IG Special and Heavy Weapons squads

[lobster-overlord]

Hi all,

I have been using my IG for large Apoc games, but considering I usually only run 30 infantry models and a TON of tanks, I am not used to lots of squad options, especially with the new codex.

I like the Heavy Weapons squads in this book better, but I have a question about both the Heavy and Special weapons options.

Is it better to run mixed units, or solid units? That is, should I have a mix of Heavy weapon types or special weapon types, or go for units of the same weapons, like 3 Heavy Bolters or 3 Flamers?

I bought a large vostroyan lot with a number of minis of each type.

My play style is to hold one unit in place and move another while the stationary unit provides cover fire for several turns. This would make sense for me to have solid sniper units and mobile flamer squads, and stationary tank killer Lascannon units with mobile heavy bolter squads to move up on infantry. I would opt to do this rather than mix it up and have a grenade, plas and flamer in one unit or Mortar, HB and LC in one unit.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

John M>

[Squirrel_Fish]

I'd say focused units - Three Flamers, Three Autocannons, Three Meltas etc. Doing this means that their weapons don't go to waste against their targets. For example, if you have a squad with a heavy bolter, a mortar and a lascannon, if you shoot at Armor, the heavy bolter and mortar shots are wasted, while if you shoot at infantry the lascannon is wasted.

[Chumbalaya]

Definitely focus your units, they all have to fire at the same target.

For HWS, I recommend autocannons every time. They're cheap, versatile, and don't need orders to be effective so Ld7 isn't a huge hindrance. I don't put much stock in SWS since PCS do the same thing for cheaper and get orders.

[drummerholt1234]

I agree with Chumalaya on the SWS. The only real advantage to them is the demo charges that they can take but I feel that demo-vets do that job better.

[lobster-overlord]

I'm using Vostroyan models, so without conversion, which I am up for, my choices are limited on which weapons, but I do have enough to field squads of each type while still augmenting squads with SW choices. I do have some cadians which I've built into the Autocannons, so I do plan on running those, and the sentinels I've built are all autocannons, so I have plenty of those running around as well.

Thanks for the input peoples.

I have the following

2x flamer squads
1x plasma squad
2 x sniper squad (one has a flamer due to odd numbers of each)
1x grenadier squad
1x melta squad (cadian, 2x melta, 1 grenade)


2x lascannon squads
1x lascannon squad (steel legion models)
1x mortar squad
1x heavy bolter squad
1x heavy bolter squad (steel legion)
6 various cadians (2x hb, 1x las, 1x auto, 2x missiles)

plus each infantry squad has a SW, which is a total of 8 others and a heavy weapon.


This will help me build a tank killer army as well for Tanksgiving. 2,500 pts, lots of tanks and no force org other than 1 HQ and tanks.

John M>

[SandWyrm]

I dislike both HWS and SWS.

Heavy Weapons Squads can be insta-killed by a multi-laser and will run at the drop of a hat. While Special Weapons Squads can't do much that a PCS can do better.

Instead, I'd integrate the Autocannons into your line squads and blob them into a 30-man unit (with Commissar) than can sit on an objective and pour AC fire into targets across the board.

That gives you a great objective-holder that will stay put and pour fire into the enemy with the single order from a nearby PCS. They're big enough that most of the unit can sit in cover while you position an Autocannon tenticle wherever the firing angle is best. And there's nothing short of a heavy flamer that will pry them loose. Even close-combat will be dicey for most opponents.

[ColCorbane]

Just to confirm, dedicated your units like everyone else has said.

I'm a bit concerned at how many sws's you have, you can only have two per platoon, so you're going to need 4 platoons (100 models) to field them all. Have you considered dropping a few into vet squads.

Also, don't bother with sniper sws, that them as a small unit of count-as ratlings, they're far more effective imo.

[Lord Azaghul]

If you’re going to take snipers – point for point ratlings are the best buy +1 cover and BS of 4
I don’t really think SW are worth the cost – the start of cost seems to put a damper on it – your better off upgradering you CCS, or your PCS.
HW teams – I love them, and youre better off focusing for effect. Spliting them up means you end up wasting effectiveness. Instant death can get in the way and someone will always shoot at our lascannons, but I still perfer squads of hw teams over a hw in a 10man squad.

I typciall take 1 squad of LC, 1 squad of AC, and 1 or mortars – mortars are awesome against anything not in a vehcile

[Aldramelech]

I agree with alot of the above.

Ratlings are a better buy. Focus the Hvy weap. squads.

I use the weapon teams that form part of the squad for variety. One squad has a Missile launcher one has a Hvy Bolter etc

[lobster-overlord]

Hi all,

I appreciate all the information. As to the need to have a ton of infantry to field all of the SWS. I do have tons of infantry squads to help out. I've mainly just listed them to indicate which models I have. I broke some of them apart last night as I built CCS and PCS for my army. Thus far, I will likely field 2 PCS and 3 CCS with 3 infantry squads, 2 HWS and 2 SWS each. In a normal 40K game, I'll likely whittle that down, but for Apoc, I'm not too concerned about my number of companies (just the squad restrictions for each).

I do have a third PCS, which is Creed/Kell and troops.

For my 40K army, I was thinking Lord Commisar, PCS w/ chimera, 2x Infantry Platoons each with a chimera for the CS, 2x Vets, Valk w/ one of the SWS, 1 Leman Russ squad, 2x sentinel squads -- 2 each until I build more.

I am thinking I will build one platoon as an assault platoon, with flamers and meltas as SWS and HB and ACs as the HWs and the other platoon would be the stationary unitls with las/plas infantry, plas/grenade SWS and Lascannons as the HW choices. The assault platoon would have 2 chimeras and the valk for movement prior to getting into the mix.

John M.

[weeble1000]

I agree with SandWyrm. I don't like SWS and HWS in 5th ed. I used to run them in 4th, but HWS just get killed too easily. It's a lot of points to lose from a stray template or multilaser. And, like SandWyrm mentioned, it's sometimes hard to deploy them in decent cover and still give them a good firing position.

I don't like to blob my infantry because I think it reduces flexibility, but hiding a HW in an infantry squad still allows you to stick the HW in a good firing position and keep most of the squad in cover or out of LOS.

Platoon command squads fill the role of SWS pretty well, but one advantage of SWS is that you can take some casualties without losing a special weapon. Even so, SWS are fragile as hell. If you want to run them, I'd put them in a Chimera for extra protection. You can't take a dedicated transport for the SWS but you can take them for the infantry squads in your platoon and then embark the SWS on turn one.

[ColCorbane]

You can't take a dedicated transport for the SWS but you can take them for the infantry squads in your platoon and then embark the SWS on turn one.

I'm not definite on this but I think I read somewhere that only the unit the chimera was bought for could use it, anyone know if that's right?

[Chumbalaya]

I'm not definite on this but I think I read somewhere that only the unit the chimera was bought for could use it, anyone know if that's right?

You can only deploy the parent unit in the dedicated transport, but they can hop in turn 1.

[SandWyrm]

I'm not definite on this but I think I read somewhere that only the unit the chimera was bought for could use it, anyone know if that's right?

That was the rule in the last Codex. But that restriction has been lifted. Anyone can embark into the transport once it's on the table.

[ColCorbane]

Cheers guys

[RocketRollRebel]

Auto cannons ftw! The conversion isnt that bad, I built mine out of the heavy bolters. Not a big fan of special weapons squads tho. I'd just rather take veterans. I also built their meltas out of the flamer minis. Its just an expensive army but well worth it. ;)

[lobster-overlord]

I have so many flamers ,that I was looking to use them to convert the meltas. I do have several Cadian units, which is how I started my IG, but never finished until I got this huge Vost lot.

I have so many Lascannons, that a few into ACs shouldn't be too hard. I have a ton of the bitz since a friend of mine didn't use them out of an IG battle box.

John M>

[lobster-overlord]

I re-read the rules for the PCS, and WOW! I didn't realize that it allowed for you to have one guy and 4 specials in the unit.

Based on models I have alone, I reworked my units and I now have two veteran squads, one with 2 snipers and one with 3 flamers, both with a HW in the mix. I made 8 squads of infantry, each with a plasma gun and lascannon. The cadians I have fill out 3 more squads with mixed HW and SW and that left me with 3 SWS, one flamers, one snipers and one meltas. The remaining SWs went to the two PCS units, one with 4 grenade launchers and one with 2, a flamer and a guy with a las pistol which I'll convert into something.

That also freed up models to fill out the Company command so I can convert some body guards out of the tons of extra officers I have (this lot I bought was weird).

I'm not too worried about point cost as this point since I'm gearing this army for Apoc, but the HQ units will work nicely for my Anti Tank Tanksgiving game.

JohN M>

[SandWyrm]

I have so many flamers ,that I was looking to use them to convert the meltas. I do have several Cadian units, which is how I started my IG, but never finished until I got this huge Vost lot.

I have so many Lascannons, that a few into ACs shouldn't be too hard. I have a ton of the bitz since a friend of mine didn't use them out of an IG battle box.

John M>

You can buy a sprue of meltaguns from the Space Marine Bitz section of the GW website for only $8. They're perfect for Cadian conversions.

[lobster-overlord]

Or I can convert using old GIJoe guns for free ;-) Plus I have tons of bitz. Coming up with models isn't hard. It's getting time away from the rug-rats that's the problem (I've lost the newness of my IG codex tonight. I walked in on my 3 year old using a pen across the Creed page)

btw, I've posted my 2,500 pt list that I built with the suggestions here in mind.
http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?t=2622