WIP - Salamander's Codex

[wittdooley]

So I'm working on a full-fledge, fluff-written, Salamanders codex. The fluff is less of an issue for me, but I'm having some issues with the rules. I ran my Tu'Shan by a buddy, and fixed him accordingly after being told "that dude is a freaking immoratal. You need to nerf him." So here's his edited rules:

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6063/6082713865_2e413d309e.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/60733910@N07/6082713865/)
Tu Shan (http://www.flickr.com/photos/60733910@N07/6082713865/) by wittdooley (http://www.flickr.com/people/60733910@N07/), on Flickr

His point cost, which is not listed there, is presently at 255. I'm trying to keep with the fluff (super rugged Drakescale cloak, bigger than most Astartes).

I need some thoughts.

As you can see there also, an army wide rule is going to be Brand of the Fireborn to represent their ritual branding. I need some ideas on what the rule should actually do. Thanks in advance for your advice/help.

[joescalise]

I think that all the first legions should get there own codex. But this guy is cool, I like the strike at Int, because of his size and strength. I think you should change the -1str for flamers and melta to just flamers.

[Grailkeeper]

Remeber they come from a high gravity world- very few landspeeders etc.

[wittdooley]

I can do that, for sure. I Originally had Tu'Shan at T5 with no eternal warrior, and the -1 to Melta was in there so that he wouldn't suffer instadeath to a melta weapon if he failed his invuln. Now that he has eternal warrior, it's a bit superfulous.

[wittdooley]

Remeber they come from a high gravity world- very few landspeeders etc.

Oh yes :)

I'm still tweaking things, but I'm thinking a 0-1 limit on their Fast Attack options.

Here's what I have in line:

Characters:
Tu Shan
Da'Kir (with really unstable, but powerful, psychic abilities)
Elysius (with a rule similar to Bjorn, in that because of Vulkan's Sigil he becomes an objective if he dies)
Argos (probably some kind of artificer melta gun, not sure yet)

Units:
Firedrakes

Limitations to:
Fast Attack

Special Rules:
Brand of the Fireborn - Not sure what to do with this yet.
Need to incorporate Slow & Purposeful USR somehow.

There will be full fluff written as well; I'll start posting bitz on here as I write it to gauge it.

[Grailkeeper]

In the old GW intex astartes they all had -1 int. Chaplains also had the option to replace a crosius arcanum with a thunderhammer for free. Artificer armour, melta resistant tank armour, and thunderhammers for tactical squads also featured but I'm less clear on that. You cold maybe also include the special characters from the forgeworld sallys- Braearth Ashmantle is a dread (not sure about the spelling of the first name) and they may have a few others.

I agree about it being superflous for the melta- maybe count it as minus one strength to flame weapons and they never take a leadership test for wounds caused by fire?

[wittdooley]

I think the -1 ini is far too punishing in the world of 5ed to be viable. Further, in all the newer fluff they don't seem any slower than, say, the iron hands or ultras. I think slow and purposeful may be the way to go. I'll keep it updated

[Lord Inquisitor]

I'd say 275. Compared to Marneus, Mephiston, and Abaddon I'd say he is better than all of them except for maybe Abaddon he might be equal to. And since this is a custom codex it is best to err on the side of overpricing than underpricing. Actually, he should cost more than 275 due to the fact it is a strength 10 hammer at initiative, I'd say probably 300. You may even have to take out the striking at initiative, because he is pretty ridiculous right now. 2+/3+ and initiative 5 strength 10, that is quite the thing. And it is master crafted.

Also you should just remove into the fires of battle due to the fact it wont do anything unless he is by himself as you roll to wound against the majority of the squad. If you want him at 275 I'd remove striking at initiative because he is just a monster right now, best thing in the game. 3+ invulnerable is extremely tough, strength 10 is extremely tough, striking at initiative is extremely tough, eternal warrior is extremely tough, and 4 wounds is extremely tough. There is no other thing in regular 40k that is as good as him. And a freaking infernus pistol! He needs to be nerfed or made ridiculously expensive as he is exponentially ridiculous.

[Denzark]

Think you should get a mod to move to the hombrew rules section...

[Dooley]

Here is a thought: Make mark of the Fire Brand an upgrade for Veterans (ie Terminators and any Sternguard/Vanguard type esque units) This could represent the units being part of the cult of Promethius. I was thinking the MoFB could drop the Strength of Melta and Flamer attacks by half seeing as how part of the initiation rights of the Cult are to walk through a tunnel of fire pretty much naked!

As far as the Idea of Salamanders being at -1 Int due to the "HEAVY GRAVITY" of Nocturne I alwasys thought that was silly. Wouldnt they be FASTER because they are used to functioning in a state of Higher Gravity?

Keep up the good work, and I also think it would be great if the Sallies got their own OFFICIAL book (and not that sillyness in the old Armagedon book)

[wittdooley]

@Dooley - I really like that idea. Make it like Mark of the Wulfen. I still have to figure out some kind of Army special rule akin to how SW get counterattack and Blood Angels get Descent of Angels. I think the way to go is with slow and purposeful somehow, but I have to figure out what that method is.

Anyways, here's some new updates, this time for Dak'ir, the Veteran-turned-librarian features in the Tome of Fire trilogy. For those that haven't read, he's supposed to be an extremely powerful (more powerful than Val'cona, the Sallies head librarian) but HIGHLY unstable psyker. I tried to write the rules to reflect that.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6190/6092799793_7447e09dd5.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/60733910@N07/6092799793/)
Dakir (http://www.flickr.com/photos/60733910@N07/6092799793/) by wittdooley (http://www.flickr.com/people/60733910@N07/), on Flickr

A fair amount of randomness with him, but again, this Dex is for fun.

[wittdooley]

So here's an update on the Salamanders Psychic Powers:

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6182/6093078943_a02ff09765.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/60733910@N07/6093078943/)
Psychic Powers (http://www.flickr.com/photos/60733910@N07/6093078943/) by wittdooley (http://www.flickr.com/people/60733910@N07/), on Flickr

I think the powers are, for the most part balanced. I think I need to nerf the Breath power down to AP 3 (as much as I want to make it a Terminator killer)

[Dooley]

A couple more ideas from the "GOOD IDEA" Fairy:
Instead of coming up with UNIVERSAL SPECIAL Rules just come up with some new Stuff ie:

Master Artificers: Since ALL Salamanders take meticulous care of their Arms and Armor allow squads to upgrade either their bolters to MASTER CRAFTED STATUS or upgrade their Armor to Artificer Armor Status (really mess up the wounds allocation game with random 2+ armor saves running around!)

Hatred of Dark Eldar: Going off of recent fluff All Salamanders have prefered Enemy Dark Eldar!

Also go back to giving them the option to outfit their vehicles with the ceramite plating (no 2d6 armor Penetration from melta weapons)

Damn it now I REALLY want an official Salamanders Codex. But Im sure if it did happen it would become the Flavor of the week and I would get pissy at all the bandwagon Sally players :P

[wittdooley]

I love all of these ideas. They shall be incorporated.

What do you think of Da'kir/ Libby powers. I struggled a lot with them. My buddy thinks that Da'kir is too random, but I really think I was able to represent the fluff pretty well there. Of course, all of this will require testing, etc, so it is what it is.

[Dooley]

Yeah Im not so sure on D'Kir (SP?) He has a ld 8 (wich I get, he is not really a full up Librarian as such) but rolling 3D6 and hoping for no doubles?? Thats like a 50% chance he will end up rolling on the new 40K miscast table! (Im not a math Major so the 50% may not be accurate) I would try and think of something a little less Fantasy on that one (no one likes Tables) Perhaps a "ITS FOR YOUR OWN GOOD" kinda tweak?

I get the whole "HE COULD BE THE SAVIOR OR THE DOOM OF THE CHAPTER" vibe on that one! But I think he could be a little MORE SAVIOR OR DOOM!

An idea for a rule could be:
"At the end of the game as long as he is alive make a pyscic test. If the Test is passed D'kir has discovered an Ancient relic valuable to the Salamanders and counts as holding 2 Objectives, regardless of other enemy models (in objective based games) If the Test is faild, D'Kir has let his mental accumen slip and has unleashed the full furry of the warp! D'Kir and any squad he has joined are removed from the board counting as destroyed and awarding DOUBLE Victory/Kill points."

Pyscic Tuetalage: Remembering his teachings D'Kir is allowed to re-roll 1 of the Dice (or maybe all 3) of a psycic test ONCE per game.

As far as the Psycic powers are concerned they are pretty much standard Powers which isnt so bad. This is kinda fun! Im glad you appritiate my ideas and I think it is weird that two guys named Dooley have the same interest in this.

[gcsmith]

I think mark of the fire brand should be something that makes them +1 toughness which isnt used for instant death, Taking less damage from a melta just cus u dnt get burnt doesnt make sence since a melta gun doesnt burn, it disintergrates.

[Archon Charybdis]

I'm a bit leery of Tu'Shan's melee capability. Striking at I5 with a S10 power weapon and four attacks base is rather overboard, especially when the character is so durable (2+/3++, 4 wounds, and EW). If you dropped the striking at Initiative, and reduced his points I think it would be a more balanced approach.

Slow and Purposeful as an army wide special rule is probably way more beneficial than it is a hindrance. The ability to jump out of a moving Rhino or Drop Pod and fire your heavy weapons is a pretty big boost, and Bolters can fire out at 24'' while on the move now.

I do like Dak'ir, the rules seem flavorful and interesting. I might tweak the psychic instability chart to be a bit more forgiving. A 2d6 range and S8 hit are probably a bit punitive. I'd personally make it a large blast centered over him, and reduce the S so it's not a instagib against T4. Also, you might change a roll of 6 to let him automatically cast any other power instead of the same one twice--almost half the list would serve no purpose to cast twice.

The psychic powers all seem fairly interesting, I'd bump up The Burning and Wreath of Flames abit though. The Burning I'd make a S5 hit (still requiring a to wound roll) but allow the Librarian to still make his attacks. Wreath of Flames I'd also say cause an assaulting unit to take dangerous terrain tests--Defensive Grenades are handy but not crazy, and it's too situational of an ability without a little something extra.

[wittdooley]

Tu'Shan has been the biggest point of contention for me and my buddy that's offering some temperance to the rule writing. I think I'd rather lower him to 3 attacks (which is so low for a chapter master) than change the striking at I w/ his hammer. One of the biggest fluff points for him is that he's enormous (almost primarch sized) so I thought striking at Initiative with the thunder hammer was a good way to show this. I could dump the strikes at I and give him 5 wounds, and simply make him a truck. I don't thing his melee prowess should be the best in the imperium; clearly he shouldn't be. But he was impressive enough as a new master to make Dante stop and pause, so that's something.

The biggest issue is that there is so very little written about the Salamanders. I can only glean so much from Tome of Fire trilogy.

I agree that slow and purposeful isn't really a hindrance. It just seemed like an appropriate rule to fit their fluff, though I think some of Dooley's suggest may fit just as well.

Agreed on Dak'ir. I actually thought I changed the 2D6. I think the large template is probably appropriate, and I agree with lowering to S7.

I'm presently designing Praetor as a Firedrakes add on; I'm having trouble not making him too much like Arjac from the SW dex. If anyone has any suggestions there, please lemme know.

Also, I'm having trouble finding the names of the 7 Sanctuary Cities. If anyone can help me out with these, I'd appreciate it. I'll have some more updates tomorrow, most likely.

[wolflold]

Tu'Shan is way to powerfull! If you want to field him that way i say he should be atleast 350+ pts.

i would do it like this:

- change S5 to S4, 4A to 3A
- give him a meltagun (would look cooler on terminator armour and makes more sense :D)
- lose 'into the fires of battle'
- unto the anvil of war: Tu'shan my forgo his attacks and make 1 attack instead. Place a small blast marker in contact with him, all models under the blast marker get a str8 hit and count as ini1 next combat phase.
- nocturne's shroud: gives 3++ save and boosts toughness to 5 (and is counted as his own toughness).
- brand of the fireborne: any unit he is with get the relentless special rule.
- and that for 275 pts

[wittdooley]

I like the ideas, but is boosting his T to 5 really more balanced than his Str being at 5?

I'm beginning to hate this character :p

[wittdooley]

Here's the special rules page for my custom dex. Brand of the Fireborn does what I want, I think, but my verbiage seems a bit convoluted for now. The PE: Dark Eldar completely fits with the fluff, if you're unfamiliar. Suggestions welcome.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6061/6101159682_0d1213d26f.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/60733910@N07/6101159682/)
Salamanders Codex - Special Rules Page (http://www.flickr.com/photos/60733910@N07/6101159682/) by wittdooley (http://www.flickr.com/people/60733910@N07/), on Flickr

[wittdooley]

So here's the first page of fluff that I wrote. A piece here and there was pilfered from the 40k wiki, but because there is so dreadfully little written about the Salamanders, most of this is original work. The Sanctuary Cities after Hesiod are named after either Ancient Greek Sanctuary Cities or Moari words for welcoming. As always, suggestions, comments, etc, are welcome! Enjoy!

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6068/6102996915_213e30f155.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/60733910@N07/6102996915/)
Salamanders Fluff Page 1 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/60733910@N07/6102996915/) by wittdooley (http://www.flickr.com/people/60733910@N07/), on Flickr

[Kawauso]

Regarding the psychic powers Wall of Fire and The Burning - why not make the hits AP4? I mean, that would be in line with what they're emulating (heavy flamer hits) as well as Bry'arth Ashmantle, the FW Salamander dread HQ that can use his heavy flamer in close combat in lieu of his attacks. It works just like The Burning only it's also AP4. And not a psychic power, but still.

Just my 2 cents. :) This is looking interesting so far, though.

[wittdooley]

Clearly the rules portions are where I'm weakest, and that's a reflection of the fact that I'm more in 40k for the hobby than for the competetive ruleset. I'll certainly look into that. I need to re-read Badab 2 in order to determine whether or not the Dreadfire flamers are isoteric and therefore defunct, or if they're a weapon that could be reasonably used by Sallies dreads.

Today I'll probably work on some of the battles section. Not sure entirely how I'll format it, but I certainly don't like how in the Wolves and BA codecies how they put the battle recounts in first person. I'll have to mess around with it.

[Pegasus62]

I'm new to 40K however have view to army Salamanders - reading SM 5E and Salamnders description have converns with the following which you may be able to assist me with.

Each company of the Salamanders is from one of the seven Cities
Therefore all scouts come from the same city and since for sm scouts are the first training element to becoming a sm, it doesn't make sense unless each company/city fields scouts as the first stage towards becoming sm and stay within the company - meaning that each company has all elements of the sm classes with maybe strengths in a particular area.

Also why name as frist to seveth company and not just the city name - since it generates the pride and competitiveness between the companys as the sm codex says.

This would make the Salamanders truely unique in the sm's fluff.

I have other questions but this one is bothering me as the logic of the statentts with the sm codex is not being seen clearly by myself.

Any responses appreciated