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crazyzombie
09-18-2009, 01:58 PM
So we all know about the rise of chapter specific HQs in the new marine dex, but my question concerns the Utramarines HQs. Are any of them worth there points? Any tactics that revole around them? Shout out what you think.

DarkLink
09-18-2009, 02:45 PM
The Ultramarines characters tend to be the uber-powerful (and thus uber-expensive) special characters. So if you have the points, they can be very good, but for the most part the other special characters are a better deal. The Ultramarines have some rather good special rules (reroll reserve rolls, pick and choose pass or fails on morale tests, etc) but for the most part i'd go with the cheaper characters. In particular, I'd stick with Lysander over Calgar, though God of War is pretty awesome.

Craz
09-18-2009, 10:43 PM
Captain Sicarius, for 200 points, is a pretty awesome. He is the only way to make your marines ld10, he gives a special rule to one tac squad(which can help greatly), and he makes a great IC to lead shooty terminators(in my opinion). I stick him in a Land Raider with a squad of terminators.

Limunpai
09-18-2009, 11:17 PM
Cassius is a T6 chaplain with a 4+ Invulnerable, FNP, and a master-crafted combi-flamer with hellfire rounds for the low low price of 125 points. Use him like any other chaplain by attaching to an assaulty squad and having at it.

Ming
09-22-2009, 06:55 PM
As an Ultramarine afficionado:

Calgar for terminator and sternguard/vanguard megabuilds. 2000 points and higher.

Sicarius for 2nd Co. builds, players who split their army between assault and defense. All around great choice.

Tiggy - for anything, especially where you need hooded protection and ability to do your own spells. 1850 or larger.

Cassius - supporting character, more flavor than help.

Chronus - not used often, but great for players who have unlucky dice!

The Sniper - Nice in any list where you have a scout squad and tall terrain. This guy needs a tower to hide in, not ground level stuff.

mercer
09-23-2009, 05:18 AM
Calgaris the same price as a Land Raider, throw in terminator armour and costs more! I don't think the model adds a lot to the army besides choosing to pass all tests models are called on. 250 points for that and two power fists is a lot.


I don't really rate Sicaruis. The model rules don't give anything to the army really, and re-roll sieze the inititive isn't brilliant, could have been -1 or -2 on sieze inititive roll. What else does he have besides a cool sword? Not a lot. Sure he can make all your marines ld10, but all elites are already ld 10 and sgts are ld9 anyway. Ok he can give a funky special rule to one tactical squad unit, but tanks hunter isn't going to help much as only have one special weap and one heavy weap, counter-attack, well tact squads aren't the best in assault, infilitrate and scout could allow them to outflank. Really, I don't rate Sicarius too much and I don't think he gives much to the army.

Chaplain Cassisus is the nuts for 125 points, but T6 in a T4 unit and majority toughness rules - bye bye T6! :( . So, perhaps Cassisus isn't all that worth it.

Tiguriius sounds alright.

50 points to upgrade to Telion seems ok, nice super long range bolter and can lend his BS skill too.

I think Chronus is a bit over costed. Ok gives BS5 and ignores crew stunned and shaken, but daemonic possession can do that for 20 ponits so BS5 is costing 50 points!

If any I'd take Telion, possibly Cassius.

Cryl
09-23-2009, 07:07 AM
I'm a fan of Tiggy. The ability to reroll reserves means he's a god send in an all pod or reserve heavy army, you can even reroll sucessful rolls so if you don't need those termies just yet there's a chance to keep them off the board. The 3 psychic powers a turn means you can give your sternguard a 5++ then gate them somewhere and either join in the shooting or put up a null zone to stop invulnerable saves all in the same turn. Downside is that this all comes at a points cost and not a low one either...

Sunstone
09-24-2009, 10:16 PM
There is one other big benefit with Sicarius, namely he allows your marines to use their combat tactics. It doesn't work well with all play styles, but certainly makes those marines more tactical. I love pulling my marines out of CC on my opponents turn only to shoot them up and re-assault them, or even pull them to go after another target or even grab/contest an objective. I don't like being stuck in CC unless I want to keep their unit tied up. But it gives me the control and one more way I can make my opponent react to me.

Also, Tank Hunter can be quite useful for more than just one heavy weapon. I often rapidfire bolters into a rhino and average 1-2 glances for 15 shots head-on, or 3-4 glances/pens from rear-armor. Then add on a plasmagun rapidfire. Yea, I can't assault but I don't want my tank hunters assaulting, I want them opening up another tin can.

Calgar works great for me when I use him as a hammer. Put him with Honourguard in a Land Raider and find yourself a nice multi-assault and you're golden. I wouldn't go less than 1850 games with him.

Cassius seems like he would work out pretty well in CC, though a T6 in a unit of T4 does hurt him in shooting.

Telion can be really nice when you want to pick out that icon or standard bearer, or that powerfist sarg that's about to eat your tank. A Hvy Bolter benefits from his BS5, or that Missile Launcher that you need to hit.

Chronus seems high for his points, though I honestly my predator's usually spend half the game not able to move or shoot so how much would that be worth? Load up a pred with AC and Hvy Bolter sponsoons and go to town on infantry units. It sucks that he can't climb in another tank, but such is life.

Tigirus works pretty well if you need the extra flexibility in your army and is a godsend if you want to use a lot of reserves.

Khan is a mixed bag for me. Giving the unit he is in Hit and Run and Furious charge is quite nice but then the rest of your army loses combat tactics. Could be good if you want to outflank everything.

Shrike is one of my favorites, probably more fluff than anything else. Though infiltrating Shrike in a large unit of assault termies definately scares my opponents almost every time. Put him in assault marines and he pretty much guarentees a first turn assault.

Pedro works pretty well if you have an assault army and/or want to use sternguard as support and additional scoring units. You still need to take two troop choices because Pedro only makes SG scoring, not troop choices. Stubborn can be nice, but I usually prefer the combat tactics. Add in an honourguard squad with chapter banner for the +1 attack and between the two, you can give a lot of models +1 attack.

Lysander, well, I haven't used him yet, though putting him in a squad of Sternguard for the Bolter Drill (re-roll to-hits) certainly helps keep away from those Gets Hot! rolls. I hear he also makes a great tarpit.

mercer
09-25-2009, 04:53 AM
Sunstone, unless I am missing something how can a bolter glance the side armour or head of a rhino when the front and side armour are 11, the bolter is S4.

AirHorse
09-25-2009, 10:17 AM
Hes talking about giving a tactical squad tank hunters and therefore giving the bolters the ability to glance armour 11 :P

Sunstone
09-25-2009, 09:48 PM
AirHorse is right on. S4 with +1 on the pen roll basically makes them S5 against vehicles.


Hes talking about giving a tactical squad tank hunters and therefore giving the bolters the ability to glance armour 11 :P

mercer
09-28-2009, 06:52 AM
Still not good. You need 6's and then +1 to your only scoring a glance. Not worth giving a tactical squad tank hunters if they can only glance on a 6 (+1 from tank hunters). Use real anti tank weapons for vehicles, not bolters with tank hunters lol.

mercer
09-29-2009, 05:52 AM
I've just checked the tank hunters rule again, I don't think this would work. It says you add +1 to armour penetration roll, the maximum you can have on a D6, is well a 6. So S4 + 6 is 10, so doesn't even penetrate and really you cannot add +1 to the penetration roll as the maximum is 6 on a roll of a D6. Hope thats makes sense and thats my thinking.

Squirrel_Fish
09-29-2009, 08:59 AM
I've just checked the tank hunters rule again, I don't think this would work. It says you add +1 to armour penetration roll, the maximum you can have on a D6, is well a 6. So S4 + 6 is 10, so doesn't even penetrate and really you cannot add +1 to the penetration roll as the maximum is 6 on a roll of a D6. Hope thats makes sense and thats my thinking.

No, it can go above a 6 on the D6 if you are adding to it. There's a section in the BRB that talks about modifying die rolls.

mercer
09-29-2009, 09:26 AM
Hmmm, well I've checked the rule book and its says this is noted as a D6 + 1, but the tank hunters doesn't D6+1, just +1 to penetration roll, so the maximum number would be a 6 on the dice. I understand what you mean though