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Dont-Be-Haten
09-03-2011, 07:35 PM
Hey Fantasy lovers, Dont-Be-haten here. I'm completely new to Warhammer Fantasy Battle, I'm just now starting to get into the game, and although This is a toss up between general discussion and tactics I'm going with the latter.

So a little back story before I start, I was in my local hobby/comic shop about two weeks ago and I foudn this awesome game being played Warhammer 40k, and althuoght it was cool and all I was simply awe-struck by the fantasy pieces and just had to check it out. One thing about me is that I research things before I actually play or get into them. So I ran the numbers and the BEST decision was to go with the Island of Blood Battle Chest, because it came with two armies alongside the army I really want to play which is the High Elves. I did some research on their back story and just fell in love with them. The skaven look awesome too; but I think I would become the crazed blood thirsty general that just throws units away as cannon fodder for my plague mortars or lighting attacks xD. So here are my first questions and I'll leave it at this for now.

1. Some people swear by the Sea Gaurd, and personally I just don't see how the massive points for them are worth it when spearmen and archers can be fielded in doubles for the price of Sea Gaurd with Shields.

2. With the new rules on War Machines are the Bolt Throwers really worth fielding at 100 points a piece with only having 2 wounds? I mean I guess its more balanced since Bolt Throwers can't Misfire.

3. I absolutely Love the Tiranoc and White Lion Chariots, and being able to field 2 Tiranoc Chariots to 1 Lion Chariot is a big deal, and from my research if you're going to field a chariot you always take them in doubles. So My question is essentially, can I substitute them for Great Eagles? (I don't really care to play the game competitively starting out and I don't like the great eagle models) I mean its like 20 points difference where its not really that big of a deal. I'll hold the rest of my questions for after these three are answered! :D

Thanks for reading and I hope to hear from people soon!
-DBH

Wildeybeast
09-04-2011, 08:49 AM
I can't answer all your questions, but I can have a try at some.

2) It depends what you intend to use your bolt thrower for. They are good for damaging units of heavily armoured elite units like knights, chaos warriors etc. Against lighter armoured troops you are better off with a unit of archers as you will get more shots and can take more damage in return. Equally, if you want to damage enemy war machines or monsters, go with a unit of archers as you will usually be wounding on 6's either way, so you will get more shots out of archers. So if you are going to be facing the likes of Chaos warriors, go for it. Against say skaven, leave them at home and take archers instead.

3) Eagles are great for running interference on enemy units, but they won't do much else. And as the models are metal, they are virtually impossible to use in a game without falling over and breaking, so I'd steer clear of them.

Mazelf
09-04-2011, 08:53 AM
Hey, welcome to WFB its an AWESOME game...

1. Some people swear by the Sea Gaurd, and personally I just don't see how the massive points for them are worth it when spearmen and archers can be fielded in doubles for the price of Sea Gaurd with Shields.

Sea guard do both things, shoot and be awesome in cc, basically youre paying 3 more points than a spearman, 1 more than an archer for a model which does both things. So yeah, seguard is better in just that its a combination of archer/spearmen for a tiny bit more. Lastly, you want to be fielding the least amount of core allowed, obviously you have to save your points for your specials.

2. With the new rules on War Machines are the Bolt Throwers really worth fielding at 100 points a piece with only having 2 wounds? I mean I guess its more balanced since Bolt Throwers can't Misfire.

I havent fielded bolt throwers since last edition, your points are better spent elsewhere...

3. I absolutely Love the Tiranoc and White Lion Chariots, and being able to field 2 Tiranoc Chariots to 1 Lion Chariot is a big deal, and from my research if you're going to field a chariot you always take them in doubles. So My question is essentially, can I substitute them for Great Eagles? (I don't really care to play the game competitively starting out and I don't like the great eagle models) I mean its like 20 points difference where its not really that big of a deal. I'll hold the rest of my questions for after these three are answered! :D

in my personal opinion lion chariots are better than tiranoc chariots in every sense, they hit much harder and are more survivable, but thats just me, chariots overall are awesome! now, instead of eagles? I think they cant do the same role, chariots cant march, and even tho the tiranocs 9 inch move is pretty awesome it still will take you a few turns to get to the back lines and start warmachine hunting ( that is if you make it, t4 5+ as is nothing to brag about), eagles get a much better movemore than double at 20 inches) and they are pretty nasty in cc against lightly armored and wimpy crews. Chariots for me will do much better at getting flank charges and causing some wounds with those str 5 impact hits. no reason why you cant take both tho...

good luck and hope I helped!

Dont-Be-Haten
09-04-2011, 07:04 PM
Hey Guys, Back from a day full of being productive. Let me start off by thanking both WildeyBeast and Mazelf for replying with valuable knowledge, I sure do appreciate it, and I'll get to replying to both of you now! :D

So I started off slow, I bought the Island of Blood and High Elf Battlion battle chests today, to get a decently sized little army going so I can go ahead and start up some pitch battles and what not; granted my special unit count is really low right now; but I plan on amassing quite a field of spearmen and archers for my hobby collection (I just like the spearmen//archers and though they fluff up the main regiments they will still be fun to amass on the shelf//if I get into higher point games.

Okay, so, I see what you're saying about the Chariots, and I really do love the white lion chariot and the Tiranoc chariot and curse the fact that I can only roll one right now, I might try and get on ebay and look up the chassey of a chariot and fill it with whichever I don't field. As much as I agree with your advice on the Eagles, I just don't care for them, if I ever decide to get more thans PUGs in then I will definitely invest in them.

I think I'm going to hold off on finishing up the chariot for now and take some time to weigh the pros and cons of each (and possibly encase I decide to buy another battlion or seperate chariot + bolt thrower)
I think I'm going play a seperate smaller unit of Sea Guard alongside Spearmen just for a few extra low cost bodies, that way I can have a solid cheap anchor unit that can still stand and shoot and another to off set and aggro my opponents a bit more.

I'm definitely going to field the Griffon Prince and I still need to get my hands on a BSB but that'll all work in good time. The Phoenix Guard are definitely going to be played when I can buy them, I think I'm gonna go 18-19 strong. I'm really excited about assemblying these armies and painting them. So If its okay I'm going to ask a couple more questions now.

4. Ellyrian Reavers are great Fast Cav, and from what I understand its good to field them with both spears and bows in a unit of 5 to help march block // charge with the extra +1 strength; and the march +shoot ability is cool also. Thumbs up or thumbs down?

5. Are Shadow Warriors worth the points? I like their lore and that they can be fielded as scouts/ambushers and I don't think I'll be playing against a lot of static war machines, but if I do, I was thinking about them because I think a +5 unit is 80 points and combined with the Ravers would help me fan out over War Machines, not to mention giving a Griffon Prince a lovely +1 target against them to focus on it rather than the latter, just thoughts a longside my questions.

Hope to hear back soon!
-DBH

Wildeybeast
09-05-2011, 09:42 AM
You can use either unit for hunting war machines, both will be quite useful, but both a fairly fragile and if your opponent regularly fields war machines, they will make it a priority to target such units, so the may not get a chance to do so. So I would perhaps take one or the other and use them as a sacrifical unit. If they get to do what they need great, if not they are fairly cheap so its no big loss. One of the best ways to take out war machines as high elves is big blocks of archers. Given that you can wound anything on a 6, with a block of 30 odd archers you stand a good chance of taking out a war machine in one round of shooting (believe me, I've been on the recieving end of this and it is very effective)

Mazelf
09-05-2011, 10:13 AM
I really hope you dont get teed off at me but I have to say, ellyrian reavers are not worth fielding as they cost waaay too much for what they do and your much needed points are better spent elsewhere, ditto for shadow warriors (although they are a little bit better than the reavers), this does not mean you shouldnt field them if you love the fluff/minis, I myself am more of a competitive player and usually gor for army lists which disregard the fluff and focus more on effectiveness.

a good list may be your prince on griphon, one or two mages, BSB, minimum core, and blocks of swordmasters/lions and one block of phoenix guard to act as an anvil

cheers

Dont-Be-Haten
09-05-2011, 01:44 PM
Good thoughts guys. I'll try and adress both according so please bare with me. xD

Wildeybeast, I've seen a few batreps where the archers do infact kill the war machines and I think I will try that out, no harm no foul. I have a decently made 1750 ish point army just to play around with so the archers with long bows will definitely hit the field. Thanks for the addy there!

Mazelf, I have no qualms with your addy. I just lulzed, No reason for D-ram in this forum yet, and I'm really just taking it all with a grain of salt, I know the aformentioned units I asked about are not quote'competitive'unquote but I like them, and I'm not looking at it from a competitive stand point, especially starting out. Now if I play against some jerk that just goes foo-pah and tables me because of outlandishly stronger units (because we all know they are out there, and it really gets my face red from people like that, especially when you're trying to learn a game) I'll be more inclined to go into a more competitive build. But definitely thanks for the advice. I research so much when I pick something up that I plan on investing in, so I've already seen what competitive lists are out there. But for PUGs and lulz I'm just going to make my own little Force and enjoy winning or losing based on plays and lady luck! ;)

Thank you both again for additional input I'll have some more questions in abit but for now, weather is rather nasty outside, Later!~

-DBH

magickbk
09-06-2011, 12:39 PM
The trick to Reavers is never getting them in combat. Well, at least not until the end of the game, anyway. It is best to use them to bait your enemy to charge, and then flee as a charge reaction. The current edition of the game makes this tactic far less reliable than it used to be, but it is still viable if you are careful with your unit positioning. The trick is to move towards the enemy, and use the bows to pick off weaker units(war machine crews, individual models and beasts, enemy fast cav, etc.). When your opponent charges them you flee, drawing his unit closer. Hopefully, you've planned carefully and have some Chariots or something else that hits hard waiting to smash into him. Hopefully your Reavers also rally(bring a musician!) and can then move past the enemy and get behind the main battle line. Once there, they are free to wreak havoc by charging fleeing units, and other weaker units that are behind the enemy's front.

The key to using an army like this is to be patient. The High Elves don't have expendable troops to throw carelessly into the enemy to wear them down. Try to outmaneuver your opponent, and remember the objective for whatever scenario you are playing.

People will tell you certain units are terrible, you can't win without taking a certain unit, etc. The fact of the matter is that you can take any units you want, and find a way to win games with it. I've had a single Great Eagle win me a game before with a perfectly timed and placed charged. You will also find that the way people play the game varies wildly between Countries, Cities and Stores in various places. What this means is that you need to start playing a few games, re-reading rules sections in between, and tailor your army to accommodate weaknesses that you discover during games. Also, Warhammer was never designed for competitive play and never will be. This is why the majority of internet complaint posts about the game will contain the word 'competitive'. Find yourself a good group of people to play with who aren't the competitive-list types. You will enter into a war of list-escalation until at some point you realize that you aren't playing to have fun anymore, which is the whole point of games in the first place. This isn't to say that tournaments can't be fun, just that there is a lot more fun to be had in the Warhammer universe if you don't play competitively to the exclusion of everything else.

Good luck!

Dont-Be-Haten
09-06-2011, 01:15 PM
'Lo Magickbk thanks for the addy! :D I completely agree with everything you said. I've watched a bunch of batreps over podcasts and youtube where the guys (and girls) seem to intense, and that they have to win at all costs, even if they field hordes of goblins. Like they seem to 'bend' the rules and what not. Not always mind you but, I've definitely watched some questionable batreps.

That being said, I tend to agree with you, Warhammer seems to be more reliant on smart tactical moves and a little inspiration from Lady Luck. Like this one poor guy was getting creamed by some guys Waaaagh! magick and then he drops box cars and gets sucked into the nether and loses shortly afterwards. I thought, "I guess don't throw five power dice on a foot of gork for 3 magic phases in a row..."

I know what you mean about a good group of friends though, you eventually get to where you want to surprise your opponent with a new model/list and then they want to surprise you, and you keep escalating until it isn't as fun as it used to be because you're continually wanting to go big, fast, and hard at your opponent.

There was a guy not too long ago playing skaven, and he threw 20 dice at something and dropped like fifteen 1s. Then he /ragedquit and left, squeeled out of the parking lot and left all his stuff on the table, the guy playing him luckily knew the unlucky sod. I on the other hand was just like, "whooooa..." I mean c'mon there's absolutely no need for something like that.

Hope to keep the dialog going, wonderful addies and convos keep it up everyone! Oh and thanks!~
-DBH

magickbk
09-06-2011, 01:49 PM
I guess don't throw five power dice on a foot of gork for 3 magic phases in a row...

As a High Elf player, no. But doing something really dangerous repeatedly until it blows up in your face seems pretty much on par with everything else in the Orc way of life, and pretty characterful from a player perspective.

Dont-Be-Haten
09-06-2011, 02:46 PM
Heh! I know, I can almost envision the insane Orc Shammy going blood drunk and power crazed and then just poof blows up his entire unit of 'ard boyz and then gets sucked into the nether. Commical indeed.

for the lulz.
-DBH