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View Full Version : 2010 is the year of the New Edition



Bigred
10-06-2009, 10:01 PM
Sources say that 2010 is going to the "year of WFB", centered around the release of the next edition.

No dates, but it keeps coming up in the chatter.

Brass Scorpion
10-06-2009, 11:15 PM
I was just speculating with a friend last night about what two armies would or should be included in the new WHFB starter set most likely coming next year. Battle For Skull Pass is a good set, but Goblins and Dwarfs are probably not the best or most iconic choices to sell Fantasy Battle to brand new customers. It didn't take us long to arrive at the conclusion that Bretonnians and Chaos Warriors would be the best choices for new, simple starter set plastics. Here are some reasons:
1) They are both human based armies which are generally more popular in pure sales volume, especially with beginners.
2) Bretonnians are an icon of good with their knights in shining armor and the other, Chaos, is a twisted, menacing flip side of that. Both are archetypes of what fantasy games are all about, especially Warhammer. Visually, these models explain themselves at a glance, making it easier to understand for the prospective beginners and therefore easier to sell for GW staff. Both armies are fairly easy to understand. I don't mean their rules, though that is also true. I mean the armies themselves. For prospective new fantasy game customers it can sometimes be difficult to understand the underlying concepts behind the models and associated games. These armies are easy to understand at a glance as visually they are Knights and Evil Knights, something not too hard to grasp for complete novices to the hobby. The ability to describe these armies in simplistic terms without much knowledge of underlying myth and legend makes them easy to market to people unfamiliar with fantasy literature or games.

Lord Azaghul
10-07-2009, 06:32 AM
I think it is entirely probably that a new version is in the works, but unless they fix fear and Immmune to psych they won't save the game.

New box? They really like to place greenskins in it! As long as its not daemons or vampires I'll probably buy the box - if the rules suck - I'm done with fantasy.

*tde*
10-07-2009, 08:18 AM
It didn't take us long to arrive at the conclusion that Bretonnians and Chaos Warriors would be the best choices for new, simple starter set plastics.

I'm sure the decision has been made but I absolutely agree with you. Lets get all John Blanche with WHFB.

Lord Azaghul
10-07-2009, 10:02 AM
Actually I can't see them doing two 'human' armies. Part of the appeal to fantasy is fantasy races.

I think the empire, brets, and HE ara legitmate options for good, as are greenskins, dark elves, Chaos.

I think they like to market the idea of a fantasty realm, not just one of good and evil knights.

wittdooley
10-07-2009, 10:11 AM
Actually I can't see them doing two 'human' armies. Part of the appeal to fantasy is fantasy races.

I think the empire, brets, and HE ara legitmate options for good, as are greenskins, dark elves, Chaos.

I think they like to market the idea of a fantasty realm, not just one of good and evil knights.

I tend to agree here, but it wouldn't surprise me for them to do an Empire vs. Warriors of Chaos box either. That would play off of the WAR online pairing and could potentially attract people that way. Even better, I think, would be an Empire vs General Chaos, with them throwing in some Beasts and some Warriors. Probably won't happen, but I think that would support the fantasy aspect even more. Who knows!

twistinthunder
10-07-2009, 01:11 PM
i'm thinking empire/brettonians and daemons

Lord Azaghul
10-07-2009, 01:46 PM
i'm thinking empire/brettonians and daemons

I think the last thing they need to do rigth now it release the daemons in the starters set.

Aldramelech
10-07-2009, 01:53 PM
I bloody hope not! Ive only just brought this editions rulebook!

This hobby sucks sometimes!

Lord Azaghul
10-07-2009, 02:23 PM
I for one hope the rumor is true, the current state of fantasy is a rapidly deteriorating one. If gw can not find/release a fix for the probelms they created soon the game will find it self pushed to the back selves.

My personally after about 8-10 back to back games gainst either daemons or vampires in touriments I didn't even want to play... it took a couple of months for my friends to convince me to bring my dwarves/greenskins back out... the frustrating part: it just not fun playing against an army that you need a good set of 'Luck" to beat. The only army I hated at the start of 7th was vampires, and I could still beat an average player however by the end of it daemons and vampires were both so highly powered that only poor players using them lost, its just not fun to feel like nothing you makes a diffrence cause they can either raise it back up, or your own turn of shooting wasn't enough to stop his/her army.

To me it seems that when 40-60% of touriniment goes play the same 2-3 armies, for over a year = something is wrong with the game.

I think if GW places one of the power armies in the next starter box it will only hurt their sales, because a lot of long time hobbiest have a bad taste in their mouths from those books.

Herald of Nurgle
10-07-2009, 03:45 PM
Chaos Dwarves vs. Ogres or die, plx?

On a more serious note, I can see the point of having Chaos vs. Brets/Empire, but something tells me Empire is more likely. Empire provides a player with a variety of stuff instead of just the Knight Rush, making it a far better set. I can also see perhaps some sort of gimmicky 'Second Wave' Chaos unit - such as Forsaken, or FB Spawn - released much as Nobz were for Black Reach. That would be awesome - the rising alongside the fallen.

On the other hand, why not Beasts of Chaos vs. Wood Elves or something? Both not included in a starter set before, narrative enemies much like Dwarves/Goblins, and at least ONE of them is likely to have an army book before new edition hits if the WD spoiler is to be trusted. Both ranges could use the sales growth as well, right?

Brass Scorpion
10-07-2009, 05:49 PM
Remember, it's a starter set and the idea is to keep it simple, both the model assembly and playing the game to start with.

As for anyone who just bought a rule book, you'll still get a good 9 months of use out of it at least, maybe more, even if they do a new rules revision next year.

Finally, regarding the suggestion speculating Daemons for the starter set, no, that's not going to happen, not ever, for the obvious reasons. Starter sets are marketed a lot to moms and dads and their kids, the models in the set can't be too scary, especially to the parents of kids totally new to the ideas behind fantasy gaming. That army is never going to be a starter army.

wittdooley
10-07-2009, 07:20 PM
Finally, regarding the suggestion speculating Daemons for the starter set, no, that's not going to happen, not ever, for the obvious reasons. Starter sets are marketed a lot to moms and dads and their kids, the models in the set can't be too scary, especially to the parents of kids totally new to the ideas behind fantasy gaming. That army is never going to be a starter army.

And this is entirely why I could potentially see another starter box involving the Orcs & Gobbos.

Brass Scorpion
10-07-2009, 08:26 PM
GW has never done the same armies twice in a row for Fantasy starter sets. Unlike 40K where Marines are the iconic "flagship" army of the game and are included in every boxed version of 40K, there is no single army with that status for Fantasy and no two consecutive Fantasy starter sets have ever had a consecutively repeated army in them. First was Elves and Goblins, then Bretonnians and Lizardmen, then Empire and Orcs, then Goblins and Dwarves. It's certainly not impossible, but I think to freshen up the next starter set you're going to see two totally different armies than what is in Skull Pass, and that means no Goblins till at least the next rotation after that. Frankly, I 'm surprised that Orcs and Goblins were in consecutive sets the one time they did it since the two are so closely related. Given how many of those large $175 US Orc and Goblin boxed armies they got stuck with right after the current version of WHFB was released, I would think they'd avoid "greenskins" entirely for a while to give the game a fresher face on the next release.

Ejacobs
10-08-2009, 06:43 AM
I haven't played WFB since 1996, but I'm considering getting back into it. Nice simple starter armies with rules I can share with my kids, and wife if she'll listen, would be great! ;)

My vote is for Empire vs Chaos. It is really very much in line with WAR and they are the iconic good guys vs bad guys for the setting. I know folks have their faves, but the Empire is the center of the world, and Chaos is its primary threat... though skaven might be a nice change, though I doubt that will happen since they are just releasing them now. Will they add skaven to the starter for 8th edition?

E

wittdooley
10-08-2009, 07:13 AM
My vote is for Empire vs Chaos. It is really very much in line with WAR and they are the iconic good guys vs bad guys for the setting. I know folks have their faves, but the Empire is the center of the world, and Chaos is its primary threat...

E



See, this is what I'd lean heavily towards too, only I'd be a bit concerned that it didn't portray the fantasy aspect enough. It's not a huge deal to me, and I think this starter would be HUGELY successful, but I can't help but think they'd want to play up the fantasy aspect more.

Brass-- I hear where you're coming with the O&G. Makes perfect sense. I only suggest them because they seem the 'friendliest' of all the "bad" fantasy-themed armies.

Brass Scorpion
10-08-2009, 08:10 AM
I hear where you're coming with the O&G. Makes perfect sense. I only suggest them because they seem the 'friendliest' of all the "bad" fantasy-themed armies.
You certainly have a point and that's probably why they have made so many appearances in starter sets. Even people with no familiarity with myths, legends or fantasy games have probably heard of orcs and goblins or at least can grasp the idea quickly when seeing the models.

Anyway, this is all just fun speculation, but given the fact that one does not see a lot of Goblin or Dwarf armies out there right now is a good sign that whatever they do for the next WHFB starter set it really needs to be different than what's in the Skull Pass set now.

Lord Azaghul
10-08-2009, 08:20 AM
Anyway, this is all just fun speculation, but given the fact that one does not see a lot of Goblin or Dwarf armies out there right now is a good sign that whatever they do for the next WHFB starter set it really needs to be different than what's in the Skull Pass set now.

SInce I love and play both armies I have to defend them briefly:

I don't think you see either army alot right now is more because they aren't very competative.
O&G is so self handicapping - especially in 7th ed. And Dwarves can't kill any thing in CC, and the newer books have really nerfed shooting, while increasing offensive magic, making dwarves less and less viable.

That being said, I think it would be, as more often then not, one human race and one non-human race.

Yhcrana
10-08-2009, 05:38 PM
I am in the process of starting up my own gaming store and I therefore am privy to information that the general public cannot get.

For example I have the list for the top 200 selling gw products.

For warhammer fantasy the armies that sell the most products are empire, orcs & goblins, high elves and vampire counts.

So it makes sense for gw to capitalise on these popular armies and promote them in starter sets.

I wouldn't be suprised if high elves make a return and they are versus orc & goblins. It still has the good vs. evil factor but is not too scary that parents won't buy it for their children. Also lotr movies have promoted elves and orcs a long way and there is more money in fantasy that lotr, so if that's what the child wants then gw can persuade them to go along the fantasy lines rather than lotr miniatures.

Promoting the top selling armies is what gw does, just look at space marines. My regional gw manager told me that space marines make up 40% of 40k sales and 40k is about 50% of total sales. Thus space marines make up for 20% of the total gw sales. No wonder they are promoted relentlessly and have new books and models coming out regularly, it is good business.

Rhellion
10-08-2009, 06:57 PM
If I had to guess, I would say the new armies in the box would be Empire and Vampire Counts.

GPrime
10-09-2009, 02:37 AM
If I had to guess, I would say the new armies in the box would be Empire and Vampire Counts.

I cant see undead being in the starter set.

The staring races should teach new players the fundementals of the game i.e. charge,hit stuff get beat, run away.

Armies like undead dont follow this system.

The box set armies should teach the rule before we learn to exploit them;)

Herald of Nurgle
10-10-2009, 06:00 AM
For example I have the list for the top 200 selling gw products.

Any other information, great and honourable Yhcrana?

icecube
10-10-2009, 10:39 AM
Iīd like to know that were the lizardmen a "bad" army when the first starter set acame out as i myself canīt think of either the high elves or the lizardmen being a "bad" army these days, so the starter set doesnīt nececerily have to have an bad and an good army( altrough i think it will). The second thing i have to say is that maybe the`ill put an army with an pretty old codex into the starter set. Look at the previous starter sets for example: space marines mere immediately redone after AOBR and orcs & goblins were redone immideately after the battle for skull pass. Plus, werent nids redone after the battle for Macragge starter set? So wit these things in mind i think theill put in Bretonnia rather than empire( plus some not-so-old army) or empire and maybe tomb kings?

TheBitzBarn
10-18-2009, 08:31 AM
I think it is entirely probably that a new version is in the works, but unless they fix fear and Immmune to psych they won't save the game.

What in your opion is wrong with Fear and Immune to Psych?

Thanks

TheBitzBarn
10-18-2009, 08:42 AM
Any other information, great and honourable Yhcrana?

I can sum that List up Space Marine, Chaos Space Marines those 2 are 50% of all GW sales

eldargal
10-18-2009, 09:37 AM
So you're saying chaos space marines are 30% of GWs total sales?


I can sum that List up Space Marine, Chaos Space Marines those 2 are 50% of all GW sales

Tweak
10-18-2009, 01:56 PM
I hope the 2 armies they use in the new starter box is High Elves versus Dark Elves. This might be a default way to get new Dark and High Elf warriors, which right now both look terrible. And also another way to get a plastic Reaper Bolt Thrower, which is currently a big chunk of metal.

If they did High Elves versus Dark Elves i'd say that the contents, based on the Battle for Skull Pass box would be:


Mini Rule Book
Small gamers guide
Few peices of terrain (Probably High Elf styled)
A few characters, maybe Sorceress, Mage and Combat heroes
20 High Elf Spearman
10 High Elf Bowman
20 Dark Elf Warriors
10 Dark Elf Repeater Crossbowman
2 Warmachines (Bolt Throwers)

Any who thats just my wish list because i want new Dark Elf Warrior models and another Sorceress model.

Another option could be Dark Elves versus Lizardmen.

Lord Azaghul
10-19-2009, 06:26 AM
What in your opion is wrong with Fear and Immune to Psych?

Thanks

Daemons and VC have the game stacked very far in their favor. The only rules which are core rules that can be fixed are fear and immune to psych. Autobreak (insane courage) need to just go bye-bye.
Beyond that fact that most of the newer books immune to psych is almost everywhere.

twistinthunder
10-20-2009, 11:39 AM
I cant see undead being in the starter set.

The staring races should teach new players the fundementals of the game i.e. charge,hit stuff get beat, run away.

Armies like undead dont follow this system.

The box set armies should teach the rule before we learn to exploit them;)

ok i agree about the vampires but tomb kings arent exactly your typical run-of-the-mill raise-your-guys-back-up
army.

twistinthunder
10-20-2009, 11:41 AM
Iīd like to know that were the lizardmen a "bad" army when the first starter set acame out as i myself canīt think of either the high elves or the lizardmen being a "bad" army these days, so the starter set doesnīt nececerily have to have an bad and an good army( altrough i think it will). The second thing i have to say is that maybe the`ill put an army with an pretty old codex into the starter set. Look at the previous starter sets for example: space marines mere immediately redone after AOBR and orcs & goblins were redone immideately after the battle for skull pass. Plus, werent nids redone after the battle for Macragge starter set? So wit these things in mind i think theill put in Bretonnia rather than empire( plus some not-so-old army) or empire and maybe tomb kings?

skaven instead of empire or brettonia, brettonia arent exactly a great starter army.

nathaniel
10-21-2009, 10:39 AM
I think that some of the recent suggestions in this thread are not iconic enough. It will be two armies that are versatile enough in their backgrounds to be fighting all over the old world (or more importantly a couple of books shoved under a green mat). I very much doubt they will stick tomb kings in as a starter as they don't really fit, they are based in khemri and have no real business fighting in the northern wastes or the worlds edge mountains, the counter argument to this is that GW used lizard men as a starter force and this army suffers in exactly the same way (why were they fighting Bretonians!?) but from what i recall it was not a popular decision and I doubt GW will do the same again.

As for Dark vs High elves I think these armies would be far too similar in look and list combination so this would also be a no no. They will pick to armies with a stark, different look and playing quality, that have different strengths and weaknesses.

Empire is a good shout for a possibility, They have not been in a starter set before which seems strange as a lot of the fluff is written from their perspective. Who they fight is more difficult. OaG is a really great starter army but has already been used in 2 editions. CW are just evil men and i would expect two entirely different races. Skaven are just having a re-release now which I think puts them out the running. I agree with previous comments that VC have too much of a specialised playing style for a starter set but i think empire and VC would be a cool combo. It would look great and there are a million different reasons why the two would come in to contact all over the old world,

Personally my ideal would be High Elf / Chaos. They are the antithesis of each other and there is nothing like pitting tough close combat powerhouses against agile and nimble foes with excellent twangage! Plus the magic phase when these two meet is always something else!

thats my 2 cents.

Lord Azaghul
10-21-2009, 12:14 PM
Empire is a good shout for a possibility, They have not been in a starter set before which seems strange as a lot of the fluff is written from their perspective. Who they fight is more difficult. OaG is a really great starter army but has already been used in 2 editions.

thats my 2 cents.

Slight correction. I'm pretty sure the 6th ed box was empire vs O&G.


OT - I think O&G are so wonderfully characterful that they are a great addition to any starter set -however I think the all goblin 7th ed was not the best move

Xas
10-21-2009, 01:19 PM
empire was in the starter set before BfSP.

I'd say empire vs skaven. this fight can tae part in every city of the empire and walking rats are quite "cute" compared to blootsoaked vampires or ork brutes :)

Kloud
10-25-2009, 10:09 AM
Due to the "Always Strikes First", I don't see High elves as an army that should be in a starter box. The Starter box should include 2 armies that teach the fundamentals of Warhammer Fantasy Battles. And one of those fundamentals is charge initiative.

However, Dark Elves VS Chaos, would be a better match up. Hvy Armour vs Armour Piercing.

icecube
10-25-2009, 10:49 AM
However, Dark Elves VS Chaos, would be a better match up. Hvy Armour vs Armour Piercing.

Canīt see that coming as they both are "evil" races. Empire is a good guess i think and then maby warriors of chaos.

Pael
11-14-2009, 03:03 PM
It is going to be Empire versus Beasts of Chaos, look at the big picture... in the latest rulebook with the giant beast deamon!!!

Brass Scorpion
11-15-2009, 08:28 PM
Empire or Bretonnians for the "good guys" and Orcs, Goblins or Chaos for the "bad" guys in the new starter set.

RocketRollRebel
11-17-2009, 09:47 PM
Classic Empire and O&G would be a good box. Especially if it went hand in hand with a new army book release for either army (probably O&G).