PDA

View Full Version : 2kpt Space Wolves competetive list advice



Fowlplaychiken
09-19-2009, 10:48 AM
Am trying to create a balanced list for the new Wolves dex. I have one or two old models lying around and will probably pick them up again (used to play wolves in 3rd). Advice or suggestions/opinions? Thanks!


HQ:
Ragnar Blackmane (mounted in LR)
Total: 240pts

Rune Priest: (Jaws of the World Wolf, Storm Caller)(mounted in LR)
Total: 100pts

TROOPS:
Grey Hunters Pack 1 (x10) (mounted in LR)
1x Meltagun: free
1x flamer: free
Power Fist
Total: 175pts

Gray Hunter Pack 2 (x8)
1x Meltagun
Powerfist
Drop pod
Total: 185pts

Blood Claw Pack 1 (x9)
Flamer
Power Fist
Rhino
Total: 195pts

Blood Claw Pack 2 (x9)
Flamer
Power Fist
Rhino
Total: 195pts

ELITES:
Wolf Scouts Pack (x7)
Meltagun
Power Weapon x2
Total: 145pts

Wolf Guard Pack (x5)
1x Terminator armor (GH Pack 1 LR)
1x Terminator armor + cyclone missile (GH Pack 2)
1x Power Weapon, (Blood claw pack 1)
1x ,Power Weapon (Blood Claw pack 2)
1x Power Weapon (Scout pack 1)
Total: 180pts

HEAVY SUPPORT:

Long Fang Squad 1 (x6)
3x Heavy Bolter
2x Lascannon
Total: 155pts

Long Fang Squad 2 (x6)
3x Heavy Bolter
2x Lascannon
Total: 155pts

Land Raider Crusader: 250pts
Multi Melta
Extra Armor
Total: 275pts

GRAND TOTAL: 2000pts

Chumbalaya
09-19-2009, 03:19 PM
Ragnar Blackmane (mounted in LR)
Total: 240pts

Seems like overkill, and not having Eternal Warrior hurts.


Rune Priest: (Jaws of the World Wolf, Storm Caller)(mounted in LR)
Total: 100pts

Storm Caller doesn't work on vehicles, I'd pick the 24" DS/skimmer/jump pack doom power.


Grey Hunters Pack 1 (x10) (mounted in LR)
1x Meltagun: free
1x flamer: free
Power Fist
Total: 175pts

If you're going for 10, must get 2 meltas. A powerfist on a model with 1 attack is so not worth it. GH maxed on meltas are NOT meant for combat (at least not against anything good), stay inside and pew pew out of your Rhino.


Gray Hunter Pack 2 (x8)
1x Meltagun
Powerfist
Drop pod
Total: 185pts

Again with the 1 attack powerfist, you aren't impressing anyone. I bet you'll miss that 2nd melta.


Blood Claw Pack 1 (x9)
Flamer
Power Fist
Rhino
Total: 195pts

Yipee for WS3 and 1 attack powerfists. Blood Clots are fail.


Blood Claw Pack 2 (x9)
Flamer
Power Fist
Rhino
Total: 195pts

Yipee for WS3 and 1 attack powerfists. Blood Clots are fail.


ELITES:
Wolf Scouts Pack (x7)
Meltagun
Power Weapon x2
Total: 145pts

Show up, annoy something, die horribly.


Wolf Guard Pack (x5)
1x Terminator armor (GH Pack 1 LR)
1x Terminator armor + cyclone missile (GH Pack 2)
1x Power Weapon, (Blood claw pack 1)
1x ,Power Weapon (Blood Claw pack 2)
1x Power Weapon (Scout pack 1)
Total: 180pts

No high S attacks out of the GH unit apart from the charge, cyclone and melta don't mix, Blood Claws need PF, not PW, and Wolf Scouts don't need a PW (combi-melta, chainfist! Oh wait, no more termies, I guess melta bombs, hooray for nerfing!


Long Fang Squad 1 (x6)
3x Heavy Bolter
2x Lascannon
Total: 155pts

Long Fang Squad 2 (x6)
3x Heavy Bolter
2x Lascannon
Total: 155pts

Pricey for 2 lazor shots and some useless HBs. Still too static.


Land Raider Crusader: 250pts
Multi Melta
Extra Armor
Total: 275pts

Only good thing you picked so far :P

It's a mish mash of stuff, nothing optimized and just kinda thrown together. If you're crazy about Ragnar, just go all out and stick him with Wolf Guard, Grey Hunters are not great in combat. BCs are trash, GH should just sit in Rhinos or DPs and melt things. You need units to knock out transports so you can chomp on the gooey bits inside, so TLAC or MM Dreads, dakka Preds, ML Fangs (they're dirt cheap, otherwise I wouldn't bother), Typhoon or MM Speeders, and so on. Add in doggies so you can lock up assaults quicker.

Fowlplaychiken
09-19-2009, 04:03 PM
Seems like overkill, and not having Eternal Warrior hurts.



Storm Caller doesn't work on vehicles, I'd pick the 24" DS/skimmer/jump pack doom power.



If you're going for 10, must get 2 meltas. A powerfist on a model with 1 attack is so not worth it. GH maxed on meltas are NOT meant for combat (at least not against anything good), stay inside and pew pew out of your Rhino.



Again with the 1 attack powerfist, you aren't impressing anyone. I bet you'll miss that 2nd melta.



Yipee for WS3 and 1 attack powerfists. Blood Clots are fail.



Yipee for WS3 and 1 attack powerfists. Blood Clots are fail.



Show up, annoy something, die horribly.



No high S attacks out of the GH unit apart from the charge, cyclone and melta don't mix, Blood Claws need PF, not PW, and Wolf Scouts don't need a PW (combi-melta, chainfist! Oh wait, no more termies, I guess melta bombs, hooray for nerfing!



Pricey for 2 lazor shots and some useless HBs. Still too static.



Only good thing you picked so far :P

It's a mish mash of stuff, nothing optimized and just kinda thrown together. If you're crazy about Ragnar, just go all out and stick him with Wolf Guard, Grey Hunters are not great in combat. BCs are trash, GH should just sit in Rhinos or DPs and melt things. You need units to knock out transports so you can chomp on the gooey bits inside, so TLAC or MM Dreads, dakka Preds, ML Fangs (they're dirt cheap, otherwise I wouldn't bother), Typhoon or MM Speeders, and so on. Add in doggies so you can lock up assaults quicker.

1)Cant afford the 2nd melta. Both those assault weapons are free in this configuration. Dont have 5 pts to spare. Also, ragnar is awesome:-p and I know SC dosent work on vehicles. Its Useful after disembark.

2) Power fist + everyone else in the command squad gets +d3 attacks for ragnars ability. Still, swapped all fists to power weapons and all power weapons (save scouts, who cant) to fists, so that the wolf guard with more attacks are rocking the fists. Same points cost. new list below for reference.

3) There are 9 in the squad + a wolfguard. You cant have 10 ioin the squad and put it in a transport unless you have no wolfguard (so must have ld 8 and lose the extra power weapon). With 10 in the squad and the extra meltaweapon you have no sarg with power weapon and LD 8.

4), yea, one base power fist attack isnt too impressive. I will swap to a power weapon and give the wolf guard sarg the fist.

5) ws3 = wounding on 4 vs most enemies. As does ws4. For a model getting counterattack and +2 attacks on the charge instead of +1, They are cheap and killey. 4 attacks each on the charge. Your silly if you think blood "clots" are fail:-p

6) Wolf scout squad comes in turn 2-3, shoots, assaults with 3 power weapons. More than annoying when supporting a ragnar disembark turn 3. The drop pod is also support for ragnar.

ide write more but I g2g back to work:-d any real criticism?

Fowlplaychiken
09-19-2009, 04:36 PM
To continue:

Longfangs: 2 lascannon and 3 heavy bolter for 155pts is not pricey. They can split fire...2 lascannons from each squad fire at armor targets, heavy bolters at light vehicles or infantry. HB guys also soak wounds.

Pretty much your only point of criticism I agree with is that I should put power weapons on each squad and give their wolfguard leader a fist instead.

Fowlplaychiken
09-19-2009, 04:45 PM
fixed list:

HQ:
Ragnar Blackmane(mounted in LR)
Total: 240pts

Rune Priest: (Jaws of the World Wolf, Storm Caller)(mounted in LR)
Total: 100pts

TROOPS:
Grey Hunters Pack 1 (x10)(mounted in LR)
1x Meltagun
1x flamer
Power Weapon
Total: 165pts

Gray Hunter Pack 2 (x8)
1x Meltagun
Power Weapon
Drop pod
Total: 175pts

Blood Claw Pack 1 (x9)
Flamer
Power Weapon
Rhino
Total: 185pts

Blood Claw Pack 2 (x9)
Flamer: free
Power Fist
Rhino
Total: 185pts

ELITES:
Wolf Scouts Pack (x7)
Meltagun
Power Weapon x2
Total: 145pts

Wolf Guard Pack (x5)
1x Terminator armor, power fist (GH Pack 1 LR)
1x Terminator armor + cyclone missile, power fist: (GH Pack 2)
1x Power fist, (Blood claw pack 1)
1x ,Power fist (Blood Claw pack 2)
1x Power weapon(Scout pack 1)
Total: 220pts

HEAVY SUPPORT:

Long Fang Squad 1 (x6)
3x Heavy Bolter
2x Lascannon
Total: 155pts

Long Fang Squad 2 (x6)
3x Heavy Bolter
2x Lascannon
Total: 155pts

Land Raider Crusader
Multi Melta
Extra Armor:
Total: 275pts

GRAND TOTAL: 2000pts

Chumbalaya
09-19-2009, 05:15 PM
1) GH aren't good in combat, that's the whole thing. A 1 attack PF doesn't impress, even with extra attacks charging. If you swap for PW you don't get any high S attacks to knock out Dreads or ICs. WG, on the other hand, smash face.

2) Better, but you may as well run Wolf Guard to get more punch. GH are for cheap meltas and scoring.

3) Bingo, which is why it's not that good.

4) Better.

5) WS3 means anything else hits you on a 3+. A bunch of S4 attacks doesn't kill reliably, you need the fists and wolf claws to do the damage, hence Wolf Guard. Blood Clots are fail because of WS3, impetuous, and needing expensive characters to get any sort of use out of them. And why in Russ's name are the assault troops in a Rhino?

6) They'll show up and get dead. Wolf scouts, like any other outflankers, are simply too easy to counter with something as simple as an infantry screen or just moving.

7) The only thing worthwhile in the unit are the lascannons, and even then 4 lascannon shots at BS4 isn't all that impressive. That's a 8/27 chance to destroy a Rhino, with all 4. Half that if it has cover (free smokes). Really not that great.

The second list is more of the same, meh. Something like Ragnar+WG in a LRC, 2-3 units of GH in Rhinos, 2 Podding Dreads (1 podding GH unit), Dakka Preds, and Wolves would work better. More firepower to down transports, a nice Land Raider barrelling down somebody's throat, and a more cohesive focus overall. Add another LRC if possible, filling it with BCs and a Wolf Priest wouldn't be terrible, though I'd rather see WG.

Fowlplaychiken
09-19-2009, 08:47 PM
The list you describe hasnt enough troops. Also, I did switch the GH to have power weapons. Their Wolf Guard Leaders have fists instead. Same points cost. As for WS 3, they will strike simultaniously in most cases. SO long as your not being stupid and letting yourself get charged, you will usually plow the enemy. Just had a test battle, and the BC squad charged a squad of 10 CSM. 2 had melta, 1 powerfist. Pretty standard. Killed the squad with 6 guys remaining, went on to charge another csm squad. All but 1 (the wolf guard sarg) died, as did 3 CSM from the next squad. Further, their effectiveness when charging is increased when using them in concert with ragnar's howl for a turn (furious charge). If needed I can drop 1 scout and give a combi melta to each wolf guard leader from the 3 squads that only have 1 special weapon each. Tbh however, dosent seem to be needed.

Longfangs give you 5 heavy weapons for 155 points. Compare that to most heavy units (pred, whatever) and its deff a good buy.

The scouts and drop pod squad work together to support ragnar, who is also supported by the rhino's with blood claws, flanking. Hammer and anvil, with the long fangs shooting whatever may threaten ragnar before he reaches melee. I do agree that wolf guard squads are uber. I disagree that blood claws are not worth the points (15pts for a squadwith frag, krak, cc, pistol, melta, power sword, power fist,counterattack, and +2 attacks on the charge. compare that with the two closest equivelants (basic space marine, basic chaos space marine) and its a good buy. Support it with another squad of BC, or with ragnar and his uber squad of doom (raganar and his command squad took on abbadon and 4 completely tooled CC termi's and won in my test game) and its deadly, tbh. Ragnar and every squad within 12 inches is geting a 5+ inv from the rune priest on turns I dont have a high priority target for JOTW. I think what it comes down to chumb is you play your armies differently than I do, and so dislike the options ive taken. Your the kind of guy who would field 4 squads of tooled out wolf guard with Grimnar and a single drop pod dread (which is 2kpts btw). Such a force would be deadly but have serious issues with certain armies (IG, Salamanders come to mind) Appreciate the imput, however. I did modify the list slightly since last you saw it; dropped the power fist from the command squad wolf guard (ragnar has melta bombs and everyone has krak grenades anyway, and ragnar is str 6 on the charge) in favor of melta guns in both BC squads instead of flamers. May drop a scout power sword for combi melta's in both BC squads too.

Fowlplaychiken
09-19-2009, 11:57 PM
In essence you've argued that the only things in the entire SW codex worth fielding are GH, grimnar, and Wolfguard:-p and that any list using some of the other interesting stuff is worthless:-p

Nikephoros
09-20-2009, 05:42 AM
In essence you've argued that the only things in the entire SW codex worth fielding are GH, grimnar, and Wolfguard:-p and that any list using some of the other interesting stuff is worthless:-p

Its going to break people's hearts when they find out that Space Wolves are now a shooty army.

pdelair
09-20-2009, 06:23 AM
fixed list:

HQ:
Ragnar Blackmane(mounted in LR)
Total: 240pts

Rune Priest: (Jaws of the World Wolf, Storm Caller)(mounted in LR)
Total: 100pts



I personally wouldn't user Storm Caller for this choice. Since its only a cover save (not +5 inv all the time) it has limited use for a squad that should be in combat as much as possible.




TROOPS:
Grey Hunters Pack 1 (x10)(mounted in LR)
1x Meltagun
1x flamer
Power Weapon
Total: 165pts



The second melta is free. Dual flamers or dual melta. Also MotW is an excellent buy for the cost and should be applied here. I personally would have kept the fist here. WG have so many other CC options that I don't think its worth taking what is a standard CC wep with them. Now, I would also move the Rune priest to another squad, drop the WG with them back to PA, take a frostblade and bolt pistol/plasma pistol. Furious charge with Frost Blades is coming in at I5 STR6. By themselves Ragnar and the WG member are going to maul the bulk of most units. Also, I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure a GH unit led by a terminator can't Sweeping Advance a fleeing unit. LRR instead of LRC.




Gray Hunter Pack 2 (x8)
1x Meltagun
Power Weapon
Drop pod
Total: 175pts



MoTW, Rune Priest, and PA WG here.



Blood Claw Pack 1 (x9)
Flamer
Power Weapon
Rhino
Total: 185pts

Blood Claw Pack 2 (x9)
Flamer: free
Power Fist
Rhino
Total: 185pts


At 10 men or under I think Skyclaws are the better Bloodclaw option now. non-skyclaws should be 15 men strong coming out of a LRC.



ELITES:
Wolf Scouts Pack (x7)
Meltagun
Power Weapon x2
Total: 145pts


WG for scouts should take a PF. Plenty of I4 S4 power weapon attacks already and a PF can really make a diff when that Meltagun misses or you want to hit something like Broadside squad. 9 out of 10 times coming from OBEL these guys will probably make their points even with a short lifespan.



HEAVY SUPPORT:

Long Fang Squad 1 (x6)
3x Heavy Bolter
2x Lascannon
Total: 155pts

Long Fang Squad 2 (x6)
3x Heavy Bolter
2x Lascannon
Total: 155pts



You either lose heavy weapons or give these guys an identity crisis once you start taking wounds. My personal feeling is that LF's are best suited to the anti-personel type weapons. I would roll one HB squad and some kind of tanks instead.



Land Raider Crusader
Multi Melta
Extra Armor:
Total: 275pts

GRAND TOTAL: 2000pts

Not a bad choice, but don't forget the redeemer option.

Fowlplaychiken
09-20-2009, 08:46 AM
pdeleir, good criticisms.

1) I will consider dropping teh 5+ invuln. I figured he can only cast one power per turn anyway and so I would usually be casting JOTW, unless my squad was out in the open and needed the cover save, or a nearby squad.

2) second melta is free. First would cost 5pts. Thus, melta + flamer is free. I agree about MOTW, will try to fit it in. Its true about the sweeping advance. However, most opponents will get wiped out by that squad during the first round of combat. A unit that survives and flee's only has a moderate chance of getting far enough away that consolidation dosent keep the squad within 6 inches. For the super inexpensive guy with 2+ save, 5+ invuln (great wound soak) and a power sword/storm bolter, all for 15pts, its worth it IMO. However, if I wanted to run a redeemer (which I like way better and had originally but dropped due to squad size) then I would have to agree about ditching him. As for moving the Rp to another squad, I hesitate only because he is very fragile. I will give it a try however.

3) done, tho I kept teh termi with cyclone launcher in this squad.

4) 15 man squad in a crusader is a TON of points. 10 man in rhino is fine for me. Can shield the LR with ragnar and disembark after a turn of movement to do their assault. Cant move/assault from rhino, true, but thats what ragnars uber squad is for

5) done

6)For normal devastators I would agree, but Long Fangs can split fire; Thus the cheapie heavy bolter guys act as wound soaks and lay fire on infantry or light vehicles while the lascannons split fire and pew pew priority targets (i.e. threats to ragnar)

7) Swapped back to redeemer. I have one in my sallies and loev it to death. Had a crusader for the larger capacity.

Fowlplaychiken
09-20-2009, 08:57 AM
fixed tweaked list

HQ:
Ragnar Blackmane:(mounted in LR)
Total: 240pts

Rune Priest: (Jaws of the World Wolf, Living Lightning) (mounted in GH Squad 2 Drop Pod)
Total: 100pts

TROOPS:
Grey Hunters Pack 1 (x10)(mounted in LR)
1x flamer
1x meltagun
Power Weapon
Mark of the Wolf
Total: 180pts

Gray Hunter Pack 2 (x7)
1x Meltagun
Power Weapon
Mark of the Wolf
Drop pod
Total: 175pts

Blood Claw Pack 1 (x9)
meltagun
Power Weapon
Rhino
Total: 190pts

Blood Claw Pack 2 (x9)
meltagun
Power Weapon
Rhino
Total: 190pts

ELITES:
Wolf Scouts Pack (x7)
Meltagun
Power Weapon x2
Total: 145pts

Wolf Guard Pack (x5): 90pts
1x Power Fist (GH Pack 1 LR)
1x Power fist, combi melta: (GH Pack 2)
1x Power fist, combi melta (Blood claw pack 1)
1x Power fist, combi melta (Blood Claw pack 2)
1x Power Fist (Scout pack 1)
Total: 205pts

HEAVY SUPPORT:

Long Fang Squad 1 (x6)
3x Heavy Bolte
2x Lascannon
Total: 155pts

Long Fang Squad 2 (x6)
3x Heavy Bolter
2x Lascannon
Total: 155pts

Land Raider Redeemer
Multi Melta
Extra Armor
Total: 265pts

GRAND TOTAL: 2000pts

mkerr
09-20-2009, 10:19 AM
@Fowlplaychiken: I haven't gone over everyone's advise, so I apologize in advance if I'm covering old territory with my comments. It looks like the army list has improved a lot, so it must have been good.

I'm going to give you some feedback based on my games. I've actually played a couple of lists very similar to this one.

1. Ragnar is awesome, but he's going to draw a crazy amount of fire. The extra attacks are really devastating!

2. I wouldn't put JoWW and Living Lightning on the same Rune Priest. I wouldn't put Living Lightning on a Rune Priest without a Choose of the Slain -- consider Tempest's Wrath instead.

3. Your Grey Hunter's pack is exactly the one I'm playing now. Power Weapon and Mark of the Wulfen.

4. I've dropped Blood Claws from my army completely. The +2A on the charge is nice, but I'd rather have a Bolter, WS4 and Mark of the Wulfen. Heck, MotW alone can generate as many extra attacks as Reckless Charge.

5. Work a MotW into the Wolf Scouts pack.

6. You are sinking a ton of points into your Wolf Guard. Personally, I don't think you'll need this much S8 but your local gaming area may be different than mine (I find that lots of Meltaguns and some Long Fangs shots is enough for me). So I'm trying out Wolf Claws (or Mark of the Wulfen + Combi-melta) on my Wolf Guard. I suspect that in the long run MotW + Combi-melta is going to win out.

7. I'm using the same Long Fangs build out in most of my games, although I tried out 3 ML + 2 LC a couple of days ago on one of my LF packs and liked that one as well. I'll probably settle on 3 HB + 2 LC for the long haul.

8. I'm using a Crusader in my Ragnar armr (for the extra seats), but I'd really like to hear how the Redeemer works.

All in all, I think it's a great list. Decent amount of anti-tank, nice mobility, the ability to concentrate your forces, the ability to grab far objectives, and a fantastic punch in close combat.

I can't wait to hear how it works!

-mkerr

Fowlplaychiken
09-20-2009, 12:26 PM
Thanks for the opinion Mker. I will take a look at the dex when I get home and consider what you said about the RP special abilities. As for the blood claws, its true that with MOTF you can sometimes get nearly as many attacks, but on average your going to get 3 attacks + 1 + 1 on the charge, so 5 attacks. Thats one more than a Bloodclaw (but with rending). 9 Blood Claws on the charge are getting 4 attacks each, which is as many as a Wolfguard squad. true, WS3 and no bolter an be an irritant, but so far ive been OK with it.

As for the powerfists, every squad absolutely needs one in 5th edition. Too many mechanized armies and monstrous creatures running around. I originally had a single wolf claw on each rather than fists but I found the points spent did not justify it. Wolf claw costs almost as much as a fist. No extra attack unless you take two (which costs a fortune) so same attack profile as the fist. Plenty of guys in the squad to soak wounds so the fists initiative shouldnt be an issue. Wolf claw hits on 4's, wounds on 4's on average, with rerolls for one profile. Power fist hits on 4's wounds on 2s. Wounds on average is the same, but the powefist can cause instant death and threaten walkers/monstrous creatures. As things stand now, each squad has at least one power weapon and one power fist. Each grey hunter squad, and the scout squad, has additional power weapons. Works out well I think.

I may drop the 3 combi melta's for a MOTW on the scouts.

I ,3 longfangs too. 155points for 2 lascannon and 3 heavy bolter. Compare that to any other heavy support choice (say, a predator) and its very point efficient.

I had a crusader originally but really like the redeemer in my Sally army and, while the extra transport cap was nice, by putting the rune priest in a seperate squad with the drop pod guys, I can fit what I need in the redeemer. I also save 10 pts, which is great because this list is very tight.

Chumbalaya
09-20-2009, 01:46 PM
The only really bad units in the SW book are Blood Claws and Wolf Scouts, everything else is pretty good or at least serviceable.

Latest iteration looks improved, though putting meltas on Blood Claws is a no-no because of BS3. They also really shouldn't be in Rhinos since they can't charge upon exiting. That's part of what makes BCs bad, they require a Land Raider (basically doubling the cost of the unit) and Wolf Guard to get any mileage out of them.

Dropping your super sweet Priest turn 1 is going to get him dead. I'd sit him back with the Fangs and use Lightning and the DS/jump pack murder power, also a Chooser.

4 lascannons isn't sufficient AT at range, BC meltas are crap and GH suicide meltas are one-hit wonders, so you'll need some more tank busting. MM/HF Speeders, MM Dreads, and so on would help with heavy armor, autocannons or missile launchers in sufficient numbers can help knock out light armor.

Fowlplaychiken
09-20-2009, 03:20 PM
Think I am going to switch the melta back to flame ron the blood claws and get a second melta in the command squad with the saved points. As for BC in rhino, ive played salamanders for a significant amount of time. I regularly manage to charge the enemy with my sallies and then launch an assault. It simply requires forethought. yes, it sucks that I cant scateboard 12 inches, disembark 2, and assault 6; I must move forward 12 inches and disembark 2, move 6, assault 6 the next turn. However, with fun smoke launchers and the fact that my opponent has plenty to shoot at more important than two rhinos full of blood claws, I generally believe I will have this opportunity. I am going to give the BC a try and if they dont work out, can easily drop them for more GH.

As for the scouts, I have to say your just flat wrong. Also, im going to throw a combi melta in the scout squad with the 5pts saved by dropping the second BC melta.

The rune priest/drop pod squad is not a suicide squad. My salamanders run a "suicide" ironclad w/ hf in a drop pod to fall first turn, kill a high priority target, soak fire, and promptly die:-p This squad is not that. Drop pod GH + scouts come in turn one and (hopefully) 2 to support vulkan and the BC as they arrive; longfangs provide cover fire and try to kill anything that may threaten vulkan. I have a spare Venerable dread from forgeworld lying around and may try to work it in but tbh, I like having 4 troops squads in a 2kpt game.

Chumbalaya
09-20-2009, 03:47 PM
I'll say this, if your opponents let your Blood Claws make it into combat on foot, they're doing it wrong. 10 marines in the open aren't that hard to kill.

Scouts are another noob-catcher unit. It's not a secret that they're coming, so your opponent should be able to prepare for it. Staying outside melta/charge range, smoking up, using cover, having cheap infantry blocking assaults, blocking up the board so you can't get across parts of it, and so on. They can do damage, but you're basically banking on your opponent being an idiot (or very forgetful) ;)

Drop Pod comes in turn 1, you aren't in assault yet so they get vaped as the only infantry on the board besides Long Fangs. If GH had any appreciable firepower at range, like Tactical Marines do, it would be fine to drop them. As is, they're a pretty easy target and knocks out your Rune Priest rather quickly.

Fowlplaychiken
09-20-2009, 04:57 PM
Gh have the same/more ranged firepower coming out of a pod than marines do. 2 assault weapons rather than one and just as many overall weapons.

I cant believe you dont put assault style squads in rhino when you play chaos or marines. I mean, yea, sure, a landraider is always better...and jump packs too, tho they are vulnerable to enemy fire that way. But, seriously. Average table you start 24 inches apart. unless the BC's rides get popped (does happen, tho smoke and using terrain helps, and there are plenty of more important targets to shoot) they will generally make it intact....

deploy:rhinos starts 12 inches onto the table or 24 inches from the enemy depending on deployment
turn 1: rhinos moves forward 12 inches, screening the landraider and using cover if possible. If not, smoke
turn 2: troops disembark 2 inches, move 6, assault 6. If not possible, rhinos move forward further and gets into some trees or behind cover. If also not possible, Oh well; so long as you dont place your rhino like an idiot the troops wont get assaulted if the rhinos get popped (still unlikely since ragnar and a redeemer is coming full of hate and pain, and a GH squad and scout squad are already arrived). Besides, even if somehow you messed up, rhino gets popped, and you get assaulted; you get counterattack and will strike first due to rhino wreck/crater, or simultaneously at worse if they have frag grenades.

Thus, turn 2-3 your into combat and wont often get shot at before hand.

also, saying that space wolf scouts are **** is pure silliness. Coming in from any table edge with a meltagun, full space marine stats (with only a 4+ save, albiet), 2 power swords, a powerfist, and the ability to assault that same turn...your very comments prove the usefulness of it. You would significantly modify your tactics to counter the scouts. that in themselves serves a purpose. The moment you start doing what your opponent wants and expects you to do, you have lost.

Honestly chumb, if you have vassal, maybe we should play a game. Either your so much better than me that I can not comprehend 80% of your criticism as valid, or your so much worse than me that your views on tactics and the space wolves in general are way off. I admit, some of what you say has merit. But decrying half the wolves codex as **** and worthless seems a bit hasty to me. I see diamonds in the rough where you see only coal. The only thing I can think of is our playstyles are so drastically different that we will never see eye to eye.

Fowlplaychiken
09-20-2009, 05:10 PM
List tweaked very slightly.

HQ:
Ragnar Blackmane (mounted in LR)
Total: 240pts

Rune Priest: (Jaws of the World Wolf,some other psychic power) (mounted in GH Squad 2 Drop Pod)
Total: 100pts

What should the second power be? One one hand, living lightning would be good for popping transports to get some bodies for ragnar and the blood claws to kill. On the other hand, storm caller will give the GH squad and my runepriest a 5+ cover save, so that if the drop pod dosent provide all the cover I need im still not super in the open. THis unit wont be deploying in the midst of an enemy army, however, so not sure its needed. Murderous hurricane would be good, since it causes an enemy unit to more or less get fired on by 1-2 imperial guardsman units:-p further, they are then treating all terrain as difficult and dangerous. However, its weak and wont likely do much. Finally, tempests wrath would seem good, except deep striking units treat difficult terrain as dangerous anyway? So whats the point?

TROOPS:
Grey Hunters Pack 1 (x10): 150pts (mounted in LR)
2x meltagun
Power Weapon
Mark of the Wolf
Total: 185pts

Gray Hunter Pack 2 (x7)
1x Meltagun
Power Weapon
Mark of the Wolf
Drop pod
Total: 175pts

Blood Claw Pack 1 (x9)
flamer: free
Power Weapon
Rhino
Total: 185pts

Blood Claw Pack 2 (x9)
flamer
Power Weapon
Rhino
Total: 185pts

ELITES:
Wolf Scouts Pack (x7)
Meltagun
Power Weapon x2
Total: 145pts

Wolf Guard Pack (x5)
1x Power Fist (GH Pack 1 LR)
1x Terminator Armor, Power fist (GH Pack 2)
1x Power fist combi melta (Blood claw pack 1)
1x Power fist combi melta (Blood Claw pack 2)
1x Power Fist, combi melta (Scout pack 1)
Total: 210pts

HEAVY SUPPORT:

Long Fang Squad 1 (x6)
3x Heavy Bolter
2x Lascannon
Total: 155pts

Long Fang Squad 2 (x6)
3x Heavy Bolter
2x Lascannon
Total: 155pts

Land Raider Redeemer
Multi Melta
Extra Armor
Total: 265pts

GRAND TOTAL: 2000pts

Chumbalaya
09-20-2009, 06:29 PM
Gh have the same/more ranged firepower coming out of a pod than marines do. 2 assault weapons rather than one and just as many overall weapons.

It's more about range. A Rhino mounted Tac Squad has a multi-melta, so it is able to threaten vehicles up to 24", making it easier to camp on an objective and support your army. Meltas are fairly short ranged and force you into getting close, which would be bad with a unit carrying your super awesome Rune Priest.


I cant believe you dont put assault style squads in rhino when you play chaos or marines. I mean, yea, sure, a landraider is always better...and jump packs too, tho they are vulnerable to enemy fire that way. But, seriously. Average table you start 24 inches apart. unless the BC's rides get popped (does happen, tho smoke and using terrain helps, and there are plenty of more important targets to shoot) they will generally make it intact....

I used to, back when it was good (3rd ed Rhino Rush ;) ). Nowadays, being exposed for a turn like that is asking for trouble, especially against a mech army. You can start 24" apart at least, your opponent has 12" of DZ to work within. I would expect BCs to get in assault at the earliest, provided your opponent has obliged you by letting his units sit still for a turn while you're knocking on his door.


deploy:rhinos starts 12 inches onto the table or 24 inches from the enemy depending on deployment
turn 1: rhinos moves forward 12 inches, screening the landraider and using cover if possible. If not, smoke
turn 2: troops disembark 2 inches, move 6, assault 6. If not possible, rhinos move forward further and gets into some trees or behind cover. If also not possible, Oh well; so long as you dont place your rhino like an idiot the troops wont get assaulted if the rhinos get popped (still unlikely since ragnar and a redeemer is coming full of hate and pain, and a GH squad and scout squad are already arrived). Besides, even if somehow you messed up, rhino gets popped, and you get assaulted; you get counterattack and will strike first due to rhino wreck/crater, or simultaneously at worse if they have frag grenades.

They can deploy further back, focus on the GH and other real threats before working over the BCs when they decide to show up. Feeding them bait is also an option, or just smashing them with a superior assault unit (then WS3 hurts bad).


also, saying that space wolf scouts are **** is pure silliness. Coming in from any table edge with a meltagun, full space marine stats (with only a 4+ save, albiet), 2 power swords, a powerfist, and the ability to assault that same turn...your very comments prove the usefulness of it. You would significantly modify your tactics to counter the scouts. that in themselves serves a purpose. The moment you start doing what your opponent wants and expects you to do, you have lost.

It's not that difficult to counter them and maintain your plans, quite easy for a mech army. My IG for example have plenty of spare bodies to block up board edge while still firing their autocannons or they all mount up and get where they need to be with meltas, Demolisher cannons, flamers, and so on. Wolf Scouts work against gunlines, and gunlines are bad. They look neat on paper, but their slowness, unreliability, and the ease at which they are countered puts them in the bin for me. If they could outflank a cyclone WG termie then we may have some fun with them ;)


Honestly chumb, if you have vassal, maybe we should play a game. Either your so much better than me that I can not comprehend 80% of your criticism as valid, or your so much worse than me that your views on tactics and the space wolves in general are way off. I admit, some of what you say has merit. But decrying half the wolves codex as **** and worthless seems a bit hasty to me. I see diamonds in the rough where you see only coal. The only thing I can think of is our playstyles are so drastically different that we will never see eye to eye.

I apologize if I was being unclear, I hope I have explained myself adequately. I never really got into vassal, it just didn't feel the same, I though it got C&D'd, but I'd be happy to try it out. I just play a lot with really competitive armies and a like-minded group so I can get lots of practice in with every army and figure out what works and what doesn't. I didn't say half the wolf book was bad, quite the opposite, just BCs and wolf scouts and Ulrik are bleh, everything else has its uses. Anything can work in a friendly game, but I'm more into competitive gaming so I pretty much filter out everything beyond it. Besides, people don't need advice on playing friendlies ;)

Fowlplaychiken
09-20-2009, 06:55 PM
No worries mate, good criticism, there. Yes, IG have more tanks and bodies than god, and nothing short of an army of meltaweapons can really counter them, other than assaulting (assault hurts tank batallions bad due to allocation). However, vs that same IG army, the rhinos and dudes inside are doomed anyway and so a MM is worthless. Further, MM's force assault troops to stay stationary. MM in each tac squad is great for my shootey salamanders. Its bad for the close combat, up close and hack and slash space wolves. Best defense for wolves against 6 pie plates and more troops than god is to get into close combat quickly and stay there.

as for an opponent deploying further back, this is true. All you can do is use intervening terrain, scouts coming on with melta from any table edge long or short, and the drop pod to try and break up enemy units and gain time for the bulk of the army to arrive. As for lining a table edge so that the scouts cant come on...they can come on from long or short edge. Even strining guardsman (most numerous infantry unit in the game) out one by one so that theres no room for a model to pass through, it would be difficult to cover the long and short table edges, if neccessary, the drop pod can clear one strung out platoon first turn in order to make room for the scouts second turn. However, I find it unlikely that even 80 guardsman could cover 2 full table edges of a 6"4 board.

Anyway, in essence, if I want to shoot my enemy to death, I would take more GH. However, thats what my sallies are for:-p

mkerr
09-20-2009, 10:37 PM
I prefer Grey Hunters over Blood Claws, but Blood Claws can be fun. In my test games with BCs, I found myself missing the Bolter and missing the +2A on counter-attack. My BCs were devastating when everything worked PERFECTLY, but my GHs were solid even when things didn't go my way.


Latest iteration looks improved, though putting meltas on Blood Claws is a no-no because of BS3.

I wouldn't lose a lot of sleep over a 5pt BS3 Meltagun. A gun that's 17% less reliable than the lauded Space Marine version (but costs 50% less) isn't a bad deal. I'm finding that I almost never need the flamer, but I have needed the meltagun from time to time -- so I'm probably sticking with the meltagun (although I fixed the BS3 thing by moving to GHs).


Dropping your super sweet Priest turn 1 is going to get him dead. I'd sit him back with the Fangs and use Lightning and the DS/jump pack murder power, also a Chooser.

I've been pretty happy with both my long-range and my drop pod Rune Priests. In my last game, I tried out Murderous Hurricane and Tempest's Wrath (with Master of Runes) on my drop pod Rune Priest and both powers were awesome. I have found myself being a bit too agressive with them, but I've only lost them early from Runes of Warding.

I'm probably going to keep running two Rune Priests over the next few weeks (including one in a drop pod).


4 lascannons isn't sufficient AT at range, BC meltas are crap and GH suicide meltas are one-hit wonders, so you'll need some more tank busting. MM/HF Speeders, MM Dreads, and so on would help with heavy armor, autocannons or missile launchers in sufficient numbers can help knock out light armor.

I'm not having any problems at all with light armor (and my last list -- against mostly mech Eldar -- had more meltaguns but a lot fewer power fists than the one we're talking about). This is really a judgement call based on your local area. There's a decent amount of mechanized units in Austin, but not so much that I can't assault when I want to. You don't have to destroy every light tank on turn 1, you just need enough destroyed by turn 2 that you can feed them to Ragnar.


I'll say this, if your opponents let your Blood Claws make it into combat on foot, they're doing it wrong. 10 marines in the open aren't that hard to kill.

Both of my Rhino-based Blood Claws units made it into close combat a turn after Ragnar. Why? Because my opponent focused all of his energy trying to kill Ragnar's Land Raider instead of wiping out the Blood Claws. It's really tough to divert your shooting to deal with the unit that's going to assault you the turn AFTER Ragnar gets there.


Scouts are another noob-catcher unit. It's not a secret that they're coming, so your opponent should be able to prepare for it. Staying outside melta/charge range, smoking up, using cover, having cheap infantry blocking assaults, blocking up the board so you can't get across parts of it, and so on. They can do damage, but you're basically banking on your opponent being an idiot (or very forgetful) ;)

I couldn't disagree more. Wolf Scouts are fantastic -- mainly because of what they "could" do. A real experienced player will most likely ignore Wolf Scouts instead of anything you list above. But your reactions are exactly what I'd expect from most players. Something like this:

a. My opponent is going to assume they are coming in from their board edge 100% of the time and change his deployment and movement to prepare for it (even though 1/3rd of the time, they outflank normally).

b. To prepare for them, he is going to 1) deploy forward (toward my advancing army -- awesome), 2) deploy wide (speading his forces out to deal with 180pts of models -- awesome) or 3) pile up units on his objective (instead of supporting his advance -- awesome).

c. Most importantly, my opponent is changing the way he normally plays his army. He's moving out of his comfort zone and modifying his gameplan just because I have one unit that can come in on his board edge. That's fantastic!

Wolf Scouts are worth it at all levels of play (especially considering 1/3rd of the games are C&C).


If GH had any appreciable firepower at range, like Tactical Marines do, it would be fine to drop them. As is, they're a pretty easy target and knocks out your Rune Priest rather quickly.

There's no difference in "firepower" between the Grey Hunters and Tactical Marines. If anything the Grey Hunters have a touch more. The Space Marines fire 1 special weapon, 7 bolters, 1 bolt pistol (the MM marine) and potentially a combi-weapon. The Grey Hunters have 1 special weapon, 7 bolters, potentially a combi-weapon and whatever the IC has (in this case JotWW or Murderous Hurricane).

I've dropped a Rune Priest in a Drop Pod in my last three games and haven't had my Rune Priest "knocked out" quickly. 10 Marines aren't easy to knock out when the rest of your army is advancing on them.

I really like the Ragnar"pressure cooker" build. You have Ragnar blazing at you in a Land Raider while 2 drop pods land in your backfield (where Ragnar is heading). Your short and long range shooting try to make a mess of the location directly in front of Ragnar so he can assault on turn 2. Your Rhinos move up as well (providing cover) and units that will join the fight on turn 3.

Your opponent has to focus on the Land Raider -- generally without the help of any melta weapons (because that's what you shot at on your first turn). Even an experienced player is going to be tempted to waste some shots on a Landraider with a gazillion attacks on the other side of that assault ramp.

There's something delicious about forcing your opponent to play YOUR way.


My IG for example have plenty of spare bodies to block up board edge while still firing their autocannons or they all mount up and get where they need to be with meltas, Demolisher cannons, flamers, and so on. Wolf Scouts work against gunlines, and gunlines are bad.

People talk a lot about trying to spread out along the board edge, but I've only seen it done twice in tournaments (and both guys got their a$$es handed to them). It's almost impossible to maintain a line of T3 5+ dudes spread 2" apart for 2-3 turns.

I haven't been playing Wolf Guard in my most recent lists (trying out new units), but they were pretty effective in the two games I played (against very competent players). In both games, they supported drop pod Grey Hunters (or drop pod Dreadnoughts) turning the tide in close combats.

More importantly, they are a different type of unit. Most players won't get to play or play against a unit that can come in the opposing board edge. So take them from time to time because they are fun and kinda cool.


I just play a lot with really competitive armies and a like-minded group so I can get lots of practice in with every army and figure out what works and what doesn't.

You've had a lot of practice with or against the new Space Wolves? We had the codex a week before the stores got the "black box" and I've only managed to get in a half dozen games with them. I'm still learning what works and what doesn't in the list -- two weeks ago, I was still taking Blood Claws for goodness sake!

We also tend to forget how much of 40K is regional. I'm used to building armies to deal with the good players in my neck of the woods (and the armies I expect to find at major tournaments -- more based on WHO is playing them than WHAT they are playing).

In Austin, I'm still not feeling the need to put a crazy amount of anti-tank in my army (or a crazy amount of mechanized units) to win games yet -- and I'd wager that Austin is one of the most competitive 40K communities in the world. The amount of mechanized IG is definitely trending up, but Chaos and Space Marines haven't changed that much in the last six months. But I'm still seeing competitive Tyranid, Ork and Daemon armies -- as well as some fantastic non-mechanized IG.

So my advice is to decide at what level you want to compete with the armies around you. Build a list that works well in the environment, but don't build it to deal with a specific opponent (or type of opponent). Add some units that you love and some elements that will be fun for you (and your opponent). That will leave you with an army that you'll want to play.

I've tried a ton of different builds from the new Space Wolves codex and I haven't been disappointed yet. It definitely doesn't have the depth of the IG or SM codices, but there's still room for some fun armies.

-- mkerr

Fowlplaychiken
09-21-2009, 09:44 AM
I prefer Grey Hunters over Blood Claws, but Blood Claws can be fun. In my test games with BCs, I found myself missing the Bolter and missing the +2A on counter-attack. My BCs were devastating when everything worked PERFECTLY, but my GHs were solid even when things didn't go my way.



I wouldn't lose a lot of sleep over a 5pt BS3 Meltagun. A gun that's 17% less reliable than the lauded Space Marine version (but costs 50% less) isn't a bad deal. I'm finding that I almost never need the flamer, but I have needed the meltagun from time to time -- so I'm probably sticking with the meltagun (although I fixed the BS3 thing by moving to GHs).



I've been pretty happy with both my long-range and my drop pod Rune Priests. In my last game, I tried out Murderous Hurricane and Tempest's Wrath (with Master of Runes) on my drop pod Rune Priest and both powers were awesome. I have found myself being a bit too agressive with them, but I've only lost them early from Runes of Warding.

I'm probably going to keep running two Rune Priests over the next few weeks (including one in a drop pod).



I'm not having any problems at all with light armor (and my last list -- against mostly mech Eldar -- had more meltaguns but a lot fewer power fists than the one we're talking about). This is really a judgement call based on your local area. There's a decent amount of mechanized units in Austin, but not so much that I can't assault when I want to. You don't have to destroy every light tank on turn 1, you just need enough destroyed by turn 2 that you can feed them to Ragnar.



Both of my Rhino-based Blood Claws units made it into close combat a turn after Ragnar. Why? Because my opponent focused all of his energy trying to kill Ragnar's Land Raider instead of wiping out the Blood Claws. It's really tough to divert your shooting to deal with the unit that's going to assault you the turn AFTER Ragnar gets there.



I couldn't disagree more. Wolf Scouts are fantastic -- mainly because of what they "could" do. A real experienced player will most likely ignore Wolf Scouts instead of anything you list above. But your reactions are exactly what I'd expect from most players. Something like this:

a. My opponent is going to assume they are coming in from their board edge 100% of the time and change his deployment and movement to prepare for it (even though 1/3rd of the time, they outflank normally).

b. To prepare for them, he is going to 1) deploy forward (toward my advancing army -- awesome), 2) deploy wide (speading his forces out to deal with 180pts of models -- awesome) or 3) pile up units on his objective (instead of supporting his advance -- awesome).

c. Most importantly, my opponent is changing the way he normally plays his army. He's moving out of his comfort zone and modifying his gameplan just because I have one unit that can come in on his board edge. That's fantastic!

Wolf Scouts are worth it at all levels of play (especially considering 1/3rd of the games are C&C).



There's no difference in "firepower" between the Grey Hunters and Tactical Marines. If anything the Grey Hunters have a touch more. The Space Marines fire 1 special weapon, 7 bolters, 1 bolt pistol (the MM marine) and potentially a combi-weapon. The Grey Hunters have 1 special weapon, 7 bolters, potentially a combi-weapon and whatever the IC has (in this case JotWW or Murderous Hurricane).

I've dropped a Rune Priest in a Drop Pod in my last three games and haven't had my Rune Priest "knocked out" quickly. 10 Marines aren't easy to knock out when the rest of your army is advancing on them.

I really like the Ragnar"pressure cooker" build. You have Ragnar blazing at you in a Land Raider while 2 drop pods land in your backfield (where Ragnar is heading). Your short and long range shooting try to make a mess of the location directly in front of Ragnar so he can assault on turn 2. Your Rhinos move up as well (providing cover) and units that will join the fight on turn 3.

Your opponent has to focus on the Land Raider -- generally without the help of any melta weapons (because that's what you shot at on your first turn). Even an experienced player is going to be tempted to waste some shots on a Landraider with a gazillion attacks on the other side of that assault ramp.

There's something delicious about forcing your opponent to play YOUR way.



People talk a lot about trying to spread out along the board edge, but I've only seen it done twice in tournaments (and both guys got their a$$es handed to them). It's almost impossible to maintain a line of T3 5+ dudes spread 2" apart for 2-3 turns.

I haven't been playing Wolf Guard in my most recent lists (trying out new units), but they were pretty effective in the two games I played (against very competent players). In both games, they supported drop pod Grey Hunters (or drop pod Dreadnoughts) turning the tide in close combats.

More importantly, they are a different type of unit. Most players won't get to play or play against a unit that can come in the opposing board edge. So take them from time to time because they are fun and kinda cool.



You've had a lot of practice with or against the new Space Wolves? We had the codex a week before the stores got the "black box" and I've only managed to get in a half dozen games with them. I'm still learning what works and what doesn't in the list -- two weeks ago, I was still taking Blood Claws for goodness sake!

We also tend to forget how much of 40K is regional. I'm used to building armies to deal with the good players in my neck of the woods (and the armies I expect to find at major tournaments -- more based on WHO is playing them than WHAT they are playing).

In Austin, I'm still not feeling the need to put a crazy amount of anti-tank in my army (or a crazy amount of mechanized units) to win games yet -- and I'd wager that Austin is one of the most competitive 40K communities in the world. The amount of mechanized IG is definitely trending up, but Chaos and Space Marines haven't changed that much in the last six months. But I'm still seeing competitive Tyranid, Ork and Daemon armies -- as well as some fantastic non-mechanized IG.

So my advice is to decide at what level you want to compete with the armies around you. Build a list that works well in the environment, but don't build it to deal with a specific opponent (or type of opponent). Add some units that you love and some elements that will be fun for you (and your opponent). That will leave you with an army that you'll want to play.

Stuff you said about wolf scouts and tactics, making your opponent play your way, etc; exactly what I was trying to say. You said it better.
I've tried a ton of different builds from the new Space Wolves codex and I haven't been disappointed yet. It definitely doesn't have the depth of the IG or SM codices, but there's still room for some fun armies.

-- mkerr


Mkerr, I cant agree more with pretty much everything you have said, although I do have to point out that noone gets +2 attacks on counterattack:-p

everything else seems spot on. Ive switched the meltaguns back on the BC's and dropped the combi melta's on the BC's wolf guard body guard. Makes the total army AT = 6 meltagun, 1 MM, 4 lascannons. Also, powerfist in every squad. I have to agree with what you said about the blood claws; they generally get into cc the turn after ragnar, and get ignored because ragnars squad is just more of a threat. Power fist + power weapon + ragnar with power weapon + model with MOTW and normal guys = scary attack profile. I do agree that I should consider swapping the Blood Claws out in exchange for more Grey Hunters; I would have to drop all the combi weapons and lose a fist somewhere to make up points, possibly, or else run smaller than normal squads (9 man instead of 10, including wolf guard) but I could make it happen. Im going to skip with the Blood Claws for now, because thats the models I have. If they end up not pulling their weight, I will invest in further GH.

Thanks for the imput:)

mkerr
09-21-2009, 11:32 AM
Mkerr, I cant agree more with pretty much everything you have said, although I do have to point out that noone gets +2 attacks on counterattack:-p

I meant that the BCs don't get their Berserk Charge bonus with counter-attack. So if they get charged, you are looking at +1A at best with their WS3. At this point in my test games, I'll only take BC-based units with a Wolf Priest (in my last game I had some fun with Skyclaws).

I can't wait to hear how it plays. My Ragnar test game was a ton of fun!

-- mkerr

Fowlplaychiken
09-21-2009, 12:01 PM
No worries mkerr, misunderstood. I mean, GH and BC are the same in CC other than the reduced weapon skill of one of the BC, and the increased attack of 1 on the charge of the BC. I do agree that having bolter + bp + cc weapon makes GH more flexible, and that the ws4 is important. Probably they are better overall. However, im working with the models I have atm. Also, its cooler/fluffier to have 20 blood enraged guys charging the enemy at ragnars flanks:-D Im usually pretty careful to make sure that I get the charge and not my enemy, but of course GH are going to be more forgiving of mistakes.

Im at work so cant examine the dex, but why a wolf priest with the BC better than wolf priest with GH? I forget the wolf priests abilities, other than a 4+ crozius invuln.

mkerr
09-21-2009, 01:51 PM
Im at work so cant examine the dex, but why a wolf priest with the BC better than wolf priest with GH? I forget the wolf priests abilities, other than a 4+ crozius invuln.

The Wolf Priest gives the unit Oath of War (Preferred Enemy against one "type" of unit -- infantry, monstrous creatures, etc.). So as long as the WP is alive and you are fighting your preferred enemy, you get to re-roll misses in close combat. That goes a long way to making the WS3 palatable.

-- mkerr

Fowlplaychiken
09-21-2009, 02:21 PM
In order to fit two of them I would have to drop the rune priest. Of course, I would also drop two wolf guard (dont need one with a chaplain leading). Think its worth it? Would certainly enhance the killeyness of each squad significantly, especially on the charge, but at the same time, rune priest scares many people.

mkerr
09-21-2009, 06:42 PM
In order to fit two of them I would have to drop the rune priest. Of course, I would also drop two wolf guard (dont need one with a chaplain leading). Think its worth it? Would certainly enhance the killeyness of each squad significantly, especially on the charge, but at the same time, rune priest scares many people.

Now you are getting into minor tweaks that really depend on your style of play. Personally, I put MotW in every squad that can take it. And I won't take a Claws-unit without a Wolf Priest.

-- mkerr

Fowlplaychiken
09-21-2009, 11:09 PM
Yea, duno. List is solid as it stands..I have to drop the two MOTW, all combi weapons, the 2 BC Wolfguard, and the rune priest in order to field two wolfpriest to stick in each BC squad, and throw another guy in the drop pod to replace the loss of the rune priest (I hate understrength squads).

May keep it as it is, try the bc, and drop them later if they turn out fail.

Fowlplaychiken
09-22-2009, 10:57 PM
After another test game with the most recent manifestation of this list in which I lost (If game had ended turn 5 or 7 I would have won/tied, but it ended turn 6 so lost by one KP to a skilled mostly- khorne demon army) I have redone the list a bit. Havent playtested the new manifestation yet but on a plus note, other than the priests I have all the models. Odd not to field any rune priest but I feel like, while they are good and scary, they are over rated against most enemies, and overhyped.

HQ:
Ragnar Blackmane (mounted in LR)
Total: 240pts

Wolf Priest 1 (in BC Pack1)
Total: 100pts

Wolf Priest 2 (In BC Pack 2)
Total: 100pts

TROOPS:
Grey Hunters Pack 1 (x10): 150pts (mounted in LR)
2x meltagun
MotW
Power Weapon
Total: 185pts

Gray Hunter Pack 2 (x8)
1x Meltagun
Power Weapon
Drop pod
Total: 175pts

Blood Claw Pack 1 (x8)
1x Meltagun
Power Weapon
Rhino
Total: 175pts

Blood Claw Pack 2 (x8)
1x Meltagun
Power Weapon
Rhino
Total: 175pts

ELITES:
Wolf Scouts Pack (x7)
Meltagun
Power Weapon x2
Total: 145pts

Wolf Guard Pack (x5): 90pts
1x Power Fist (GH Pack 1 LR)
1x Power Fist, combi melta (BC Pack 1)
1x Power Fist (BC Pack 2)
1x Terminator Armor, Power fist (GH Pack 2)
1x Power Fist, combi melta: (Scout pack 1)
Total: 205pts

Venerable Dreadnought: 165pts
Heavy flamer instead of SB
Multi Melta
Extra Armor
Wolftooth Necklace
Drop Pod
Total: 235pts

HEAVY SUPPORT:
Land Raider Redeemer
Multi Melta
Extra Armo
Total: 265pts

GRAND TOTAL: 2000pts

Fowlplaychiken
09-24-2009, 02:22 PM
Dropped the dread necklace for melta bombs on one wolf priest and wolftail talisman on the other, making them unique.

Any opinion on the redone list overall. It seems overall more killey than the previous list, but may lack AT without the 4 long fang lascannon. Has lots of melta but mostly close range:-/ I am concerned at the AT.

Any thoughts? if I run into an IG armored company, am I hosed?