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Tetsugaku
07-11-2012, 09:57 AM
Hey all - just published a detailed article about this on my blog, as a preparatory piece to preparing a proposal to GW about how they could open up their codexes to anyone who had access to a web browser.

Here's the article:
http://www.tetsugaku.info/why-havent-games-workshop-published-their-digital-codexes-on-android-as-well-as-iosipad/

And here's an excerpt:


A great many reasons. I grew tired of explaining them to fanboys on the internet so I’ll explain the problems here. Your comments are more than welcome, as is your feedback on my proposed solution.

1) Market Share.
The tablet market is split 60%/40% – IOS / Android according to the latest figures I could track down. This means that the largest single chunk, is resoundingly in Apples garden.

2) Fragmentation
Apple tablets are a single system. They all have the same size screen, one of two resolutions and predictable hardware. Android devices do not have *any* of these benefits as you can see in these info graphics. Designign for them is much, much harder as you have to account for so many more variables.

I'd really appreciate your comments on the article as everything I can get from real gamers (you lot) helps me out with my user research.

Cheers :)

Defenestratus
07-11-2012, 10:23 AM
Your reasons being somewhat flawed aside - the solution is simple and as you pointed out - very easy to accomplish with HTML5.

wittdooley
07-11-2012, 10:41 AM
Nice, straight forward read with really good links. Bravo on that.


Your reasons being somewhat flawed aside - the solution is simple and as you pointed out - very easy to accomplish with HTML5.

Where are the reasons flawed. You keep saying this. What in this article comes with flawed reasoning?

Tetsugaku
07-11-2012, 10:42 AM
Your reasons being somewhat flawed aside - the solution is simple and as you pointed out - very easy to accomplish with HTML5.

Brilliant well this is the sort of feedback I'm looking for - if you could tell me what you think is flawed, source some stats and reply on the article I'd like to update it so it better reflects opinions?

JMichael
07-11-2012, 10:55 AM
I do understand the ease of writing for a single device vs multiple. But Android far out numbers iOS phones. Though tablets certainly are better for reading the codecies and such, It would be great to have them on the smaller screen as well.

Smartphone split:
50% = Android
30% = iOS

From here:
http://www.macrumors.com/2012/04/03/android-tops-50-ios-hits-30-in-u-s-smartphone-installed-user-base/

Tetsugaku
07-11-2012, 11:03 AM
I do understand the ease of writing for a single device vs multiple. But Android far out numbers iOS phones. Though tablets certainly are better for reading the codecies and such, It would be great to have them on the smaller screen as well.

Smartphone split:
50% = Android
30% = iOS

From here:
http://www.macrumors.com/2012/04/03/android-tops-50-ios-hits-30-in-u-s-smartphone-installed-user-base/


Of you're definitely right about the share of the market - but those numbers don't tell the whole story, in fact they're positively misleading. As I go into in the main article there are a lot more reasons why IOS users are more likely to make the purchase than Android users, the marketplace, the accounts, the one click purchasing (linked to the credit cards), frankly IOS users are more likely to have a larger disposable income.

wittdooley
07-11-2012, 11:05 AM
I do understand the ease of writing for a single device vs multiple. But Android far out numbers iOS phones. Though tablets certainly are better for reading the codecies and such, It would be great to have them on the smaller screen as well.

Smartphone split:
50% = Android
30% = iOS

From here:
http://www.macrumors.com/2012/04/03/android-tops-50-ios-hits-30-in-u-s-smartphone-installed-user-base/

No one disputes that. But who wants to read their codex on their phone?

Tetsugaku
07-11-2012, 11:09 AM
No one disputes that. But who wants to read their codex on their phone?

Well I'd want to access my army list in an easy to read format, compete with a quick reference table of all the special rules I might need at the tabletop?

I might want to tweak my army its whilst I was on the train on the way to work and didn't have my tablet.

The smart phone is ubiquitous, you always have it with you.

wittdooley
07-11-2012, 11:29 AM
Well I'd want to access my army list in an easy to read format, compete with a quick reference table of all the special rules I might need at the tabletop?

I might want to tweak my army its whilst I was on the train on the way to work and didn't have my tablet.

The smart phone is ubiquitous, you always have it with you.

Which is entirely different than what GW opted to do with the iPad Digital Codex. I would in no way, shape, or form want that simply ported over to the smaller screen. It would effectively need to be a different app.

But maybe I just have bad eyesight.

Tetsugaku
07-11-2012, 11:32 AM
Which is entirely different than what GW opted to do with the iPad Digital Codex. I would in no way, shape, or form want that simply ported over to the smaller screen. It would effectively need to be a different app.

But maybe I just have bad eyesight.

Indeed you are correct. The GW offering is exclusively for tablets, it doesn't even have a portrait mode over landscape, a glaring omission IMO.

However - it doesn't have to be like that, in fact the solution is available right now, it's called responsive web design (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsive_Web_Design). Effectively it means reflowing content to fit the screen, whatever screen, that's being used to view the content. There's no reason why a web based GW subscription service would't be usable on your TV, your phone, your tablet, desktop and everything else whilst using a single code base.

Defenestratus
07-11-2012, 11:36 AM
Of you're definitely right about the share of the market - but those numbers don't tell the whole story, in fact they're positively misleading. As I go into in the main article there are a lot more reasons why IOS users are more likely to make the purchase than Android users, the marketplace, the accounts, the one click purchasing (linked to the credit cards), frankly IOS users are more likely to have a larger disposable income.

(Almost) All android users have a Google Play account. Furthermore, content can be purchased from the web store on the PC and is immediately available on all android devices. "One click" perhaps its not, but its very very fast - and yes, the Play Store is linked to my credit card. I buy movies, books, music, magazines and apps all through the Play store with my credit card, or Google Wallet, or Carrier Billing. Its actually a lot harder to buy something from Amazon on my mobile devices than it is from the Play Store.

As for "who would want to read a codex on their phone" question is quite simply the myopic, anti-options, closed-ecosystem mentality of a iOS drone. Just because YOU can't see a reason for it, doesn't mean there isn't someone out there that would like that option.

Plus, I agree that I wouldn't want to read a codex on the postage stamp sized screen of the iPhone (even the new one that supposedly has a still inferior-sized screen).

On my Gnex however - I read kindle books all the time when I don't have my tablet handy (which conveniently synchs with my other devices automatically so I don't have to "catch up" on my tablet later).

As for the issues that the OP had on his website regarding the "issues" with developing for Android. Many of them have been debunked on other sites that aren't as skewed towards the Apple koolaid. Some of them are past complaints that have been antiquated due to developments in the ecosystem.

Ok so its possible to NOT have a google play account or even a google account to use an android device and still retain a lot of functionality.

Tetsugaku
07-11-2012, 11:43 AM
As for the issues that the OP had on his website regarding the "issues" with developing for Android. Many of them have been debunked on other sites that aren't as skewed towards the Apple koolaid. Some of them are past complaints that have been antiquated due to developments in the ecosystem.


Wow - that sure is a lot of anger - but hey that's cool, angry users are still users and they often have important things to say - so if you could tell me some of the places I went wrong so I could correct them, using independent sources and citations that would be really awesome.

I'm looking to update the article where required and use it to feed into my actual recommended solution, which, in case you didn't see it through that red haze of yours, was an open HTML based subscription model.

cheers!

karlthepagan
07-11-2012, 12:00 PM
Doesn't Apple iBooks Publisher require an exclusivity agreement?

By agreeing to publish for iOS (with the nice animation and navigation features) they've agreed to that material's exclusivity to iOS only.

I'm a little disappointed and would rather see it published on Amazon which is available to all platforms.


It's a little worse than that... even if you own a Mac you don't have an iBook viewer... you need an iOS device to view it.

wittdooley
07-11-2012, 12:09 PM
As for "who would want to read a codex on their phone" question is quite simply the myopic, anti-options, closed-ecosystem mentality of a iOS drone. Just because YOU can't see a reason for it, doesn't mean there isn't someone out there that would like that option.


Wow. You are angry!

And maybe I should have phrased it differently: I wouldn't want to use the Digital Codex "as is" on my iPhone, or any phone for that matter. FOR ME, it's far too graphical. I'd want something simpler to view on my phone. And yes, I read plenty of books on my phone thru my Kindle account.

As to the phone screen size: all those giant sized screen phones are far too large for my tastes. I'm very happy with the size of my iPhone screen, and quite frankly, don't know that I'd want it to be any bigger. But then again, I wouldn't buy a full-blown Otter Box for the same reason; they become more cumbersome when in your pocket.

Oh, and by the way. My Kindle Account synch both on my Kindle and my iOS devices, too. So do my iBooks. So there's that.

Defenestratus
07-11-2012, 12:17 PM
Doesn't Apple iBooks Publisher require an exclusivity agreement?


Basically - yes.

http://betanews.com/2012/01/22/apples-ibooks-author-eula-is-more-and-less-evil-than-you-think/

Morbid
07-11-2012, 12:41 PM
Basically - yes.

http://betanews.com/2012/01/22/apples-ibooks-author-eula-is-more-and-less-evil-than-you-think/

However technically a slight change to the book would be fine I'm sure.

As for the argument, which may soon be a null point with the MS Surface coming out, is kinda silly. Android and ANY other coding platform is easier than the iOS coding platform (objective C), thus making it work on Android or Windows phones would be simple.

Since I mentioned the Surface, here is why iPads will be a null point. The Surface acts as a Windows computer, thus putting a .PDF (I would love it if GW would sell them so I could actually give them money for it) on it would be simple.

Ultimately it doesn't really matter because I feel the actual codex is superior to the iOS one. Yeah I'm a paper fanboi.

AlphaDecay
07-11-2012, 05:41 PM
The reason why it is only on iPad is because the iAuthor software that allows the formatting of the content produces a unique file that isn't convertable to HTML5 or <insert your format here>. The only thing one can do is save the document as a PDF that will have a watermark on it. Doing so loses all of the DRM they gain from the closed iAuthor system and strips all of the interactivity allowed by the iBook format.

The reason why the codex is only in landscape format is because iAuthor doesn't do a very good job of reflowing text around other elements (images, videos, etc.) so the software has an option to lock the orientation if you have a more complicated document (inline interactive content).

The reason why it is not on Android has nothing to do with market share - rather it is all about the DRM that iAuthor provides (unique, non-transferrable format) and the development environment it provides (the iAuthor software itself). The only limitation Apple places is that the actual iAuthor file cannot be sold outside of iTunes. If as a developer I want to release my content on multiple systems I can do that, but I can't sell an iAuthor file format elsewhere - I have to use different authoring tools and produce a different content format to sell the content in a different store. This separate development process will come at a higher cost (different toolchain for putting the content together) and at a lack of content security (Android currently does not offer any digital text format that is as secure as iBooks).

I say all of this as someone who has been writing books using iAuthor (textbooks for education).

Captainparty
07-11-2012, 05:48 PM
However technically a slight change to the book would be fine I'm sure.

As for the argument, which may soon be a null point with the MS Surface coming out, is kinda silly. Android and ANY other coding platform is easier than the iOS coding platform (objective C), thus making it work on Android or Windows phones would be simple.

Since I mentioned the Surface, here is why iPads will be a null point. The Surface acts as a Windows computer, thus putting a .PDF (I would love it if GW would sell them so I could actually give them money for it) on it would be simple.

Ultimately it doesn't really matter because I feel the actual codex is superior to the iOS one. Yeah I'm a paper fanboi.

The proper codex is just not superior in any way, obviously you've not used it, but the iOS one is a lot better, just for the instant links to special rules alone.

And to make this book they've not had to code an app, they've used iBooks Publisher which is amazingly easy and convenient, and publishes to the vast majority of the app buying tablet market, because, although the market share isn't as big as it was initially, the iPad users spend a lot more money, mostly because its a lot easier to. Also, as much as some people like android, and some people like it just because they don't want to like Apple, like our angry friend Defenestratus, there has yet to be a truly great android tablet that has captured the public imagination like the iPad, everything else, in the public perception at least, its trying to be an iPad.

Uncle Nutsy
07-11-2012, 07:36 PM
^^ really? well you should read up on what apple wants to do with the output from their publisher tool.

Now before you go off kilter with your apple love again (because let's face it, your fanboyism is showing), I've sold iPads. I've also used the other tablets out there. Right now, the difference between all the tablets is minimal at best, and the other tablets are catching up FAST.

and the only reason it's "captured the public's imagination" is because apple MADE A GREAT SALES PITCH.

apahllo
07-11-2012, 08:51 PM
It could have been a market choice. I bet there was sampling done about the percentage of gamers who have a pc tablet or an iPad. It also could have been a preference choice, gamesworkshop could have been persuaded by the beauty of apples operating system and it's flawless functionality.

But the choice of gamesworkshop to release it exclusively for the iPad almost settles the issue on its own. Apple is a better company to sign with than windows. As a single company they have taken the electronic world by storm and left computer companies like dell(Alienware), hp, and all the rest at the starting line. It's all about presentation and ease of utility. Apples innovation in both aesthetic and internal parts of the digital world are unparalleled. Apple iPad and it's OS are more beautiful and functional.

For all you apple haters out there, scoreboard...:cool:

JxKxR
07-11-2012, 10:09 PM
Something I've wanted is a program full of blank templates with different kinds of tables that you put stats in. You insert the info for your codex then the program would translate it into app form. You could customize your own codex! It would allow you to add forge world rules in with the rest of your codex, along with your allies, fortifications, army list, and fliers. You could have all the info you would ever need right in one spot. You could change the order of the pages, font, size, etc.

If you put some of the work into the hands of the user then you wouldn't have to wait around for GW to do it, and it could be used for other gaming systems.

Blusox69
07-12-2012, 03:52 AM
The Android OS is too fragmented. When you create and App or even a book layout, you have to do it for a whole host of different OS's and hardware. With the iPad you have a much smaller hardware spec and a single OS. The tools for creating books for iOS are much easier to use. The Space Marine codex was probably done with electronic copies of text being cut and paste and their pictures and animations just being dropped in to the wizard.

I know this because I work in IT and work with Microsoft, Google, and Apple devices daily. I have no overall preference between makes as they are just tools that do a particular job. Some tools do some jobs better than others. When I publish manuals I prefer to use iOS as I can create a book/manual much quicker using their iAuthor software

Android Codex's will come but it will require a bigger investment from GW.

The big question you should be asking is why GW charge the same for their digital content as they do for their physical. Given the original electronic sources of text, pictures and animations anyone on this site could have created the Space Marine Codex in a week. If you don't believe me then get hold of a MAc and download iBooks Author (it's free) and try it yourself. My company has publish dozens of professional looking manuals on the iBook store and they were all done by our IT staff with no formal training.

Tetsugaku
07-13-2012, 10:21 AM
Thanks for your great range of replies everybody - nice to know people can at least sometimes, have a discussion without it turning into a fan war eh? ;)

If you have any comments you think are especially worthy I'd really encourage you to put them on the original article (http://www.tetsugaku.info/why-havent-games-workshop-published-their-digital-codexes-on-android-as-well-as-iosipad/) as well.

Anyway - as you gathered from the original post, my suggestion is a subscription to an HTML based solution that covers all of the things we get out of codexes, as well as all the benefits of things like army builder and White Dwarf, without any of the drawbacks.

I'll be publishing more proposals on my own blog tetsugaku.info (www.tetsugaku.info) and on my professional portfolio The Tall Designer (www.thetaalldesigner.com) as I come up with them. Ultimately I'm going to have a detailed case study of how to build an open, accessible, usable system, based on web standards that serves the needs of gamers whilst making GW the profit that they deserve for creating the games and rules.

Who knows, it might even happen.

Cheers!

Xenith
07-13-2012, 11:20 AM
Erm.

Because owners of Apple hardware are more likely to buy a slightly upgraded version of something they already own?

Defenestratus
07-13-2012, 11:42 AM
The Android OS is too fragmented.

There's a lot of great things to have come from that actually - its not all a bad thing.

However, in the case of digital content - fragmentation has nothing to do with it. There are standards out there, like Tetsugaku has mentioned, that would work on any platform, any device. Furthermore, something like an e-codex, is easy to sell through existing app services like Google Play Books/Magazines.

BTW, where can I find a link to the Digital SM codex on the appstore?

I searched for "Games Workshop", "Codex", "Space Marine" and none of them returned the results I'm looking for.

wittdooley
07-13-2012, 12:08 PM
There's a lot of great things to have come from that actually - its not all a bad thing.

However, in the case of digital content - fragmentation has nothing to do with it. There are standards out there, like Tetsugaku has mentioned, that would work on any platform, any device. Furthermore, something like an e-codex, is easy to sell through existing app services like Google Play Books/Magazines.

BTW, where can I find a link to the Digital SM codex on the appstore?

I searched for "Games Workshop", "Codex", "Space Marine" and none of them returned the results I'm looking for.

They're in the iBooks store, not the AppStore.

Defenestratus
07-13-2012, 02:49 PM
They're in the iBooks store, not the AppStore.

Ugh ... so you can't browse their iBooks collection on the web?

Why is it that I can't search for it from the Apple iTunes store? Apple Patented the universal search - put it to practice!

For example:
https://play.google.com/store/search?q=Game+of+thrones

Tetsugaku
07-13-2012, 03:44 PM
Ugh ... so you can't browse their iBooks collection on the web?

Why is it that I can't search for it from the Apple iTunes store? Apple Patented the universal search - put it to practice!


Luckily that's not true (http://itunes.apple.com/gb/artist/games-workshop/id536481148?mt=11&ign-mpt=uo%3D4%2522%2520target%253D%2522itunes_store%2 522%253EGames%2520Workshop) :)

Uncle Nutsy
07-14-2012, 12:16 AM
Ugh ... so you can't browse their iBooks collection on the web?

Why is it that I can't search for it from the Apple iTunes store? Apple Patented the universal search - put it to practice!

For example:
https://play.google.com/store/search?q=Game+of+thrones

cmon Defenestratus, apple's way of doing things makes about as much sense as GW's way of doing things. you should know that by now.

Tetsugaku
07-14-2012, 12:42 AM
cmon Defenestratus, apple's way of doing things makes about as much sense as GW's way of doing things. you should know that by now.

Something that's actually a way better comparison between GW and Apple is the amount of FUD you see about them on the nets.

This isn't true - I linked to categorical proof , wonder if anyone ever reads discussions or just cherry picks the bits they like :)

Blusox69
07-14-2012, 01:26 AM
There's a lot of great things to have come from that actually - its not all a bad thing

What great things? From an app designers point of view Android apps take infinatly longer to create and debug than those for iOS. You have to cater for dozens of combinations of hardware and OS. Fragmentation is Androids Achilles heel, you can have 2 identicle devices and depending on your cellular provider or region you get a different OS version. If you want to make something fir the first time and it be fone cheaply, fast, and looks good you use iOS, and I'm far from being a fan boy of Apple.

Uncle Nutsy
07-14-2012, 11:54 PM
how does a different OS relate to anything? at the core, honeycomb and ice cream sandwich are the same. and it's the apps themselves that process and display the data files. If the app can read the data file, it can display it. the OS is irrelevant.


This isn't true - I linked to categorical proof , wonder if anyone ever reads discussions or just cherry picks the bits they like :)


how does any of the proof you linked to relate to what I said about apple?

Tetsugaku
07-15-2012, 12:35 PM
how does any of the proof you linked to relate to what I said about apple?

Because the question was:


Ugh ... so you can't browse their iBooks collection on the web?

to which I answered:


Luckily that's not true (http://itunes.apple.com/gb/artist/games-workshop/id536481148?mt=11&ign-mpt=uo%3D4%2522%2520target%253D%2522itunes_store%2 522%253EGames%2520Workshop) :)

and you responded:


cmon Defenestratus, apple's way of doing things makes about as much sense as GW's way of doing things. you should know that by now.

Therefore I concluded you didn;t bother to read what I said or look at the evidence I provided and were in fact happy enough with your existing opinions.

It's things like this that create rumour mill crap, like all that rubbish about GW not owning the rights to use the old paint names any more. A lie repeated enough times becomes truth.

Uncle Nutsy
07-15-2012, 07:18 PM
the difference is, you focused on one thing, while I focused on all of apple's business practices. in other words, your conclusion is wrong.

what you linked to was not categorical proof, but only one tree in the entire forest. you might also want to revise your comparison of the ipad versus the android tablets.

Tetsugaku
07-15-2012, 11:59 PM
in other words, your conclusion is wrong.


And this is why I don't often visit the internet.



you might also want to revise your comparison of the ipad versus the android tablets.

I will be, where it makes sense and where things I've presented can be better written using examples given to me by commentators here, other forums, my own blog and from GW themselves.

Considering on Saturday I met the guys who wrote the iBooks version and had a chat to them about it I don;t think I'll be using any of your valuable input.

-----

Anyway - the next step is to write out an outline of potential services and features that would be in an html based subscription service, any ideas please get in touch with me via my blog (http://www.tetsugaku.info), I'll be posting up here and elsewhere for feedback when it's done but ideas earlier than that are super useful.

Psychosplodge
07-16-2012, 02:07 AM
Has anyone considered it could be as simple as some management type waved an ipad at the IT dept and said "make the codex for this" so they did literally what was asked...

Wolfshade
07-16-2012, 02:13 AM
Reminded me of this: http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000061637&story_title=San-Francisco-to-stop-buying-Macs

Uncle Nutsy
07-16-2012, 06:56 PM
Considering on Saturday I met the guys who wrote the iBooks version and had a chat to them about it I don;t think I'll be using any of your valuable input.

the biggest flub I saw in your blog post is the fragmentation part. Comparing android devices to iPads/iPhones is simply terrible and i'll tell you why. Using devices that run the android OS to the devices that run apple's OS will lead to a one-sided conclusion. A better comparison would be using the Operating System and core hardware in each, since all models using either Honeycomb and Ice Cream sandwich (different android OS builds) will have to run on compatible (and controlled) hardware, much like the hardware in the iPad and iPhone (where the iPad is a larger version of the iPhone, but lacking cellular functionality).

Apps that are on the android platform have to be able to run as bug-free as possible for it to work on that OS, much like Apps have to run as bug-free as possible. And those apps, regardless of what platform they are on, have to be able to display the data content included in the file that is loaded onto the platform (such as an eBook).

If GW was to release their ebooks on the Android platform, they are free to choose the storefront that benefits them the most. They could release their ebooks through only one place, such as Google's app store if they so choose. They don't HAVE to release their books on EVERY storefront.

Ease of purchase is only in the eyes of the account holder, and just about every app store either accepts only credit cards, or a compatible form of payment.

The tablets that are running Honeycomb or Ice Cream sandwich also have a comparable screen that lends themselves to ebooks like interactive codexes. it all comes down to the app that runs them, not the platform.

Piracy. Almost all platforms have some form of piracy, including iPhones and iPads. Thinking that only one platform has no piracy is quite simply.. naive and one-sided. And last i checked, piracy is quite rampant on the ipad aswell (http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/is_app_piracy_higher_on_the_ipad.php) I'm sorry to break it to you but, GW's digital products WILL be pirated. it's just a question of when.

Cost to games workshop? you're comparing digital products with physical products, and stating apple's model is superior? did you not look into what any of the other estores' terms and conditions are?

I do agree with using a secured HTML site that is open to every platform out there. It would be a better solution to the exclusive but restrictive model they are using now.

Psychosplodge
07-17-2012, 02:33 AM
2241

How about this? What platform would allow GW to maintain the tightest control of it's IP than the fundamentally restrictive iOS?

Wolfshade
07-17-2012, 03:07 AM
:D

Uncle Nutsy
07-18-2012, 08:51 PM
heheh nice pic.

and i see tetsu buddy hasn't responded to any of the points I brought up. maybe because i'm right about all of them? :)

gendoikari87
07-18-2012, 10:14 PM
heheh nice pic.

and i see tetsu buddy hasn't responded to any of the points I brought up. maybe because i'm right about all of them? :)

You might be right, but you're still horribly arrogant.

Uncle Nutsy
07-18-2012, 11:19 PM
not arrogant, just honest, blunt and absolutely confident.

you can still speak plainly and not be arrogant.

Tetsugaku
07-19-2012, 03:00 PM
not arrogant, just honest, blunt and absolutely confident.

you can still speak plainly and not be arrogant.

You sir, sound exceptionally arrogant - maybe you should think about how you persona comes across online?
I used to be like you, speak like this, tell peole how it was, not allow room for anyone else's opinions, it stops life being as enjoyable as it can be.


and i see tetsu buddy hasn't responded to any of the points I brought up. maybe because i'm right about all of them? :)

I didn't reply to any of them because I a) don't generally argue on the internet - it's a bit pointless & b) I could't find a coherent point in what you said. However as you've asked, - please let me respond.


the biggest flub I saw in your blog post is the fragmentation part. Comparing android devices to iPads/iPhones is simply terrible and i'll tell you why. Using devices that run the android OS to the devices that run apple's OS will lead to a one-sided conclusion. A better comparison would be using the Operating System and core hardware in each
.

What? I mean, what? You don't make any sense, not in a "I don't agree with you" way, but in a "you can't put a sentence together" way.



Apps that are on the android platform have to be able to run as bug-free as possible for it to work on that OS, much like Apps have to run as bug-free as possible. And those apps, regardless of what platform they are on, have to be able to display the data content included in the file that is loaded onto the platform (such as an eBook).

Again - what? That's like saying cars need wheels and doors to make them work - hardly a revelation is it?


If GW was to release their ebooks on the Android platform, they are free to choose the storefront that benefits them the most. They could release their ebooks through only one place, such as Google's app store if they so choose. They don't HAVE to release their books on EVERY storefront.

So?? Does every android user have a registered account, with a stored credit card and is able to make a one click transaction from a single store with a unified customer services system and unified redownload system? No.

That's one of the huge reasons IOS users buy more apps consistently in every report ever written about it.



Piracy. Almost all platforms have some form of piracy, including iPhones and iPads. Thinking that only one platform has no piracy is quite simply.. naive and one-sided. And last i checked, piracy is quite rampant on the ipad aswell (http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/is_app_piracy_higher_on_the_ipad.php) I'm sorry to break it to you but, GW's digital products WILL be pirated. it's just a question of when.

I *said* this in MY OWN article.

AND you linked to an article - TWO YEARS old

and the article *actually* said:

"The piracy rates for apps on the iPad may be much higher than on the iPhone, if one developer's report is any indication."

So the report is based on ONE person and is comparing iPads and iPhones! not Android!


Cost to games workshop? you're comparing digital products with physical products, and stating apple's model is superior? did you not look into what any of the other estores' terms and conditions are?


Er - yes, and - what's your point? Do you have one? Do you have any figures, articles and examples? Do you have anything?




I do agree with using a secured HTML site that is open to every platform out there. It would be a better solution to the exclusive but restrictive model they are using now


Well that makes me feel a lot better - good to have you on board Mr Confident.

Contrasting views are the most important views I can find, they help me understand other people's points of views, empathise with their problems and enable me to work towards solving these problems and making their interactions with something I've worked on, smoother.

Users don't always want to help however.


Anyway - anyone else? I'll be updating the original post ASAP and I have the first draft of the recommendations to come as well.


I look forward to your views on that to "Uncle Nutsy"

IF THAT'S EVEN YOUR REAL NAME.

Uncle Nutsy
07-19-2012, 09:02 PM
You sir, sound exceptionally arrogant - maybe you should think about how you persona comes across online?
I used to be like you, speak like this, tell peole how it was, not allow room for anyone else's opinions, it stops life being as enjoyable as it can be.

strong confidence is always mistaken for arrogance.




What? I mean, what? You don't make any sense, not in a "I don't agree with you" way, but in a "you can't put a sentence together" way.

interesting. you're the only one that's mentioned that. And yet, I have had university professors compliment me on my writing. I can write very well, but I don't like writing. Go figure.




Again - what? That's like saying cars need wheels and doors to make them work - hardly a revelation is it?

Your assertion stemmed from the amount of models on the market currently. I countered by mentioning that all models ran on similar hardware and noting that part of your blog post should reflect that instead. But seeing as we're on the subject of cars, your assertion was like trying to tell people that an aftermarket manufacturer shouldn't create parts for Ford because there are too many models out there. If you wish to write into GW with a proposition, you need to have a tighter comparison, such as the hardware that runs the tablets instead of the models of tablets.




So?? Does every android user have a registered account, with a stored credit card and is able to make a one click transaction from a single store with a unified customer services system and unified redownload system? No.

That's one of the huge reasons IOS users buy more apps consistently in every report ever written about it.

If they have an account with Google Play, then yes. That android user will have a registered account with a stored credit card and will be able to make the 'one-click transaction'. but why is that even part of your proposition anyways? it's not relevant at all.

the reason iOS users buy more apps consistently.. is because there's only one place to get those apps. so of COURSE they will have higher sales figures. When you corner the market, you can brag til the sun turns blue that your figures are higher. And no one will argue because there's nothing to argue with.



and the article *actually* said:

"The piracy rates for apps on the iPad may be much higher than on the iPhone, if one developer's report is any indication."

So the report is based on ONE person and is comparing iPads and iPhones! not Android!

I know. The age does not matter. The author is comparing one iOS device to another, making it relevant to the discussion. It doesn't matter if it's an iPad, iPod touch, or iPhone. they all run the same hardware and are almost identical, save for a few functions and sizes.




Er - yes, and - what's your point? Do you have one? Do you have any figures, articles and examples? Do you have anything?

my point *is* that comparing a physical-based product with an electronic-based product is like comparing apples and oranges. they may be both fruit but that's where the similarities end.

Now, if we look at amazon's Terms and Conditions (known as a Participation agreement (http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?ie=UTF8&nodeId=1161302)), we see that they can use and modify a persons' work how they see fit. Now if I were at Games Workshop, I would not like that part of the agreement. We can take this to mean that digital codexes won't be released there before some serious legal wrangling was done.

Google Books' terms and conditions are here (http://play.google.com/intl/en/about/books-terms.html), but at the time of writing this, it's been doing some really funny redirects and I can't read the entire document in the half second that it resides on the monitor.


Well that makes me feel a lot better - good to have you on board Mr Confident.

Contrasting views are the most important views I can find, they help me understand other people's points of views, empathise with their problems and enable me to work towards solving these problems and making their interactions with something I've worked on smoother.

Users don;t always want to help however.


Anyway - anyone else? I'll be updating the original post ASAP and I have the first draft of the recommendations to come as well -


I look forward to your views on that to "Uncle Nutsy" IF THAT'S EVEN YOUR REAL NAME.

I just want to add, after reading this last part, that your writing process comes off as disjointed, there's a typo, there is a hyphen missing and there's a spelling mistake. So please don't accuse others of bad writing until you brush up on yours.

Tetsugaku
07-20-2012, 02:10 AM
strong confidence is always mistaken for arrogance..

Generally it's just arrogance. What you said is in fact a perfect example. So is this:


And yet, I have had university professors compliment me on my writing

It also, quite obviously, means nothing - professors? professors of what? When? In what context?


I countered by mentioning that all models ran on similar hardware

Similar - in the land of software development, which is where I live, is not the same. It means more testing, more development work, a higher cost for purchasing hardware and a (much) longer development time. Tell me, what do you do for a living?


If they have an account with Google Play, then yes.

So the answer you are looking for is "no"?


the reason iOS users buy more apps consistently.. is because there's only one place to get those apps. so of COURSE they will have higher sales figures.

No, you seem to have got embarrassingly confused. The higher sales figures are based on some simple figures.
1) IOS users download more apps, free to otherwise than Droid users
2) IOS users BUY more apps, per user, than droid users

Your "of course" means nothing in this case.


I know. The age does not matter. The author is comparing one iOS device to another, making it relevant to the discussion. It doesn't matter if it's an iPad, iPod touch, or iPhone. they all run the same hardware and are almost identical, save for a few functions and sizes.

But it does matter - you fool - because you were using it to demonstrate there is more piracy on the iPad compared to Android. You fail at sourcing arguments.



I just want to add, after reading this last part, that your writing process comes off as disjointed, there's a typo, there is a hyphen missing and there's a spelling mistake. So please don't accuse others of bad writing until you brush up on yours.

Sir - I put it to you that you are ignorant of the subject matter (demonstrated by your own words and opinions) arogant (again indicated by your own words) and in fact you are continuing this argument for no good reason.

I - am drawing a line under this right here


--------------------------------------------------------


Now - if anyone has any more valuable feedback I'd be hugely grateful to hear your views :)

Cheers

gendoikari87
07-20-2012, 09:30 AM
It also, quite obviously, means nothing - professors? professors of what? When? In what context?trust me if they were science professors, it wasn't really a compliment it was an insult.

wittdooley
07-20-2012, 10:55 AM
trust me if they were science professors, it wasn't really a compliment it was an insult.

:D So presumably in that instance it's like making the statement "I'm good at checkers?"

But seriously Nutsy, the fact that you claim the age of an article doesn't matter sorta invalidates anything you say. In technology, the age of your data is everything.

In term of app purchases: you realize that there being only one marketplace has nothing to do with it, right? Literally nothing. It has to do with the purchasing trends of the user, which again, people have proven that iOS users spend more, attributing the lack of Droid purchases to the fact that their users won't pay for it because it "should be free."

And as your comment about writing processes go: if you were so smart, and such a good writer, you'd clearly see the difference between poor writing and typos. But you don't, so we'll leave it at that.

gendoikari87
07-20-2012, 11:29 AM
So presumably in that instance it's like making the statement "I'm good at checkers?"

lol, no it's like being told by Michael Jordan that you're good at baseball. Or like being told by Shaquille O'Neal that you're good a free throws.

wittdooley
07-20-2012, 12:00 PM
lol, no it's like being told by Michael Jordan that you're good at baseball. Or like being told by Shaquille O'Neal that you're good a free throws.

Oh thank you. That gave me a good chuckle on an otherwise VEEEEERRRRRY long Friday.

Psychosplodge
07-23-2012, 01:24 AM
Can someone translate this to a metaphor from a proper sport that's played outside north america for the rest of us to understand? :D

Wolfshade
07-23-2012, 01:52 AM
It's like Paul Foster saying you can touch the jack

Psychosplodge
07-23-2012, 01:53 AM
Ah right. cheers.

Uncle Nutsy
07-23-2012, 08:41 PM
But seriously Nutsy, the fact that you claim the age of an article doesn't matter sorta invalidates anything you say. In technology, the age of your data is everything.

It really depends on the technology. In terms of consoles, four year old data is still quite relevant because we still have four year old consoles being sold. Some articles are still universal, regardless of age. Some, not so much.


In term of app purchases: you realize that there being only one marketplace has nothing to do with it, right? Literally nothing. It has to do with the purchasing trends of the user, which again, people have proven that iOS users spend more, attributing the lack of Droid purchases to the fact that their users won't pay for it because it "should be free.".

Of course iOS users spend more. I'm not saying they don't. Higher prices, plus a captured market gives you... more spending.

An iPad when it came out cost about 700 dollars. a comparable android tablet usually sells for roughly 450. we could also consider that more spending on Apple's side. See what I mean? It's a bit of a lopsided argument. :)

the "should be free" argument that you see has always been something that I find to be a bit of a bonkers position. If the app is good enough, it should have a fee attached, right?

Tetsugaku
06-03-2013, 07:43 AM
Still no droid codexes I see. Shame GW never went down the HTML5 / renting access route.

flekkzo
06-04-2013, 06:58 AM
Still no droid codexes I see. Shame GW never went down the HTML5 / renting access route.

I think that GW did what they did because Apple presents an appealing package (editor, control, large target audience, some anti-piracy, etc). I don't expect phone factor versions (iOS nor Android) at all. If anything I would expect an Amazon version for their book store. Heck it would even work for iOS (and loose me as a customer. See, you can't please everyone!). For that to happen Amazon must present a package appealing enough and I don't think that is the case (poor deal for publishers, afaik a less attractive technical solution).

I fell for you guys. Not being able to buy a digital media product for some reason that feels arbitrary (doesn't matter if it isn't) just sucks and more often than not piracy is the outcome.

If anyone wants to feel better about this, the hard copies are still a better choice by far.

Tetsugaku
09-14-2020, 06:04 AM
Just a quick FYI that I thought of GW's current approach years ago and everyone here said I was wrong :D