Grey Knight 1500 list - what do you think?

[Malok1013]

HQ:
Castellan Crowe
Troops:

10x purifiers - 7 halberds, 1 psycannon, 1 incinerator. KoF w/ master crafted halberd+master crafted stormbolter+digital weapons. squad has psybolt ammo. dedicated transport: rhino with extra amour.
5x Purifiers - 3 halberds, 1 incinerator. KoF w/ master crafted halberd+master crafted stormbolter+digital weapons. squad has psybolt ammo. Dedicated transport: razorback w/ hunter killer missile, storm bolter, lascannon+twin linked plasmagun.

Elites:
5x Paladins - 1 apothecary, 3x master crafted force falchions, 2x master crafted halberds, 4x master crafted stormbolters, 1x narthecium (for apothecary). squad has psybolt ammo.
Heavy Support:

Dreadnought - double twin linked autocannons+psybolt ammo (psyfelman dread, or whatever its called)
Dreadnought - Left Arm->Nemesis Doomfist w/Heavy Flamer, Right Arm->Twin Linked Lascannon. Psyflame ammo.


Total cost:1497/1500 points.
This is just something I thought up, haven't actually put it together yet; looking for some input before I start buying for a list. So yeah, tell me what you think of this and give me some suggestions, if ya got any.

[DarkLink]

You've got a lot of excess upgrades, and you've left a lot of heavy weapon slots open.

First off, Psybolt Ammo is not worth it on small squads, and especially not on five man units. You just don't get any real benefit from it. It's a decent upgrade on a squad with 8+ Storm Bolters, but otherwise skip it.

On the Paladins, the Apothecary upgrade is overpriced even on a full squad of ten. It doesn't protect against lascannons and meltaguns, which is what will be killing your Paladins.

Similarly, master-crafting every single weapon on the entire squad is a waste of points, especially the storm bolters. Same thing with the Purifiers, drop most of those, and the digital weapons as well.

Falchions are generally inferior to Halberds, and more expensive. You also must have at least one hammer per squad.

Extra Armor isn't worth it on Rhinos. Grey knights spend most of their time walking around anyways so that they can shoot, you can afford to have a shaken vehicle every once and a while. Too many points for too little benefit.

On the Razorback, the extra Storm Bolter isn't worth it. The Hunter Killer missile probably isn't, either.

Heavy Flamer on the Dreadnought is probably worthless as well. I can't imagine you'd get to shoot it, like, ever, so just keep it as a Storm Bolter where it can actually do something. And no, psybolt ammo isn't worth it for just a single Storm Bolter.

Dropping the TL Lascannon on the Dreadnought in favor of a single TL Autocannon with psybolt ammo is probably a more competitive idea as well. Psycannons are a better source of anti-tank for things like Land Raiders than a Lascannon anyways.

That saves you like 250pts of unnecessary upgrades. That's enough for another Purifier squad in a Razorback. You can also now go back and add in some upgrades you really should take as well.


Add in another 5-man Purifier squad with a TL Heavy Bolter Razorback with psybolt ammo and 2 psycannons, two halberds and a daemonhammer.

Put a pair of Psycannons on the Paladins. Non-negotiable.

Now replace the Incinerators on the other Purifier squads with a Psycannon, and we're out of points. Incinerators are nice, but they're not actually all that useful. Psycannons are better in basically every way, will cause more wounds over the course of the game, and will let you open tanks.




So, this is what we've got:

Crowe (150)

5 Paladins, 2 Master Crafted Psycannons, 1 Hammer, 4 Halberds (325)

10 Purifiers, 1 Hammer, 7 Halberds, 1 Psycannon, 1 Incinerator, Psybolts (289)
Rhino, Searchlight (41)

5 Purifiers, 1 Hammer, 2 Halberds, 2 Psycannon (149)
Razorback, Las/TL Plasma, Searchlight (81)

5 Purifiers, Hammer, 2 Halberds, 2 Psycannons (149)
Razorback, TL Heavy Bolter, Psybolt Ammo, Searchlight (51)

Dreadnought, 2 TL Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo (135)

Dreadnought, 1 TL Autocannon, Psybolt Ammo (130)

Total: 1500




We dropped a bunch of minimally useful upgrades, and used those points to add 5 more Purifiers, another Razorback, and 6 Psycannons. That's a lot more firepower and durability, without really changing how your list functions other than the removal of most of the Incinerators in favor of Psycannons. Again, it's not that Incinerators are bad, just that Psycannons are better.

Moral of the story: Mind the ounces and you won't have to worry about the pounds.



Edit:
All said, I kinda like this list. If I ever try out Crowe and Purifier spam, I'd probably do something kinda like this.

[Malok1013]

Thank you very, VERY much for the feedback there. In case you couldn't tell, I'm quite new to 40k. Should I give the hammers to the Knight of Flames?

[DarkLink]

It depends if you have the points to master craft the hammers. The hammers let you hurt things that nothing else can in CC, like Dreadnoughts, so every GK squad needs one and master crafting some of them is a good idea if you have the points.

However, if you cast a psychic power and suffer Perils, the KoF gets taken first, and you don't want to lose your hammer. So if you don't have the points to master craft the hammer, there's no reason to put it on the KoF, so don't.

If you take a Strike Squad or Interceptor squad, though, only the Justicar has 2 attacks base, so it's worth the minor risk of losing your hammer to perils in that case.





For GKs in general, most units are very good overall. Strike Squads and Interceptors work best in large units, but otherwise you can make just about anything work. Most of your options come down to wargear.

For nemesis force weapons, I've already mentioned the 'one hammer per squad' rule. In large Terminator/Paladin squads, I take two. Staves are also a good buy, but only for units that will see a lot of combat. That generally means Terminator/Paladins, but sometimes it can be worth it on Purifiers or Interceptors as well. Just experiment to see what you like.

Between Swords, Falchions and Halberds, Halberds are the best. Killing your foe before they get to hit is better defense than a minor increase to your invulnerable save, and helps you out with attrition better than Falchions do for cheaper. So Halberds are almost always better than Falchions. When they're free or cheap, Halberds are better than swords, so take them on Purifiers, Terminators and Paladins. On Strike Squads and Interceptors, though, the upgrade is too expensive for models with only 1 attack, so stick with Swords.


For guns, Psilencers are worthless. Just ignore them.

Incinerators are good, but compared to psycannons there's no competition. You'll probably only get to shoot an Incinerator once, maaaybe twice per game at best due to their limited range, and they're not very good against vehicles. Psycannons can easily accumulate more shots over the course of a game due to their longer range, are higher strength and better against single model units, have the potential to ignore armor, and can kill any tank in the game. They just outclass Incinerators in almost every way. Every GK list needs lots and lots of psycannons.



And since Psycannons only have a 24" range, Razorbacks and Dreadnoughts with TL autocannons are great for letting you shoot opponents that are trying to avoid you. TL Autocannons are super-efficient at providing long range fire support, and a couple Dreadnoughts makes pretty much every GK list better.




For HQs, Crowe is obviously necessary for your list. If you want to branch out in the future, Grand Masters, Librarians, Driago, Coteaz and Xenos Inquisitors are all good options. Grand Masters and Xenos Inquisitors get rad/psykotroke grenades, and the Librarian gets Sanctuary, Shrouding, and a couple other powers.



Some general tactical advice: Keep your army together. Paladin/Terminators are either up front soaking up firepower, or acting as a scary counter-assault unit to keep your opponent at bay. Purifiers/Strike Squads/Interceptors go on foot for the most part to maximize your shooting, but you can hide them or stick them in a vehicle if they take too many casualties. Only get in your transport to either protect the squad or to allow them to move faster. Typically I only start them in the transport and drive to midfield turn 1, then walk until turn 5-6 and jump them back in a transport to go grab objectives. Dreadnoughts obviously stick in the back and shoot stuff, though you can use them to tarpit certain units to great effect as well.

There are certain times when you will want to split your army up, say late game to grab objectives, but generally you want to stick together near the center of the board to prevent your opponent from killing you piecemeal.


Target priority #1 is any nasty enemy units that can really threaten you, meaning either enemy assault units like Thunderwolf Cavalry or Land Raiders full of Terminators, or shooty units like Long Fangs or Devestators. Target priority #2 is to open up enemy transports. You can't kill your opponent if you can't shoot or assault them. Once you've whittled down those threats, start working on the rest of the army.


Beyond that, it's just a matter of playing the game.

[Malok1013]

Thank you so much for all of this information and such.

[newtoncain]

I like the non-rifleman dread you have in there.

[DarkLink]

Yeah, it's 'non-optimal', since psyrifle dreads so perfectly cover one of the Grey Knight's major weaknesses extremely efficiently, but it's not like non-psyrifle dreads are bad so it's not a big deal. A multi-melta or assault cannon dreadnought is pretty good as well, nice and flexible for cheap.

[Loshkins]

None rifleman dreads are extremely flexible and always make their points back. For a cheap 130 points he is always (except maybe turn 1) doing something.