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Shas'o Saki
10-06-2011, 10:11 PM
Evening BOLS, the Drunken Master here to break down the Empire's best hacky slashy members, the Kroot. My friends and I really went back to the drawing board with these buggers and in the end a lot was cut. The Fieldcraft rule for example, gone. it's usefulness in any fight was just waaaay too conditional. Also the Krootox has been axed, couldn't find a way to make it work with the Guided Evolution Table, can't see that thing sprouting wings ;). What's left is a streamlined yet very effective unit that can really make a mess of a squad the Tau have been softening up with Pulse fire. Just remember, zilch armor, so be careful what you throw them at.

Kroot Carnivore Squad................80 Points
The Kroot of Pech are one of the Tau Empire’s most invaluable members and also greatest failures. This avian species has been allied with the Tau for centuries and have fought alongside the Fire Warriors against every foe imaginable. Yet despite generations of time to acclimate into Tau society the Kroot stubbornly cling to their traditional ways of life. They still live amongst the treetop villages of their home world, still wear light hunter’s garbs in battle, and most disappointing of all to the Tau, still devour their defeated foes on the battlefield. Despite the Kroot’s lack of cultural assimilation, the Tau rely too heavily on the Kroot as auxiliaries to show any public disapproval of their methods. Kroot fill a natural close combat gap in a Tau army, possessing superior speed and strength to most other species.

Special Rules:
Kroot Hounds- The Kroot’s ability to incorporate DNA from other species into their own has led to some unexpected results in the past. Occasionally a group of Kroot will absorb enough DNA of a specific species that they will evolve into an entirely new life form. The Kroot Hound is one such example of this evolutionary off-shoot, and one of the few the Shaper Council hasn’t ordered exterminated. The Hounds heightened sense of hearing and vision makes them invaluable members of a Carnivore Squad. These aggressive beasts become excited by the sounds and sights of battle, and when an enemy formation charges a Kroot position the warriors holding the Hound’s leashes do not even try to hold them back. Kroot Hounds have the Counter Charge Special Rule. For Roles on the Guided Evolution Chart if a Shaper is present, it is assumed that Kroot Hounds have benefited from the same genetic enhancements as their masters.

STAT LINE
.......................WS...BS...S...T...W...I...A ...LD...SV
Kroot Carnivore: 4......3....4...3...1...5...1....7.....6+
Kroot Alpha: 4......3....4...3....1...5...2....8.....6+
Kroot Hound: 4......-.....4...3...1...6...2....7......-


Unit Comp.
Kroot Alpha and 9 Kroot Carnivores

Special Rules.
* Kroot
* Counter Charge (Kroot Hounds Only)

Unit Type.
Infantry

Wargear.
* Kroot Rifle
* Hunters Garb (Counts as 6+ Armor)
* Claws and Beak (Kroot Hounds)
* Kroot Grenades (Count as Assault Grenades)

Options.
* Add up to 10 additional Kroot Carnivores....7 points per model
* Up to 4 Kroot may exchange their Kroot Rifles for Raptor Talons...5 points
* Add up to 6 Kroot Hounds...............12 points per model
* The Kroot Alpha may exchange his Kroot Rifle With:
- Pulse Carbine...3 points
- Bolas and Hunting Knife...10 points

Wargear:
Bolas and Hunting Knife
In another example of Kroot adapting Tau technology to enhance their traditions, the Bolas is a hunting tool designed to entangle an opponent’s legs. The Kroot have recently replaced the rope connecting the two counterweights with a plasma conductive cable and the weights with Tau plasma generators. Such Bolas are thrown at the enemy during the first few moments of combat. Entangling the Kroot’s chosen target and potential slicing right through him. The Bolas and Hunting Knife count as being armed with two close-combat weapons. In addition the Kroot counts as being armed with a Power Weapon for the first turn of combat.

Raptor Talons
Paying homage to their avian ancestry, Raptor Talon’s are set of vicious daggers fitted to both the hands and feet of a Kroot. The Kroot employ these lethal weapons like a true bird of prey, using their powerful muscles to leap into the air and crash down on their foes for maximum damage. Attacks made by a Kroot with Raptor Talons count as Rending. The Kroot may not however gain the additional attack bonus for being armed with two close-combat weapons.

fuzzbuket
10-07-2011, 12:30 AM
lookin' good :D i like how they are a counter assault unit rather than a melle unit :D

Fellend
10-07-2011, 04:04 AM
So it's a dirt cheap, higher Initiative, power weapon armed, Grenade equiped, counter assaulting, rending, would allocation shennanigans, pulse carbine, super assault unit in tau....

I honestly don't want to pick on your fandex but... the OP just keeps coming.
It also says kroot, can I assume that means that it has infiltrate and fleet as well?


Special Rules:

Kroot- Like all Kroot a Great Knarloc has the Infiltrate and Fleet Special Rules.

I'd exchange my elite assault SM for these guys and save lots of money.
Not to forget of course that they can be combined with a cheap HQ to get


D6.....Effect
1.......Enhanced Agility- Kroot gain the Move Through Cover Special Rule
2.......Expanded Neo-Cortex- Kroot may re-roll all rolls to hit in close combat.
3.......Enlarged Adrenal Glands- Kroot gain the Furious Charge Special Rule
4.......Chameleon Skin-Kroot Gain the Scout and Stealth Special Rules
5.......Adaptive Nervous System- Kroot gain the Feel No Pain Special Rule
6......Vestigal Wings-Kroot now move as Jump Infantry



- Power Weapon and Bolt Pistol..........15 Points
- Flamer.......................................5 Points
- Storm Bolter................................5 Points
- Melta Gun..................................15 Points
- Plasma Gun............................... 20 Points
- Heavy Bolter..............................15 Points
- Missile Launcher..........................20 Points

And the I10 Power weapon with ws 6 and 3 attacks....

Notice that once again. Just like your knarloc entry these guys have half of the USRs in the book and access to to the rest. Also equipable with every weapon in the book. and can switch to jump infantry.

Their statlines are also comparable to units that are cost twice as much points as them but have no special rules and fewer weapon options.

These guys have but one weakness and that's their low armor. But for that price. Well you can just buy more off them.

(Edit I assume that these are troops as well so you can buy 6 of them? and Scoring?)

Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer
10-07-2011, 06:39 AM
A lot of this c&c's in the context of the Kroot Shaper HQ;

"Wings" would probably be better off as an upgrade for Carnivore squads then a d6 from a shaper - from a modeling perspective, there's nothing more frustrating than wanting to model some cool wings onto a squad, but then only have them be functional a sixth of the time! (I have the same issue with Chaos Possessed.) "Invisible" upgrades, like the nymune-organ and such, are okay though.

If you're going to include mercenary wargear, it's probably best to just leave it as part of the standard unit options - throws off balance a bit, otherwise. From a fluff perspective, if the Tau are willing to put up with the Kroot eating the enemy's dead, then they probably wouldn't stop Kroot from looting the enemy's stuff, right? (Plus, humans accepted into the Tau empire are still capable of producing human weaponry.)

Also, Eviscerators seemed to be a fun/popular option in the old Kroot 'dex (and I've seen some fluff mentioning Kroot know how to replicate them, but I don't know if that's just fanon or not), might be worth making those an option too.

LordGrise
10-07-2011, 07:47 AM
In reply to Fellend

Dirt cheap? 80 points base, plus another 70 for the extra carnivores, plus the cost of the Shaper(75 points) in order to get the one-in-six chance of whichever special rule you're looking for... for a bunch of guys with a one-in-six armor save.

Power weapon equipped, yehp - one guy, for one turn only, for a cost of ten points.

Grenade equipped, yehp, - at a cost of I dunno, I couldn't find it. Three points per model for defensive grenades, IIRC, we can go from there. Sixty points at least.

Counter-asaulting, about <DELETED> time

Rending, yehp - up to four models in the (reinfored) unit, at a cost of five points per model

Wound-allocation shenanigans - uhm, where? I don't see that

Pulse carbine, yehp - one guy (the Alpha) at a cost of 3 points, plus, if there is a Shaper present, up to four guys in the (reinforced) unit, at a variable cost depending on the weapons.

Hmm, total that up - 80+70+75+10+(3x20)+20+3+whatever. I make it somewhere north of three hundred ten points with all the bells and whistles. For twenty one models, four of which have heavy weapons, (can't shoot if you move) four of which are melee only, and all of whom armor save on sixes only.

This is OP?

Shas'o Saki
10-07-2011, 08:45 AM
Thanks for the Defense Lord Grise, I think if you guys actually try them out you'll find them to be far from overpowered. Their toughness is less than Space Marines, and their armor is worse than Orcs. They're a great unit to mop-up weakened enemy squads or wreak havoc in a player's rear echelon. But get them out in the open or in combat with a dedicated assault unit and they get ripped apart pretty quick.

Paintraina
10-07-2011, 08:45 AM
I think each guy should cost at least 8 points base.

Because if you compare to an Ork Slugga boy, (6 pts) these guys have assault grenades, which are worth at least 1 point on an I6 critter, and then they also have a much better Init than the Slugga boy. Just one point more than a slugga boy is not quite enough. The best way to determine this is think, hmm, would I rather have these kroot, or an ork slugga boy. I would always pick the kroot if they cost 7 points each.

Shas'o Saki
10-07-2011, 09:33 AM
I think each guy should cost at least 8 points base.

Because if you compare to an Ork Slugga boy, (6 pts) these guys have assault grenades, which are worth at least 1 point on an I6 critter, and then they also have a much better Init than the Slugga boy. Just one point more than a slugga boy is not quite enough. The best way to determine this is think, hmm, would I rather have these kroot, or an ork slugga boy. I would always pick the kroot if they cost 7 points each.

A fair point, but don't forget than an Ork Slugga Boy is tougher, has more attacks, and is also Fearless so long as his mob is intact.

Shas'o Saki
10-07-2011, 09:36 AM
I wouldn't say Pathfinders are broken in the current Codex, but they sure don't make a lot of sense. Why would dudes with primarily heavy weapons be a Fast Attack Choice??? So as you'll see our version of Pathfinders plays much more to their strengths of sittin pretty and sending out little laser lights of death. Also that stupid must take a Devilfish option is gone for good!

Pathfinder Team................65 Points
Fire Warrior’s that show an inclination for scouting and patience often volunteer for duty as a Pathfinder. These specialists form the advance scouts of a Tau force, often observing an enemy position for days, sometimes, weeks. When battle finally commences the Pathfinders strike from their concealed positions, using their markerlights to guide Tau Firepower.

Special Rules:
Forward Observers- Pathfinders are always deployed in advance of a Tau Force where they monitor enemy troop movements, positions, and strength. You may always deploy a squad of Pathfinders on the board at the beginning of the game, even when normal deployment rules would prevent it. Also Pathfinders may be deployed up to 18 inches from your board edge rather than the standard 12.

Holo Blind- Pathfinders obscure their observation posts with sophisticated cloaking fields, designed to render the entire squad invisible to enemy positions. Such field’s are attenuated due to the area of coverage and will collapse if disrupted so Pathfinders take care to choose these locations carefully. A Pathfinder Team that has not moved since the first turn of the game counts as being equipped with a Stealth Field Generator. The unit may fire its markerlights from this position with no effect however any other weaponry fired from the unit will collapse the field rendering them visible.

STAT LINE
........................WS...BS...S...T...W...I... A...LD...SV
Pathfinder Shas’la: 2......3...3...3....1....2...1...7....4+
Pathfinder Shas’ui: 3......3...3...3....1....2...1...8....4+

Unit Comp.
Pathfinder Shas’ui and 3 Pathfinders

Special Rules.
* Forward Observers
* Holo Blind

Unit Type.
Infantry

Wargear.
* Pulse Carbine w. Markerlight
* Tau Carapace Armor
* Photon Grenades (Counts as Defensive)

Options.
* Add up to 4 Additional Pathfinders....15 points per model
* Up to 3 Pathfinders may replace their Pulse Carbine & Markerlight with:
- Pulse Carbine & Markerlight w. Built in Target Lock...10 points
- Rail Rifle...10 Points
* The Shas'ui may replace his Pulse Carbine & Markerlight with:
- Pulse Carbine w. Networked Markerlight...5 Points
- Iridium Rifle...15 Points
* The Shas’ui may take any of the following Wargear:
- Bonding Knife...10 points
- Done Control Unit and Trauma-Drone...15 points
- Drone Control Unit and two Gun Drones...20 points

Wargear:
Bonding Knife
The ritual of Ta’lissera is a common practice among Fire Warriors and the bonding knife is the ceremonial blade used to mark each warrior. Meant to instill a deep sense of brotherhood upon a particular squad, such warriors will not wish to look weak in front of their bond brothers and will rally to face the enemy even under extreme conditions. A squad equipped with a Bonding Knife may attempt to rally even if there is an enemy unit within 6 inches.

Iridium Rifle
Range Strength AP Type
36 7 3 Heavy 1
Developed following engagement with Hive Fleet Gorgon, the Iridium Rifle is an upgraded Rail Rifle designed specifically to eliminate the monstrous creatures the Tau encountered while fighting the Tyranids. The rifles are equipped with special rounds tipped with acid-etched iridium points. These specialized tips allows it to penetrate deep into its target while the warhead inside can be programmed by the operator to detonate several seconds after impact, causing massive internal damage. Any unsaved wound taken by a shot from an Iridium Rifle inflicts D3 wounds on the chosen model.

DrLove42
10-07-2011, 10:03 AM
Wait a second....they're BS2?

Current pathfinders suck for 2 reasons - They have to buy a Transport AND they're the only decent way of getting markerlights into an army and they miss a lot

So you've fixed one problem and made the other worse.

I like the idea of holocloaks, but think they should have stealth as well. And probably inflitrate.

I always see Pathfinders are Marine Force Recon. First in, their job is to guide incoming troops and mark key targets, killing dudes as a secondary goal. So in Tau form, giving increased accuracy to suit deepstrikes, and improving accuracy of broadsides, hammerheads and firewarriors

Fellend
10-07-2011, 10:17 AM
Compared to the others, I like this one. I agree however that I 2 is to low, you mean to say that these FF-Recon is worse than your average guardsman? On par with an Ork?
The Iridium rifle is way to overpower for just 15 points. Either up the points or lower the damage/AP.
Compare the cost to the the plasmagun and notice the power level (sure it's heavy, but these guys aren't going to move anyway)

Fellend
10-07-2011, 10:31 AM
In reply to Fellend

Dirt cheap? 80 points base, plus another 70 for the extra carnivores, plus the cost of the Shaper(75 points) in order to get the one-in-six chance of whichever special rule you're looking for... for a bunch of guys with a one-in-six armor save.

Power weapon equipped, yehp - one guy, for one turn only, for a cost of ten points.

Grenade equipped, yehp, - at a cost of I dunno, I couldn't find it. Three points per model for defensive grenades, IIRC, we can go from there. Sixty points at least.

Counter-asaulting, about <DELETED> time

Rending, yehp - up to four models in the (reinfored) unit, at a cost of five points per model

Wound-allocation shenanigans - uhm, where? I don't see that

Pulse carbine, yehp - one guy (the Alpha) at a cost of 3 points, plus, if there is a Shaper present, up to four guys in the (reinforced) unit, at a variable cost depending on the weapons.

Hmm, total that up - 80+70+75+10+(3x20)+20+3+whatever. I make it somewhere north of three hundred ten points with all the bells and whistles. For twenty one models, four of which have heavy weapons, (can't shoot if you move) four of which are melee only, and all of whom armor save on sixes only.

This is OP?

Considering this unit will butcher say ten assault marines with power weapon/power fist plasma pistols and meltabombs (I play BT) which is 240-60 points. Yeah... they are really cheap.
And oh no, they have no armor save... because in fifth edition getting a four plus cover save is incredibly hard... especially if you have a giant gnarloc with 8 shapers ahead of them
Or if they outflank... they aren't not to mention that they have FLEET so they can run and assault

We are talking about 4 rending, 1 power weapon + 1 with alot of extra attacks (shaper)

Counter assault in itself is not so bad. I think it's a good boost for them. It's in combination with every other USR in the book which makes it a bit weird

Wound allocation shennanigans: with karnivorse, hounds, alpha and a shaper... and possible to equip with every weapon in both SM and the new ones.... yeah, you can mess around with the wounds.

PulseCarbine See answer to counter assault.

This is a troop with access to every USR, Every weapon, can be good in everything, costs only 8 points.
Now if this was an Elite unit with maybe 10 points per kroot, I'd still say it has to much stuff but okay.

The biggest problem is see with this one and every other entry in the fan dex is that every unit has at least 3 USRs and on top of that at least 1 extra special ability and access to build it as anti assault, antitank, antiwhatever. There's little tradeback for anything.

Uncle Nutsy
10-07-2011, 05:50 PM
I'm sorry but... there is no way i'd field this unit.

the ballistic skill is WAY too low, and the point costs are too high. Infiltrate is also needed.

for "forward observers", these guys aren't very "observant".

Shas'o Saki
10-09-2011, 11:02 AM
I'm sorry but... there is no way i'd field this unit.

the ballistic skill is WAY too low, and the point costs are too high. Infiltrate is also needed.

for "forward observers", these guys aren't very "observant".

Accident in the Sheet, they're supposed to be BS 3, WS 2.

Anggul
11-01-2011, 02:14 PM
I'd lower the Initiative of the Kroot and Hounds by 1. I agree that I3 is a bit slow and having them striking before guardsmen would be fine, but they are most certainly not as quick as an Eldar, and a hound isn't as quick as a genestealer.

I4 for Kroot, I5 for Hounds I think. I'd skip out the bolas power weapon thing, just stick to combat weapons and kroot rifles.