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Erazoender
10-04-2009, 11:02 PM
HQ: 310

Wolf Lord Logan Grimnar: 310 (In Wolf Guard pack)
- Logan Grimnar
- Drop Pod

Troops: 840

Wolf Guard Pack: 275
- Arngrim: Terminator Armor + Cyclone Missile Launcher = 63
- Hoskuld: Terminator Armor + Storm Shield + Chain Fist = 63
- Leiknir: Terminator Armor + Storm Shield + Chain Fist = 63
- Ragi: Terminator Armor + 2x Wolf Claws = 48
- Kabbi*: Power Fist = 38

Grey Hunters Pack: 185
- 10 Grey Hunters
- Flamer
- Meltagun
- Rhino

Grey Hunters Pack: 185
- 10 Grey Hunters
- Flamer
- Meltagun
- Rhino

Blood Claws Pack: 195
- 9 Blood Claws
- Flamer
- Power Fist
- Rhino
- Kabbi*

Fast Attack: 150

Thunderwolf Cavalry: 150
- 3 Thunderwolf Cavalry

Heavy Support: 200

Vindicator:115
- Vindicator

3 Long Fangs: 85
- 3 Long Fangs
- 2 Plasma Cannons

Total: 1500 Points

Thoughts?

Chumbalaya
10-05-2009, 07:11 AM
WG squad is waaaaay too expensive, Logan doesn't make much sense with just 1 unit, GH only have 1 melta, BC are in a Rhino, Thunderwolves don't have a THammer, Long Fangs don't have missile launchers.

That's what's wrong with it.

Dropping in 1 unit, no matter how expensive and kitted out it is, is suicide. They will die, make no mistake. With Drop Podding, you have to either bring in multiple units or only sacrificial units. A stupidly pricey unit is neither.

Beyond that, you've got 3 Rhinos, 2 with only 1 melta and 1 carrying lackluster assault troops (assault troops + Rhino = problem), awesome cav with no answer to Dreads, and no real long range firepower beyond a Demolisher cannon.

You need more answers to mech. If you want to stick with Logan, consider this as your WG units. 2+ combi-meltas, 1 CF+SS, 1 cyclone. Cheap, capable against armor and infantry, and still hitty in assault. Drop a couple of those and follow up with Rhinos and Thunderwolves and you should do ok.

Erazoender
10-05-2009, 09:32 AM
So should I drop either the Blood Claw or a Grey Hunter unit in favor of another Terminator unit? Should it be in a Drop Pod?

And what else do you suggest I should add for long ranged anti-tank? Throw in Lascannons on the Long Fangs, or a Predator with lascannons?

Chumbalaya
10-05-2009, 12:40 PM
Missile Launchers are sufficient for Long Fangs. They're fairly cheap and you can take them in good quantities. Great for knocking out light armor and annoying heavy armor, but meltas do the real heavy lifting on AV13 and up.

I'd just drop the BCs altogether, lose a lot of the WGT kit, and pick up 2 more units. If you need extra Pods, buy them for the Fangs and drop them empty.

Confuddled
10-05-2009, 10:22 PM
Mrrmph….

1) First problem – you don’t have anything QUITE fast enough to exploit the shock value of Logan podding into the middle of the other guy’s army.

4 Terminators and Logan “I can soak lascannon blasts” Grimnar are hard, but by the time the rest of your army gets there, there won’t be much left.

It doesn’t help that there really aren’t any big scary units to draw high-strength guns away from Logan and his suicide squad.



2) Grey Hunters are iffy.
a) Rhinos are thin-skinned – don’t count on them getting through unscathed.
b) The Grey Hunters are only going to become real threats come turn 3 (at best!) - too late to relieve Logan.
c) They’re not all that hot once they get out of their Rhinos either –
- no power weapons/power fists
- Ld 8 means they’re failing Counter-Attack Ld tests about 30% of the time



3) Ditto for Blood Claws.
Too slow to do any real good.

They could really benefit from a Land Raider. OR just a bigger pack to run up on foot behind/in front of the Grey Hunters.


4) Thunderwolf cavalry are fun.
Thunderwolf cavalry with at least 1 storm shield and a Thunder Hammer are just plain evil.


5) The heavy support choices are cute, but again, much too short-ranged, especially since almost half your army (ok, 39%) is composed of a big, expensive, hard-hitting unit that you’re planning on ramming down the other guy’s throat, while the other 60% would be sort of shuffling up.

It doesn’t help that you’re basically gambling that your heavy support choices aren’t exactly hard enough to hold OR contest your home objectives in a Seize Ground/Capture & Control game.



So, suggestions?

1) Like Chumbalaya says, trim back on Logan’s bodyguard a little.


2) More pods would be nice, but so would more units.


3) Definitely scrap the Blood Claws.


If you’re looking for a little more ranged anti-tank, I’d suggest taking advantage of the fact that Wolf Guard are:
a) Scoring.
b) Relatively cheap.


Very roughly, something like this, perhaps?



HQ
Logan

TROOPS
4 Wolf Guard Terminators, 2 combi-meltas, 1 shield-equipped hammer/chainfist terminator, 1 Cyclone

8 Grey Hunters, melta, Wolf Guard with power fist/combi-weapon, Rhino
8 Grey Hunters, melta, Wolf Guard with power fist/combi-weapon, Rhino

Wolf Guard Pack A - 3 Wolf Guard, lascannon razorback
Wolf Guard Pack B - 3 Wolf Guard, lascannon razorback

2 Thunderwolf cavalry, 1 Thunder Hammer+storm shield
2 Thunderwolf cavalry, 1 Thunder Hammer+storm shield


Comes to a hair under 1500 points.

Grey Hunters rush out to support Logan, backed up by the Thunderwolf packs.
(Sure, combi-weapons are one-shot only, but by the time you’re in range to use them, odds are you’re in going to be in assault next turn anyway.)

Wolf Guard either move up in support or camp out and snipe.



Alternative if you want to maximise firepower would be to tweak the rest of the army:



8 Grey Hunters, melta, Wolf Guard with power weapon/combi-weapon (detached from Pack A), Rhino
8 Grey Hunters, melta, Wolf Guard with power weapon/combi-weapon (detached from Pack B), Rhino

Wolf Guard Pack A - 4 Wolf Guard, 1 in terminator armour with cyclone launcher, lascannon razorback
Wolf Guard Pack B - 4 Wolf Guard, 1 in terminator armour with cyclone launcher, lascannon razorback

3 Thunderwolf cavalry, 1 model with thunder hammer+storm shield, 1 model with melta bombs.


One less Thunderwolf unit, and the Wolf Guard can’t actually hide in the razorbacks, but you get more of a long-ranged punch.

Erazoender
10-06-2009, 11:25 PM
So I was playing around and I decided to scrap Logan.

Here's what I got so far:

David’s Space Wolves:
1500 Pt. Roster

HQ: 360

Wolf Lord: 190
- Storm shield
- Frost Blade
- Wolf-Tooth Necklace
- Saga of the Warrior Born

Rune Priest: 170 (Living Lightning + Jaws of the World Wolf)
- Terminator Armor
- Master of the Runes

Elites: 330

Wolf Guard Pack: 215
- Arngrim: Terminator Armor + Cyclone Missile Launcher
- Hoskuld: Terminator Armor + Chain Fist
- Leiknir: Terminator Armor + Chain Fist
- Ragi: Terminator Armor
- Kabbi*: Combi-Melta

Wolf Scouts Pack: 85
- 5 Scouts
- Meltagun
- Kabbi*

Troops:

Grey Hunter Pack: 200
- 10 Grey Hunters
- 2x Flamers
- Power Weapon
- Rhino

Grey Hunter Pack: 215
- 10 Grey Hunters
- 2x Meltaguns
- Powerfist
- Rhino

Grey Hunter Pack: 165
- 10 Grey Hunters
- 2x Plasma Guns

Heavy Support:

Long Fang Pack: 140
- 6 Long Fangs
- 5 Missile Launchers

I have 120 points to work around here with. Suggestions?

Kelmon
10-07-2009, 12:32 PM
Take a vindicator ... or scrap some GHs and take Thunderwolves ...

Jakz
10-07-2009, 01:15 PM
Vindicator's suck especially compared with cheap Long Fangs.

On your second list I would vary up the Long Fangs you have and maybe add two lascannons. I am becoming a fan of the 3 Heavy Bolter/2 Lascannon split on the Long Fangs which maximizes their split fire rule.

Are you going to footslog those Wolf Guard across the board? The points would probably be better spent by trimming the wolf guard back to power armor, power weapon, and combi-weapons and put them in Rhino's with the Grey Hunters. Just run the Grey Hunter packs as 8 man packs with a Wolf Guard and an HQ trucking along.

You could also use some extra points to just go ahead and make that Rune Priest Njal. He owns for the extra points.

Confuddled
10-07-2009, 11:21 PM
Two biggest problems with the list?

1) Relatively little long-ranged shooting – I’d be horribly uncomfortable with just 1 cyclone, a lone squad of Long Fangs and a Rune Priest.


2) It doesn’t help that the other big problem would be the speed, or the lack thereof, as the case may be!

Lotsa foot sloggers, only 2 Rhinos to take the fight to the other guy? Difficult, difficult.


So, about those 120 points:




I have 120 points to work around here with. Suggestions?

1) More Rhinos/Razorbacks?


2) Something that is actually capable of mobile firepower? Longfangs might be cheap as chips, but being forced to walk can be a pain, especially in Dawn of War missions where you’re missing at least 1 turn of shooting.

Maybe more if there are no good firing points within 6”of a table edge and/or you fluff your Difficult Terrain rolls trying to reach that nice tall tower 8” in from the edge…


3) Upgrades for the Grey Hunter packs so they’re proper Swiss Army knives? (Marks of the Wulfen, basically…)


4) Maybe a Wolf Guard upgrade for the 10-man Grey Hunter squad with the power fist?

a) A power fist just ain’t worth it, imho – not when you’re buying it for a model with only 1 attack!

b) Instead of 10 Hunters with 2 melta guns and a power fist, trade the 10th Grey Hunter in for a Wolf Guard with a combi-melta and power fist?

- Better Ld (10% more likely to pass Ld/morale checks).
- 1 more power fist attack
- Frees up the close-combat slot for a Grey Hunter to take a power weapon (you’ve got the points, after all!)

Sure, you only get 1 shot with a melta, but then again, by considering the relatively short range of a melta, odds are you’re only going to get 1 shot anyway!


5) Heck. Maybe a bike for the Wolf Lord, so that you have a chance at chasing down those pesky fast units buzzing around the foot-sloggers cowering in the shelter of wrecked and burning Rhinos… ;)


Sticking as close to your original list as possible, call it:

1) Bike for the Wolf Lord
2) 3 Marks of the Wulfen for the Grey Hunter squads
3) Switch the 10-man/2-melta/power fist Grey Hunter squad for a 9-man/1-melta/1 Wolf Guard squad.
4) Buy that squad a power weapon.

Last 20 points, buy a couple of hunter-killer missiles for the Rhinos?



Are you going to footslog those Wolf Guard across the board? .
Looks like it, with the Lord leading ‘em. Good luck on that count – I really wouldn’t bet on him getting into combat with anything meaningful this side of turn 4! ;)

Assuming the Wolf Lord goes on the bike, however:

1) The Terminators can still walk up in company with the Lord. They still serve as meat shields and bodyguards – its just that the Wolf Lord can charge out that much sooner if the opportunity presents itself.


2) Meanwhile, the Rune Priest hangs with the foot-slogging Grey Hunter squad.

Alternative would be to detach Arngrim to lead the foot-slogging Grey Hunter squad, while the Rune Priest hangs with the Termies – switch around to taste.

Erazoender
10-08-2009, 08:43 AM
Wow I fail at writing lists ^^.

I guess what I'm trying to make is a generic list with a little bit of everything; not exactly a competitive list but one that will win games.

I wanted to try to incorperate Grimnar in the list because he's awesome, both rules and stats wise. In the end though, I don't think he'll pull his weight off in a 1500 point game unless I make a Terminator army.

So I think I'll lean toward using something like the second list; can some of you modify it to make it actually work?

Jakz
10-08-2009, 01:10 PM
The main problem with Logan is that you really need him with another unit and in a transport to make him good. So you can either drop pod the whole army or take a Land Raider and put him with a squad. In 1500 points a Land Raider is a huge chunk of points to have committed but it could be done.

Something maybe like this:

Logan: 245

Grey Hunters (9): 198
-Meltagun
-Power Weapon
Wolf Guard
-Combi-melta
-Power Fist

LR Redeemer: 250
-Multi-melta upgrade

Scouts: 113
-Meltagun
Wolf Guard
-Combi-melta

Grey Hunters (8): 223
-Meltagun
-Power Weapon
Wolf Guard
-Combi-melta
-Power Weapon
Rhino

Grey Hunters (8): 238
-Meltagun
-Power Fist
Wolf Guard
-Combi-melta
-Wolf Claw
Rhino

Long Fangs (6): 235
-Heavy Bolter x 2
- Missile Launcher
- Lascannon x 2
Razorback
-TL Lascannon

That is 1499 and a fairly solid list. 3 units to take objectives with and a decent amount of anti-armor in it.

Erazoender
10-08-2009, 10:53 PM
This isn't meant to be an ultra-competitive list... it's just what I can actually field right now.

What do you think:

HQ: 380

Wolf Lord Yngvar*: 210
- Runic Armor
- Storm shield
- Frost Blade
- Wolf-Tooth Necklace
- Saga of the Warrior Born

Rune Priest Gylfi**: 170 (Living Lightning + Jaws of the World Wolf)
- Terminator Armor
- Master of the Runes

Elites: 215

Wolf Guard Pack: 238 (**Rune Priest Gylfi in Terminator unit)
- Arngrim: Terminator Armor + Cyclone Missile Launcher
- Hoskuld: Terminator Armor + Chain Fist
- Leiknir: Terminator Armor + Chain Fist
- Logrin: Terminator Armor
- Kabbi***: Bolter
- Ragi****: Power Weapon

Troops: 580

Grey Hunter Pack: 170
- 8 Grey Hunters
- Flamer
- Power Weapon
- Rhino
- *Wolf Lord Yngvar in unit
- ****Ragi in unit

Grey Hunter Pack: 190
- 10 Grey Hunters
- 2x Meltaguns
- Rhino

Grey Hunter Pack: 160
- 10 Grey Hunters
- 2x Plasma Guns

Heavy Support:

Vindicator: 115
- Vindicator

Vindicator: 115
- Vindicator

Long Fang Pack: 140
- 6 Long Fangs
- 5 Missile Launchers
- ***Kabbi in unit

Total: 1508

People are usually laid back so they wouldn't really mind the extra 8 points... but I should find something to reduce.

Again this is just the list I want to start out with because I have all the models and can actually field it tomorrow... But I want to build on this sort of list. I was fond of the first list, but you pointed out it's flaws that I missed, and realised you guys all had good points.

Anyways that's probably what I'm going to try out tomorrow... and see what I need to purchase from there.

Jakz
10-09-2009, 10:52 AM
Wolf Lord Yngvar*: 210
- Runic Armor
- Storm shield
- Frost Blade
- Wolf-Tooth Necklace
- Saga of the Warrior Born

Total: 1508

People are usually laid back so they wouldn't really mind the extra 8 points... but I should find something to reduce.


Eliminate the Runic Armor on the Wolf Lord and give him the talisman, that will easily fix your points.