09-2009, 04:12 PM
No Mark of the Wulfen? I'm shocked!

mkerr
09-09-2009, 04:47 PM
Hey Duke!

You can get some details on how I would use the list on the Flywire site (http://flywire.tumblr.com/post/183463355/2000pt-space-wolves-list-new-codex).


1. Since the Bloodclaw have no transport Im assuming they go in the LR crusader with ragnar. If so, that is going to be a mean unit!

Rangnar, his Fenrisian wolves, the Rune Priest and the Blood Claws (with their Wolf Guard buddy) ride in the Crusader. Filling it to capacity (16).


2. The 7 man scout unit. P. wep, melta Gun, Wolf guard. What is their specific role... Or are they a 'multi-role unit,' intentionally.

Wolf Scout squads held in reserve can choose any table edge for deployment on a 3+. That means that the unit will probably have some options. I chose two Power Weapons (Power Weapon and Wolf Claw) and Meltagun to give them the most options. When in doubt, they head toward Ragnar.


3. Im not sure how the deployment of the Lone Wolf works, but are you confident that you can get them both killed?

The are sort of like the Space Wolf version of Lictors. For the price (~25pts), they are fantastic. Just wait to you what Beastslayer does. I really want to test them out, but since they always concede a Kill Point I may limit myself to one.


PS- Why no Njal Stormcaller, he seems pretty stacked.

It's going to take some time to find Njal's place in an army. He's got some great options, but I wanted to start out with an in-your-face Space Wolves army, lol!


No Mark of the Wulfen? I'm shocked!

It doesn't really sit well with Ragnar's ability, but I'm thinking about Mark of the Wolfen on one of those Lone Wolves, lol.

Thanks for the comments!

-- mkerr

RogueGarou
09-09-2009, 05:15 PM
Well, I have played Daemons quite a bit and enjoyed them after I got some Flamers. I don't have any Horrors yet but they look nice. I usually run two squads of Flamers but a bit larger, 5-7 models. They typically devastate whatever they land next to and then attract so much fire, and assaults, that the rest of the first wave is unscathed. I use the lure of the Flamers to maul something and then to draw so much attention that it buys me a turn for the assault elements to actually get into the mix.

At 2000 points my first wave is usually Kugath, 2x Flamers, a Soul Grinder, and Flesh Hounds. The second wave is Bloodletters, Daemonettes, Plaguebearers, or Screamers. Kugath is usually able to withstand a lot of fire and the Soul Grinder survives better with the Flamers on the table. The Hounds can charge into a unit to deny them shooting or tie up a unit for the assault element to plow in. In our local gaming group this has worked pretty well. In fact, the Flamers even tend to draw anti-armor fire as my opponents tend to want them dead and get frustrated when the 4+ save lets them stick around and remain a threat if they don't kill them. I have had marvelous results from my Flamers and think they may be about the deadliest unit in the Daemons list. But that is because they fit my style of play and the armies I face around here. Your mileage may vary.

mkerr
09-09-2009, 08:49 PM
They typically devastate whatever they land next to and then attract so much fire, and assaults, that the rest of the first wave is unscathed. I use the lure of the Flamers to maul something and then to draw so much attention that it buys me a turn for the assault elements to actually get into the mix.

That's an interesting idea. It's a bit pricey for a fire magnet, but if it keeps your Khorne daemons alive...


At 2000 points my first wave is usually Kugath, 2x Flamers, a Soul Grinder, and Flesh Hounds.

Kugath is a monster, but I just don't care for Nurgle stuff. It seems silly to spend a lot on models to make them look gross, lol.

Right now I'm trying to figure out if I can make a Skarbrand list and an all-Tzeentch list. Tough challenges, I suspect, but it could be a lot of fun.


Your mileage may vary.

Love it! A man after my own heart!

-- mkerr

Craz
09-09-2009, 09:14 PM
So, on your list, it says '10 Grey Hunters w/ Wolf Guard'. Is the Wolf Guardsman one of those ten?

mkerr
09-09-2009, 09:30 PM
So, on your list, it says '10 Grey Hunters w/ Wolf Guard'. Is the Wolf Guardsman one of those ten?

Nope, it was a mistake when I made the list. The Wolf Guard won't fit into the Rhino -- I shifted them to the Long Fangs for now. I'm also just noticing that they won't fit in the Drop Pod either -- apparently space wolves are a little more "dude space (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Dude%20Space)" than codex marines.

I'm on the fence at this point. I really like the free second special weapon, but the Wolf Guard is a great addition to the Tactical squad (something of a Swiss army knife). Since I can't have both, I'm going to have to look at the list again.

At this point, I'm leaning to cutting the Grey Hunters down to 9 plus a Wolf Guard (giving me two "powered" weapons and a meltagun) in both Rhinos and the Drop Pod. I'll probably shift the extra points (maybe cutting the second Lone Wolf too) to the Long Fangs (I'm starting to think that 3 Heavy Bolters and 2 Lascannon might be a better use of the squad -- even if they draw more attention).

Thoughts?

revnow
09-10-2009, 08:10 AM
That's not a lot of models or firepower output for a 2000 pt. army Mkerr. And only 1 Land Raider? Those Lone Wolves must be pretty expensive. I would think most 2000 pt. armies in 5th Edition should have enough firepower to stall 1 Crusader pretty early on. I don't think its a critique of your list specifically, just that the Space Wolves look really expensive, especially at 2k points.

Duke
09-10-2009, 09:15 AM
Maybe this is a duh statement, but how many points will you save by not adding the wolfguard? Sometimes we get that itching feeling like we want our tac squads to be able to handle anything...However, you might be able to afford something cool if you don't do the Wolf guard (I really wish I had the codex so I could help more).

Duke

mkerr
09-10-2009, 12:42 PM
Maybe this is a duh statement, but how many points will you save by not adding the wolfguard?

A Wolf Guard with a Wolf Claw is only 8pts more than a standard Grey Hunter. Not exactly a bad deal, lol.


That's not a lot of models or firepower output for a 2000 pt. army Mkerr. And only 1 Land Raider? Those Lone Wolves must be pretty expensive. I would think most 2000 pt. armies in 5th Edition should have enough firepower to stall 1 Crusader pretty early on. I don't think its a critique of your list specifically, just that the Space Wolves look really expensive, especially at 2k points.

The Lone Wolves are dirt cheap (start at 20pts), but you pay for them in another way (i.e., they always give up a kill point to your opponent).

Yeah, you may have to screen the Crusader with the Rhinos to get it there. Ragnar is really just a conceit in this list (I just want to try him out). I suspect that I'll drop him and add a cheap Wolf Lord and a second Land Raider for a more competitive army.

Something like 2 units of Blood Claws in Land Raiders (with Rune Priest and Wolf Lord) and 2 units of Grey Hunters in Drop Pods would be an interesting start. All Drop Pods is also viable with this codex. A unit of 10 Grey Hunters (with 2 meltaguns) in a Rhino is ~180pts, so all Rhinos is also viable.

I'm going to give the army a spin and see how it works tonight. I'm sure there's TONS of tuning that needs to be done.

-- mkerr

mkerr
09-10-2009, 12:43 PM
I've got a list revision that's going up on the blog tonight (we decided to open up the conversation to everyone).

Duke
09-10-2009, 02:44 PM
...I'm sure there's TONS of tuning that needs to be done.

-- mkerr


Weird, I never have to tweak my lsits, they always come out just perfect the first time, ;)


Duke

40k Addict
09-12-2009, 10:26 AM
Can we have your take on a SM Bike army? Either with Mech or with Terminators, or just Vanilla Marines? I found them moderatly effective, but I want to see a mean (perfect) list!!

mkerr
09-12-2009, 02:39 PM
Can we have your take on a SM Bike army? Either with Mech or with Terminators, or just Vanilla Marines? I found them moderatly effective, but I want to see a mean (perfect) list!!

My lists are far from perfect, lol! I have been tinkering with a couple of bike armies so I'll see what I can put up. I'm intruiged by Scout Bikers (relatively inexpensive, big unit sizes, astartes grenade launchers, cluster mines and locator beacons) and I'm also interested in Space Wolves bikers (cheap, big units, nasty in close combat). I'm not as interested in building a Vulkan bike lists (effective, yes - fun, not so much) -- so I'm not sure how mean I can make them, lol!

I'll add it to the list and see what I can put together.

Thanks for the comment!

-- mkerr

Dawson_IVC
09-24-2009, 01:48 PM
Right now I'm trying to figure out if I can make a Skarbrand list and an all-Tzeentch list. Tough challenges, I suspect, but it could be a lot of fun.

All-Tzeentch is amazing actually.

HQ
Fateweaver
The Bluescribes

ELITES
4 Flamers of Tzeentch
4 Flamers of Tzeentch
4 Flamers of Tzeentch

TROOPS
13 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch(The Changeling, Bolt of Tzeentch)
13 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch(Bolt of Tzeentch)
13 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch(Bolt of Tzeentch)

HEAVY
Daemon Prince (Mark of Tzeentch, Breath of Chaos, Instrument of Chaos)
Daemon Prince (Mark of Tzeentch, Breath of Chaos, Instrument of Chaos)
Daemon Prince (Mark of Tzeentch, Breath of Chaos)

1996 pts

Everything has at least a 4+ invul. Pink horrors may be the best troop choice in this book. 13 horrors puts out an amazing amount of shots. Attach the Scribes to a flamer unit so you can pavane them together or towards you for maximum firepower. And you still have 4 MCs to run rampant on your board.

Duke
10-14-2009, 10:19 AM
Mkerr, its been a month since your last "list of the week," what happened buddy? lol.

Cheers!

Duke

mkerr
10-14-2009, 12:38 PM
I knew someone was going to call me on that one, lol. I've been working on a Rogue Trader game (and a new super secret project) for the past few weeks.

You can get more details on some of my progress on the Flywire: flywire.tumblr.com (http://flywire.tumblr.com)

But thanks for the reminder and I'll put up some new lists soon!

-- mkerr

Duke
10-14-2009, 01:12 PM
I knew someone was going to call me on that one, lol. I've been working on a Rogue Trader game (and a new super secret project) for the past few weeks.

You can get more details on some of my progress on the Flywire: flywire.tumblr.com (http://flywire.tumblr.com)

But thanks for the reminder and I'll put up some new lists soon!

-- mkerr

Talking points:
1. Rouge Trader- I must say that I am green with envy... I would love to get in a group and give that system a good run through.

2. Super Secret project - I also have been working on a super secret project which I will soon reveal to the whole world!!! Bwahahahaha!!!, ok, that was a total lie...

3. New lists: Looking forward to it... Maybe to release the pressure you could retitle the thread "Mkerr's list of every other week." ;)

Cheers

Duke

mkerr
10-26-2009, 01:27 PM
Hey all!

Please check out ChainFist.com (http://www.chainfist.com) for my latest army lists and tacticas. I'll be updating this thread as well, but if you want more Mkerr-isms, then joing me at ChainFist.

You can also email me your lists for more feedback -- just send them to mkerr@chainfist.com

-- mkerr

mkerr
11-15-2009, 09:26 PM
Here's a list that I used in this weekend's local 'Eavy Tournament (our most competitive local tournament):

http://www.chainfist.com/2009/11/army-list-imperial-guard-wh-allies.html

Follow the link for the details on how I used the army list.

HQ
Company Command Squad (Lord Castellan Creed, 2x Plasmagun, Astropath)

ELITE
10-man Psyker Battle Squad
-- Transport: Chimera
Guardsman Marbo
9-man Sisters Repentia Squad (w/Priest)

TROOPS
Infantry Platoon #1
-- Platoon Command Squad (2x Meltaguns) in a Chimera
-- Infantry Squad (Grenade Launcher, Commissar)
-- Infantry Squad (Grenade Launcher)
-- Heavy Weapons Squad (3x Autocannon)
-- Heavy Weapons Squad (3x Lascannon)

Infantry Platoon #2
-- Platoon Command Squad (2x Meltaguns) in a Chimera
-- Infantry Squad (Grenade Launcher, Lascannon)
-- Infantry Squad (Grenade Launcher, Lascannon)
-- Heavy Weapons Squad (3x Missile Launchers)

HEAVY
Medusa
Leman Russ Punisher (3x Heavy Bolters, Extra Armor)
Leman Russ Punisher (3x Heavy Bolters, Extra Armor)

I'd love to hear your thoughts or comments!

Rupert
12-09-2009, 03:14 AM
Thats a nice list, not something I would personally play with but all the same a good list.

mkerr
12-28-2009, 11:43 PM
I've added a new Tyranid army list to Chainfist. Follow the jump for more notes, tactics and a "how to deploy the army" graphic.

http://www.chainfist.com/2009/12/tyranid-army-creeping-death.html

Here's the 2,000 point Creeping Death army list:

HQ
Alpha Warrior (pair of Boneswords, Scything Talons, Toxin Sacs)

Alpha Warrior (pair of Boneswords, Scything Talons, Toxin Sacs)

ELITE
2 Venomthropes

2 Hive Guard

2 Hive Guard

TROOPS
29 Termagants

29 Termagants

29 Termagants

Tervigon (Catalyst, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, Regenerate)

Tervigon (Catalyst, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, Regenerate)

Tervigon (Catalyst)

HEAVY SUPPORT
Carnifex (Heavy Barbed Strangler, Heavy Venom Cannon, Toxin Sacs)

Carnifex (Heavy Barbed Strangler, Heavy Venom Cannon, Toxin Sacs)

Comments are welcome (here or at Chainfist)!