Eldar 2k - which list to choose ??

[Kelmon]

I have a 2k match against tough Marines on friday, so i need some advice on the following list:

Eldrad
Yriel
9 Warlocks: 2xEnhance, Embolden
Serpent: Spirit Stones, Shuriken Cannons

6 Firedragons in Serpent as above
6 Firedragons in Serpent as above

5 Dire Avengers
2x3 JetBikes

7 Warp Spiders including an Exarch with Dual Spinners

1 Falcon with HoliFields, SpiritStone and EML
2 Fire Prisms with SpiritStones and HoloFields

OR

replacing the Falcon and the DAVU for 2 War Walkers with Scatter Lasers (for the OutflankOption) and reducing the Dragons, the Spiders and the Council by 1 member each and taking 8 Harlequins with Kisses, a Shadow Seer and a Fusion Pistol.

My enemy will be the new SW and i intend to use the "All Reserve" Option for my army if i have to go last.

What do you think ??

[Kelmon]

No one any suggestions ??

[Duke]

here are my suggestions:

- Switch yriel for the Avatar.

- 5 Dire Avengers on foot just seems odd. If you want a unit to hold an objective on your side take Rangers
if your going to dire avengers do it right (10 men, exarch w/ bladestorm and 2 shuri cats in Serp with scat las)

- I would only take one unit of dragons, in a serpent with Shuri cannon underslung with a EML on top. With one unit, a falcon and 2 Prisms youll be just fine.

-Warp Spiders are an intersting option...

- I see what your thinking with the jetbikes, but in my experience they don't do much when in small squads. Besides contest/capture last minute objectives. IF you don't get the objectives missions then those are easy kill points.

- the Seer Council is generally best when given some destructor powers... Remember that Singing spears/ Witchblades are NOT power weapons.

Are these the only models that you have acess to? if your playing marines I might have some better suggestions based on what you have access to.

DUKE

[mercer]

I would drop Yriel, I don't think you need two special characters, and if you're after a autarch go for a normal one. Much cheaper.

Dire Avengers on foot? 5 of them?

You want two units of Fire Dragons, people know the damage they can do and will send the big guns after them. If you have one unit then once they're gone they're gone. What other tank threats do you have after them? Not a lot.

What is the Avatar going to do? Walk with the 5 Avengers? Will attract fire power and is short ranged. Only good for a entire foot slogging list.

Make those jetbikes one unit, 3 bikes won't last long.

[Kelmon]

The Avengers ride in the Falcon and make it Scoring ...

Yriel, the Council and Eldrad can take MCs, DPs and Tank squandrons on their own. Due to Eldrads dual Fortune, the council and Yriel can attack different targets...

I wont take an avatar as he would be the sole model on foot

[mercer]

Ah, I missed that. I would give them a Wave Serpent then.

What weapons does the council have to take on tanks and monstrous creatures? Enhance and embolden don't offer anything for anti armour or high toughness models. Am I missing something?

They can onyl attack different targets if a serperate unit, Yriel would have to dettach from the Seer Council.

[avatar8481]

Farseer jetbike fortune doom spirit stones warding
8 warlocks, bikes, 6 destructors, embolden, enhance

2x 5x fire dragons, wave serpent, scatter laser, chin cannon
2x 5x dire avengers wave serpent, bright lance, chin cannon

1x 5x dire avengers, falcon, scatter laser, chin cannon
farseer, fortune, mindwar, warding

2x fire prisms

That's my 2000 points, 7 tank hulls and a giant seer council make most armies cry..though I did lose to a 3-monolith list recently.

[Ghoulio]

@ Mercer: Everyone in that unit has Witch Blades, and witch blades always wound on a 2+ and always count as str 9 against vehicles (singing spears you can shoot at 12" as well). Also, Eldrad's and Yriel's singing spears cound as power weapons (so they always wound on a 2+ and ignore armor saves). With Enhance everyone is also min WS 5 Init 5 which is also good.

Only thing that sucks is just how few attacks you would have as the farseers and warlocks only have 1A each (not including extra hand weapons). Crazy expensive unit as well as it would cost a min of 725pts and at almost half of your armies cost I would wonder if it is worth it.

[mercer]

Thanks for the heads up, I forgot about the singing spears, don't use Warlocks so just checked the codex ;) . Though I wouldn't relie on them for anti tank, do you think a 12" S9 weapon is any good?

[avatar8481]

Thanks for the heads up, I forgot about the singing spears, don't use Warlocks so just checked the codex ;) . Though I wouldn't relie on them for anti tank, do you think a 12" S9 weapon is any good?

It's usually worth throwing a spear or two in a unit for a little more flexibility.

Here's the tactic that's worked for me a lot:

Other guy makes his tank wall, dumps his infantry right in front to shoot. Seer council rides up right in front of the tank wall and infantry, shoot it's destructors at the tank, flaming the intervening infantry at the same time, the spears get thrown at the tank (which might or might not still have guys in it depending on positioning, and those guys might or might not come out). The you assault the tank with one guy (satisfying the 'must assault every model in the unit you shot at' rule for assault) and then multi assault as many other units as you can while staying in coherency.

All of a sudden your one unit has done 5-6 heavy flamer hits to 1-2 infantry units, killing them or running them off the board or so weakening them that they're irrelevant, you're hitting tanks on 4+ most of the time with 3 S9 attacks, and because you multicharged your 'managing' your killyness so you can allocate attacks in such a way as to pretty much guarantee that you'll still be in combat on you opponent's turn. You consolidate/reallocate attacks in their phase to get out of combat and you rinse and repeat.

Seer Council are a wonderful thing. Yeah, it's a 700 point unit that doesn't have power weapons, but compared to 700 points of TH/SS terminators in a landraider it's a much better hammer unit (more mobile, rerolled saves, reroll wounds, only 1 worse on the invuln, S9 vs vehicles not S8, and with 5-6 heavy flamers in the squad.)

Seer Councils and Fire Dragons are what make Eldar competitive at all.

[Kelmon]

No, 12" S9 is not that good. But S9 in a multiple CC where you can re-roll your saves, Yriel kill a squad MEQs on its own and Erldrad and the warlocks take on dreads, tanks and other troops nearby is perfect. They even kill DPs with ease and all MCs with an armour save of 3+. Against those 2+ beasts you have Eldrad and Yriel as the duo of doom. Just soften up your opponent with a bit Fire Prism fire and take on its weaker rear / side with the Warp Spiders or possibly with War Walkers ...

If you go first, he has to shoot down the fortunes WS of the council. If he succeeds, he wants to get rid of it - which is only possible in CC as shooting of all units is simultaneous, so he can not kill the WS and then the council within.
In my turn, Eldrad fortunes Yriel who will bomb away a doomed Squad, and Eldrad and his fortuned council take on whatever they can reach in a multiple CC.
This busies your opponent so much, that you are relativle free to use your Prisms, Dragons, Spiders, and whatever else is included in your list. Yust ensure that your valuable troops are concealed from harm.

Tonight i will use:

Eldrad, Yriel, 8 warlocks (enhance, embolden) in WS with stones and Shuricans
2x5 Dragons in serpent as above

5 Avengers in serpent with stones and BLs
2x3 Jetbike squads

6 Warp spiders with exrch and dual spinner

2 Prisms with holo fields and stones
2 Walkers with Scatter lasers

I will go against the new Wolves and i will report ...

[Duke]

It seems like you really like ELrad, but I would consdier a Bike Farseer and Bike Council... Expeisive, but great.


By the way, how did the game go?

DUKE

[Kelmon]

I did sweep him, you can read it in the battle reports section.

[jcflanker]

Farseer jetbike fortune doom spirit stones warding
8 warlocks, bikes, 6 destructors, embolden, enhance

2x 5x fire dragons, wave serpent, scatter laser, chin cannon
2x 5x dire avengers wave serpent, bright lance, chin cannon

1x 5x dire avengers, falcon, scatter laser, chin cannon
farseer, fortune, mindwar, warding

2x fire prisms

That's my 2000 points, 7 tank hulls and a giant seer council make most armies cry..though I did lose to a 3-monolith list recently.

why take the 2nd farseer? would an aurtarch on a bike with a pw and mandiblaster and put him with the seer council be better?