Planetstrike And Daemonhunters: The Match MAde In Heaven

[thecactusman17]

Daemonhunters is often considered one of the weakest codexes in the current game, and with small wonder. While the 3rd edition list was an interesting, fluffy way to combat powerful armies several years ago, advancements in the points, rules and wargear options have made most subsequent codexes capable of fielding more troops, often withg a suite of abilities that make them more effective than anything the Inquisition can field.

But that was then, this is now.

In Planetstrike, the entire Codex becomes significantly more viable with the addition of several rule changes. This leads to a few units getting impressive new abilities and enables the usage of one of the most ridiculous abilities ever conceived of in the game of 40k.

Grey Knights: Grey Knights have always been maligned as an overexpensive unit in standard 40k. AND THEY ARE. 25 points gives them abilities that rarely see use, and rarely pose a threat to other codexes. Most embarassingly, Daemons. Despite a ridiculous loadout of weaponry, there is little or no opportunity to actually get it into the short-range-to-CC zone where GKs excel. And even when they do, the surprising dearth of power weapons means that it is difficult to actually hurt anything with a solid save. When the blows inevitably return, there are no invulnerable saves to protect the unit.

But in planetstrike, this is all made irrelevant, because with six fast attack and six elites choices (and three GK heroes with terminator bodyguard retinues) that can all deepstrike it is now not only possible, but highly likely that you can get those bad boys into combat. 50 point terminators now charge into assault immediately after hitting the table, dishing out remarkable levels of pain.GKs in power armor carry melta bombs in against Bastions and Incinerators against defense lines.

Inquisitors: Inquisitors, and in fact the whole non-GK range, benefit immensely on defense, all thanks to a simple, cost effective unit: the lowly Inquisitor. Once little more than a tool for bringing along an assassin, Daemonhunter Inquisitors now have a far more important role on the battlefield: Killing every last ******* thing. On your OPPONENT'S turn. the addition of two mystics mean that any unit within a 1 foot radius becomes a potential engine of destruction against deep striking units. Combined with a Leman Russ Squadron, an Inquisitor-held Artillery Turret or a 20-man unit of Sisters of Battle (or the terrifying 50-soldier Guard Platoon) your opponent will drop once. And only once. And then everything he can, from game two on, will enter play from the board edge.

With enough Inquisitors spread between them, it is wholly realistic to achieve a turn-1 board wipe. Before your turn begins. Though of course, this list will likely result in fewer friends and much retooling of lists shortly thereafter.

Thoughts, criticisms and comments are welcome.

[wash-away]

this is possible in regular 40k as well with GKs in Valks.

put them next to straken you get in 5 str 7 GK's chargin turn 1 to kill the line.

however the valk is to big for one 6/4 but thats just me.

[Lord Inquisitor]

I've always hated how much the Grey Knights suck nowadays, ubt as you explained it fills me with great joy that they can actually be cost effective now.

[GPrime]

Loving the inquisitor/leman russ sqn combo

im sure to loser a few friends to that one....:D

[Vikin]

So what you're saying is that as a Dh attacker you will denie your opponent any space to deepstrike due to mass units on the board because you go first + allot of terminatorsquads that assault in turn one? Bastion mounted guns can take free potshots at your deepstriking units, stratagems can be chosen to get free attacks at any deepstriking units (crackattack) Carefully placed terain can deny the atttacker allot of availleble free place to safely deepstrike (terain setup is 50% of the game in planetstrike) resulting in risky deepstrikes or deepstrike mishaps. Agis defense line cannot be removed with the initial planetary bombardment and troops get a 2+ coversave when they go to ground.

I am not saying it's a dangerous army i have my doubts it's so good like you tell us it is.

[Constantine]

It is nice to see enthusiasm and new approaches being fed to GK players through the addition of Planet strike . We needed something to wake us up :D

[GVEGames]

It is nice to see enthusiasm and new approaches being fed to GK players through the addition of Planet strike . We needed something to wake us up :D

Agreed. While I don't think Planetstrike favors DH, I think that it definitely gives us some interesting options that may get us thinking about buying again. Darn it! That was their plan all along: to sell us stuff! That's how they get you...

[Inquisitor Malak]

I think Planetstrike does favour Daemonhunters, for a few reasons;

1. Mystics: Bastion guns are all good (although the BS2 is sucky), but being able to pick which unit to kill whatever just landed in your face is a huge bonus. As the OP said, after one game against Mystics, people will go for a conventional table edge assault.

2. Fast Attack Grey Knights/Grey Knight Terminators: In normal games, I only take 4 x GKT's as a retinue to my GM, and I never take teleport attack squads. However, in Planetstrike, anything can score, and anything that already can Deepstrike can assault after landing. Combined with the expanded FA slots for the Attacker, you can field your entire compliment of power-armoured Knights in FA, and take 2-3 squads of GKT's on top of that.
For breaking open bastions, Justicars can take meltabombs, and Brother-Captains/Grandmasters can take chainfists. Anti-infantry isn't a problem for them (they all have at least a storm bolter, plus the psycannon/incinerator specialists), and co-ordinated assaults will be hard to push back.

3. Narrative: Planetstrike is rather like Apoc in that it suits narrative style games, because both sides can tool up with broken stuff to equal levels (depending on what armies are involved). In the background, Grey Knights rarely deploy with Dreadnought or Landraider support (unlike in regular 40k where it is essential), they instead teleport into the heart of the enemy from their orbiting strike cruiser(s). Planetstrike lets a DH player do this in a very cool and themed way (regular 40k completely screws with it), while still being effective (assaulting after Deepstrike etc).

[GVEGames]

I think Planetstrike does favour Daemonhunters, for a few reasons;

1. Mystics: Bastion guns are all good (although the BS2 is sucky), but being able to pick which unit to kill whatever just landed in your face is a huge bonus. As the OP said, after one game against Mystics, people will go for a conventional table edge assault.

2. Fast Attack Grey Knights/Grey Knight Terminators: In normal games, I only take 4 x GKT's as a retinue to my GM, and I never take teleport attack squads. However, in Planetstrike, anything can score, and anything that already can Deepstrike can assault after landing. Combined with the expanded FA slots for the Attacker, you can field your entire compliment of power-armoured Knights in FA, and take 2-3 squads of GKT's on top of that.
For breaking open bastions, Justicars can take meltabombs, and Brother-Captains/Grandmasters can take chainfists. Anti-infantry isn't a problem for them (they all have at least a storm bolter, plus the psycannon/incinerator specialists), and co-ordinated assaults will be hard to push back.

3. Narrative: Planetstrike is rather like Apoc in that it suits narrative style games, because both sides can tool up with broken stuff to equal levels (depending on what armies are involved). In the background, Grey Knights rarely deploy with Dreadnought or Landraider support (unlike in regular 40k where it is essential), they instead teleport into the heart of the enemy from their orbiting strike cruiser(s). Planetstrike lets a DH player do this in a very cool and themed way (regular 40k completely screws with it), while still being effective (assaulting after Deepstrike etc).

Oh, I totally agree with everything you just said. I think what I meant was that it doesn't favor them 'to the point of being overpowered'. Let's face it, DH is typically on the wrong side of the power curve. Planetstrike is a playstyle that works to the strengths of DH, but not to the extent that they are significantly more powerful than any other army. At least not in my opinion.

I do LOVE the Inquisitor/mystic combo in Planetstrike though. They're such an oft-overlooked retinue member (at least in my area) that they can really catch people off guard.

[Lerra]

I wouldn't say that all DK termies are bad - they just lack the support they need from their own codex. A guy at my FLGS regularly rocks people with a DH list with IG allies, running Terminators in Chimeras.

[thecactusman17]

So what you're saying is that as a Dh attacker you will denie your opponent any space to deepstrike due to mass units on the board because you go first + allot of terminatorsquads that assault in turn one? Bastion mounted guns can take free potshots at your deepstriking units, stratagems can be chosen to get free attacks at any deepstriking units (crackattack) Carefully placed terain can deny the atttacker allot of availleble free place to safely deepstrike (terain setup is 50% of the game in planetstrike) resulting in risky deepstrikes or deepstrike mishaps. Agis defense line cannot be removed with the initial planetary bombardment and troops get a 2+ coversave when they go to ground.

I am not saying it's a dangerous army i have my doubts it's so good like you tell us it is.

I'm saying that I will get a lot more units on the board than he can hurt (try it, it's surprisingly hard to kill stuff with anything other than cheezed out las-gate defense corridors). And then, those units will shoot and assault whatever is in front of them.

I'm not saying the codex doesn't have its flaws, I'm saying that finally they have some strengths. And while they may share these strengths with a few other armies, it doesn't negate the fact that they are strengths.

If we were talking about six squads of Marines deep striking and then immediately charging into combat with their current standard loadout, most of the community would ***** about it to no end and with good reason.

I can place SIX units with better weaponry on the table. At a cost ranging from a mere 900 points to over 2000. And that's all in power armor.

Terrain is vitally important in Planetstrike, no doubt about it. But it is pretty damn tough to actually seal off more than a small area of any given board without a LOT of custom-made terrain. And while I am sure you can come up with some ridiculous scenario like covering every square inch of the board in water, I'm also willing to bet that my decision to bypass you immediately for another player who isn't a complete ******* will be in keeping with the majority of your opponents.

//Actually, the "Cover in Water" scenario just gave me an idea. A horrible, wicked, terrible no-good idea.

///As though spoken by Boris Karloff.

[Inquisitor Malak]

I wouldn't say that all DK termies are bad - they just lack the support they need from their own codex. A guy at my FLGS regularly rocks people with a DH list with IG allies, running Terminators in Chimeras.

It's not about being bad, it's just they're so expensive and they can't score in normal 40k. Every squad of GKT's you buy is a squad of scoring PAGK you can't take now. So, there is a trade-off (just as there is with how much Raider/Dreadnought support you bring).
So, in Planetstrike, you can use GKT's to their full extent (ie in greater numbers, maybe larger squads), and not be penalised for it.
GKT's in Chimeras is interesting, I'd go for a Landraider personally (you can buy a Witchunter Elite Inq for 20pts, then buy a Landraider, stick the Inquisitor in a corner to twiddle his thumbs while the GKT's catch a ride). Chimeras are stupidly easy to kill, all you need is LOS to side armour and they're bolter fodder.

[Rapture]

I wouldn't say that all DK termies are bad - they just lack the support they need from their own codex. A guy at my FLGS regularly rocks people with a DH list with IG allies, running Terminators in Chimeras.

Terminators in chimeras? That doesn't sound unfair...

[CrusherJoe]

Point cost aside (and I realize that's a HUGE thing to set aside, but bear with me here) I can think of several reasons to only taxi termies (of any type, be they GKT, TH/SS, etc.) in a Land Raider.

First off is overall protection. Sure that chimera is cheap (...relatively, anyway, and certainly cheaper than dirt in the new Guard 'dex) but that won't matter much if it's constantly shot out from under (or around) your GKTs. One side armor shot and suddenly your very expensive GKTs are footsloggers...and as my grandpappy used to say, "Boy, a footsloggin' termie is a dead termie." While a LR is far from invincible, you have to admit they can be pretty hard to kill.

Secondly -- and I consider this to be the biggest advantage the LR has over Chimeras) -- is the assault ramp. Drive up, disembark, rapid fire, assault. Point click die. Mount back up next turn then wash, rinse, repeat (though of course the tactical situation at the time may determine another course of action, such as staying out and stalking prey the old fashioned way). There is no substitute for the safe ride you get in the LR all the way to rapid fire/assault time the assault ramp provides.

Lastly....LR > Chimera in coolness factor in every way. Can you imagine -- from a fluff standpoint -- GKTs mounting up in a Chimera? Personally...I can't. :)

[MOZZ]

Hmmm, two things occur to me here. First of all, Chimeras are a dedicated transport in the IG dex so your budy can't start with the GKTs inside. Second, and more important, GKTs can't ride in chimeras. Read the appropriate dexes. That is illegal. Your friend probably doesn't realize but I would point that out if I were you.

[Coyote]

Hmmm, two things occur to me here. First of all, Chimeras are a dedicated transport in the IG dex so your budy can't start with the GKTs inside. Second, and more important, GKTs can't ride in chimeras. Read the appropriate dexes. That is illegal. Your friend probably doesn't realize but I would point that out if I were you.

I agree that they can't start out in the Chimera, BUT if he is using a chimera from an inducted IG plt then the chimera follows the rules from the rulebook and he should be able to carry them in it. Atleast that is how I read it....I could be wrong it's happened once before ;)


The Agis Defense line does give a 2+ cover save, but remember that incinerators deny cover saves!

Has anyone played a Planetstrike game with their DH army? I'd be curious to know how they did.

[thecactusman17]

I'm a huge DH fan, I really am. I love the way the allies rules can work.

But if somebody tried to place GKTs in a transport they were never intended to take, then the game is over, and I will hold it as a loss for the other player. Chimeras cannot now nor ever could in either the previous or current Guard and DH codexes ride in Chimeras. They were clearly not intended to. It is time to fess up that you are wrong and start getting Land Raiders if you don't want your termies to Deepstrike their way across the field.

[Lerra]

tbh, Terminators in Chimeras isn't that strong, and I don't have any problem playing against his list. CrusherJoe is right in that Chimeras pop open very easily, and GK termies are notoriously wimpy when they are exposed out in the open. No invuln saves means that my Vindicators have a very good day :)

Fluff-wise, it's not any worse than the fellow running all 4 chaos gods in his Daemon army, or the guy running blue space wolves, and as far as I can tell, it is a valid army by RAW.

[thecactusman17]

It's like this: I expect that if my terminators--of whichever stripe--are going to get into a vehicle, it should be a vehicle they were meant to get into. Chimeras cannot carry Terminators--it says so right there in the DH codex. Pulling chimeras from another codex without the rule is sneaky, exploitive, and indicates that you are the sort of player that likes to bend rules intentionally--unintentionally I can tolerate (still do that plenty, especially with new armies) but rule one I was taught when I got into the game was "Don't Be A Dick." It's not just a rule for 40k.

[Inquisitor Malak]

Yeah, the 'GKT's in Chimera' thing is tricky (because RAW in the DH codex doesn't mean anything in the IG codex, they're two completely different transports and rulesets). I would go with the principle that A: Chimeras wouldn't normally transport GKT's and B: Chimeras are a bad option anyway. So, don't do it.

So yeah, just buy a cheap WH Inquisitor, buy him a Landraider, then shove the GKT's in it. Alternatively, you could put them in a Valkyrie, although people may bring up the 'Ard Boyz FAQ ;) .


No invuln saves means that my Vindicators have a very good day

Er, what? GKT's have the same 5+ invul that all models in TDA have. Sure, it's not reliable, but it's still there as a last-ditch thing.

[The Plastic Surgeon]

I think at the end of the day, you'd most likely break the bank on points with taking so many Termies and even normal GKs..

Now where is my copy of AB3?

[RealGenius]

Er, what? GKT's have the same 5+ invul that all models in TDA have. Sure, it's not reliable, but it's still there as a last-ditch thing.

Maybe that's the advantage of the Chimera? Better to get the 4+ cover save from the Chimera wreckage than the 5+ invuln. :)

[thecactusman17]

In the original context of this post, the idea was about Daemonhunters in Planetstrike. Remember, those terminators don't need a Land Raider or any other type of vehicle--they deepstrike onto the board, then immediately assault anything nearby. If it's big, they probably stay stuck in for plenty long enough to do harm and avoid the big cannons. If it's small, leave it--go direct those S6 power weapons at tanks and walkers.

[Coyote]

This is all very interesting. While I totally see the advantages given to DH in PS, I still wonder if it's enough to overcome the primary disadvatage which IMHO is always the uberr low model count. Maybe since DSing is a little more viable I'll be saving points by not taking a Landraider.

With regards to GKT's in inducted IG chimeras: Though I think it's technically legal I really don't like the idea myself. Maybe...maybe normal GK's in power armour but GKT's just doesn't add up.

[Lord Sandwich]

In the original context of this post, the idea was about Daemonhunters in Planetstrike. Remember, those terminators don't need a Land Raider or any other type of vehicle--they deepstrike onto the board, then immediately assault anything nearby. If it's big, they probably stay stuck in for plenty long enough to do harm and avoid the big cannons. If it's small, leave it--go direct those S6 power weapons at tanks and walkers.

Nope, I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one -- GKTs should be headed after elite infantry, not tanks and walkers, to fully capitalize on their power weapons. Send the regular FA GKs after tanks and walkers.

[thecactusman17]

Nope, I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one -- GKTs should be headed after elite infantry, not tanks and walkers, to fully capitalize on their power weapons. Send the regular FA GKs after tanks and walkers.

The reason for the walkers and tanks is for a few reasons.

First off, Termies can't take melta bombs. You CAN take a TH/SS combo of the older variety. The GKFAs should be directing against those bastions. AV14 is NOT easy to take out.

Second, GKTs get an additional attack for charging. Unlike GKFAs, who will never have more than two. So they have more S6 attacks to throw against enemy vehicles, if there isn't a suitable CC unit in range.

Third, if you are running other GKs in power armor, they can get into and hold the first round of CC except against a very few units. Terminators will still have to worry about returned powerfists etc. when they charge, unless you have an unusually large mass of them. So giving them an extra turn to close and mop is actually a pretty smart idea. Also, with psycannons porting in behind, they are more likely to punch tank squads to death.

This is entirely my opinion though. If you find they work better elsewhere, more power to ya!

[The Plastic Surgeon]

Well I worked it out!

At 6000pts, you can have a Grandmaster with full retinue, everyone who can carry a psycannon carries one and 60 GKTs.

So that's 70 GKTs, with 60 GKMs taken as FA with a pair of Dreadies with lascannons and CCW!

All Assaulting and shooting on the turn that they arrive.

[kevlarmonkey]

even with that amount of GKs you are still looking at being Horribly out numbered. somewhere around four to one, and GKM die just as easily as regular SMs

[Coyote]

I played my first ps game recently. As defender I got the shaft (not complaining since I barely won). I had to split my forces in two and the attacker got to pick which half started in reserve. For obvious reasons he picked the half that included my inquisitor w/ 3HB servitors and 2 mystics. Then I lost about half of my GK's in the pre game bombardment. It was brutal but fun. In the end it game down to one dice role and one model in determining who won the game. The dice gods smiled on me rather than him in that instance :D

[DarkLink]

I've played 4 PS games now, 3 with Grey Knights and one with sisters allied with my friends marines. I won each game. Give the GKT's the supply drop strategem, and they can suddenly deal with bastions easily, and assault through cover. Played well, Grey knights are devestating as attackers. Though it does help to use forgeworld rules to get drop pods for your dreadnoughts.

Of course, the first game (with my sisters) my necron opponent lost his monolith to a lucky interceptor shot, and two of his Immortal squads and one of his lords were killed deepstriking, leaving him with two more lords and a few Immortals (which were quickly mowed down). His lords survived until phase-out, though. He never fails his lord's WBB saves. Ever.

My other games have been somewhat more balanced, and I've found it a lot of fun to attack with all deepstriking GK's. Feels very fluffy.

[thecactusman17]

Woah dude, that's about $1200 and you don't even get 150 models.

And frankly, at 6k points, you couldn't even find enough space on the board to deploy by walk-on, much less deepstrike. not unless you had a reason to max out the range on that Deathstrike Missile Launcher. And even then...

[volrath8754]

Woah dude, that's about $1200 and you don't even get 150 models.


exactly...

But as I play SM and DH I fully intend to max out my dev squads near my inquisitors. and on the offensive WOW Gks really could do wonders if only their was a stratagem to make deep strike not so dangerous.

[thecactusman17]

Forward Observer. Models in LOS get to reroll deepstrike. Frankly, if you are having troubles DSing units near enemy lines, and this isn't helping, then ther's really no helping you. I've never had a DS mishap with any of my assaulting DS units though (I think).