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RocketRollRebel
09-10-2009, 01:41 AM
Hey there everyone. I've been flipping through the army book quite a bit considering possibly making a High Elf army but my question is what do you think is their best core choice? Part of me looks at the bargain that spearmen are and I see some potential for blocks of them acting as a nice anvil unit. The other unit I've been looking into is SeaGuard. They are a bit more but seem to be able to do the same job as the spearmen with shooting thrown in. My biggest down side is tho that they cost just 2 pts less than the special choices (after u give them shields). So are they really a great all rounder unit or are you better off going with a bargain unit like spearmen and using the points elsewhere?

Thanks!

deadmanwade
09-10-2009, 04:02 AM
I've had mixed luck with seaguard. They usually do ok, but not any better than the other two choices to be honest. If you're using them as spearmen then you'll need a nice big square block of them so you're only going to be firing a couple of bows a turn. If you use them as archers you'll only get 1 rank bonus if you take a charge. For the points you pay you're better with a specialised unit I think. I only break them out in bigger games.

MUMBLES
09-10-2009, 07:13 AM
Those spearmen are irritating. Nothing is more disheartening than charging 20 wussy elves and getting 15 attacks at you before you even get to strike. My vote is for the spearmen.

the drake
09-10-2009, 04:21 PM
I also have had mixed luck with seaguard. I had a unit once flee from some minatours, regroup and then when the minatours charged the next turn their stand and shoot did enough wounds to finish off one and kill another causing the unit to panic and run (I had regrouped them in a long line 9 wide). I usually just go with archers though as my main battle line consist of a block of phoenix guard ~20, two blocks of white lions (18 and 12) and 2 lion chariots. I like to set up around a hill with 2 rbt and add in those archers and theres 2250 (with chars and whatnot). Its a compact army and it struggles with my usually horrible deployment (which to this day still baffles me...theres not that many units to set up).

Going back to seaguard though, I once heard of someone using nothing but seaguard in a 2250 point game. thats a lot of elves. I also read somewhere, and I agree with this statement, that seaguard are an upgrade for archers not spears. they only cost 1 point more, you lose range, but gain the spears and shields and combat-y-ness. I don't know if that ramble helped any.

j-orge-287
09-11-2009, 10:04 AM
A small unit of sea guard-10 is a good number-and a larger unit of spearmen is a good idea. You march up to the enemy with the sea guard far enough behind to support but not that they both flee at once. This works like the empire detachment tactics in planetstrike white dwarf.

gcsmith
10-24-2009, 02:48 AM
Ive researched it and for a local tourn trip to warhammer HQ im taking 10 seaguard and sos my partner (1 troop each). I found a Grand tourn winning list which only has seaguard because with HE u need multiple roles. so i guess they are good

Kloud
10-24-2009, 07:07 PM
I usually just take archers, an plant em on hill for my core choices. The spearmen are really a lousy choice at all even though they are cheaper.

The Archers with their 30" range, an parked on a hill, will dish out 10 strength 3 attacks every turn, right from turn 1.

10 spearmen will generate 10 strength 3 attacks, only if they get into combat. if you invest in a third rank, and command, you only generate 16 strength 3 attacks in close combat, but you are now a more expensive choice than your archers. Also, hardly anybody is fool enough to charge into the front of a spearmen unit, and with the small number of units compared to your oppenent, it is more likely your spearmen will eventually be flanked.

Seaguard, are basicly archers that can take a little bit of a hit, and stand up a little better in close combat. But that little bit of armour they now have, is often negated by higher strength attacks, and the numerous Armour piercing weapons out there.

However, do not forget, that ALL the ranks behind the first, can shoot at "Large Targets". (seaguard are fantastic Giant killers.)

Also check into it, but all the ranks might be able to shoot at a unit up on a hill as well.

cypher623
02-15-2010, 11:08 PM
seaguard are very versatile. they are great against flyers, great for guarding warmachines. Thier 4+ save in cc is fantastic against light cav; skirmishers. Run them in units of 10, spread them out when u want to shoot, block them up if you want them to fight. hand down better than the other two core choices.

j-orge-287
02-21-2010, 10:32 AM
They only get 4+ save if they use hand weapons instead of spears. In units of 10 thats only 6 attacks when it could be 11 even after charging which is good against lightly armoured cavalry.

Kloud
07-01-2010, 05:31 AM
I'm thinking the 8th Edition Rules might put Seaguard into a whole new level of awesome.

RocketRollRebel
07-01-2010, 10:39 PM
I'm thinking the 8th Edition Rules might put Seaguard into a whole new level of awesome.

wow back from the dead! (I ended up with a Beastmen army anyway:p) But yeah I was thinking the same thing with the new rules.

Freefall945
07-03-2010, 02:30 AM
Yes indeed. The 50 sea-guard mondo block (which, in 8th, means everyone attacks. Strike in 2 ranks as basic, 3 for spears, 4 for elf spears, 5 for being a ten-wide swarm) has seen some popularity as an option by 8th ed speculators. What would one use to protect the vulnerable flanks of such a juggernaught?

...How about two units of 20 sea-guard?

Ulf
07-03-2010, 05:24 PM
A Seaguard horde of 50 would slaughter the Khorne-Marauder horde which was theorized somewhere else. With 51 Attacks, re-roll to hit (thanks to ASF and higher initiative) the Seaguard obliterates everything that is neither heavily armed nor blessed with good toughness - not even taking their bows into account.

Yea, they cost more than twice the points a marauder costs, but I can see them being worth at least three times as much.

Just saw that there is a new spell that allows units to use their morale value instead of strength when rolling to wound. LOL.

Fr05ty
07-03-2010, 09:17 PM
Add to those 51 attacks with re-roll the ability to cast them Wissan's Wildforce, the Flaming Sword of Rhuin, Enchanted Blades of Aiban, Harmonic Convergence, or The Withering, Soulblight and those 51 attacks will down anything, nevermind those MoK Marauders, 51 attacks at Strength 3 re-rolling to hit, to wound and with armour piercing are powerful enough, and that isn't even the most powerful combination, 50 Seaguard and a wizard will project quite a lot of threat but will be deadly at any range...

By comparison, with the Enchanted Blades of Aiban cast on them, the Seaguard would kill ~20 MoK Marauders at long range and ~24 at short range, and that is just with the volley in a single shooting phase, you could kill them all in 2 rounds of shooting and if you consider close combat... well, it gets even worse for the marauders, holding and shooting would mean that the Seaguard could easily take care of 3 units of 50 MoK Marauders per 6 turns

Kieranator K82
07-04-2010, 03:36 AM
GW's own Adam Troke seems to like Sea Guard. In this month's WD (367), one of the featured army lists uses:
- 50 Sea Guard with shields, musician, Sea Master and a standard bearer with the Lion Standard
- Two units of 20 Sea Guard with shields, musician, Sea Master and standard bearer
That forms the core of a 2500pt army dubbed "Alith Anar's Coastal Patrol."

Fr05ty
07-04-2010, 12:12 PM
Yeah, Alith Anar is a good leader for the Seaguard, and if it could be done again, the Storm of Chaos Border Patrol being led by Aislinn would make a deadly army with the new Seaguard rules. A free shot at the beginning of the game would be great...

bryce963
07-12-2010, 03:20 PM
Seaguard look awesome under the new rules, and one huge unit is enough to fill your core requirement. They can get 51 attacks, re-rolled, and 35 shots with the volley rules.

Drakkan Vael
09-03-2010, 03:59 AM
"Horde" sized blocks of infantry are nice but do not forget that those 51 attacks are partly wasted if the enemy unit is considerably smaller, say 5 wide. In that case you'll only get 36. (7 fighters in the front rank and only the ones behind the engaged members (base contact) of the unit in the other ranks will get any supportive attacks. p. 48, 49 rulebook)

Second: You'll only get steadfast if you've got more ranks than your enemy. Smaller front size often comes with more ranks behind (p.54). In the above case a smaller unit might not only survive combat but may even win if they are tough and/or heavily armoured and your large infantry block might be forced to flee.

Do not overestimate horde-units.
I play high elves by the way.

Drachenprinzen
02-05-2011, 11:49 AM
I regularly take a block of 20 LSG and have had mixed results, but I like their versatility compared to spearmen. With a 5x4 regiment and the volley rules, you have 16 shots (only 10 on a stand and shoot). Of course being high elves, if you somehow conjoined these with the high magic spell curse of arrow attraction, the enemy gets thinned out before ever reaching your spearmen with 21 attacks with ASF.

Bean
02-10-2011, 10:51 PM
I'm thinking the 8th Edition Rules might put Seaguard into a whole new level of awesome.

I'm inclined to agree. As's discussed elsewhere in the thread, the 50-man seaguard unit, with the new reform and horde rules, is actually a very strong core choice.

Bolstered by an arch-mage or Teclis, a BSB, and backed up by repeater bolt throwers, Shadow Warriors, Reavers, and Dragon Princes (or other units that aggressively protect your flanks) can function as a very strong army, putting out a lot of good shots, good supporting magic, and a hard combat core.

Actually, White Lions are probably a good flank-anchoring unit. Somewhat more resilient to shooting than Swordmasters, significantly better damage than Phoenix guard, their Stubborn and Woodsmen abilities are also useful, since they make them better in small units and better on the flanks (where they're more likely to have to contend with forests.)