2k DE - all comers

[Angelofblades]

Fiddling around with a DE list for all comers approach

Archon - 160
Agoniser, Blast pistol, Combat Drugs, Phantom Grenade Launcher, Shadowfield

2 Haemonc - 125
1x Liquifier guns, 1x Shattershard

4 Blastborns - 183
4 Blasters
Venom
xcan, NS

4 Blastborns - 183
4 Blasters
Venom
xcan, NS

8 Wyches - 211
Hek w/ Agoniser
1x Hydra gauntlet, Haywiregrenades
Raider
FF, Sails

8 Wyches - 211
Hek w/ Agoniser
1x Hydra gauntlet, Haywiregrenades
Raider
FF, Sails

8 Wyches - 211
Hek w/ Agoniser
1x Hydra gauntlet, Haywiregrenades
Raider
FF, Sails

3 Wracks - 105
Venom
xcan, NS

3 Wracks - 105
Venom
xcan, NS

Ravager - 125
NS, FF

Ravager - 125
NS, FF

Razorwing - 175
NS, FF, xcan, Dark lances

3 Reaver Jetbikes - 81
Blaster

[Wolf Brother Hellstrom]

This is a pretty standard DE list except for a few things:

1)why the wracks? the dont seem to fit in this. wracks are usually for a webway list or heamon cult lists. i would drop them in favor of another squad of wyches or thow in some incubi in a venom or even2 more squads of reavers

2)alot of people are going to harp on this but drop the haywire grenades on the wyches. you have plenty of anti-tank with the blasterborns and ravagers and if your are assualting wyches into vehicles you are using them wrong or you are already winning!

ok so you blew up a rhino or even a land raider great! oh no now its your opponents turn and all your wyches are shot to pieces. i have played alot of games and maybe used the haywire grenades once or twice. use the points from the haywires and wracks and get one or two more squads of something better

hope this helps, in the end use whatever works for you

[tabyrd]

@Hellstrom, As a long time DE player, I would have to argue all your points about haywire grenades on wyches and 'plenty of anti-tank'.

2 expensive blasterborn that have limited range in an AV10 open topped vehicle? If they get exploded, it's a good bet half the squad inside is dead and if they fly up turn 1 and jump out to get in range to fire, they are out in the open and dead. NS don't protect against well placed 48" weapons and if they do, you are out of range in your turn to even fire most times. One decent round of shooting from your opponent can literally take half your anti-tank shooting out of the equation. AV11 open topped ravagers and an almost never get a cover save flyer are not expected to live long if your magic dark lances don't shut down their long range firepower, which sadly to say can happen quite often. In fact all it takes is a few AV12 vehicles and some mediocre rolls and your 'plenty of anti-tank' will do jack squat. In most cases, DE have an over abundance of anti-infantry attacks, but not enough anti-tank. Wyches make a decent addition to that weakness, but you have to play smart to avoid throwing all your troops into the grinder without adequete recovery.

Wracks make perfect sense in his list. They are in there to provide cheap scoring units and to add more venoms to the list. They fit any list with a haemonculus looking to add in more venoms. 95 pts is cheap.

I've run similar lists to this with mixed success. The ability to blitz with your wych squads and provide a imminent threat takes the heat off backfield shooting. FNP wyches (provided they pass their pinning tests when you get blown out of your ride) are then well positioned to attack vehicles and/or nearby infantry.

Some of the items I see...
no haemonculus with the archon/wyche squad. If you don't roll a pain token for drugs, that vehicle is very susceptible to casualties from vehicle explosions. Perhaps you put it into reserves?

Archon's equipped PGL. Since he's assumedly riding with the wyches, what's the purpose? Defensive grenades? Only time he needs a PGL is if he's buffing a unit without grenades like incubi or something. That's 25pts saved. Actually equipped as he is, I might suggest going with the alternate and cheaper succubus. Sure you lose the shadowfield, but if you don't need all the fancy wargear and are just looking to add a little beef to a wyche squad, the succubus is actually a nifty little fighter. I personally perfer to beef up my archon with a huskblade and soultrap, not because it's great, but because when it does work, it's so very satisfying to trap someone's soul. muwhahaha. oops, back on topic.

Personal preference, agonizers on wyches. Statistically, you are rolling less wounds with the agonizer than the venom blade and since they are at the same initiative as the regular girls, those PW attacks are easily wound allocated out to where even if you do wound, you are most likely not killing at maximum potential. In my experience, t just doesn't seem to usually to pan out. I'm a fan of just a venom blade for cheap, or a venom blade + blast pistol for the same 20pt cost. That pistol will sometimes be the difference in charging a moving fast rhino vs shooting it first and then hopefully charging a better result.

Razorwing. These things are great because of their missiles. Nothing like dropping four large blasts on a squad and wiping them out, however, with all the venoms, you really are paying a premium on that thing for more anti-infantry that are probably better spent elsewhere. It's a toss up because from a modeling perspective, the fighter is awesome, but it's just not that pt efficient. Dropping to a 3rd ravager frees up another 50-60pts.

4xblasterborn squads. It's nice to have that 4th blaster in there because I don't know how many times I've whiffed with 3xblasters, but in reality, these guys are expensive and a high priority target for a smart opponent. Putting even more points in them just makes them that more risky when the vehicle explodes. Why not try and spread the risk around by getting a 3rd squad of 3? dropping one guy from each nets you 54pts.

Finally the bike squad. While I love bikes, I think a 3 man bike squad, with a blaster no less is a waste. Sure it's cheap, but what is it's purpose? With everything having NS, you run the risk of the short range stuff being unable to find a target. if the bikes are nearby trying to snipe with their blaster, guess who'll get shot. With only 1 casualty, you run the real test of breaking. Plus, with only 1 special weapon, you aren't going to being hitting reliably to make that unit a viable threat. I'd rather shave those points and along with the savings from the bomber, either A) get a 3rd haemonculus for the 3rd wyche squad, (risky though on adding more easy KPs, B) drop the blasterborn down to 3 man squads and try to squeeze in a 3rd squad, or C), fill the bike squad up to 6 for double the weapons and a little more durability. They do become more of a threat, but bikes are finesse unit and you need to remember that when using them. I prefer heatlances because sometimes you need that AP1 on the vehicle damage chart.

Just my .02, hope its helpful.

-Thomas

[Angelofblades]

@tabyrd

Thanks for the indepth response.

I used to run 3 man blasterborn squads in Venoms, but it's just like you said, 3 was simply just not enough. It's the same let down from ravagers, where 3 shots, still ends up bouncing off AV 11 more often than not. Makes me wish ravagers were twin linked...

You make a point of the PGL, it's not really necessary ...

Not sure where I could get another 25 pts to throw in the extra Haemonc...

Or I could use the points to throw in a 4th bike to give the squad another body...