Which army should I choose?

[Bibbums]

I love the menacing and ominous feel of the warriors of chaos. I also like dinosaurs so lizardmen are tempting. However I also like the look of skaven, their crazyness is awesome. Could you people please give a summary of these armies or of your own, my mind is open.

[Chronowraith]

Warriors of Chaos rely on flat out being better in close combat than other armies. Marauders provide a bulk fighting force for cheap and still are better tan your average human. Warriors are the solid mailed fist of the force and stand head and shoulders above even most of the elites in other armies. WoC lacks ranged attacks and warmachines possessing only a few units with access to any range whatsoever like the Doom Cannon and Marauder Horsemen with their throwing axes and spears (hardly ranged). They are a slow and cumbersome force that will rip the enemies face off once they reach them. They have fantastic magic support though with some great lores and casters who can actually defend themselves in close combat to a certain extent.

Skaven rely on a horde of poorly equipped and trained bodies to do their work. They send their slave units ahead to lock down enemies in combat while pummeling them from range or flanking them with more powerful units such as rat ogres, hellpit abominations, and doomwheels. They are the least courageous bunch in the entire world and the leaders often scurry to hide deeper in units to avoid fighting. In addition, their courage only lasts while they possess the advantage of numbers as their leadership drops with the fewer ratmen they have. They also possess good magical support with two great lores and super-cheap casters (and characters in general). The many machines of clan Skyre offer generals some interesting avenues that often end with surprising and colorful results (good or bad).

Lizardmen are a very diverse army. They are slow in combat and on the move but are ferocious opponents almost on par with Chaos Warriors. They have some warmachine-like units such as salamanders and the razorspine lizards that shoot at enemies from afar and they have some really big and ferocious monsters like the stegadon and carnosaur. They have arguably the best generic mages in the game with the Slann Mage Priests and access to standard book lores.

All three armies are solid choices. I play Skaven primarily but have a Warriors of Chaos army on the shelf and I play against Lizards all the time. Really it's all up to what you want...

Chaos - Small but powerful melee centered army
Skaven - Huge horde of ratmen that locks down enemy units and then uses sneaky tricks to win
Lizards - Balance of good melee infantry with poisonous ranged infantry and monsters.

[Lord Sandwich]

Warriors of Chaos - very much the tactician's army, in much the same way that loaded pistols are very much useful for brushing one's teeth. Warriors really do 2 things - punch and cast spells. It must be said however that they do these two things very, very well. An army of Chaos marching to the battlefield is a solid wall of iron and their soldiers can basically outfight anything. A single Chaos warrior has the offensive power of some of the weaker heroes in the game. An army solely made out of Chaos Warriors is by nature very small in numbers, however you can easily offset this with Chaos Marauders - evil death Vikings. While the Marauders on an individual basis may look like golf carts when compared to the Panzer company that is a unit of Chaos Warriors, each Marauder is much cheaper and is in my opinion one of the most points-efficient infantry units in the game when kitted out properly. The Chaos wizards, particularly those of Tzeentch, are also quite nasty, with spells that can do everything from messing with your opponent's command structure to blasting a unit right off the table with a single spell! Chaos can even shoot alright these days, with the daemonic Hellcannon spitting templatey death across the table and hopefully not eating your guys in the process.Altogether the Warriors are one of the more powerful armies out there right now. Though they might not be subtle,

Dinosaurs you say? Well, the Lizardmen have what you need - and more.The Lizardmen, interestingly enough, are one of the more well-rounded armies out there - they can do everything and do it pretty darn well. Monsters? We have your stampede of Stegadons just around the corner, sir. Fast and tricksy? Just come down to Uncle Joe's Skink Store - we have skirmishers and spitting poison death galore! Legions of heavy infantry more your thing? That's not a problem either - ask our manager about our Saurus Warriors. Oh, but what's that? You're more into magic? Well I have two and a half words for you my friend: Slann Mage-Priest. The Lizzies can do just about anything you set your mind to. One word of warning - like the Warriors, they are a little small in number. And they are slow. I believe a sloth covered in molasses wearing lead shoes wielding a great weapon swinging in the other direction would have a decent chance of hitting a Saurus warrior before the Saurus gets to strike. But besides that, Lizzies are a powerful contender.

Skaven. It's appropriate that these little titchies are Ratmen, because wherever they walk, the call of cheese seems to follow. And it's understandable why. Numerous, dirt cheap infantry, dangerous (to both sides!) warmachines, some of the scariest gribblies in the game, cheap and (fairly) reliable magic lores, and a solid amount of variety? What's not to love? Skaven have enough warm bodies that they can just drown their opponents in them. However, the Ratmen themselves are also some of the silliest excuses for fighters in the game. Not only could one not fight his way out of a wet paper bag, but that wet paper bag would probably take him on, eat him, burn his family, stomp on their ashes, and waltz off into the sunset. But what do they matter? They're simple Rat-things. You're a noble and powerful rat Warlord / Grey Seer! What could possibly happen to you? No one would ever contemplate stabbing YOU in the back, right? The Skaven put out an extremely fierce muster, and are regarded by some people to be somewhere close to the most powerful army. A few recent FAQs have brought them a peg down, but they're still duking it out with the bosses.

And finally my one suggestion. If you like the crazyness of the Skaven, just wait until you see these green fellas! No, I'm not talking about Kermit! These are the Orcs and Goblins! First things first: when you take an Orc and Goblin army, something will go wrong. It just happens. Maybe Nibbla da Shaman munches one too many mushrooms and his brains pop out of his ears in a slimy green paste. Maybe those Snotlings pumping that wagon on your left flank get tired and pump slower on one side than the other, and they careen into your Black Orcs nearby! Will your own Fanatics get dizzy and smash through your Boar Boyz? Absolutely! But despite this, the Orcs and Goblins put down a large number of threats on the table, and even when you're doing large amounts of collateral damage to yourself, your foes are usually getting krumped even 'arder! The Orcs and Goblins aren't quite up there in terms of power with the three armies mentioned previously, but they have a megaton of variety in their army list - you can field anything you can think of and it'll put up a fight. Want sneaky? Might I introduce you to the 22 different Goblin units in the book? No? Need something more punchy? Well how about the 24 different Oc units? And need a bit more flash and style? Then there are 8 other units, ranging from the wee Snotlings who stand around and are generally abused for the sport of the Goblins, to Trolls who amble about before vomiting violently on their foes, to the mighty Arachnarok spider which towers above even the largest of enemy monsters! It's a green life in the Orcs and Goblins, and dere's krumpin' to be dun fer Gork an' Mork!

I don't feel like I've given justice to any of these armies, however. Don't just take my advice - do what you want to do. And hey, with Storm of Magic, you can play one of these armies and throw in some monsters from the others! A little flavor to add to your growing horde!

EDIT: Or, you know, just read Chronowraith's post.

[Bibbums]

the lack of history in an army infuriates me. the arnies i like the look of now are lizardmen, tomkings and brentonnia. however the first 2 hav poorly detailed core models and brrntonnia, well they lack a lot. how long should i expect 2 wait whilst i use 40k nids and guard?

[Bigthunda]

Glory to Chaos!!

[helvexis]

lizards ... how can you say no to a basic troop who has 2 attacks essentially because they bite you after hitting you with their sword ... but seriously do what you want im just starting a lizardmen army but i did look at dark elves, dwarves, and woodelves for a good while

[Kaiserdean]

There are a lot of good choices... Lizards and Skaven are fairly well rounded armies that are flexible and wouldn't get boring. If I were going to build another list, Lizards are on the short list... Dinosaurs rampaging, skinks shooting poison and giant frogs casting magic are very attractive. Plus, they would be a ton of fun to paint.

[papa smurf]

I agree with your statement about having a lack of history for armies. Also, when you say you like the look of lizardmen, Tomb kings and Bretonnia, does that mean WoC and Skaven are out now?

Well, if not then I'd say backstory/history wise a chaos army can have really epic characters, whether using the named ones or creating your own backstory.
In relation to the Lizardmen, Tomb Kings and Bretonnia (If those are the choices you've narrowed it down to) I would say the Lizardmen As a race has history, what with them being the enforcers of the old ones, the creation of the world and whatnot, but as characters I find them lacking. Every Saurus warrior has basically the same motive, which is fight until you die. If you're after character, I'd say go after something like Bretonnia, where each unit can kind of have its own cool back story or history to go along with it!

Hope my 2 cents helped :)

[Stepfan]

Well I ran a Growth League Starter Tournament for Fantasy a few months back(the only codex changes were Ogres and VC and their style seems not to have changed much). So here is the write up I did then.

Wall of text incoming...
Notes: All armies can play offensively and defensively but some armies excell at on or the other. As for the difference, Offensive is close combat and speed with manuverability to get into advantageous positions, seizing ground as it were. Defensive is hanging back and castling usually relying on high armour or toughness with shooting and magic to force the enemy to give up positions to you.

Beastmen:
Overall: A good army, but tricky to learn and use. Rely on Primal Fury rerolls and sychning characters and magic together to make their units killy, a horde army they use numbers to make up for lack of armour, however they have high movement and can get to where they want.
Offensive: Very much a punchy army, uses magic and characters to support their troops, all of whom are undercosted. Have great access to rerolls.
Defensive: Can boost magical potential, but at their heart they lack the components to be defensive, no real shooting or highly armoured infantry. Always the aggressor.

Brettonia:
Overall: A somewhat harder army to use, rely on getting the charge off with powerful units of knights, magic is once again a boosting force.
Offensive: God like offense, brettonians are the ones to look at for offensive punch, they have an earth shattering charge, and properlly suported by some of the more defensive elements can actually break units in 8th with cavalry charges(a truly magnificent feat).
Defense: Actually not bad, but nothing to work an army on, just enough to make the offense work. Cheap ranked peasents to hold units in place. Bowmen and Trebuchets to weaken units before the charge. Defense support offense instead of standing on it's own.

Daemons of Chaos:
Overall: Lots of variety, very powerful, if expensive core units. A close combat fore to be reckoned with. Ignore half the fantasy rules and have a lot of staying power if they want to. Use the loci(prescene of a herald in the unit grants a new special rule)
Offensive: Demons real strength comes in their hitting power, including magical fire power, Bloodletters, Daemonettes, and Pink Horrors are all incredibly punchy and even nurgle is killy enough. A rather straight forward force to use.
Defensive: Not a real demon strength in 8th, nurgle is still hard to kill, but no longer unkillable, still with an abundance of ward saves, magical fire, and fear demons can take a defensive posture, it is just not their speciality.

Dark Elves:
Overall: They're elves, so fast, hard hitting, and fragile. Dark Elves rely on rerolls and number more then the other elves. Have the ability to pump out tons of shots, but prefer close combat.
Offensive: Dark Elves love offensive, they like the +1 combat res on the charge, but almost all dark elves are capable of sheer murder. They prefer offensive styles as when in close combat you're not being shot at. Elves don't like getting shot at. Regardless they excel at close combat.
Defensive: Capable of defense with dodgeing and number of shots, but without any real source of heavy armour, dark elves do not excel at defense. They can use cheap spearmen to back up a more defensive force, but still they do not play a defensive game as well as an offensive.

Dwarves:
Overall: Well we've had offensive armies, now we get possibly the king of defense. A dwarf loves to hang back and belt you with shot, then charge you into CC. Heck they'll even advance forward as they are rock solid in close combat, but they do suffer one weakness. Dwarves are slow, they don't move and they don't go first in close combat.
Offensive: Dwarves are all right at offensive, but really need to be backed up by their defensive elements. While they are not as easily avoided in 8th a cleve opponent can steer your dwarves into a trap.
Defensive: This is where dwarves shine, breaking apart enemy ranks with shots and war machines, then stopping their magic going off, dwarves shine on the defense. They still require offensive elements but they are the hammer to your ranged anvil.

High Elves:
Overall: Again we have elves, so fast, but high elves are even faster. They always strike first regardless of weapon allotment. So yeah High Elves are content zooming around and making you come at them. High Elves excell magically as well, being either the best or second best casters in the Warhammer world.
Offensive: High Elves fall in this category by technicallity. They win in close combat. However with their use of positioning and being entirely willing to be charged, they will always have a tendency towards defense.
Defensive: This is more the high elven catagory, they prefer using their elven speed and mobility to force others in less advantageous positions rather then seizing good ones themselves. Their personal lore of magic is also more defensivley oriented then offensive, but they are very capable of using offensive magic, having access to all eight lores(making high elves have the most varied magic with acess to 9 lores).

Lizardmen:
Overall: Masters of everything the lizardmen can do, everything almost perfectly; if you know what you're doing. The lizardmen represent a group of diverse races who are each the best at what they weere designed to do, but they fail at everything else: Slann- Expert Mages, awful at close combat, Saurus- Great close combat machines, but slow. Skinks- fast as all heck, but fragile as well. Can do close combat but are also the shooting(which is great but short ranged), Kroxigor- Strong and very good at close combat, but rather low ld and intiative. Lizards are an army of tradeoffs, but tend to have rather good ld, as they use cold blooded rule(roll 3D6 and take the lowest two).
Offensive/Defensive(keeping this format as this is taking far to long): Personally I would rule they're more defensive then offensive as they're army list is set up that way, but my knowledge is rather limited.Lots of skink diverters supported by a slaan(oldbloods don't work at higher points) and a saurus block or two lizardmen's menagaerie of beasts place them in a soldly strong position.

Ogre Kingdoms:
Overall: Fast, big, and brutal Ogres are offense all the way. Though they suffer a little from Intiative and the Skill traits ogres are big and mean. They're expensive price is offset by the abundance of gnoblar, small goblinoids who are rather good at what they do(throwing rocks then dying), but they're cheap and will not panic your army at all.
Offensive/Defensive: Ogres have some more defensive options, but their entire army is set out to crush the foe in close combat and on the charge too as ogres tend not to have enough staying power to keep it up, each dead ogre means more then a dead man or elf. So get in there and hit em hard!

Orcs and Golbins:
Overall: They're offensive and a horde army. I can't really get into this one as even aside from the new book they're are so many elements options here that I don't even know where to start. Let's just say I've sat down with five other fantasy guys and all of us came up with different lists entirely.
Offensive/Defensive: Offensive with some warmachine support.

Skaven
Overall: A horde army to crown horde armies, skaven rumble forward with lackluster troops and fiendish diabolic machines, called the dark Empire it makes sense, they are basically an evil counterpart to the much seen human Empire. They both use lackluster troops in numbers to support warmachines and powerful "devices".
Offensive/Defensive: Skaven are more of a defensive army, but can certenly play an offesnvie game. Either you put out hordes of more elite rats and stabbing "toys" such as the terrifying Hellpit abomination, or using the masses of skaven slaves to get into close combat and then unleasing the full fury of the skaven genius and ingeniuty bu firing with your warmachines and guns into that close combat.

The Empire
Overall: The Empire is a defensive army with rather lackluster main troops. They however can combo to power with magic and warrior priests prayers. Combine this with their engineering such as the Hellblaster Volley Gun and the might Steam Tank and you have an effective army.
Offensive/Defensive: Empire with their usual reliance on guns and cannons are a defensive force. They throw their infantry into the way of threats to the guns and rely on the guns weakening the foe to the point that even their infantry can perform the mop up goal and eliminate enemy forces, who are usually rather superior.

Tomb Kings
Overall: A horde army relying on numbers and magic, I think. Sadly with the new book coming out and having only played a few games against it I can not make a good judgement here.
Offensive/Defensive: Probably more defensive, from what I've seen they seem to lack a real punch unit. I must admit confusion there.

Vampire Counts
Overall: A horde army which relies on numbers to swamp the enemy. Have some rather punchy troops and could care less for armour as they will tend to magic the dead back into close combat. They can even increase numbers above their starting strength.
Offensive/Defensive: Vampires hold a defensive position with numbers of skeletons as opposed to ghouls, but they really want to go out and rip throats. A vampire itself is a terrifying proposition and can be hard to take out.

A note about undead, killing a tomb king heirophant or a vampire general will cause the army to start to fall apart.

Warriors of Chaos
Overall: A wall of iron and steel excelling at close combat yet they also possess a fascinating defensive ability. I would say their expensive, and they are, but they also have a rather good cheap unit in Maruaders. Really WoC are a reliable army with good abilities at everything.
Offensive/Defensive: They probably prefer offensive, but with a movement of only 4 as base they posses magic and the Hellcannon to force others to engage them so they represent an interesting amalgamation of the two concepts.

Wood Elves:
Overall: Perhaps the worst army of 8th, especially with the new Tomb King book coming out soon. They're elves who specialise in neither offense nor defense but instead they're guerilla fighters who live for movement. They want to use shooting to drag you out so they can hit you in CC with a truck. Relying on dice rolls a lot they can not take a hit at all. Ever. They're base 12pts(WE Archer/Dryad/Eternal Guard-12, DE Spear w/sheild-7, HE Spear w/sheild- 9). Really the things they want to do just don't work that well in 8th and it's a struggle at times to pull of a win. They are however an army wiht terrific shooting. And that's their only real claim to fame.
Offensive/Defensive: Neither, see above.

[setto]

i think mostly it depends on how much money you want to spend on your army overall, if you want to keep it cheap chaos is the way to go, because the models are very points intensive. if you dont mind spending butt tons of money then skaven, you will need tons of models for this too which is another thing, if you dont want to paint too much i would go with chaos. lizardmen can be expensive too but not quite as expensive as the skaven.

[Chronowraith]

Tomb Kings
Overall: A horde army relying on numbers and magic, I think. Sadly with the new book coming out and having only played a few games against it I can not make a good judgement here.
Offensive/Defensive: Probably more defensive, from what I've seen they seem to lack a real punch unit. I must admit confusion there.

Tomb Kings do not have to be a horde. They have one of the best "Monster" lists in the current line of books. In fact, most of the Tomb Kings lists that perform really well have shockingly few models on the board.

As for lacking "real punch" units... they have Tomb Guard, War Sphinx, Chariots, and Necropolis Knights. Tom Guard are fantastic, relatively cheap, good stats (for undead), and killing blow. War Sphinx with breath weapon can kill an absurd amount of models in a single phase (I think it's somewhere around 32-36 models in the phase it breaths if everything hits and wounds). Necropolis Knights offer up a load of attacks as well.

Tomb Kings are either an agility force or a horde force. Horde force plays more traditionally but can be a bear to win with without the right build. Agility Force revolves around putting your power blocks where they need to be when you need them. They DO rely on magic more heavily than most other armies.

[Stepfan]

Thanks for the fix. That was indeed written at the very start of the new TK book so was mostly based on the old one. Indeed that and the Ogre book might not have been out quite yet...

So no War Sphinx, no Necropolis Knights, Chariot units with lower strength and fewer impact hits, and no halberd weilding Tomb Kings.

Yours is a better description as of now. And I did admit my lack of knowledge straight out.

[mmosheep]

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