Gate of infinity in close combat

[stormravensV]

I had a question in a game last night were I used the gate power to pull a sterngaurd squad out of closecombat. Im just not sure it was legal we went with it for the game but Im just looking for some clarification. Thanks

[Nabterayl]

I don't see why it wouldn't be. Models locked in close combat still get a Movement phase; there just isn't much that they can do during it. You don't skip over the Movement phase entirely, though (similarly, you don't skip the Shooting phase, either, which is why you can use powers like Nurgle's Rot even when locked in close combat). So if you have a special rule that says something happens at the start of a Movement phase, like Gate of Infinity, you can still use it. Nothing about being locked in close combat inherently prevents you from leaving the board.

[Jwolf]

INAT clarifies as no; I don't see that as a clarification, but I'd accept that as a reasonable rules change, for balance.

[Exitus Acta Probat]

When I was TO at my local shop, we had a LOOOONG RAW train discussing this.

We finally came to the conclusion that, by RAW, we cannot be certain model removal counts as technical movement. As this was the case, we chose to follow precedents.
All such precedents (the old SW power, Necron Veil) allowed for it.
Thought those rules specifically stated they allowed it. No one was ever 100% satisfied with the end result, but there were fewer solid arguments against than for it.

Until GW FAQ's it specifically, it's just one of those 'things' that have to be handled locally.
I would dig up the chain and point it out to you if you would like.

[Levitas]

When I was TO at my local shop, we had a LOOOONG RAW train discussing this.

We finally came to the conclusion that, by RAW, we cannot be certain model removal counts as technical movement. As this was the case, we chose to follow precedents.
All such precedents (the old SW power, Necron Veil) allowed for it.
Thought those rules specifically stated they allowed it. No one was ever 100% satisfied with the end result, but there were fewer solid arguments against than for it.

Until GW FAQ's it specifically, it's just one of those 'things' that have to be handled locally.
I would dig up the chain and point it out to you if you would like.

Man, I remember that. Made we want to jump up and down on my plastic librarian.

I say they can. But lets face it, most times the librarian gets smacked in combat before he can get out of dodge. I just ask my opponents view on it before the game. Then watch as he keeps all units away from said Librarian... :rolleyes:

[Exitus Acta Probat]

Man, I remember that. Made we want to jump up and down on my plastic librarian.

I say they can. But lets face it, most times the librarian gets smacked in combat before he can get out of dodge. I just ask my opponents view on it before the game. Then watch as he keeps all units away from said Librarian... :rolleyes:

ROFL...I just found the links to the 3 pertinent threads that this spawned. :)


Yeah, I just went back through them...I really think we had the right of it saying that you could port out.

[SeattleDV8]

The question comes down to, is removing the models and replacing them with the deep strike rules Movement ?

If it is not movement nothing stops the power.

If it is movement, models locked in CC are not allowed to move except for pile-in etc.
The GoI rules do not mention CC and so would be disallowed from use in CC.

It is a grey area, I believe it is movement and so disallowed.
I also understand that neither side has a clear RAW.

[Exitus Acta Probat]

The question comes down to, is removing the models and replacing them with the deep strike rules Movement ?

If it is not movement nothing stops the power.

If it is movement, models locked in CC are not allowed to move except for pile-in etc.
The GoI rules do not mention CC and so would be disallowed from use in CC.

It is a grey area, I believe it is movement and so disallowed.
I also understand that neither side has a clear RAW.


That was the crux of the whole thing. We broke it down, and generally came to the consensus that 'removal' (in regards to this) is simply a mechanic, not defined under the rules as part of the turn whereas 'movement' represents point a to b travel that interacts with its environment (either beginning, path or end).
As deep strike is movement, we had to determine if we COULD separate the DS from the GOI.
If GOI isn't the DS, and the only part of GOI that is clearly defined as movement is the DS (think a little bit like a logic statement, or venn diagram) then the whole of GOI is not movement.

Needless to say, there was a week or so of cursing, screaming and gnashing of teeth...it was a really fun debate.

[therealjohnny5]

did some online research (God bless google) and on a different forum some guy said he had emailed GW's rules guys and had posted the reply that it was a legit use of GOI. My FLGS managers have told me the same but the guys in my club are rule ****'s so wanted to "see it in writing." after i spanked his entire FNP, 2+ save, 4+ invul, high toughness, Tau command squad. But it was really overkill, 10 Th\SS\LC Termies, Tem Librarian, and 10 Assault Marines...they never stood a chance. Anyway after which he assaulted me with a bunch of shield drones and i GOI'd it to the bastion to try and win the PS game. that's where the debated came up...sorry to digress....

[EmperorEternalXIX]

Honestly, while I'd like a concrete resolution, I will err on the side of "yes" ... and I will do so purely under the guise that it seems a million other crazy things are being added to the game that are 10x more game-affecting than this. I can't imagine they really wanted to restrict the power that much...especially since the Librarian himself has almost no legitimate ranged weaponry options and would never be able to assault using the power. But then again that is Matt Ward's thing: Make a unit, make it not that good, then give it a bunch of special rules that counteract each other.

That aside, the rules are pretty clear: GOI says pick a unit and deep strike it somewhere else. The debate about whether the power is movement or whatever other justifications there are are really just rules lawyering in hopes of making it worse than it is, and to me that is nothing more than an easter egg hunt that players do against my codex instead of for it.

[blitzme99]

We also called them and they confirmed that yes, in the movement phase, you can remove them from the table, additionally, you can still assault that turn as well, so if I remove them, and place them 6 inches away, i can assault that squad again, and get my bonuses.

[SeattleDV8]

Ouch, thats so wrong it hurts...lol and shows the lack of understanding of whoever answered your question.
C:SM pg.57 "...within 24" using the Deep Strike rules......"
BRB pg. 95 "In that turn's Assault phase, however, these units may not launch an assault (even if they have the 'fleet' special rule)"
It is unclear if you may use GoI in CC, It is very clear you may not assault after using it.

[Cryl]

Absolutely, SeattleDV8 is right, there's no way you can assault after GOI, it's clearly a deepstrike. I've always used it to move from CC and can't see why that ruling wouldn't be allowed tbh.

[krispy]

okay GOI doesnt allow assault - fair enough - but what if you have vanguard veterans who have a rule that allows Assault after Deep strike - and you want to GOI 5 " away and then assault the enemies? would that be allowed?

the vanguard veterans could use the ""Heroic intervention" rule no?

/k

[Cryl]

okay GOI doesnt allow assault - fair enough - but what if you have vanguard veterans who have a rule that allows Assault after Deep strike - and you want to GOI 5 " away and then assault the enemies? would that be allowed?

the vanguard veterans could use the ""Heroic intervention" rule no?

/k

Actually they couldn't. Unfortunately it says in the rule that they can't use heroic intervention if they're joined by a character... shame 'cos it'd make them almost worth their massive points cost if they could!

[sorienor]

There are 2 issues with GoI, first being able to gate out of CC and also what happens on a mishap.

The way I see it is any other time a special power or psychic ability allows you to leave combat it is specifically said it does or says what happens to the opponent when you do (skyleap, 'ere we go). Since GoI does not have those stipulations I don't think it is intended to be used out of close combat.

[person person]

Thats what I'm thinking too.