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AirHorse
09-03-2009, 05:37 AM
So yeah im working on getting my marine force built up to something more competitive so i can pop into the local store more and get some good games out of it. I have a number of ideas floating around but kor'sarro always seems to catch my eye.

HQ - Kor'sarro on moondrakkan

Troops - 2x Tactical marines - melta, multi-melta, combi-melta in rhino
2x Tactical marines - flamer, multi-melta, combi-flamer in rhino

Fast attack - 10x assault marines - power weapon, melta bombs

Heavy Support - 2x predator - autocannon and sponson heavy bolters, extra armour

total - 1485pts

Now the plan is for kor'sarro to join with the assault marines and outflank(theres no problems with that right? they move at the speed of the slowest model i think), tactical marines move to the enemy threats or objectives in their rhinos and the predators pop open transports for me before turning their attention to whatever else they can bring pain to. what do you reckon? I figured since i cant think of anything else to get i might chuck some melta bombs on my flamer sergeants.

GreenMarines
09-03-2009, 06:25 AM
I would take power weapon or power fist for the seargents.

Chumbalaya
09-03-2009, 07:29 AM
Don't outflank your entire army.


Outflanking with an entire army is crap. Until you can choose where it comes in or re-roll the dice for where it comes in (coming to a Codex near you soon!) it's just no damn good.

See, you can totally shut down outflanking by:

1) Parking your entire army on one flank. Anything that comes in on the wrong flank is useless. 6 feet of board to cross is epic failure in 40k. Even Khorne armies will shoot you to pieces. lol

2) Place infantry up the entire other side with a vehicle or two at the 'top' of your infantry congo line. This stops most infantry from assaulting your infantry line, while your infantry prohibits most infantry from entering the board.

3) If you have a big mech force, you can block up an entire side from everything but jump pack units and jetbikes (who can fly over you). This kills any tank that tries to enter from that side and whatever it's carrying. You traveled 0" so you inflict a S5 hit with your Land Raider and even a Rhino will cause you to fail (max result with a glance is immobilized). You're offtable, and so you are dead. I almost let a LRC with termies on the board when a LR pen 6 one of my raiders in my DE army, then I remembered my 'dodge' save and blew it up when I made my save for being a skimmer. Yeah Dark Eldar have a field day with outflanking armies.

4) If you have long range shooty infantry units, sit them in a cluster behind the board edge defenders about 13" in so you can't be tank shocked (and about 18" in from the edge so fast tank shockers who can hit you, well...you at least have room to run away without running off board).

5) I don't think the outflank rules are very good anywhere in the game, because almost everything that can outflank is shooty or unable to assault when it arrives...and even those units that can barge onto the table will usually be unsupported and very expensive (LRC with assault termies who still only kill one unit).

6) If you run a outflank army, why did you take your strong on-table presence at the start of the game and throw it away to become some kind of random demon army? Sure you get to shoot first, and you only have half your army in and it's separated by SIX FEET of table. You think your opponents entire army can't smoke you? Please, spare me!

7) Only outflanking unit worth a damn is Ork Kommandos led by Snikrot, who get to come on anywhere and bring 1 or 2 Ork characters along for the ride. It's very hard to 'defend' against the entire freaking board edge! There are others that are situationally ok against certain armies, but in the end as a whole they still suck. Big picture is not one game, but three or five in a row.

Damn your censorship BoLS

40kGamer
09-03-2009, 08:19 AM
I really like the Khan! His big bonus isn't the outflanking - although it can be nice. The big bonus is furious charge. I stuck him on Moondraken and put him in a biker HQ squad with a few Lightning Claws and a Thunder Hammer. This unit does great against anything the enemy has to offer! I've munched nob bikers and termies with it. Of course it isn't super resilient so you have to be careful to limit incoming fire as much as possible. In large games You can throw some Storm Shields onto it which helps a lot or add a chaplain for some exceptional fun!!

Under the right circumstances the hit and run can be a thing of beauty too.

As far as outflanking goes. In an objective based game take care to place your choices near each flank. You can leave a couple of units off board to come on later and claim/contest these. Assault marines with Jump Packs can flay over any Congo line and then spin, shot it up and assault it. Even if they get stuck in a protracted combat they will still pull the lines away from the board edge. ;)

AirHorse
09-03-2009, 09:21 AM
hmm yeah a powerfist on some of the tactical sergeants is a good idea. I wasnt planning on outflanking generally with my tactical squads, maybe with the odd one but not really very much. I took kor'sarro with the assault squad so they could outflank and gain his furious charge ability to make them reasonabley nasty. If only I could outflank a predator or two and shoot up some tank *** :P

Timbo
09-03-2009, 03:18 PM
I disagree with many of Stele k's points. Although he likely wasn't considering Khan's ability to grant unusual units outflanking when he wrote his diatribe. Blocking off an entire side of a table sounds good in theory, but in practice? What turn could you achieve that on? How many vehicles do you need to have to do so? Infantry can't do it because the flankers can tank shock on. Putting all your vehicles on one side of the table is going to allow 2/3 of the flanking army first melta shots when they come on or first turn assaults. What if there are objectives on the other side? Are you just going to ignore them? It's a poorly thought out argument.

I'm tinkering with a Khan/Tigurius list right now to get around the problem of unreliable reserve rolls. I'd love to hear how your list does, good luck with it!

AirHorse
09-04-2009, 06:05 AM
I will hopefully get to play a game against my brother using some proxy models and try it out, since im trying to figure out which models to get :)