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EEG
09-07-2009, 01:56 PM
this is the latest incarnation of a Tyranids list i had been toying around with for some time. it would be nice to get it finished before that new codex comes out!

HQ
Hive Tyrant - wings, warp field, scything talons (x2)

Elites
Carnifex - devourers (x2), enhanced senses, flesh hooks

Troops
Spinegaunts (x10)
Termagaunts (x12)
Hormagaunts (x20)
Hormagaunts (x14)
Hormagaunts (x14)
Genestealers (x8)

Fast Attack
Warriors (x6) - wings, adrenal glands (I), scything talons, spinefists

Heavy Support
Zoanthrope (x2) - synapse
Carnifex - bonded exoskeleton, extended carapace, scything talons (x2), adrenal glands (I), toxic miasma, reinforced chitin, flesh hooks

Ghoulio
09-07-2009, 02:19 PM
Its an interesting looking list for the most part. A large amount of scoring units which is good (although 4 of the 6 will be a big part of your offense). The main issue I see is your lack of Tank busting ability at range (and even in Hand to Hand its just the 2 carnifexs and the tyrant). If you end up having to play any army with lots of transports (ie a ranged guard or eldar army) there really wont be much you can do to stop them. I would try to get either some deathspitters on the warriors instead of spine fists and splitting them into 2 units of 3, warp blast on the Zoanthropes (although they arent THAT great due to crap BS, psychic test and short range) or some ranged weapons on your HtH fex...although they are pretty cool when built for hand to hand :)

drummerholt1234
09-07-2009, 02:29 PM
OK so how do you deal with Mech?

EEG
09-07-2009, 05:54 PM
in the past, the armies that i've played tended to either be 1. outnumbered or 2. outmanuevered. when i made this list, i tried to minimize those problems. granted, with 5th ed, mechanized lists are now more common. also, i wanted to avoid making a shooty 'Nidzilla list since i felt it had been overdone.


the main issue now is finding the right balance of upgrades while maintaining a fairly intimidating number of models.

the first place i could trim would be that 20-model squad of Hormagaunts, maybe shrinking it down to 10-14 models. i could also remove the toxic miasma from the Carnifex.

with those freed-up points i could probably give the "scuttlers" ability and maybe even "feeder tendrils" to the Genestealers or "warp blast" to the zoanthropes.it would've been nice to also give the Warriors either rending claws or a second pair of scything talons, but that would eat up more points.

mkerr
09-07-2009, 08:18 PM
the main issue now is finding the right balance of upgrades while maintaining a fairly intimidating number of models.

Looks like a lot of fun -- it's nice to see gaunts in a Tyranid army!

Here are some comments specifically to address tightening your list (especially against mechanized forces) but keeping in the spirit of the army you are building.

One that the things that's hard to see with Tyranids is exactly how you play the list. I'm assuming that the Hive Tyrant and winged Warriors make up a fast attacking arm of your army while the Zoanthropes provide synapse for your gaunt horde (most likely shielded behind your Carnifexes).

If things go lucky for you, your winged nids and hormagaunts can tie up your opponent until the tougher units get there. This is something of a "Death of a Thousand Cuts" army. Even if things go badly, you may end up losing a few units but it's tough to kill 80+ gaunts in 5-6 turns, giving you the ability to control objectives (especially if your opponent focuses on your TMCs).

Something like that, right? I'm going to have to pull my Nids out and give winged Warriors a try -- if you can manage to keep the costs under control, I bet they'd be a lot of fun!

Here are my comments:

1. I don't think I'd worry about Warp Field on my Winged Tyrant. With the 6 Warriors surrounding him, I don't think your opponent is going to focus much fire on him (and if they do, then the Warriors will take them out).

I'd go with Wings, Scything Talons x2, Impant Attack and Acid Maw. That gives you six attacks on the charge with re-rolls to wound (and if you can get Feeding Tendrils near them, then it's pretty much 6 wounds).

2. I know the Warriors are expensive, but what's the thought behind the Spinefists? 12 BS2 twin-linked shots are nice, but that BS2 is really rough. That's going to give you 6 S4 AP5 hits, which isn't a ton (especially when you don't really want to shoot with these guys, you want to assault with them).

I'd suck up the extra 12pts and put a second Scything Talon on them (or Lash Whips or Rending Claws -- depending on what you fight).

3. That 176pt Carnifex is a beast. If he gets there, he'll cause a lot of damage but I find they are just too easy to get stuck in close combat (even with 4 attacks he's only going to cause ~2 wounds each turn). I might skimp on a couple of his pricier upgrades, like Bonded Exoskeleton and Toxic Miasma, if you need the points elsewhere. He's not central to you plan -- unless you see a lot of Landraiders in your region.

4. Now for the hard part, your Troops.

a. 44 Hormagaunts is rough and there's a nice little trick that I use with them. I trick mine out a bit better (+1 I, +1WS and +1S) and I charge them just out of synapse range. If they win, that's awesome. But if they lose (usually in my opponent's turn) their crappy LD5 will fail while their I5 lets them get away. They fall back into Synapse range (immediately regroup) and on my turn, they charge in again. I call it the "Hivemind Hit & Run".

If you bumped them up, you'd have to cut down from 44 Hormagaunts to 30, but I usually do it with two squads of 12-14 (depending on the points).

b. Always take Scuttlers on your Genestealers. Even if you don't plan on outflanking them, you'll want to remind your opponent that you CAN outflank them. That gentle reminder will encourage him to deploy at least 18" from the sides (packing his army into the center 36" of his deployment. That gives you a much richer target to push the rest of your army towards, lol.

c. Spinegaunts and Termagants are nice for grabbing objectives and tying up other units. Spinegaunts are a crazy good deal at 5pts each. Keep at least 20 cheap gaunts, if you can.

5. I'd love to see a Lictor in this army. They are surprisingly effective against tanks in the backfield and they are worth the 80pts alone for Feeder Tendrils. In your army, I'd bring him in right next to where you plan on hitting your opponent with your Winged units or your Hormagaunts. Those re-rolls for Feeder Tendrils are unreal. Lictors are pricey, but they options they give you are amazing.

Best of luck and I can't wait to hear more about your army!

-- mkerr

EEG
09-08-2009, 08:49 PM
thank you guys for the help so far (especially mkerr)!

here's how the list is/was supposed to play:
-Hormagaunts charge down the center
-Warriors (either as 1 unit or split in 2, depending on situation) follow close behind to keep the Hormagaunts within synapse coverage.
-Zoanthropes further back would act as secondary synapse nodes. With the Spinegaunts and Termagaunts providing cover saves for the Zoanthropes, they would try to claim any objectives.
-Dakka 'Fex tries to neutralize any threats to the Warriors.
-The big&tough Carnifex is there as a fat distraction. If it gets into combat, great. If not, then it will have hopefully spared some other unit from being shot up.
-Genestealers as a react.
-Hive Tyrant would be a mobile synapse node, as well as another big distraction.

current revision ideas:
-cut the 20-model Hormagaunt squad and use the points to include either a 2nd squad of Genestealers and distribute some upgrades.
-Refit the winged Warriors with 2 sets of scything talons, adrenal glands (I), and extended carapace.

***

the hit&run tactic with the Hormagaunts sounds fun but i'm not sure about upgrading the Hormagaunts at all. chances are, they're just going to die anyways and that might be a waste of points.

also a little conflicted on whether or not to keep warp field on the Hive Tyrant. there are reasons for keeping & tossing that ability.

as for the possibility of including a Lictor (or more), i like the idea of having it there to support the Genestealers or just to make a mess by itself. however, i'm currently hoping to get 2 Tyranid battleforces next month and would first like to maximize the use of those models first.

will try to get some numbers crunched and have an updated list tomorrow.

eagleboy7259
09-08-2009, 09:51 PM
a. 44 Hormagaunts is rough and there's a nice little trick that I use with them. I trick mine out a bit better (+1 I, +1WS and +1S) and I charge them just out of synapse range. If they win, that's awesome. But if they lose (usually in my opponent's turn) their crappy LD5 will fail while their I5 lets them get away. They fall back into Synapse range (immediately regroup) and on my turn, they charge in again. I call it the "Hivemind Hit & Run".

I really like the "Hivemind Hit & Run" idea, but I have to disagree with you and tricking out your hormagaunts that much. More numbers tend to be better when you are dealing with paper thin armor and just regular close combat attacks. Not to say that you shouldnt upgrade them, just with the current WS chart adding 1+ to the already decent WS of the hormagaunts doesnt do as much as you would think. With mathhammer, adding 1+ S or 1+I you can get a decent benefit to your combat results, but the I bonus edges out the rest for its cheapness, its added benefit when not fighting marines, and thats its more of a two sided sword, killing first means you get killed alot less.

-I would swap out the scything talons on the hive tyrant to 2 pairs of twin-linked devourers. 12 S 4 AP 5 twin-linked shots and straight up take out a whole squad. The 2 additional attacks are only better situationally over the devourers if you are really worried about heavy armor, otherwise throw in toxin sacs and those shots and mess up most transports.

-The Zoanthropes could really use Warp Blast or some other power. If they are going to be advancing and hiding behind your gaunts, then that should usually put them close to range with most tanks, helping with anti-armor. If not, Warp Blast is pretty useful as a marine-killer.


b. Always take Scuttlers on your Genestealers. Even if you don't plan on outflanking them, you'll want to remind your opponent that you CAN outflank them. That gentle reminder will encourage him to deploy at least 18" from the sides (packing his army into the center 36" of his deployment. That gives you a much richer target to push the rest of your army towards, lol.

-Half agree and disagree. Usually outflanking is more of an issue of survival for your genestealers, you can typically get away with this by hiding them behind some gaunts to pick up the cover save. I would, however, add feeder tendrils to your genestealers because preferred enemy is amazing in assault and its so dang cheap.


1. I don't think I'd worry about Warp Field on my Winged Tyrant. With the 6 Warriors surrounding him, I don't think your opponent is going to focus much fire on him (and if they do, then the Warriors will take them out).


-If you're trying to tie your Tyrant up in assault then I would worry. Most models are S4 and with only T6 they usually have a decent enough chance to wound him in assault. Sure it won't do you any good against power fists and thunder hammers but it will save you a bunch vs the rest of the squad.

-I would cut out the Godfex and the Dakka Fex and throw in two Sniper Fexs for anti-tank (Venom Cannon, Barbed Strangler, Enhanced Senses 148pts) Although the Godfex is a nice firemagent, it tends to almost never earn its points back, because it is rarely able to get into assault before turn 3, has mediocre WS and a fairly low number of attacks even when upgraded. If youre Tyrant is Dakka, hes better at anti-troop then your Carnifex anyway and the Sniper could really help you out.

-I would try to cut down on the amount of Hormagaunts you have in your army. Popular opinion is that they are way overpriced for the effect they have on the battlefield. Genestealers are 2x as effective in assault for a favourable trade off in points and with tendrils will help out your other units in assault. Spine Gaunts are 2x as numerous with the obvious benefit.

-It might be worthwhile to look at Bio-Plasma for your Warriors in place of Adreanal Glands I (or with it if you can find the points) The addtional attack at the increased I is better in my mind than just increasing the I.


5. I'd love to see a Lictor in this army. They are surprisingly effective against tanks in the backfield and they are worth the 80pts alone for Feeder Tendrils. In your army, I'd bring him in right next to where you plan on hitting your opponent with your Winged units or your Hormagaunts. Those re-rolls for Feeder Tendrils are unreal. Lictors are pricey, but they options they give you are amazing.

-Please don't fool around with Lictors. S6 and rending has a very limited ability to kill tanks in this current edition. In assault they are only about as survivable as an Ork Nob, if you put tendrils on your genestealers you get the same effect, more troops means more range, gives you more re-rolls and they will arrive in assault around the same time as the core of your army so you will typically have the benefit in the same assault phase.

*****

Sorry I know its a little bit more critical than the previous posts, but I believe you're on the right track, you just need to keep on going.

EEG
09-09-2009, 04:31 PM
here is the updated list:

HQ
Hive Tyrant - wings, warp field, scything talons (x2)

Troops
Spinegaunts (x13)
Termagaunts (x12)
Hormagaunts (x16)
Hormagaunts (x16)
Genestealers (x11) - scuttlers, feeder tendrils

Fast Attack
Warriors (2 squads of 3) - wings, bio-plasma, scything talons (x2)

Heavy Support
Zoanthropes (x2) - synapse, warp blast
Carnifex - barbed strangler, venom cannon, enhanced senses
Carnifex - bonded exoskeleton, extended carapace, reinforced chitin, scything talons (x2), adrenal glands (I), flesh hooks

overall, the list should still function more or less like how i described earlier. this time though, the Sniperfex just might be a bigger fire magnet than the Godfex