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Aenir
10-05-2009, 01:08 AM
A buddy of mine just got into the Daemon codex, and wanted to make a list, He asked if I could help and I came up with this list, what do you think?


10x Blood Letters (160)
10x Blood Letters (160)
10x Blood Letters (160)
10x Daemonettes (140)
1x Harold of Slannesh (50)
Transfixing Gaze (5)
10x Plaguebearers (150)
1x Harold of Nurgle (50)
3 Fiends of Slannesh (90)
10x Screamers of Tzeentch (160)
10x Screamers of Tzeench (160)
1x Daemon Prince (80)
Daemonic Flight (60)
Iron Hide (30)
Mark of Tzeentch (25)
Daemonic Gaze (20)

That comes out to a nice 1500 even

Any suggestions? The Local GW guy said it was a pretty good list

Toophat
10-05-2009, 01:32 AM
Theres very little anti tank in your army, I would suggest a soul grinder with rather then a demon prince. I would also look at giving your heralds some abilities to make them more effective. Theres also a whole mess of special characters that can really add flavor and punch to the army.

Lerra
10-05-2009, 02:34 AM
Screamers of Tzeentch look great but they are pretty terrible in terms of game mechanics. They are highly specialized, and not even that great at their specialty - it is difficult to get many hits on a moving tank.

For Daemonettes, either take a big squad or none at all. They are fragile and you have to assume that 5-7 of them will die before they get to assault. When you are starting out with only 10 that means that they are often ineffective. With a max sized squad they are more useful.

I also second the recommendation to add a soul grinder. Either that or add another daemon price to go tank hunting.

Chumbalaya
10-05-2009, 07:30 AM
Too slow, not enough anti-tank, no real staying power.

Bloodletters hit hard, but they move like infantry and drop like flies to any firepower. They work best as mop up after fast assault units tie enemies down (Fiends, Seekers, Flesh Hounds, anything flying).

Daemonettes are quicker, but don't hit as hard and are even easier to kill.

Sheralds should always be in chariots. Buffed stats and cavalry movement are too good to pass up. Gaze is meh, Might and Musk are your best bets. Get more if possible, you want to be in assault as soon as possible.

Plaguebearers are great for holding objectives, but 2 units of 5 may serve you better. Dirt cheap and crazy resilient when GtG on an objective.

Nurgalds suck, just don't bother.

Fiends are the best unit in the book, the more you take the better.

Screamers are not that good. Too pricey for an effect that can be mitigated by moving a vehicle 12". Hitting on a 6+ sucks. Too pricey.

Prince is all wrong. He has flight with shooty powers? Tzeentch Princes need bolt and that's it, a cheap firing platform. Fight Princes should be Nurgley (T6) or Slaaneshi (Pavane and Musk).

Daemons have difficult knocking out tanks and getting into assault with fast enemies, you need to field units that do both. Bolt of Change and anything fast work best, namely Fiends/Sheralds and Tzeentch Princes and Tzeralds.

Check this (http://40kdaemonreview.blogspot.com/) great Daemon resource out.

Aenir
10-05-2009, 09:18 PM
Thank you, i will let him know :D

SlavesToDarkness
10-07-2009, 11:55 PM
Toophat: He's got 20 screamers! That's plenty anti-tank! Meltabombs, remember?

I think you should split one unit into 2 units of 5. Add in 7 x Plaguebearers w/icon (WHERE are your icons? Are ya nuts?!) and upgrade your Nurgle herald to have a palanquin (15pts for +1A and +1W? Why not? Only 7.5pts each!). Best to give him Noxious Touch and Cloud of Flies if you can squeeze that in too.

I respectfully disagree: I love my Nurgle heralds - I have 2. But I DO play straight Nurgle, so might be a little biased!

Confuddled
10-08-2009, 01:32 AM
Any suggestions?
Difficult, difficult.

Problem the first – nowhere near enough staying power.
Problem the second – nowhere near enough anti-tank.


Kicker is, the troop choices are either:
1) VERY slow but tough (Plaguebearers); OR
2) Relatively slow, pretty darn hitty but fragile (Bloodletters and Daemonettes in close combat, Horrors with their shooting).

And, as Chumbalaya has noted, Daemonic Assault forces you to commit half your army against whatever the other guy has placed on the table, with the other half showing up in dribs and drabs over the next 5 turns.

It doesn’t help that:

1) Unless they’re shooters (and sometimes not even then), a unit deep-striking on turn 4 won’t actively affect the game till turn 5.

2) Deep-strike scatter can really mess things up – the larger the unit, the more careful you have to be with where you choose to deep-strike in.



So, you’re going to need enough stuff to soak up the worst the other guy can throw at you and still come out swinging. Ideally, stuff that can soak up a lot of damage AND has a relatively small footprint.

Enter Great Unclean Ones and Princes of Tzeentch! ;)

Great Unclean Ones
Self-evident, really. Give ‘em Clouds of Flies and you’re good to go – drop them and use them to herd the other guy.

Slow and purposeful, true, but being monstrous creatures helps since they get to roll 3d6.


Princes of Tzeentch
Best anti-tank unit in the Daemon army.

1) BS5 Bolts of Tzeentch actually have pretty good odds of hitting.


2) Relatively small footprint, so odds of scattering into enemy units or difficult terrain are reduced. And its not as if you’re going to find yourself immobilised by a failed dangerous terrain test either. Heck, with a 4+ invulnerable save, even if you do fail, you still have a 50% chance of shrugging it off.


3) There’s no chance of a single shot destroying a Daemon Prince.


4) T5 W4 with a 4+ save is pretty darn resilient.

Wings are pretty much a “must”, however.

The single biggest drawback to the Bolt of Tzeentch is that it is horribly short-ranged as far as anti-tank “guns” go – a Prince on foot only has an effective range of 30”.

Extending that to 36” might not seem like much, but you are in fact extending a Prince’s sphere of influence by almost 50%.

That extra mobility comes in really useful if you’re going first in a Dawn of War mission and/or the other guy decides to keep his troops in reserve, since it limits the places where his armoured units can come onto the table whilst staying out of LOS AND range from the Princes.

And its not as if Daemon Princes are bad in close combat either…

Iron Hide is a nice luxury, though strictly speaking, not mandatory necessary for Princes of Tzeentch.

a) You’re base T5, and with a decent stand-off range of 24”, you shouldn’t be taking all that much small/medium-calibre shots anyway.
b) You’ve got a 4+ invulnerable save against the really high-strength shots (and against anything else for that matter!)
c) You should have big scary threats (Great Unclean Ones) that much closer to the other guy to draw fire!



Feel free to supplement the Princes with Screamers, though they are pretty dodgy (high dollar and point cost for average returns), though, again, limiting the other guy’s movement options could be a good thing.

Maybe one pack at most…


Basically, throw the heavy hitters in your first wave (probably 60% or more of your army in terms of points if not number of units), do as much damage as possible in your first few turns and hope like hell the rest of your army shows up in time to do something useful.

If the second wave decides to show up first, hide and play an avoidance game until the big guys show up.


Granted, there could be variations on the concept, but not all THAT much…





The Local GW guy said it was a pretty good list

Damn straight he would! ANYTHING that gets a player buying 20 Screamers is going to be a good thing from GW's perspective!! :rolleyes:

Nikephoros
10-08-2009, 05:53 AM
Herald of Nurgle is a pretty horrible HQ. Screamers are horrible. Bloodletters and Daemonettes are horrible.

I dont see why you're skimping on your HQ. In a Daemon army your HQ is supposed to do the lion's share of the killing. There is a very good reason people run 2 Bloodthirsters at 1500 points, or 4 Khorne Heralds on Chariots with Unholy Might and Rending.

A maxim I have always followed since I started playing daemons is: max out HQ and Heavy Support first, add 2 units of plague bearers and 2 units of horrors, and then squeeze in as many units of good elites as you have points for left.

SlavesToDarkness
10-08-2009, 12:01 PM
First a question though, have you bought anything yet?

Everyone is correct, you should have some greater daemons in there. They are so good that, even though I play straight-Nurgle, I usually take 2 Great Unclean Ones rather than Epedemius.

1) Drop the herald of slaanesh. Drop 1 Bloodletter unit. Add Great Unclean One w/cloud of flies. Give an icon to your Plague Bearers, and an icon to another unit.

2) Drop a unit of Screamers and the Herald of Nurgle. Add in a Keeper of Secrets w/ upgrades.

3) Drop Iron Hide from your Tzeentch Daemon Prince and give him Bolt of Change. Attack, attack, always attack.

4) Again, split your Screamers into 2 units of 5.

I think you're getting a lot of advice (some of which conflicts) but you should DEFINATELY add in 2 greater daemons.