Rules you want to keep in 6th

[bfmusashi]

There are countless threads on what people want to change in 6th but I don't think enough thought has gone into what people want to keep the same. I ask you, what rules would you like to keep in 6th without alteration?
I'd want to keep Death or Glory! I use this all the time and would be sad to see it disappear.

[MaltonNecromancer]

The AP rules.

I like 'em much better than the bloody save modifier rules from waaaaay back.

[Levitas]

Fleet. As a Dark ELdar player you understand :)

[TheStrategist]

I'm hoping that they keep the FOC. There was talk of (back when the "6th ed" rules were leaked) of a similar to WFB system, and I really don't think that will mesh well with the game rules/mechanics; plus will make playing some armies at a tournament impossible.

[DarkLink]

The general layout of 5th ed is great. It's just the details that need fixing to balance some things out.

The only thing I'd with they'd change, broadly speaking, is to streamline the layout of the game phases. Currently it's very clunky, moving everything then shooting then moving again and then possibly moving again and all in odd orders and so on. The best thing about the leaked ruleset was the streamlined game phases. You could accomplish everything you currently could while playing, but games went significantly faster because it was so much more efficient.

[Grenadier]

The only thing I'd really want to keep would be the vehicle damage charts. But I'd change it so a main weapon begins at strength 6. The one thing I hate the most is the ability to shoot through Squad A to hit Squad B. I think this needs a rethinking. It's illogical. Being able to shoot through one unit to hit something else? And nothing happens to the unit being shot through?

[Yriel_The_Angelic]

I have to agree with Darklink here, I believe the 5th edition rulebook is by far the best produced and its preTTy good however it's the small details and how a codex abuses/ utilizes these details that makes the game feel weird and bad. My 2 cents.

[thecactusman17]

So in short, Grenadier, you want to be able to fire every weapon on a tank unless it's an Executioner Leman Russ? Sorry, that sounds terrible.

First off, the game MUST keep TLOS. The only people who are having trouble with this rule are people who are overly argumentative or who don't pay attention to their maneuvering.

I would like to keep the Run and Fleet mechanics, the vehicle damage charts, and the current cover mechanic for determining cover to infantry, MCs, and vehicles. I would also like to keep most elements of the current combat resolution as it applies to morale. However, I would like to see a change in units with Fearless, as currently it's a liability for units in combat.

[Grenadier]

It doesn't sound terrible to me at all. Because it's still going to be subject to movement restrictions. Thus a Predator outfitted with all lascannons will still have to decide if needs to move or not. A Leman Russ can always fire its big gun if it moves at combat speed. But otherwise any sponson or hull weapons can't fire. And there are times it's better to fire something other than the big gun.

[thecactusman17]

I interpreted your statement as raising the defensive weapon strength. Was that incorrect?

[hammer hades]

I interpreted it as raising the defense cap from strength 4 to 6, so that a weapons stronger than bolters could fire whilst at combat speed

[DarkLink]

I interpreted your statement as raising the defensive weapon strength. Was that incorrect?

So all that'd change is that a Predator with an autocannon and heavy bolters could move 6" and shoot everything, while one with lascannons would still have to pick. Hardly terrible.

[Grenadier]

Yeah that's what I meant. There was a time when defensive weapons counted at a higher strength than currently. At the very least give us a penalty. Like you can fire any gun if you move at combat speed but your BS is now reduced by 1 or something.


I interpreted it as raising the defense cap from strength 4 to 6, so that a weapons stronger than bolters could fire whilst at combat speed

[Tynskel]

whee! That would mean my predators would be able to move 12" and fire everything!
That's what you want, right?

[Grenadier]

Don't be silly. Normal movement restrictions would still apply foo! So if you are not a fast vehicle and you move more than 6 you get nothink! NOTHINK! I'm merely saying the strength value for secondary, aka defensive weapons, be higher than 4. 5 is a nice number.

Now, on to being able to shoot through units to hit another behind it.

That ought to be scrapped entirely or revamped to make it sensible. Theoretically you should be able to shoot through Squad A to hit Squad B. Squad B is, however, a tougher target to hit if you choose to do this. And nothing happens to Squad A at all. One would imagine slinging a volley of shots through one squad would result in some of them getting hit. Squad A would possibly take a few hits intended for Squad B. Squad B could get a cover save from Squad A. But as I've come to understand the rule nothing at all happens to A.

Now before panties find themselves in twists...I am not saying we should be allowed to hurt both squads. That'd be excessive. Players would run amok intentionally shooting at more distant squads with the hopes of killing members in two different squads. You can imagine the problems this would create in the game. Still, the whole makes no sense to me. Personally, I dislike this ability to shoot through squads. But I'm not able to think up a reasonable solution to the rule.

I did think maybe a penalty for attempting to hit Squad B by shooting through Squad A should be implemented. And in my opinion it ought to consist of reducing the shooter's BS to represent the added difficulty of shooting accurately through a group of soldiers at something else. This would thus encourage or discourage players attempting this. Obviously army's with higher ballistic skills would perform better at this. While those with less may be more inclined to rethink the attempt. Yet this isn't a great solution because it doesn't address the possible hits the "shot through" target may take.

Now, I know 40k is not realistic and isn't intended to be. Still, in my mind shooting through Squad A and them not getting a scratch goes a bit too far.

[triplare]

I'd like to see TLoS remain as it is now. Needing tweaks but still solid concepts I want in 6th edition are Run, FOCs, Ramming, vehicles don't (usually) count as scoring, Seize the Initiative and multiple victory conditions (VPs, KPs, Objectives, etc.).

[Grenadier]

I'd like to see running stay as well. That lovely little rule makes a world of difference sometimes.

[thecactusman17]

Don't be silly. Normal movement restrictions would still apply foo! So if you are not a fast vehicle and you move more than 6 you get nothink! NOTHINK! I'm merely saying the strength value for secondary, aka defensive weapons, be higher than 4. 5 is a nice number.


Fast vehicles are what kill this, and what were being referenced in the previous post. Currently, all fast vehicles moving at cruising speed can fire their main weapons... and their defensive weapons. Eldar and Blood Angels would suddenly become ridiculously powerful, far more so than any other current codexes, as they both have secondary weapons in the S5-6 range. They would essentially double their firepower vs. Infantry and light tanks. Chimeras, too would suddenly become absurd as they are suddenly able to fire both their guns and a mounted heavy stubber on the move. Numerous other codexes would see already powerful vehicles become even more powerful in response, such as the Land Raider Redeemer.

[Turner]

Fast vehicles are what kill this, and what were being referenced in the previous post. Currently, all fast vehicles moving at cruising speed can fire their main weapons... and their defensive weapons. Eldar and Blood Angels would suddenly become ridiculously powerful, far more so than any other current codexes, as they both have secondary weapons in the S5-6 range. They would essentially double their firepower vs. Infantry and light tanks. Chimeras, too would suddenly become absurd as they are suddenly able to fire both their guns and a mounted heavy stubber on the move. Numerous other codexes would see already powerful vehicles become even more powerful in response, such as the Land Raider Redeemer.


So numerous other codexes would see already powerful vehicles become even more powerful... If everyone gets lifted up that seems pretty fair to me. Obviously with a change like that one side will benefit more than the others. (IG with the shear mass of vehicles they can have or Blood Angels/Eldar with all of their fast vehicles)

[Wildcard]

Yeah..

IG: Leman Russ battle tank with heavy bolter at the front and at sponsons.. Always move 6" and fire battle cannon + total of 9x str5 ap4 shots..

And 9 of these monsters is only 1500pts ish.. total of 9x battlecannon shots and 81x heavy bolter shots per turn, all while moving.. and having AV14 most likely towards you :)

GK:
- LR Crusader with psybolt hurricanebolters: up to 12 str5 ap5 twinlinked shots and a psycannon in a turn..
- Stormraven: hurricane bolters and psybolts (and lets not forget weapon at the nose & turret).. you move 12", pick a target for machine spirit, and then pick a target for the rest of your weapons. Yea, you can unleash the whole armament (well, not the 1-shot missiles..) even at cruising speed..

[Wolfshade]

I would keep the "To Hit" rolls the same in 6th ed.

[Sinistermind]

Tlos, running, flat out save for skimmers/jetbikes

although i want the multi-assualt rules changed to if you have the distance and can keep coherency charge whoever your want

[Tynskel]

there's a reason for preventing charging whatever.

Back in the day, I would shoot one squad to death, then charge a second squad, wipe them out, and then consolidate into a 3rd, effectively killing 2 units and locking up a 3rd one in a single phase.

Basically, it is broken and unfair. Tyranids were nearly unstoppable with those rules.


Seriously: I didn't lose a game for 3 months straight. That was once. And that was due to a specific person tailoring his army to specifically destroy mine. The next week, I brought something different, and I still crushed everyone, and defeated the taylor army.

[Sinistermind]

how about if you shoot you cannot multi-assault at all as it take distracts you from other units?

and i said nothing about changing consolidation moves to allow charging, i mean this has to be the most broken part of your entire example by being able to unit hop and avoid the shooting phase easily

[Tynskel]

how about if you shoot you cannot multi-assault at all as it take distracts you from other units?

and i said nothing about changing consolidation moves to allow charging, i mean this has to be the most broken part of your entire example by being able to unit hop and avoid the shooting phase easily

not really.

wiping out 2 units is the real kicker. At that point, I almost don't care if you kill the squad. I had already done horrific damage to your army.


Here's a good example how you can totally screw someone:
Dante, Sanguinary Guard, Infernus pistols, Banner, Fist. Sanguinary priest, infernus, pw.

You shoot and destroy a warrior squad. Then charge the hormagaunt, and slaughter them. You kinda don't care that you can shoot the Sanguinary guard anymore. You have just totally screwed up a tyranid backbone.

[Sinistermind]

i dont see how what your saying has anything to do with what im saying, i just said if they take the restrictions off moving into a multi-assault that it shouldnt be done at all if shooting then you can only charge what you shot like it is now..., and i said nothing about being able to singularly shoot a unit and charge a different unit...

[Tynskel]

you said to charge whoever you want. the only restriction on charging is if you shoot someone.

[Nightspawn]

I don't know what I would like to keep but I would like to see something come back. Assaulting from rhinos from 3rd ed. Why take a transport that you have to single file out of just to stand and shoot?

[DarkLink]

Because transports aren't already awesome enough.

Though I would really like to be able to do that with my Grey Knights as well.

[Blaznak]

I like the part of the game where they let you roll dice. I hope they keep that part and don't go to a diceless system. :)

[Grenadier]

Just a nit picky thing for me but I'd like it if they change some things about shooting and casualties. In my opinion the only models which can be shot at and hit are ones you can see, unless of course the weapon doesn't need line of site. So for example, if part of a squad is hidden away from view then only the ones who can be seen would be the ones you could hit and wound.

I'd also like to see the whole all blast markers now scatter crap go and go back to the previous method of scattering.

And since assault is my nemesis I want to see it streamlined. Thanks to fellows here I now know I was being screwed in assault by my opponent assaulting me, fighting that assault, and then bringing in other guys to finish it off. Now I know all models who intend to assault all must be moved first and then you can work out assaults.

[Wildcard]

I'd also like to see the whole all blast markers now scatter crap go and go back to the previous method of scattering.

What was the previous method exactly for the scattering..? I jumped back to the wonderfull life of TT and miniatures just when the 5th edition was released :)



Assaulting from rhinos from 3rd ed

Kinda this.. Imo it was great with the "leaked 6th ed. rules", you could assault from any transport, only that the type of transport was affecting the range of the charge, and how long distance you could move with the transport first.. Even "general" assault vehicle had difference to "open topped" in this regard..


I so do hope the 6th ed would be so much like the "leaked rules"..

[Tynskel]

Oi! I wouldn't change the Scatter rules- the previous 2 editions for scattering had nothing to do with our BS. A guy with BS 2 was just as likely to hit their target as someone with BS 5. Not to mention, the partial hits crap--- that was really really annoying.

I really like the system the way it is--- roll scatter, subtract BS. Did it touch a model? done.

[Hive Mind]

I seem to remember that once upon a time a blast template only scattered if you missed your to-hit roll. I personally would like to see that back. A missed to-hit roll with a blast template should scatter 2d6" minus BS.

[jb50c]

I know this is supposed to be rules you want to keep, but can we please fix rage. Almost every unit that has it awesome sauce, then you read the little line saying it has rage.

It's like taking home a beautiful woman only to find out she is man.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be a negative modifier, but at least make it a chance like a 4+. You can already make leadership/morale rolls to regroup when your squad has gone batty. Nothing like having a 400 pt DC led around the board by an empty rhino or wasting a turn killing a drop pod.

[Turner]

I'd like to keep some of the little things, like designations such as "this is a TANK" and just seeing tank I know "ok it get's +1 str if it rams and it has the special rules tank shock and ramming" or "Assault 1, MELTA" is easy to quickly identify "yup if that thing gets close it's gonna, as Mario would say, melta mya facea offa! I like being able to quickly identify what does what without pawing through my opponents rule book or knowing everyone's rule book back to front.

[Ork E Nuff]

Furious Charge...if my preferred codex will not bring back the infamous "choppa rule", keep the charge. On the opposite end of the spectrum, dump assaulting the unit you shot at. 4th edition had it right. Shoot, assault someone within range; maximize your destructive ability.

[Xar]

Keep Deep Strike just the way it is.

[Xar]

I seem to remember that once upon a time a blast template only scattered if you missed your to-hit roll. I personally would like to see that back. A missed to-hit roll with a blast template should scatter 2d6" minus BS.

If you're rolling to hit, and miss, then the BS should reduce scatter since it was already used to hit. And if you're rolling to hit, then it should always scatter on a miss.

[Swifty17]

I really hope they keep the rules for skimmers not wrecking when they are immobilised. I play Eldar and always hated in fourth when I'd get immobilized and my vehicle would be wrecked even if I hadn't moved in the previous turn.

[CrimsonTurkey]

On the topic of defensive weapons, I think they should be spelled out in the vehicle's profile. This would allow for a lot more leeway in vehicle design, and would help with things like Tau not having defensive weapons.

I really like the current system for vehicle damage. Rolling on one chart is much better than having two, or for those of you who can remember, different charts for every vehicle.

I think there should be a way to assault a transport and engage the occupants as they scramble out if you destroy it. It doesn't make any sense that my genestealers patiently wait for the marines to crawl out of the wreckage, take up firing positions, and shoot before charging in.

[Tynskel]

It's called surrounding the exits, for one. Auto pinned. And surround the vehicle--- killing them.

[Diagnosis Ninja]

I'd keep the rules mostly as it is, with a few differences:

>Defensive weapons on vehicles start at S5.
>Cover changed back to 5+ Default, 4+ for heavy things.
>Introduce fliers, like the 6th Ed PDF from January.
>Some of the swanky rules clarifications from the January 6th Ed PDF.

There's other stuff, but I can't remember right now.

[CrimsonTurkey]

It's called surrounding the exits, for one. Auto pinned. And surround the vehicle--- killing them.

How, precisely, can a Trygon surround three exits of a transport?

[SotonShades]

Assault the vehicle with big blob units as well as the trygon, even though they can't actually hurt thr rhino.

Only unit i can think of really that can surround AND take on a rhino is big ork mobs with a PK Nob. Otherwise, as I've said, it's best to get in multiple units to do the job. Make sure you charge in the killing unit before the surrounding unit or you will have shot yourself in the foot.

[Wildcard]

I'd keep the rules mostly as it is, with a few differences:

>Defensive weapons on vehicles start at S5.

This has been discussed to the death.. It would be many people say a game breaking.
Don't just think that what you can shoot, but whats on the receiving side.. S5 shots wound many troops for either 3+ or 2+, and to give the possibility for certain armies to dish out S5 defensive shots would be devastating

GK: Psybolt bolters on stormravens, and to a lesser impacting LR crusader + rhinos etc..
IG: Squadron of LR BTs: 18 extra S5 shots (to a total of 27) on the move in addition to the battlecannons
BA: fastfastfastfast... every vehicle goes atleast 12" and blasts away all they got..

[Diagnosis Ninja]

Don't see what the issue is with S5 Defensive, it used to be S6 :/ It was breaking at S6, given that it meant you were also firing two Shuriken Cannons, for example, but I really don't see why weapons such as Pulse Carbines, Burst Cannons, Heavy Bolters, or Psybolt Weapons should be offensive when they're pretty much identical to their S4 pals.

S5 is simply a nice mid ground.

[DarkLink]

This has been discussed to the death.. It would be many people say a game breaking.

So the Leman Russ Punisher is OP too, I guess?

[thecactusman17]

The leman Russ isn't to bad, but imagine this ability on a blood angels Baal predator. Full distance plus full firepower. Or agk storm raven with about 18 shooting attacks each turn at full speed thanks to potms. S5 defensive weapons boost already strong codices, reduce the power and value of existing hard-hitting choices , and diminish the tactical Teddies that come with choosing to maneuver or fire.

[DarkLink]

Yeah, then the Storm Raven would actually be a competitive option. Currently, it only works in basically one single list with Coteaz, a Librarian, two Ravens and a bunch of DCA.

[Ironwolf]

I would like stubborn, running and preferred enemy. I don't think they will get rid of it but you don't see it that much anymore. I heard in the 6th rumor of the leaked version that they added the reroll to ranged attacks I just hope they don't change it to like master crafted.