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View Full Version : What build of IG Sentinels is better for flanking?



ddsa86
09-17-2009, 06:58 AM
What is the best weapon for a Scout Sentinel and is the scout squad good for flanking or is the armored Sentinel Squad better?

Lord Azaghul
09-17-2009, 07:20 AM
The armour sentinal is great for assults, but for the price of a chimera I'm not sure how I feel about it.

For out flanking I have two builds that I enjoy I usually run then in a sqaudron of 2 : mutli laser/HF or Missle L/Missile Launcher/

If I take the 2nd set up I find it worth while to tact on the Hunter Seeker Missles - especially if theres a nice skimmer or side armour that still need breaking

Lord Silver
09-17-2009, 08:39 AM
I've been running 3 AC/HK on my scouts. they usually only last the turn they drop in, but for 150 points I don't have a huge investment in them, and they tend to kill whatever they come across as soon as they flank in and blast away at some rear armor.

George Labour
09-17-2009, 09:32 AM
When I use my scout sentinels I keep them cheap and leave them with the multi laser. While sometimes the Heavy flamer would have been betterfor clearing backfield base holders off, that 15 points can be put to use elsewhere on my line infantry who have to hold up against my opponent, while the sentinels may or may not show up on time, and even then they may end up on the wrong side of the board.

Since they'll usually be shooting at something in cover, and maybe have to shoot across the board the larger amount of dice usually wins out over stronger but fewer shots. Most vehicles rear armor is still scared by strength 6, and their AP 6 now so theydon't suffer any extra penalties.

Lately though I've been only using armoured sentinels with autocannons in my force, though I try to squeeze in plasma cannons if I can. My other FA slots are usually taken up by valkyries/vendettas, but that one squad of sentinels can hunt light vehicles, infantry, and even act as a tarpit against many close assault squads. Hell I've even had them beat an Orc warboss to death in one game.

Though honestly, whenever I get my hands on a hellhound/banewolf I may drop sentinels entirely. BUt then I love the darn things so much I have 14 of them, so who knows.

ddsa86
09-17-2009, 11:54 AM
Thanks

Bull:)

SandWyrm
09-21-2009, 02:46 PM
Autocannons all the way!

I've done enough test rolls to know that ACs are only about 5% less effective than Lascannons at killing AV11/AV12, which is what I need my Sentinels for. While being *much* better vs. MCs and things like Tyrannid Warriors.

For the same points it would take to upgrade to Lascannons from Autocannons, you can take HK missiles and do 15-20% better than lascannons on your first turn of shooting vs. Rhinos and Chimeras. While being only 5% less effective in your second turn. By turn 3, my Sentinels are usually dead anyhow. :)

Axel
09-21-2009, 09:47 PM
Probably I'm just being inefficient, but for Sentinels designed for outflanking I won't go anywhere other than a Lascannon or Multilaser. Often a HK missile is tacked on regardless of the primary weapon, along with a wing-man equipped the same.

Honestly, if you're shooting a transport up the bum you might as well (normally) shoot the front, the AV isn't that different. Besides which, by Turn 2 or 3 most transports have either done their job or are dead. Shooting battle tanks like Vindicators, Leman Russ and the like is where your opponent has metaphorically dropped the soap. A lascannon here is useful, if overkill. It also allows you to make all sorts of dodgy jokes about "I see your schwartz is bigger than mine" and so on and so forth.

Armoured Sentinels should be used independently in my opinion, since they come equipped with Extra Armour as standard. Autocannons or other multi-purpose weapons (ie not heavy flamers or lascannons) work best for me. Ultimately they often end up as either a tarpit unit or mobile cover for a command squad.

SandWyrm
09-22-2009, 01:06 PM
Probably I'm just being inefficient, but for Sentinels designed for outflanking I won't go anywhere other than a Lascannon or Multilaser. Often a HK missile is tacked on regardless of the primary weapon, along with a wing-man equipped the same.

I tested this out recently with dice rolls (20 attack rolls per test, 120 rolls total). Here's my results, where success is measured as the ability to stop the transport:

Shooting at Rhinos (AV11):

3 Autocannons: 75% (5% stunned, 10% immobilized, 60% w/d)
3 Lascannons: 80% (10% stunned, 30% immobilized, 40% w/d)
3 ACs + 3 HKs: 100% (10% stunned, 30% immobilized, 60% w/d)

Shooting at Chimeras (AV12):

3 Autocannons: 45% (10% stunned, 15% immobilized, 20% w/d)
3 Lascannons: 50% (20% stunned, 15% immobilized, 15% w/d)
3 ACs + 3 HKs: 60% (20% stunned, 15% immobilized, 25% w/d)

For 30 points more, Lascannons give you a slight edge in stopping power, while being much worse in actually destroying the transport (fewer rolls on the damage table). For the same points as lascannons, ACs + HKs do much better during the first 2 turns, which is what counts the most in stopping a Mechanized advance.

The chances, BTW, of killing AV14 with a Lascannon is about 3-4%. So I don't even bother using anything but Melta or Ordnance against them.

Nabterayl
09-22-2009, 01:35 PM
I tested this out recently with dice rolls (20 attack rolls per test, 120 rolls total). Here's my results, where success is measured as the ability to stop the transport:

Shooting at Rhinos (AV11):

3 Autocannons: 75% (5% stunned, 10% immobilized, 60% w/d)
3 Lascannons: 80% (10% stunned, 30% immobilized, 40% w/d)
3 ACs + 3 HKs: 100% (10% stunned, 30% immobilized, 60% w/d)

Shooting at Chimeras (AV12):

3 Autocannons: 45% (10% stunned, 15% immobilized, 20% w/d)
3 Lascannons: 50% (20% stunned, 15% immobilized, 15% w/d)
3 ACs + 3 HKs: 60% (20% stunned, 15% immobilized, 25% w/d)

For 30 points more, Lascannons give you a slight edge in stopping power, while being much worse in actually destroying the transport (fewer rolls on the damage table). For the same points as lascannons, ACs + HKs do much better during the first 2 turns, which is what counts the most in stopping a Mechanized advance.

The chances, BTW, of killing AV14 with a Lascannon is about 3-4%. So I don't even bother using anything but Melta or Ordnance against them.

If you're curious, the statistically expected chance to kill or immobilize a transport at BS3 is:

Rhinos (AV11):
Multilaser: 20.4%
Autocannon: 18.5%
HK Missile: 13.9%
Lascannon: 18.1%
Chimera Fronts (AV12):
Multilaser: 5.4%
Autocannon: 10.8%
HK Missile: 9.7%
Lascannon: 13.9%
Chimera Sides (AV10):
Multilaser: 33.6%
Autocannon: 25.9%
HK Missile: 18.1%
Lascannon: 22.2%
Take-home: multi-lasers are the weapon of choice for AV11 and below; for AV12 and up go with autocannon or lascannon, if you've got the points for it.

Glocknal
09-22-2009, 01:46 PM
Math Hammer aside, I'd take the HKs+Multi for outflanking. You shoul dbe able to get decent shots at side/rear armor provided you bring an astropath. The extra shot is key because your sentinals will quicly come under fire and you want to make the most of your chance.

Nabterayl
09-22-2009, 02:12 PM
Math Hammer aside, I'd take the HKs+Multi for outflanking. You shoul dbe able to get decent shots at side/rear armor provided you bring an astropath. The extra shot is key because your sentinals will quicly come under fire and you want to make the most of your chance.

Math Hammer not aside, that is the mathematically optimal loadout for flank/rear shots, at least against most transports ;)

SandWyrm
09-22-2009, 08:55 PM
If you're curious, the statistically expected chance to kill or immobilize a transport at BS3 is:

Thanks for that. I found it interesting. Though I'd probably stick with ACs, as I tend to set up in cover and shoot up front armor more than I outflank these days.

j-orge-287
09-23-2009, 12:57 AM
Autocannons are good for breaking most vehicles at the side or hurting units of infantry.
I use missile launchers for their versatility though

Snarf
10-06-2009, 03:07 PM
And Flamers? why does nobody use them?

Melissia
10-06-2009, 03:16 PM
For assaults, heavy flamer sentinels of either variety. Scouts are more vulnerable, but able to do things like attack heavy weapons teams, while armored sentinels are more easilly able to go toe to toe with assaulters.


For flanking anti-tank, multilaser or autocannon scouts to attack from behind.


For a mobile firing platform? Anything on an armored sentinel.


I love plascan armored sentinels. Plasma cannons that don't overheat-- hell yeah.

gwensdad
10-06-2009, 03:22 PM
I've got some ancient sentinels with multi-lasers that have been OK for flanking, depending on if they arrive on the correct side of the table. I've also modeled some with HK missles for a little extra surprise against the rear armor of most vehicles.

ColCorbane
10-06-2009, 03:30 PM
My three sentinels are equipped with LC's. They were originally designed for dedicated antiarmour in my mech stormtrooper force.

In all honestly, they're crap, but now I have a vanquisher :D

SandWyrm
10-06-2009, 09:22 PM
And Flamers? why does nobody use them?

Because Hellhounds and Chimeras do that job better. Sentinels just don't have the speed or the armor needed to close with the enemy. They'll also get stuck in combat, whereas a HH or Chimera can just back up and flame the enemy again.

SandWyrm
10-06-2009, 09:26 PM
My three sentinels are equipped with LC's. They were originally designed for dedicated antiarmour in my mech stormtrooper force.

In all honestly, they're crap, but now I have a vanquisher :D

Yeah, I converted mine that way too, but these days I just say they're autocannons. ACs are almost as good as Lascannons at stopping transports, while not only being cheaper, but also much more likely to wreck or blow up said transport due to the larger number of dice rolled on the damage chart. Lascannons are more likely to simply immobilize or stun the target.

TSINI
10-07-2009, 06:32 AM
I personally don't outflank my sentinels

but I can let you in on a little tactic my friend came up with - it was VERY successfull in our recent tournament (though our other tactics weren't but nevermind)

armoured sentinels are amazing at holding up squads of enemy infantry.
1 single armoured sentinel can hold up any bloodthirsty berserkers or equivalents for an entire game. its armour 12, as a walker the enemy must strike the front armour, so they need at least a str6 weapon in combat to do anything. everyone knows that the single powerfist in squads hardly ever does anything when it counts :D

Lord Azaghul
10-07-2009, 06:37 AM
If you're taking armour sentinals you can't out flank in any case, But I agree they are fantastic in an assult.

For outflanking, and the way I like to play, multilaser seem like the best set up for me. Mainly because I build my army to kill MEQ: LC and MisL only have one shot, and the autocannons don't pierce their armour - so a go with a high volume of shots.

A combo I do enjoy running is Multilase/HF - the problem is your either in a situation where you want 2 HF or 2 Mutll!

SandWyrm
10-07-2009, 09:58 PM
I personally don't outflank my sentinels

but I can let you in on a little tactic my friend came up with - it was VERY successfull in our recent tournament (though our other tactics weren't but nevermind)

armoured sentinels are amazing at holding up squads of enemy infantry.
1 single armoured sentinel can hold up any bloodthirsty berserkers or equivalents for an entire game. its armour 12, as a walker the enemy must strike the front armour, so they need at least a str6 weapon in combat to do anything. everyone knows that the single powerfist in squads hardly ever does anything when it counts :D

Scout Sentinels are amazing at blocking assaulters too. I favor them a bit over the Armored Sentinels because I can take 3 Scouts for the same cost as 2 Armored. Those extra shots count for a lot during the early part of the game. And even without the extra armor, their tarpit potential is still quite good.

For instance, I take 3 Scout Sentinels, but usually deploy them normally in cover and move them as needed for the best shots. They're almost guaranteed to pop a transport on turns one and two. After that, I try and get them into combat with whatever nasties I don't want to tangle with yet. They usually hold up an assault squad for 2-3 turns. Which is plenty of time for me to mop up everything else. And if I'm really having a good day, they'll win the combat and run a unit down. I did that to a Sister of Battle squad a couple of games ago and you should have seen the look on my buddy's face. :)

Another tactic that I found very useful during one of my 'Ard Boyz games against 'Nids was to deploy the Scout Sentinels on my right flank and use a Master of the Fleet to force my opponent's Genestealers to outflank onto the same side as the Sentinels. That little trick kept 2 units of Stealers off of my back for 3 turns!