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DoctorEvil
09-03-2009, 10:47 PM
I'm FINALLY painting up a complete infantry squad this weekend for my guard army (Wooo!!!! 10 down.....100+ to go)....and I'm thinking to myself, what is the optimum configuration for the infantray platoon command squad.

So, I start thinking in terms of purpose...what do I want them to do? Static Gunline? Mobile Element? It seems to me that really determines the purpose of the CS. This ends up detemining special weapons choice as Sniper Rifles, GLs, and Plasma are really better suit to static elements, while Flamers & Melta require close range, hence mobility. Heavy Weapons are good for static, not so much for mobile. Power Sword & platoon standard good for mobile, maybe wasted on static.

I guess where I'm having problems is in terms of things liek Commisar & Power Fists. I like both options, but I'm questioning the effectiveness of spending the points for an infantry platoon CS.

So, how do other people configure thier Infantry Platoon Command Squads?

Talhydras
09-04-2009, 02:13 AM
I have 2 CS in my IG so far.

One has an officer with power fist and soldiers with a grenade launcher and a flamer and is meant to stick to my more mobile infantry squads. In addition to that, they are accompanied by an commissar with a power weapon (although I'd prefer power fists, S3 is some kind of useless in CC)
The other one has an officer with bolter (I like the look) and a lascannon or machinecannon. Obviously, this CS is designed for my more static squads. A commissar is attached as well (I don't know, they just... belong there? ^^).

An option I always take is the medic, but the rest depends on how you want to use it. Power weapons and power fists are just an option if the squad may encounter enemies in CC. If you use a static CS with heavy weapons etc. I wouldn't use them.

How do you use your infantry squads? Are they equipped with special AND heavy weapons, only special weapons, only heavy weapons?

Chain of command goes from top to bottom, but chain of equipment goes from bottom to top ;)

Please don't mind if my english isn't always correct, it's not my mother language, but I guess I am still making myself clear enough, eh?... ;)
Greets

RocketRollRebel
09-04-2009, 02:36 AM
My platoon command squads tend to stay naked and hang near an infantry blob shouting "first rank
fire, second rank fire". Their low BS and
Body count keeps me from investing too many points into these guys. Maybe 4 flamers or 4 grenade launchers might be neat.

You HQ command squad is where the real party is happening. Their bs4 makes them a good candidate for meltas or plasma guns and all the other fun things that they can take. Giving them a
Chimera for extra protection and to help extend the range of the commanders orders.

Hope I don't sound too cynical hahaha, that's just my take on optimising
IG command squads.

Hope it helps! Good luck with your guard. May the Emperor guide your flashlights into the eyes of your foe!

RocketRollRebel
09-04-2009, 02:41 AM
Al'Rahiem can be a fun choice for your platoon command squad. You just need to build the rest of your army around him and his platoon.

Chumbalaya
09-04-2009, 05:46 AM
Use a PCS like a SWS, only it doesn't suck.

Ataraxean
09-04-2009, 07:08 AM
I tend to go one of a couple of ways. A personal favorite of mine is to run them with a couple of flamers for when things get tight and sticky. Mine tend to be in the rear ranks of my meat shields, ready to leapfrog forward and roast whatever just finished assaulting the front rank. Orks and 'nids I'm looking at you.

Another thing that I find fun is taking that same loadout (flamers) and giving them a chimera with some sort of flamer as well (preferably on the turret in this case), and use them as 'ghetto' hellhounds. You can still give orders from in the vehicle, choose to be on foot at need, ect. Piling 4 flamer templates and one heavy flamer from a vehicle into an ork mob thats packed around a different vehicle it just finished assaulting is fun.

Personally I'd skip commissars in a PCS. Not enough warm bodies between them and near certain death from an incoming attack. They're much better in platoon squads. Also, sinking too many points into a PCS just invites extra fire that they can't handle. Though throwing a single power weapon in there will be more effective than its given credit for. Especially when assaulting remnants that have been shot up by the rest of your forces. Watching a JO carve up those last couple Sternguard is just fun.

Finally naked Platoon Command squads are not to be sneered at. I've won a number of games simply because opponents forgot that they are troops, not HQ units. Or because there were so many other higher value targets that it was never really worth shooting at them until it was far too late to peel them out of where they'd got stuck in and ordered themselves to ground. Guard on an objective with 2+ cover saves can make people cry.

Luck man.

Aldramelech
09-04-2009, 10:32 AM
My Command squads are put together like a real squad from a modern infantry force, not put together to win a game......

Platoon Commander with Power fist, Plas Pistol, Melta Bomb/Power sword, Bolt pistol, Melta bomb.
Vox Operator.
Medic.
Sniper.
Melta Gunner.

I'm not interested in 'Why not do this, take that, why have you got that' I'm interested in my squad looking and behaving in a semi believable fashion.

If you want loads of flamers, grenade launchers, melta guns and all the rest, isn't that what the special weapons squad is for?

Droofus
09-04-2009, 10:58 AM
My Command squads are put together like a real squad from a modern infantry force, not put together to win a game......

Platoon Commander with Power fist, Plas Pistol, Melta Bomb/Power sword, Bolt pistol, Melta bomb.


Yeah, I think they make you choose between "power fist boxing" or "power weapon fencing" in OTS. Also, "strapping a meltabomb to a moving tank 101" is recommended. :D

I think the equivalent to a modern infantry platoon command look something like this:

Platoon Commander with las-rifle
Vox operator
3 guardsmen with las-rifles

I figure that a PCS loaded with spec weapons basically represented the officer saying to the specialists in each squad "you all come with me, I've got a plan.!"

Xas
09-04-2009, 11:08 AM
i usually equip mine with a vox (all my squads have vox for fluff), a plasma pistol and 3 grenade launchers. then they go, skimm the battlefront and try to take shots into transports, speeders or tank's side armor with 3 s6 and 1 s7 shots.

mlambie
09-04-2009, 01:03 PM
working with the same problem myself at the moment. so far all i am sure of is that i want a vox and dont want a standard or medipac. the platoon standard doesnt seem that great to me, unless i really went and optimized them for close combat, which just seems like a bad idea in the first place and the medipac is as many points as the squad. I wouldnt bother with one heavy weapon probably. better left to the heavy squads. now as for the special weapons, this is where im stumped. do i want to keep the command squad bare bones, so they dont attract a lot of attention and can keep pumpin out orders? or would some special weapons be good, i was thinking if i went with special weapons, i would want them to have something more long ranged instead of a melta or a flamer, so they can stay back safe from assault and give orders. the sniper rifle would be cool but not being able to move and fire would be a big downside. if i am correct, the grenade launcher might be a nice in between. cheap enough to not make the squad too pointsy, 24" range moving or static, instead of the plasma, which are more costly anyway. this would leave the command squad at a cool 50 pts. i just hate the idea of tooling out a command squad for combat since they are only going to have 5 or 6 (w/commissar), and to do any damage, id have to take power fists. and theyd all die before they got to fight, most likely. i think that keeping them relatively cheap is important, seeing as in all likelihood, they could die to a single round of shooting.

thoughts?

Aldramelech
09-04-2009, 01:12 PM
Yeah, I think they make you choose between "power fist boxing" or "power weapon fencing" in OTS. Also, "strapping a meltabomb to a moving tank 101" is recommended. :D

I think the equivalent to a modern infantry platoon command look something like this:

Platoon Commander with las-rifle
Vox operator
3 guardsmen with las-rifles

I figure that a PCS loaded with spec weapons basically represented the officer saying to the specialists in each squad "you all come with me, I've got a plan.!"

In most 'Light infantry forces' the Platoon Cmd has a Sniper element attached, Radio operator, Medic specialist and light anti tank weapon. The comparison also works well with Special forces, each SAS patrol containing all of the above and a demolitions specialist. Platoon Cmds don't have a shed load of riflemen, that what the squads are for:rolleyes:

Talhydras
09-04-2009, 01:23 PM
Are you sure?

I remember from my time in the German army that officers didn't even have a rifle, they were equipped with a pistol only (only on the paper, of course^^)

@ mlambie:

Why no medic?

Of course it is important to keep them cheap, they are no MEQs. Anyway, I think that a heavy weapons team and a medic are never a bad choice. A fist-officer, 2 special weapons and a medic neither.
Of course they die very easily, but if they don't you still got something up your sleeve... or in your fist, strictly speaking ;)

Droofus
09-04-2009, 01:56 PM
In most 'Light infantry forces' the Platoon Cmd has a Sniper element attached, Radio operator, Medic specialist and light anti tank weapon. The comparison also works well with Special forces, each SAS patrol containing all of the above and a demolitions specialist.

Well, I get the impression that special forces get whatever the heck they need for their mission, so they'd probably be more comparable to a stormtrooper or veteran squad. So I guess if your guardsmen are based more around a special-forces group in modern times, then you probably shouldn't be taking infantry platoons in the first place.

TBH, the regular guard organization is so far away from anything we use today that it's pretty sad (see below).


Platoon Cmds don't have a shed load of riflemen, that what the squads are for:rolleyes:

Actually in many modern rifle companies, the ratio of "riflemen" in rifle squads to other weapons (such as automatic rifles and grenade launchers) is often around 1 to 1. Which actually makes sense if you think about it, platoon commands are there for command, and the rifle squads are actually there to kill the enemy.

mlambie
09-04-2009, 02:06 PM
Are you sure?

I remember from my time in the German army that officers didn't even have a rifle, they were equipped with a pistol only (only on the paper, of course^^)

@ mlambie:

Why no medic?

Of course it is important to keep them cheap, they are no MEQs. Anyway, I think that a heavy weapons team and a medic are never a bad choice. A fist-officer, 2 special weapons and a medic neither.
Of course they die very easily, but if they don't you still got something up your sleeve... or in your fist, strictly speaking ;)

a 30 point upgrade for a 30 pt squad is just a tough sell for me. especially for t3, bs 3, carapace soldiers. i suppose it could be worth it form the point of view of keeping that officer alive long enough to get those extra orders out, especially if they're in cover. i will have to try it both ways. but for the points of tricking out a command squad, i could almost have another 10 guardsmen, (ie a standard and a medic @45pts)

quantity vs. quality...its a tough call. id rather spend pts upgrading a unit like veterans, or as mentioned above, the HQ command squad.

i picked the army up when the new dex came out and just now got around to building em up, so for me its all theoretical at this point.

Aldramelech
09-04-2009, 02:09 PM
I do have some small experience in this field my friend.

Actually in many modern rifle companies, the ratio of "riflemen" in rifle squads to other weapons (such as automatic rifles and grenade launchers) is often around 1 to 1. Which actually makes sense if you think about it, platoon commands are there for command, and the rifle squads are actually there to kill the enemy.

Isn't that what I said?

TBH, the regular guard organization is so far away from anything we use today that it's pretty sad (see below).

I disagree, I think that IG organization is very comparable to todays forces.

Droofus
09-04-2009, 02:25 PM
I do have some small experience in this field my friend.

Actually in many modern rifle companies, the ratio of "riflemen" in rifle squads to other weapons (such as automatic rifles and grenade launchers) is often around 1 to 1. Which actually makes sense if you think about it, platoon commands are there for command, and the rifle squads are actually there to kill the enemy.

Isn't that what I said?


It's what you said, but having a sniper, a AT specialist and a fellow carrying a sword and bombs on his person in your PCS certainly suggests that you think the role of a platoon command to be for something else other than command. I just took issue with your characterization of everyone else being "unrealistic" given your own choice of PCS.



TBH, the regular guard organization is so far away from anything we use today that it's pretty sad (see below).

I disagree, I think that IG organization is very comparable to todays forces.

Forgive me, I meant equipment breakdown (obviously taking into account basic equivalency). For example, an infantry squad have a sergeant 2 grenade launchers 2 heavy stubbers and 3 lasrifles.

Obviously the overall organization is the similar. Again, I apologize.

RocketRollRebel
09-04-2009, 02:31 PM
working with the same problem myself at the moment. so far all i am sure of is that i want a vox and dont want a standard or medipac. the platoon standard doesnt seem that great to me, unless i really went and optimized them for close combat, which just seems like a bad idea in the first place and the medipac is as many points as the squad. I wouldnt bother with one heavy weapon probably. better left to the heavy squads. now as for the special weapons, this is where im stumped. do i want to keep the command squad bare bones, so they dont attract a lot of attention and can keep pumpin out orders? or would some special weapons be good, i was thinking if i went with special weapons, i would want them to have something more long ranged instead of a melta or a flamer, so they can stay back safe from assault and give orders. the sniper rifle would be cool but not being able to move and fire would be a big downside. if i am correct, the grenade launcher might be a nice in between. cheap enough to not make the squad too pointsy, 24" range moving or static, instead of the plasma, which are more costly anyway. this would leave the command squad at a cool 50 pts. i just hate the idea of tooling out a command squad for combat since they are only going to have 5 or 6 (w/commissar), and to do any damage, id have to take power fists. and theyd all die before they got to fight, most likely. i think that keeping them relatively cheap is important, seeing as in all likelihood, they could die to a single round of shooting.

thoughts?

if you want to give them any sort of long range firepower i'd say grenade launchers are you best bet. They are nice and cheap in this edition and 4 for 20pts isnt a bad deal. But even then I rarely give them any weapons unless I have some points left over to burn. I avoid giving plasma guns to anyone unless they have a BS of 4. They are just to expensive these days to be trusted in the hands of humble "Joe Guardsmen".

relasine
09-04-2009, 04:31 PM
I fully understand people wanting to avoid the "silliness" of having a command squad stocked full of flamethrowers, wanting to instead embrace a realistic approach of having mixed weapons, but it's also important to remember that in real life, people can shoot at whatever's best for them. Just because a guy with a tread fether is a taking a shot at a tank doesn't mean the guy with the flame thrower will be doing the same. 40k doesn't grant us that freedom. Everyone in a squad shoots the same target. If we could individually activate and fire models at different targets, I'd be right on board the idea of a command squad with different weapons, but we don't, so I'd rather have a squad that works.

Talhydras
09-05-2009, 01:02 AM
a 30 point upgrade for a 30 pt squad is just a tough sell for me. especially for t3, bs 3, carapace soldiers. i suppose it could be worth it form the point of view of keeping that officer alive long enough to get those extra orders out, especially if they're in cover. i will have to try it both ways. but for the points of tricking out a command squad, i could almost have another 10 guardsmen, (ie a standard and a medic @45pts)

quantity vs. quality...its a tough call. id rather spend pts upgrading a unit like veterans, or as mentioned above, the HQ command squad.

i picked the army up when the new dex came out and just now got around to building em up, so for me its all theoretical at this point.

All I can say is that "Feel no pain" may grant your officer one or two more orders, which can be quite essential for the new IG. That's what I experienced through the games I've been playing with the new dex. Of course, 30pts isn't cheap, but I think it's worth it. Just my two cents.

Aldramelech
09-05-2009, 01:15 AM
Agreed, you need those orders, without them your in a world of hurt.

Talhydras
09-05-2009, 03:21 AM
Agreed, you need those orders, without them your in a world of hurt.

"Hey lieutenant, if your CO knew that you don't give any more orders just because you decided to die here, you're in a world of ****!"
"I *am*... in a world... of ****!"

Just came to my mind... ;)