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sukigod
09-22-2009, 01:05 PM
I've got a 2k tourny coming up soon (3 weeks) and this is what I hope to have painted up. There's about 10 models to finish and I should be done by then. I'm not interested so much in what doesn't work, or what you would replace with what (I don't have the time to switch out models) - what I'm looking for is "what kind of units will effect me most?" , or what will I have a hard time against? At least this way, I can try to avoid certain situations or at least look out for things I'm not aware of in other armies/races.

Here's Red Jack's 2K list. "Heavy Hitter"

HQ: Mega-armoured Warboss w/bosspole
HQ: Big Mek w/KFF

Troops: Boyz Mob - 15 shoota boyz w/Big Shootas (x2)
Troops: Trukk Boyz -10 boyz (room for MAW) Big Shoota, Boarding Plank, RPJ, Reinforced Ram
Troops: Trukk Boyz - 11 boyz + 1x PK Nob w/bosspole - Big Shoota, Boarding Plank, RPJ, Reinforced Ram
Troops: Nobz Mob: 7 Nobs +Painboy+BW - 4 Big Choppas, 3 PKs, Waaagh! Banner, Bosspole. BW: Big Shoota (x3), Kanon, Boarding Plank, 'Ard Case,RPJ, Reinforced Ram
Troops: Deff Dread w/2xCCW, BS, Skorcha

Fast Attack: Da Vulcha Boyz: - 16 Stormboyz + Bozz Zagstruk

Elite: 12 Lootas

Heavy Support: Killer Kans 3x Rokkits
Heavy Support: Looted Wagon - 'Ard Case, Boomgun, Big Shoota (x1), Armor Plates, Grot Riggers, RPJ, Reinforced Ram
Heavy Support: Battlewagon - Big Shoota (x4); Kannon; Armour Plates; Grot Rigger; Red Paint Job

Within a few points of 2000

The Lootas and KFF Big Mek hold up in the open-topped BW as a mobile firebunker, the looted wagon keeping close and both provide fire support. The Mega-Warboss joins a Trukk mob for hell raising duty. The Nobz do what Nobz do, inna Battlewagon. Usually the Dred and Kans lead the Shoota Boyz where they need to go.

Thanks ahead of time for any feedback or ideas on what you think I might have trouble with.

Sukigod

Ghoulio
09-22-2009, 02:40 PM
Its interesting reading this list as it is almost 100% the exact same as mine :P The couple things I would do is:

1) Make the nob transporting BW open topped. That way they can charge out of it after it has moved (so in effect giving them a min of 21" assault, more if that is the Waaagh turn (13" move + 2" disembark + 6" assault)

2) Split the lootas into two different units, that way you can take out two different enemy transports a turn. I just did a 1300pts tourney with my 'Nids and I noticed that it was my single biggest issue...killing enemy transports :)

3) Instead of putting the lootas in the open topped BW why not just put your shootas in there? That gives them 6 big shootas a turn to shoot as well as all the regular shoota shots. You can also use the BW to get them to their objective and they basically wont take any real wounds getting there (and you can still put the Big Mek in there...or you can keep him with the Killa Kans/Deff Dred for the obscured save)

Overall looks like a super fun army to play, and after seeing a bunch of your "work in process" pics it looks like it would be a joy to play against :)

Chumbalaya
09-22-2009, 04:07 PM
Boss must have cybork body.

You've sunk a ton of points into really pointless options. Trukks don't need anything beyond a ram and grot riggers; planks, balls and red paint are all situational and it adds up quick. BW don't need guns, 2 big shootas at most, you want them moving.

A single Dread isn't doing anything, neither are 3 kanz.

It's a little bit of everything here, you have some mech, some kanwall, and some shooting. It needs more focus or your separate elements won't be enough to do their jobs and it ends up one big clusterfrak.

sukigod
09-30-2009, 03:34 PM
Boss must have cybork body.

You've sunk a ton of points into really pointless options. Trukks don't need anything beyond a ram and grot riggers; planks, balls and red paint are all situational and it adds up quick. BW don't need guns, 2 big shootas at most, you want them moving.

A single Dread isn't doing anything, neither are 3 kanz.

It's a little bit of everything here, you have some mech, some kanwall, and some shooting. It needs more focus or your separate elements won't be enough to do their jobs and it ends up one big clusterfrak.


Thanks for giving what was asked... Wait. you didn't.

Since you failed to read more than the list and comment on that, I'll return the favor...

Trukks don't need anything more than Rams and Riggers? Someone seems to have missed the powerklaws inside the trukks. Planks are better than Riggers as the trukks are rarely left disabled rather than asploded. They are made of paper.

BW don't need guns? You obviously missed the dozen lootas on the "Mobile Bunker" which couldn't shoot if I moved it either - yet you failed to point that out. BW's will not always move over 6" either. Once the nobs are offloaded it becomes close combat fire support.

"A single Dread isn't doing anything, neither are 3 kanz."

Hehe, haven't seen this in front of 20 shootas either. What did you see in this list besides upgrades you don't use?

I guess you wanted to let me know that I'll have problems against pretty much everything since I didn't specialize (or did you not see the lack of pk nob bikers...).

Thanks for the advice.

Sukigod

Duke
09-30-2009, 03:50 PM
Well let me first start off with the fact that I don't play Orks, so Im not going to act like I do.

That said let me pose some questions...

Units to fear/ how are you planning to deal with:
- Eldar Seer council on bikes.
- Multiple Land Raider lists?
- Odd tournie missions (Night fight, moving objectives, etc.)

I might think of plan 'B' for the Nobs and Boss, what are you going to do if their transports are taken out of comission early game?

Anyhow I hope this helps get the brain gears churrning some, again I wish I knew more about Orks to give specific advice.

Duke

Chumbalaya
09-30-2009, 04:13 PM
Consider me chastised lol, must have missed that first part. Generally if I'm suggested you change it, it's because such and such units or options aren't the best, so that's a start.

Without a cybork body, your boss can get smushed all too easily. It wouldn't be hard to shift 10 points around and requires no real change on the model.

2 Trukks and a BW are not hard to bring down at 2000 points, even with a KFF. As your only mobile assault elements, they can be targetted early and leave you in a heap of trouble.

15 boyz is awfully small for a slow unit on foot, expect plenty of fire to come their way and cripple them.

The BW won't last long, open-topped plus narrow model = smashed by shots on side armor. And since it's 1 of 2 and the only 1 closing in, expect it to draw plenty of fire on its flanks. It isn't hard to maneuver around with vehicles, especially skimmers.

Walking Dread is bleh, he has no threat at range and while he's very smashy up close, you often won't get that chance since he's so slow.

Kanz are solid, but a squadron of AV11 vehicles isn't hard to pop.

Lootas are good, but it's some 300 points for just 1 unit. Shooty wagons pump out a lot of shots, but nothing to concern vehicles.

Zaggy and crew are not really a problem either. They come in randomly and you have to play a lot of models safely to avoid mishaps. There are plenty of methods to defend against Deep Strikers, hiding in transports that moved, blocking units, spread out to force bad landings, or Mystics. They show up, maybe get to assault something, then get shot to hell like a Slugga unit for 1/3 the cost.

The boomwagon is fun, but it's got poor armor and is unreliable.

Mech armies will give you lots of problems. You really only have Lootas and Kanz to go up against them, maybe the Boomgun but it's rather inaccurate. Nothing stops AV14 beyond PKs, which require your few vehicles to make it intact. You will have to protect your 3 vehicles at all costs, since your army basically hinges on them surviving. With so few, it will be difficult against good armies. Against a similar battleforcey army you'll crush face, like any other Ork list.

Duke
09-30-2009, 04:19 PM
...

Mech armies will give you lots of problems. You really only have Lootas and Kanz to go up against them, maybe the Boomgun but it's rather inaccurate. Nothing stops AV14 beyond PKs, which require your few vehicles to make it intact. You will have to protect your 3 vehicles at all costs, since your army basically hinges on them surviving. With so few, it will be difficult against good armies. Against a similar battleforcey army you'll crush face, like any other Ork list.


This is the same idea that I covered in my post. If Ilined up against you and I had AV 14 I wouldn't be too worried at all. With all the Mech running around I would be careful... Also make sure to note where your opponents Melta spam is at and avoid it (Duh)...cause as Chumbalaya pointed out (and I hinted at) if you get ninja-ed by a melta early game then your done.

Duke

sukigod
09-30-2009, 06:24 PM
Thanks for the feedback, both of ya.

Sorry if I came across a bit harsh, Chumbalaya. Wasn't meant to be mean - your critiques (the second post :) ) as to what I might have problems with are good, just what I was looking for - you too, Duke.

I can most likely spare points for the Cybork Body, and I'll look into what/where I can spare a couple more boyz for the shotoa mob. Although, the idea for these boyz are more for objective sitting/taking than getting dug in fast.

My playing style might not be taken into account either as I have no qualms about holding back and playing safe, huggin terrain, waiting that extra turn to do something. I can be a pretty cautious Ork player.

Typically the Boomgun draws the most firepower first, I don't know why. I've had many opponents literaly spend three turns trying to take it out. The KFF is what keeps it alive (most games) and that seesm to let the trukks/nobz BW survive that 1 or 2 extra turns to get where they need to by. It does differ by game though/

Duke, your mention of the missions as being a louie - yeah, gotta expect that and can't really do much about that. Although the tip about making sure I isolate the Meltas right away (and remove/neutralize) is a good one I hadn't spent much time thinking about.

As for Zaggy - he is kinda there as a test bed unit. I did have Snikrot and Kommandos in there at first and he's my only real "gambler" unit (unless you count the boomwagon) so I wanted to see how he'd do in a tournament setting and what my opponents reaction is.

Not sure if you've seen my battlewagons, they're both pretty big (one custom, the other, modified GW) so the enemy is going to have to work to get side shots {not intentional, just how they're built) - although the amount of terrain is always in question, it's a variable I don't know, never played at this location before.

Someone on another forum posited splitting the lootas into two squads and tossing the shootas inside the BW. This would also make a decent "Plan B" should one or both PK wielding vehicles get popped early.

I'll be doing some test playing next week and put your ideas to play and see how they work out.

Again,

Thanks for the feedback!

mercer
10-01-2009, 07:57 AM
Ok, firstly the Warboss, I agree on cybork body. Everything else Boss wise is fine, but if you've got points combi skorchas are nice and you don't need to work about the crappy ballistic skill.

Big Mek is fine, only thing I would add definately is a boss pole in case those Lootas run once the wagon gets popped. A power klaw could come in handy in case they get assaulted, but I don't think its a must.

15 Boyz on foot is small. I would up it to 20. Also if I remember correctly its 2 special weapons per 10, so you cannot have 2 big shootas unless you take 20 Boyz.

Trukk Boyz are all fine. I wouldn't be inclined to use reinforced ram, the Trukks will get taken out easily and you don't want to invest too much points into them. Boarding planks come in handy with those power klaws and keep your units wrapped up in metal still, good choice ;)

I would add another Deff Dread, drop the Looted Wagon as they cannot always be controlled due to that silly special rule.

Kans are ok, not sure on rokkits as they haven't got the best ballistic skill. I'm sure a big shoota for anti infantry would be better, or perhaps a grotzoka. Something to consider, the Kans are in a squadron and armour 11, squadrons make vehicles weaker.

I'm not keen on Storm Boyz. I don't think moving 12" with 6+ armour save is very good. And if they deep strike they are sitting in the open ready to be shot. Some bikers would be better, but I get the impression your taking them for the special character?

I would be inclined to take 2 loota units in 2 battlewagons.

If the battlewagon is a fire bunker for the lootas I don't see much point in a red paint job because if it moves then the lootas cannot shoot, if it moves more than 6" the kannon cannot shoot. You haven't got the need to get the lootas anywhere fast, so I don't think its needed.

sukigod
10-01-2009, 10:48 AM
Ok, firstly the Warboss, I agree on cybork body. Everything else Boss wise is fine, but if you've got points combi skorchas are nice and you don't need to work about the crappy ballistic skill.

Big Mek is fine, only thing I would add definately is a boss pole in case those Lootas run once the wagon gets popped. A power klaw could come in handy in case they get assaulted, but I don't think its a must.

15 Boyz on foot is small. I would up it to 20. Also if I remember correctly its 2 special weapons per 10, so you cannot have 2 big shootas unless you take 20 Boyz.

Trukk Boyz are all fine. I wouldn't be inclined to use reinforced ram, the Trukks will get taken out easily and you don't want to invest too much points into them. Boarding planks come in handy with those power klaws and keep your units wrapped up in metal still, good choice ;)

I would add another Deff Dread, drop the Looted Wagon as they cannot always be controlled due to that silly special rule.

Kans are ok, not sure on rokkits as they haven't got the best ballistic skill. I'm sure a big shoota for anti infantry would be better, or perhaps a grotzoka. Something to consider, the Kans are in a squadron and armour 11, squadrons make vehicles weaker.

I'm not keen on Storm Boyz. I don't think moving 12" with 6+ armour save is very good. And if they deep strike they are sitting in the open ready to be shot. Some bikers would be better, but I get the impression your taking them for the special character?

I would be inclined to take 2 loota units in 2 battlewagons.

If the battlewagon is a fire bunker for the lootas I don't see much point in a red paint job because if it moves then the lootas cannot shoot, if it moves more than 6" the kannon cannot shoot. You haven't got the need to get the lootas anywhere fast, so I don't think its needed.

Thanks mercer. Dropping the RPJ on the Lootas BW is a smart move, not sure why I stayed with that. This will bick up the points for the Cybork Warboss. The Stormboyz were choosen for Zagstruk, yeah - for fun. The only reason I'm staying with the rokkits on the kans is that's how they're modeled.

I see your point on the ram for the trukks but I've been burned a number of times in the past trying to get past some difficult terrain, only to be left with slogging mega-armor. Hard habbit to break there. I can live with those points.

I think I'll lose two of the lootas to bolster the shoota squad up to 20. I'll also take a look in test play next week about the dred/looted wagon swap. I do kinda like the fire magnet that it seems to be and I can usually live with that. I'll test it out and see.

Thanks again everyone!

mercer
10-01-2009, 11:25 AM
I cannot comment on Zagstruk, but I don't really rate special characters. See how it goes and report back in yeah? Only thing I will say and have said is 6+ armour save for them Storm Boyz in the open is now good, and you need majority of the unit in cover to be granted it. Big unit needs big terrain. You planning on deep striking in? Then they will more than likely get shot become a high prority target.

Do proxy, I'm sure people won't mind if you say look this rokkit is xxx. I do it often and people I play with are cool with it. Give it aago.

I don't think it matters. If I know you've got mega armour in there I will pop the trukk, and lets face it thats not hard.

You need as many lootas as possible. Try not to take from them. Perhaps drop a nob, which btw would function better with cyborg body.

Don't buy things just for a fire magnet - waste of points, you can use them constructively else where.

TBH, for a Ork 2k list I don't think you have a lot really. I'll show you mine if you like? And no worries about the help ;) Drop my blog sometime yeah..