Blood Angel Rumors and More

[Bigred]

Well, well, well, some interesting things have been floating around the tubes over the last 24 hours boys and girls.

First this tidbit from bolterandchainsword:


"-The BA 'dex is DONE and complete already.

-New conversion kits similar to the ones made for the space wolves. These kits are said to be EXTRAORDINARY (I mean.. beautiful!), with a level of detail similar to that of the models in space hulk (or even better). (PS this seems quite certain, it has been confirmed by my local GW seller, who also stated some big news about BA may be revealed at the italian games day).

SOME informations about the rules

-The codex will allow the player to field a top notch assault army: assault squads will be a troop choice, with options similar to those of the new gray hunters in the SW dex: 2Xspecial weapons and no heavy weapons at all (of course). Sergents will be similar to those of the SM dex (more options: tunder hummer, LC and such).

- a psionic power called "vortex of blood", or something like that, will give the caster a CC attacks bonus equal to the number of models in base contact (or even in combat radius?! but it would be too powerful..)

-New indipendent characters.

I can't assure these rumors are true, of course. I just TRIED to translate them in english and posted them here.

Ah, date of release: march, after the tyrs."

Followed by this delicious morsel (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4023278&postcount=5)from Warseer's Harry:


"Blood Angels are only half the story. :)"

-Some take this to mean Dark Angels, or a return of the Angels of Death combo codex. Harry seems to indicate that an Angels of Death retread is not in the cards. Perhaps 2 stand alone back to back marine codices? Dark Angels, Templars... who can say? BoLS has been hearing a steady stream of chatter regarding 2 marine books getting back to back quick updates on the heels of Tyranids, with Blood Angels/Dark Angels coming up more often than not.

[eldargal]

Exciting! I'm sure all the BA (and possibly DA) players will be happy. Those that don't find something to whine about, that is.

[Katie Drake]

Harry's pretty much put the Angels of Death rumor to rest, but now there seem to be hints that the Black Templars will be hot on the Blood Angels' heels. If this is indeed the case, it's time for Imperial players to rejoice! Also, to all the xenos/chaos players - that means all of the Imperial books will be out of the way which means you guys will finally get the attention that you need and deserve.

[eldargal]

Except Sisters of Battle.:p Well, someone had to say it.


Harry's pretty much put the Angels of Death rumor to rest, but now there seem to be hints that the Black Templars will be hot on the Blood Angels' heels. If this is indeed the case, it's time for Imperial players to rejoice! Also, to all the xenos/chaos players - that means all of the Imperial books will be out of the way which means you guys will finally get the attention that you need and deserve.

[Hokiecow]

Harry's pretty much put the Angels of Death rumor to rest, but now there seem to be hints that the Black Templars will be hot on the Blood Angels' heels. If this is indeed the case, it's time for Imperial players to rejoice! Also, to all the xenos/chaos players - that means all of the Imperial books will be out of the way which means you guys will finally get the attention that you need and deserve.

Ehhhh, they still have SOBs, =I=, and maybe some new SM armies to release to slow down xenos releases. :(

[Brass Scorpion]

Do the Watchers In The Dark dare to dream of a more exciting Codex for their charges? One can only hope. Let's celebrate with a reminder of where the inspiration for the chapter and it's primarch's name originated (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Johnson). Only GW would dare turn a self-loathing poet and his most famous work into silly pulp fun for a tabletop miniatures game.

[Aenir]

For The Lion!!!

*Hopefully*

[Dan-e]

This news makes this necron player very sad

: [

[fuzzbuket]

YAY no more paper dex's:D:D:D
if =][= get done next year as well as BA im so happy:D (that i'm a gumy bear)

Woohoo

Fuzzbuket

[FirstLegion]

This news makes this necron player very sad

: [

Happily, I am a Blood Angel player as well. Perhaps GW figures Necrons slept for so many millennia before, they can just do it again?

[EmperorEternalXIX]

Terrible.

There should NEVER be multiple back to back codex releases of Space Marine armies. If anything it should be "Imperial, Xeno, Xeno."

[eldargal]

Well, we don't know for sure that it is, so far we have Space Wolves, Tyranids, probably Blood Angels and ??? It may be something spectacularly unexpected and not Marines.:)

Edit: A new model for Dante would be nice, I think the current one is sadly underwhelming when commpared with the other Chapter Master models, even one of similar vintage like Azrael (though it doesn't compare to the new Calgar model).


Terrible.

There should NEVER be multiple back to back codex releases of Space Marine armies. If anything it should be "Imperial, Xeno, Xeno."

[Abominable Plague Marine]

There should NEVER be multiple back to back codex releases of Space Marine armies. If anything it should be "Imperial, Xeno, Xeno."

I have to disagree, as there currently only 6 Xenos races (with Codex) and 7 Imperial Codexes, that would make it very one sided. 50/50 Imperial to Non-Imperial, and Nids are next anyway, so the mix looks about right to me.

Eldar
Dark Eldar
Chaos Space Marines
Chaos Daemons
Tau
Necrons
Orks
Tyranids

Imperial Guard
Daemon Hunters
Witch Hunters
Space Marines
Dark Angels
Space Wolves
Black Templars
And if they introduce Blood Angels

[Melissia]

Oh yay. Another ****ing Space Marine codex. As if that faction hasn't already been updated twice this edition. /yawn.

[Abominable Plague Marine]

Are you being sarcastic?

[gwensdad]

I'd also like to see an "all-inquisition" codex and a united Dark/Blood Angel codex but that's not likely to happen because that's 25$ per book GW wouldn't be getting from everyone. :(

(so why can't ALL the founding loyalist Chapters get codexes? My White Scars need one, right? And the Raven Guard attention coming in IA:8 doesn't count, they should get one too)

[Katie Drake]

Except Sisters of Battle.:p Well, someone had to say it.

Oh, right. Sorry, I don't count them as a real army in my head.

[RocketRollRebel]

My bank account is soooo screwed! New codex's for the 2 armies that I play 12 months from each other! I'm still recovering from the IG tank blitz! Ah who am I kidding I'm singing and dancing.:p

GLORY TO THE IXth LEGION!

[wittdooley]

Dear Games Workshop--

PUHLEEEEEEZE release a Xenos army first. Please. My wallet hurts.

[TalonZahn]

So there's 16 total "races/codex" in 40K and we can call 7 of them Marine based at the least. Of course there was only 15 until they split out Demons. This means that almost 50% of the 40K codecii are Space Marines. Currently 43.75%, since we have a scientist among us.

Eldar
Dark Eldar
Chaos Space Marines
Chaos Daemons
Tau
Necrons
Orks
Tyranids
Imperial Guard
Daemon Hunters Face it, you're space marines with little add-ons
Witch Hunters
Space Marines
Dark Angels
Space Wolves
Black Templars
Blood Angels

So then we get to listen to this:


Oh yay. Another ****ing Space Marine codex. As if that faction hasn't already been updated twice this edition. /yawn.

The sad thing about SoB is, they are Space Marines for CHICKS. How do we get GURLS to play? Make female marines of course! They took Space Marines and added some IG flare, made sure they can ally and got DH. Took DH and added estrogen to them and got SoB.

Guess what.

YOU ARE SPACE MARINES!

Every thread is a Melissa SoB threadjack. Someone tell me how to block her responses from being seen or maybe she should be banned for constantly threadjacking every thread.

The GW thought process here is simple. They release Space Hulk and it gets eaten up like candy at a Fat Camp. They follow that with Tyranids and Blood Angels to pull sales of the recent boost to those ranges. Why you ask? Well, Tyranids were already in the works for like the previous year. The BA you ask? Well, because they have like 1 tank kit that is being turned into plastic (which all the pieces already exist in plastic) they just need to box and sell as a Baal. The Codex is done minus some points alterations to match the current C:SM. The Terminator minis are done if they use the SH ones (pure genius since they have the moulds and wouldn't have to re-release SH). They provide a Blood Angel upgrades box, a la Space Wolves, and .... wait for it.... POW! Sales boost for BA/SM stuff for all the old BA players rejoicing and all the recent BA Space Hulk converts.

Max profit with very little investment on the GW end. They aren't stupid. GW knows where most of their money comes from. That's right, Marines. Goody Two Shoe Boys in Blue Marines, or Blood Sucking Vampire Marines that look like Fabio, or Drunk Viking Werewolf Marines, or Shiney Silver Demon Killers, or Gothic Dominatrix Chicks in Black Marines, or... that's right, they're ALL Marines!

All SoB stuff is metal. That means all new minis for the range. Look at DE and tell me how soon you expect to get your SoB army? Yea, I thought so. You want it done now, or done right? Yea, I thought so. WH/SoB are a fringe army that pulls nowhere near the numbers or the profit as SM based armies. Deal with it.

The Blood Angels are coming soon. However, I don't put any money on what was posted. It looks like someone took the Space Wolf codex and changed the names to match the BA, then called it a rumor.

[Archon]

Every thread is a Melissa SoB threadjack. Someone tell me how to block her responses from being seen or maybe she should be banned for constantly threadjacking every thread.

What causes more trouble to a topic. The one line Melissa has posted or your "side-long" complaining about that? There will always be someone who says: "WTF another SM Dex?!" :rolleyes:

I for myself are not happy with the fact that there comes another SM Dex along the road. I want an CSM Dex with nice rules for the legions and even nicer upgrade packs for IW, EC etc. For me two SM Dexes are enough - one for vanilla and one for BA, DA, BT, SW all in one :p but for the beloved chaos there shall be 5 at least:cool:

[wittdooley]

Every thread is a Melissa SoB threadjack. Someone tell me how to block her responses from being seen or maybe she should be banned for constantly threadjacking every thread.



Wow. Angry much? Maybe you should get over yourself and realize that its kinda become a running joke here; one that most of us actually appreciate and find humourous.

[Anarchyman99]

...... Perhaps GW figures Necrons slept for so many millennia before, they can just do it again?

Well said...damn metal nurgle...go to sleep!

[TalonZahn]

Wow. Angry much? Maybe you should get over yourself and realize that its kinda become a running joke here; one that most of us actually appreciate and find humourous.

Wow. White Knight much?

Yes, it's humorous seeing the same SoB crap over and over. It gets old. It has also had threads shut down because of it.

[Aldramelech]

Melissia is the Marmite of BOLS...........

I would like to see a different Codex personally, but hay ho, they'll do what they do and any amount of moaning ain't gonna change that.....

[steeldragon]

I already have my own Space Marine army using the Space Marine Codex... then Space Wolves appeared and make me think of this wonderful idea of building another 'company' of my own paint scheme but using Space Wolves new and pretty models and rules... now I can do that with Blood Angels too... it's scary... Marines in all flavours. :D

I would love to see what they do with BA.

Andres

[Kefka]

Although I have no interest in the BA codex, and have my wishes that it was something else, I can't say it's not expected. They released that "get you by" WD article about two years ago, and in it they said they were working on Blood Angels. That means they have been so close to finishing for along time. My guess is, BA were a GW side project after that article that was only worked on in free time, that's why an army 80% done got two years to finish.
My other guess is that they were getting them ready for a release along side the rumoured Blood Angels movie (based on the comics, dang, can't remember what it was called...) but with us knowing it's called ULTRAMARINES and probably stars ULTRAMARINES there was no need to hold them back any more.
There certainly are a lot of marine chapters with there own codex. I almost think they should release one for every chapter and get it over with. Maybe add some rules for Apocalypse game primarchs or something to add a little flare. Wild dreams man, wild dreams.

[sangrail777]

I just got in the wire, hit the net and what do I see.....O HAPPY DANCE FOR ME HAPPY HAPPY DANCE!!! I'm so freaking excited! A new codex! A new upgrade kit!!
So sincere prayers go out to all the others still waiting for there codexes of course.
Still gotta be happy that my Blood Angels can finally burn a couple of White Dwarf issues.
FOR SANGUINIUS!!

[Dan-e]

Personally i understand why they are doing so many Marines lately... i mean in the current economy you don't sink money into a product line that has a niche market to it. By releasing "conversion" kits for army's they sell their old stock and new at the same time... it makes perfect sense.

Consider the older codex's do often have a lot of metal models this makes sense to release army's that don't need a lot of new kits/molds... If any of the =I= were to get updated they would most likely need a lot of new plastic molds which take time to make.

I remember reading some where that GW has staff to make only so many casting molds a year. If they can do only 1 or two new molds for a single army and save time for the army's that needs a lot more then they are going to do those army's first. As someone pointed out, its really only needs a few new things: a IC or two, a conversation kit like the Wolf-pack that i am sure will make death company (or what ever you BA player call those guys) and normal Tactical/Assault marines alike, and the Baal Tank. Compared to what new items they would WANT to make for the older armies.

After all you have to remember that they are trying to work metal out of the system as much as possible to keep the market from screwing with their bottom line.

Which in my opinion your most likely to see Xeno's like Necron or Tau before the Witch/daemon Hunters and any other armys that have a lot of key metal models, Since these armys are already made of a lot of plastic.

Not sure what ratio DE are Metal:Plastic, since i haven't ever really looked at their product line nor seen a player who has an DE army

I wouldn't want to market a product that i couldn't comfortably predict its cost before hand. The market for their metals could spike before production hits and it could hurt them if they didn't take the time to make lot of new plastic molds. As i remember reading in their last company report they sank a lot into new plastic production a while back, and it is just now starting to pay off (i recall them saying they are very happy they chose to do it when they did, regardless of what it did to their stock)


And then the Necron Logic over takes the Human Logic and screams F'N GW... NO MORE MARINES.... unless its raven guard : ] or Legion of the Damned : ]

[Xas]

I think GW has went on an all positive course since start of 5th edition.

The space marine line has gone to all plastic (bare some single HQ models). That this was first should suprise noone as space marines are multi-useable and make up 50% of all armies (by dexes).

Orks and IG have gone the same way, although they are not totally finished yet (stormtroopers, ogryns, ratlings, kans and buggies for orks as well as meganobz).

now GW has done the two space wolve upgrade kits (pack=power and scout armor, termies=termie armor) who are also quite good at makeing palstic HQ modells (so basically every and all models bar the thunderwolves can be made from plastic) and got another army on the train with just a little time investment.

next will be nids who would have been a bit more work (new species, plastification of metal modells).


then gw does another "cheap" (on times of scultping and general work) project with the BA (as said, one repackaging of different tank sprues for the plastic baal as well as wolf-ish upgrade packs).


god knows what is next but if it is another cheap marine chapter we can be asshured that GW uses the "spare" time to work on some of the harder projects (DE need a whole new modell line. NECs need a bucked of new ideas, units and wargear to get away from the "boring" feeling they have atm. the inquisition while many units are available need much work on the converting of metal to plastic but as well on codex writing to capture the whole feeling well which isnt as easy with them as with prolly all the other armies) to make them turn out great.


werent the orks just like DE/NEC before there update? look what they are now and look forward to YOUR day of rejoice.

if you cannot wait, jump the bandwaggon and play marines....

[The West Coast Knight]

You all have some good points even Melissa but one thing you must remenber is GW's percentage of sales for minis is about 60% Space Marines and 40% everything else.
And I mean everything else 40k, Fantasy, LOTR, Paint, Everything.
If you don't want to play with or against Space Marines perhaps you are playing the wrong company's game.
It would be like telling Honda to stop making and promoting the Accord or Ford to stop with the F-150 trucks.
As long as there are those of us out there buying 6 out of the 10 things we buy from GW being Marine based this will continue.
And for those of you complaining about your army not being redone you could always start a new one and when your book does get an update go back to your old army.

Just my 2 cents

WCK

[Marshal2Crusaders]

Templars!!!!! Woooooo!


I love how GW is lowering it's head and just charging through the codex making process. I can't wait to see what they release for us. New upgrade sprue? Terminators with tabards? I am just so excited!!!!

[Zaxter]

GW does seem to be going a bit far with space marines, but as a player it doesn't really worry me. It has already been said, marines make most of GW's money. I don't think they make up 6/10 of GW sales as The West Coast Knight said but they are big sellers and very popular.

To get back on topic though these rumors sound quite good even though they are only rumors. Blood Angels and Tyranids getting an update at the same time doesn't really seem like much of a coincidence with some old players getting back into 40K because of the return of Space Hulk.
The other thing that excites me is this (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4023278&postcount=5). If it's going to be an Angels of Death codex or whatever it's called, then... That would be okay, but I was hoping even more for a new Dark Angels codex as unlikely as it is. I'm new to 40K and I play Dark Angels so them getting a new codex and maybe some sets soon after I start playing would be great. But then again, unlikely.


But I think we should all just wait and see what will happen because these rumors are just rumors after all.

[Maxis Lithium]

I was reading Harry's other posts, and he says that they are NOT redoing dark angels right now, no matter how much some wish it otherwise. It is strongly believed on warseer that he is indicating Black Templar, which would complete the non-codex standard chapters, and leave very little Imperial material still in need of update for some time, save Inquisition and related model lines.

[eldargal]

Not quite, 40% of all 40k sales are Space Marine, 40K being 60% of all GW sales. Diversification is the key to long term viability though. Now that GW has its finances back on track with a 90% debt reduction since 2005 (or thereabouts) and 7.5m pound pre-tax profit for 2008 and I think we can expect a bit more attention for less popular races over the next couple of years. The company knows it is viable and will survive for the short term at least.


You all have some good points even Melissa but one thing you must remenber is GW's percentage of sales for minis is about 60% Space Marines and 40% everything else.
And I mean everything else 40k, Fantasy, LOTR, Paint, Everything.


WCK

[Kefka]

You know what I have realized? All the original loyalist chapters (ultramarines, Dark Angels, Space Wolfs, etc.) have either a codex or special character to make their army unique. Except one, Iron Hands. Sure, you can say a techmarine is a special character and take more dreadnoughts, but any SM codex chapter can do that. Look at White Scars to, although a Captain on a bike can make bikes troops, Korr'saro Khan can too, and give them outflank. So it really leaves Iron Hands with nothing but a weak fluff list and a conversion pack you have to bits order.
I'm just thinking... If Harry suggests there is something else coming, Iron Hands have long been looked over.

[Sinister Brain]

Space Sharks so need a codex now! j/k!

Actually I think the Space marine stuff is getting a little silly but it's their bread and butter so of course they are going to update them. I'll patiently wait for my DE codex to get updated. Probably have some fun with the new Skavens. :)
One things for sure they do need to work on some other codices. Nice to see Tyranids getting love but at my store there just to much Marine on marine violence! :(

[Wolfshade]

I am very very happy about the BA love :D

As pointed out elsewhere re-doing SM codecii are relatively easier since they already have basic SM model sorted out, jsut really need to give it an upgrade kit ala Space Wolves. Do I feel bad about army X for not being updated? Not so much, a new release is a new release and that's damn exciting. I look forward to the next new release and think, "what will X now throw at me with their new dex?". Which brings back some more exciting games otherwise its well I know that Y will always field this army...

And anyways I think if you had an army that couldn't get out of transports you'd like an update :D

[the one]

People don't forget that Chaos Demons were design to work in 5th edition not 4th.

[LEGION]

I absolutely love how everyone thinks that GW's only product or purpose in the world is to produce codexes and miniatures for THEIR army. Guess what people, GW have 3 CORE GAMES that they work on continuously. The same writers, sculptors, painters etc. have to devote time spread across those three games. So when everyone is busy complaining about a "easy" upgrade and half written dex, maybe that is because GW is busy redoing the whole line of skaven, or chaos dwarves, or War of the Ring, or new scenery.

Just because there may only be 3 big releases a year for YOUR game, as a company they have to have 9 big releases across all of their brands. So cut them some slack for a change.

[emperorsaxe]

Space Marines, love them or hate them, loyal or chaos. Does not matter they are the money makers for GW and I for one 'am glad to see another SM dex come out. Be it BA's or DA's or a combination matters not 'cause space marines IMHO are the koolest toys to ever be released by GW, just my two bolters rounds worth tho'.
Respects, Emperorsaxe

[DarkLink]

I absolutely love how everyone thinks that GW's only product or purpose in the world is to produce codexes and miniatures for THEIR army. Guess what people, GW have 3 CORE GAMES that they work on continuously. The same writers, sculptors, painters etc. have to devote time spread across those three games. So when everyone is busy complaining about a "easy" upgrade and half written dex, maybe that is because GW is busy redoing the whole line of skaven, or chaos dwarves, or War of the Ring, or new scenery.

Just because there may only be 3 big releases a year for YOUR game, as a company they have to have 9 big releases across all of their brands. So cut them some slack for a change.

I agree. Most people don't realize just how much work GW has on its hands, and how few people there are to do that work.

[Aldramelech]

If you consider LOTR to be a game system and not a complete waste of time and money! lol

[ggg]

I am excited by the blood angel codex. My first army was a blood angels army, and I remember defending the river styx in 2nd Edition boxed set missions. The White Dwarf codex is frankly sad in comparison to other proper dexes. The 13 year old in me has been truly reawoken.

I am quite breathless with the rate of 40k material that has been pumped out recently and was impressed to see how quickly the Wolves Codex flew off the shelves so it seems that there is the appetite for the boys from Baal. The Blood angel minatures in Space Hulk alone really do cry out for a codex to tie up what seems to be a loose end.

It is as if GW is tidying up their older classic armies - there are a surprising number of space wolf and blood angel players comming out of the woodwork because of those armies have been more emeshed in the fabric of the hobby. GW seems happier to relegate the newer armies - necrons, dark eldar and tau. I note how the wolves, blood angels and ultamarines also boast very strong black libruary support (I hated the BA books myself).

On a different angle, when the 5th edition rule book was brought out I was really fascinated by the 'end of times' concept and that there was a new era of battle, a sense that there was a climatic bringing together of threads. It seems that the Ba and other marine dex'es cannot fully engage with this - I know the wolves have the 'wolf time' thing, but really it is the really destructive forces such as nids and necrons that can really bring this across. I think these two codexes will introduce, with Dark Eldar (being an example of the legacy of a previous era of apocalypse), the greatest 40k plot movement.

Perhaps these two factors - 1. avoiding the natural 40k storyline denoument that the most powerful xenos codexes represent / encourage and 2. having old threads of profitable lines to easily clean up as a conveinient distraction - are the reasons that the table tops are missing the stronger Xenos presence that most gamers want to see.

I want to see more xeos and villains as they are the fundamental protagonists.
In order to make the BA and other forces of imperial (human) light shine we need truly dark forces to set them off in an evocative chiaroscuro which has been promised in 5th ed, but has not been, so far, delivered.

[Aldramelech]

Will I be able to use this book for Blood Ravens?

[Katie Drake]

Will I be able to use this book for Blood Ravens?

You can use whatever book you want as long as you're consistent about it. I'd imagine that Codex: Space Marines would be the best fit though, especially if you were to run, say, a "counts as" Tigurius to represent the power of the Blood Ravens' Librarians.

[Engelus]

I am a big fan of all marines being consistent. People always complain about "more marines" well, if they are gonna then all of em better have the neat toys.

I hope the templars get an update soon, I havn't crusaded in quite a while. but the blood angels getting updated is good news.

[Brother Hespithe]

I'd just like to see wargear made consistent... Storm Shields should be the same in every Imperial army...

Looking forward to seeing what's in store for the BA.

[Katie Drake]

I'd just like to see wargear made consistent... Storm Shields should be the same in every Imperial army...

They're workin' on it, one book at a time.

[DarkLink]

They're workin' on it, one book at a time.

I hope GW decides updating all the wargear options is important enough to finally do a Daemonhunters Dex. We still have the REALLY old storm shields, that can only be used against one other enemy model in combat, not just getting a 4+ invulnerable save in CC.

[Katie Drake]

I hope GW decides updating all the wargear options is important enough to finally do a Daemonhunters Dex. We still have the REALLY old storm shields, that can only be used against one other enemy model in combat, not just getting a 4+ invulnerable save in CC.

Yeah, I know. =/ That sucks. Hopefully the people you game with are decent enough to let you at least use it against multiple opponents per turn.

[Parcival]

I absolutely love how everyone thinks that GW's only product or purpose in the world is to produce codexes and miniatures for THEIR army. Guess what people, GW have 3 CORE GAMES that they work on continuously.

Right, that's why they better drop LOTR. (and I say this as a big Tolkien fan)

[Aldramelech]

Right, that's why they better drop LOTR. (and I say this as a big Tolkien fan)

100% agreement from me.

[Zaklifean]

I agree with TalonZahn. Every thread (SM related or not) I read has some post from Melissia complaining about Space Marines. It gets old real quick. We all understand that you hate space marines. But to post in every single thread how bad you hate marines and how much you hate that they get all these shiny new codexes is really rather ridiculous. As I was reading this, I actually started thinking to myself about when Melissia was going to show up with her pointless rants. Space Marines will ALWAYS be top priority with GW. Sad but true. You complaining and making it miserable for the rest of us will never ever change that fact.

[Aldramelech]

I agree with TalonZahn. Every thread (SM related or not) I read has some post from Melissia complaining about Space Marines. It gets old real quick. We all understand that you hate space marines. But to post in every single thread how bad you hate marines and how much you hate that they get all these shiny new codexes is really rather ridiculous. As I was reading this, I actually started thinking to myself about when Melissia was going to show up with her pointless rants. Space Marines will ALWAYS be top priority with GW. Sad but true. You complaining and making it miserable for the rest of us will never ever change that fact.

I have to say that my initial reactions were similar, but the girls grown on me!:D

Apart from telling Sangre to shut up (lol) her arguments are usually worth reading when she gets past the initial rant. Ive become quite fond of her......

[wittdooley]

I have to say that my initial reactions were similar, but the girls grown on me!:D

Apart from telling Sangre to shut up (lol) her arguments are usually worth reading when she gets past the initial rant. Ive become quite fond of her......

Watch out! Apparently feeling this way can get you ridiculed as being a "white knight." She has a lot of good things to say, and even made a freakin codex. It's not like she's just complaining without having some thought to go along with it.

[Aldramelech]

Watch out! Apparently feeling this way can get you ridiculed as being a "white knight." She has a lot of good things to say, and even made a freakin codex. It's not like she's just complaining without having some thought to go along with it.

White trash maybe.........;)

[Maria]

I for one would be happy that Blood Angels may get a real codex .. the amount of times i've had do-gooders telling me to use the normal sm codex is beyond belief! If i wanted to use a nice shiny shop bought one i would have not painted Blood Angels ... as i have i would like to be able to have a normal book and not the one i have to download and print out.

[Subject Keyword]

Wait! I've got it! Lets just separate Space Marines and Xenos! Everyone would be happy. The players who wanted could play "Big Burly Manly Men Beating Each Other Up and Stroking Their Over Compensatory Boom Sticks In a Totally Not Gay Manner 40,000", and the big boys could play interesting armies with interesting tactics than don't just involve ROLLING FREAKIN' 4 UPS AND SHOOTING DRIED UP OLD LASCANNONS! GAAAAAHHHHH! We should just make space marines larger and rubber so players won't hurt themselves when they smack them together and make explosion sounds. Meanwhile, DE would get a massive update, they would produce plastic kits for flayed ones and immortals, people would remember that Fantasy still exists, and I would get a free pony from Angelina Jolie. Space Wolves would get to play with the big kids because they now have a giant cyber wolf, and giant cyber wolves are awesome. Also, all Republicans' hair would be made of cotton candy.

[EmperorEternalXIX]

This forum has a lot of members that contribute nothing to the conversation.

[imperialsavant]

Except Sisters of Battle.:p Well, someone had to say it.

Well you "trumped" Melissa on that one, eldargirl! LoL:D

[Duke]

This forum has a lot of members that contribute nothing to the conversation.

So sad, but true. I think it goes without saying that I am very happy to see a BA codex. I had my hopes of what space hulk meant and it looks like I was heard! As far as other codifies go, there will always be ones on the bottom of the update cycle, so unless your still stubbornly hanging on to your main army of DE then you can't complain.

Duke

ps- it isn't threadjacking when everyone knows it is coming... Is like saying a bus is hijacked when the same old crazy bag lady gets on at the same stop evryday.

[Kloud]

What I would really like to see happen, is the removal of marked marines from the Chaos Marine Codex. Then make a "Forces of Chaos" 40K codex.

In this, Marked Marines would be even more powerfull than they are now, but would also be Elite choices. The Troops would be made up of Cultist. The cultist might be different depending which mark your army has. Defilers would have a place in this, and perhaps some Captured IG tanks. or maybe even some new vehicles all together.

In other words, I would like to see a Chaos Army more in line with the forces of Chaos that you read about in the 40K novels such as Guants Ghosts, or Ciaphais Caine novels.

This would create a non Imperial army that is also not dominated by 3+ saves.

[EmperorEternalXIX]

That's nice. What does it have to do with the Blood Angels, exactly?

[trjames]

That's nice. What does it have to do with the Blood Angels, exactly?

Blood for the Bloo...

Wait, wrong thread.

[fuzzbuket]

can blod angels go emo( dark angel) slit their wrists and do a blood sacrifice to summon khorne because blood angels need khorne flakes to start a murderous day:D (HERSEY)

back on topic it could be cool to have like hulk(boarding termies (aka flamers+chainfists) and a DC that have Uber stats (dont they become like sanglius) or chaplain scouts (and mech wings like their primarch= http://www.shop.microartstudio.com/iron-brotherhood-angel-p-179.html )

also just flicked through HH:collected visions their is a fire chariot on P181

Finaly Fix Tycho!

thanks

Fuzzbuket

P.s.subject keyword do you like smurfs/ wolfs and does little subject want to be a big boy?
p.p.s. whos DE

[Dosadi]

I’m not all that excited about these rumours as they pretty much just confirm what we’ve all come to expect from a codex release.

New plastic set? Every marine release has had one so far…so ya. We can speculate from the space hulk releaser that these will be ornate suits as the BA are long lived and known artisans it would also fit the fluff and give them their “unique” angle.

A “top notch” assault army? Assault Squads as troops? The current WD list gives you this option already and they’ve been an assault based army since 2nd Edition. I expect Furious Charge on Veteran Assault Squads. Perhaps the Rage ability on Death Company that don’t have a Chaplain leading them?

Options similar to Grey Hunters? Like most marine squads? This hardly seems like news. Now if BA assault squads got something like Inferno Pistols and hand flamers as options I’d get excited.

Vortex of Blood sounds cool, but it also seems very much like Canis’ ability. It would fit with the BA “vampiric” nature though. I hope we get some very cool non-Twilight vampire powers.

Mephiston should be bad ***. Bring back his “Gaze” as a natural ability and he should be S5 T5 base. This guy has conquered the Red Thirst and emerged as something beyond a normal marine Librarian now. I could easily see this guy being 250+points and able to take on Abbadon…maybe.

Dante should be an Eternal Warrior. He’s been Chapter Master for what, 600 years now? Other than that I think his current rules work really well. Maybe make the Death Mask not work on Fearless models. Why my Avatar should give a s*** about this guy’s mask is beyond me. The 12” preferred enemy bubble works well within the fluff and really gives armies led by Dante a punch in assault. Rites of Battle I see going away. Marines have a new Leadership system with all squads having a veteran with Ld 9. In 4th edition Rites of battle meant marines almost never fell back. I’m glad they took it away in favor of something more interesting (combat tactics, etc.). Although it might be replaced in Dante with a 12” Stubborn bubble; something to put him on par with the other Marine Chapter masters out there; WS7 anyone?

Tycho should have his Digital Weapons returned and Preferred Enemy: Orks. Something else to make him more than just a poorly armed Captain?;)

Carbullo is good the way he is. If Furious Charge becomes a standard ability on some units then the Grail needs to do something new…hrmmmm…+1 Attack (Chapter Relic)? I can see him becoming an upgrade character for an Honour Guard (command) squad instead of an independent character.

Lemartes needs a new model…period.:p

New Independent Characters? And I hope some squad upgrade characters. I really like this aspect of the newer codices.

TBH, I feel like these rumours are more speculation that hard facts. March does fit in with what I’ve heard. Afterall, we’ve got Tyranids and Beastmen between now and then. :cool:


Dosadi

[Duke]

I just really hope that Corbulo gets some kind of gear. I mean seriously, this guy carries the blood of Sanguinius and all they can give him is power armour and a chainsword/ bolt pistol, what the heck... No Artificer armour? no power weapon? "Sgt. Calistus here is your power weapon." "What about mine?" "Sorry Corbulo, you don't get a power weapon... You get a cup!" Its almost like they want this guy to die.

Duke

[Dosadi]

"Sgt. Calistus here is your power weapon." "What about mine?" "Sorry Corbulo, you don't get a power weapon... You get a cup!" Its almost like they want this guy to die.

LOL:)

The problem is they are restricted by the 2nd edition model. So unless they are going to make a new one which I don't think they need to do as the Jes' Blood Angel models are still some of the nicest marines out there. Dante, Corbullo, Mephiston and Tycho are great models and do not need a re-sculpt. I'd rather they put the resources into a new Lemartes (who was sculpted by Mike McVey; one of his first sculpts ever) and some new never before seen characters.

Do we think BA might get Ironclads? They should certainly have Venerables. Maybe give Furiosos a boost since they are currently outmatched by the Ironclads. 4 attacks? Preferred Enemy? Furious Charge giving them I5? Here’s my speculation; they are going to re-tool the old Dreadnought sprue to provide all available options in the one kit like the Ironclad. We will see the twin-linked heavy flamer added in as an option as it’s available in the Space Wolf codex along with extras armour bits and chapter specific bits like on the drop pod. A right arm DCCW for Furiosos would be an easy addition as well considering how much they were able to pack onto the Ironclad frames.


Dosadi

[Duke]

I kind of don't want to see an Ironcald for BA. I would like to see some crazyness for the Furioso, but I like the Ironclad being something specific to the C:SM. I think a Furiosos Death Co dread with Preferred enemy/ Furious charge is disgusting.

Roumors are that BA will get a "BAAL LandRaider." with 3 twinlinked Assault cannons.

[Cthulhu]

They could always give them the dream transport I've wanted for the World Eaters since 5th ed came out:

the open-topped Rhino!

[Melissia]

TalonZahn: You know, you could just see my name and not read the post below it if it pisses you off much. THere are people I do that to, but I suppsoe I'm more mature than you. Honestly, I'm deriving amusement out fo this, please, do keep going.

[Craz]

I think a Furiosos Death Co dread with Preferred enemy/ Furious charge is disgusting.

So disgusting, yet so right...

[Dosadi]

Roumors are that BA will get a "BAAL LandRaider." with 3 twinlinked Assault cannons.


We heard something very similar about the space wolves. An Assault Cannon Land raider to replace the leman russ. I'm sure BA will have access to the Redeemer and Crusader, but I don't see a BA only LR. Who knows? That's what makes speculation so much fun. ;)


Dosadi

[Red__Thirst]

I forsee the following for the BA codex.

Much of the current .PDF 'codex' is going to remain, if not as it is exactly, very similar. I don't have a problem with this for the most part, so long as they bring the Blood Angels into line rules-wise with all the present rules in the present marine codex. I'm excited to see what tweaks are done.

I forsee Veteran Assault Squads being very similar to the Vanguard squad, but perhaps with some BA flavor thrown in some how. Perhaps have purchaseable abilities such as furious charge, or an improved deepstrike (re-roll scatter, or re-roll failed dangerous terrain tests?) in additon to the charge after deep striking rule (To represent the Veteran Assault Marines tendancy to land in the midsts of their foes, death from above style.) I can forsee there being no sternguard esque unit in the codex as well. Characters will be brought into line with the going 'trend' of characters in the last few codexes. I forsee Mephiston will now, well and truely, become the Lord of Death in this codex. He will cost at least 275 points, but will be the sort of character that makes a greater daemon of khorne do a double-take. Crazy good stat-line, and psyker powers that boost his already prodigious combat prowess. Dante will become what I feel he should have been rules wise all along: A Legend. Other characters will get appropriate treatment too I'm hoping. We shall see.

It looks like, rules wise, it will be able to be built in such a way that it'll be a swift, and brutal close assault army. Of course a more traditional tactical squad centric build will also be very viable. I'll probably be pursuing this style of build, two to three tactical squads with a couple of assault squads to back them up, etc. But I've always liked the standard tactical squad as the core of my army.

Addition of new units such as the supposedly rumored 'Baal' pattern land raider. I can also forsee GW releasing an upgrade sprue for the Razorback to include all the new weapons options as part of the BA codex release, so one could make an assault cannon razorback without having to kitbash. Plastic Furioso, Baal Predator upgrade sprue, and of course a new BA specific bits and bobs sprue to make a tactical squad look *stunning*.

I can say that I cannot wait to see what's coming down the pipe. Keep the rumors coming, I'm very much looking forwards to seeing more.

Till then, take care.

-Red__Thirst-

[Duke]

A few things I would like to see.

- Death Company: No more forced death company... I want to see Death Company become something like they were in 3rd ed... However, I also don't want my tac squads getting eaten by the DC either. Maybe "Chaplain gets d3+3 death copany free and can add additional DC for 30 pts each." (just to be clear, I like the fluff of my squads getting taken by the DC, but in game it stinks.)

- Dante: ETERNAL WARRIOR, nuf said. Also, get rid of the -1 to WS thing and do something else with that... Stat modifiers are just old school. please don't get rid of Preffered enemy, in fact if I take Dante give it to my whole army... enough with the Venn Diagram!

- Make Rhinos and RAzorbacks fast vehicles.

- Give Assault marines assault weapons for gods sake, I would love to see an assault squad with M. gun, flamer, power wep.

-Tac Squads: I want this standard equipment. Krack grenades, frag grenades, bolt pistol, ccw, bolter. We are supposed to be close combat oriented...

Duke

[Red__Thirst]

-Tac Squads: I want this standard equipment. Krack grenades, frag grenades, bolt pistol, ccw, bolter. We are supposed to be close combat oriented...

Duke

I disagree with this.

Blood Angels are masters of close combat, but they still follow the codex astarties which dictates that tactical squads wield the bolt gun. I agree with having bolt pistols and both grenade types however.

I don't want tactical squads to have CCW's personally. Let them be distinct from other close combat oriented armies such as the Black Templars and the newly refurbished Spaces Wolves.

Just my opinion. We'll see what the powers that be decide to do in due course.

Take care,

-RT-

[Marshal2Crusaders]

Jesus, everyone wants their Chapter to have a ccw, bolt pistol, and bolter. Blood Angels ARE CODEX!!!! The Death Company is the only thing that is not codex. The Furioso and Baal are still dreadnoughts and Predators. The Biggest divergence is the whole 1st Company are Vanguard Veterans or Terminators, no sternguard.

[Duke]

Blood Angels aren't entirely codex... Assault squads as troops? For sure not codex. Your darn tootin that i want them to be CC oriented. I would like to be able to swap BP, CCW for my bolter in tac squads if I want... so, coo coo ka choo on you (how is that for mature?lol)

Duke

[Katie Drake]

Blood Angels aren't entirely codex... Assault squads as troops? For sure not codex. Your darn tootin that i want them to be CC oriented. I would like to be able to swap BP, CCW for my bolter in tac squads if I want... so, coo coo ka choo on you (how is that for mature?lol)

Duke

There's no such thing as a Troops choice in the Codex Astartes. He's talking about the tome that Gulliman wrote detailing how a Space Marine Chapter should be organized, fight, etc.

[Duke]

There's no such thing as a Troops choice in the Codex Astartes. He's talking about the tome that Gulliman wrote detailing how a Space Marine Chapter should be organized, fight, etc.

I know what he was talking about. My point still stands though, blood angels run their main fighting force (troops) as assault marines, gulliman would have been piased about that.

Duke

[Katie Drake]

I know what he was talking about. My point still stands though, blood angels run their main fighting force (troops) as assault marines, gulliman would have been piased about that.

Duke

No, that's not really true either. The Blood Angels just prefer close combat and tend to field more Assault Squads than most Chapters - the actual number of Assault Marines in the Chapter is the same as any Codex Chapter, Veterans of the 1st Company not included. Tactical Marines are still the core of the Blood Angel fighting force - it's just that we like our Assault Marines so we field them a lot.

[Red__Thirst]

I know what he was talking about. My point still stands though, blood angels run their main fighting force (troops) as assault marines, gulliman would have been piased about that.

Duke

Again, Duke, you're confused.

The Blood Angels, like any other chapter that follows the codex astarties, has two entire companies comprised entirely of assault marines (as well as two full companies of devastator marines as well). These are usually kept filled to replace casualties in the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th battle companies. However these companies can mobilize and fight as a company in-and-of themselves, all-be-it in a more limited fashion.

It wouldn't be unheard of for a the 6th or 7th company to partake of a campaign alongside their brothers in a more typical battle company in a particularly large campaign. It wouldn't upset Gulliman, far from it. That I feel is what allowing Blood Angels armies to field assault squads as troops represents, but as Miss Katie Drake has so eloquently pointed out, there are no more assault marines in the Blood Angels chapter than in any other (not considering the veteran assault squads, etc) However the combat doctrine favored by the Blood Angels commanders generally favors a rapid assault force, to include emphasis on jump packs, and souped up transports as well.

Just some clarification there.

Take it easy,

-RT-

[Dosadi]

I agree; I don’t think we will see much divergence from the WD list. Just some tweaks to bring things in-line with the 5th edition standards and perhaps one or two new goodies to make the BA stand out.
I don’t think we will be seeing Tactical marines with BP&CCW. And the option to swap for them would be covered by Assault Marines without jump packs.
I can see Veteran Assault squads getting Heroic Intervention with perhaps Furious Charge thrown in on top. However, Furious Charge is spectacularly powerful. I don’t relish the idea of flying berserkers.


Dosadi

[Duke]

Again, Duke, you're confused.

The Blood Angels, like any other chapter that follows the codex astarties, has two entire companies comprised entirely of assault marines (as well as two full companies of devastator marines as well). These are usually kept filled to replace casualties in the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th battle companies. However these companies can mobilize and fight as a company in-and-of themselves, all-be-it in a more limited fashion.

It wouldn't be unheard of for a the 6th or 7th company to partake of a campaign alongside their brothers in a more typical battle company in a particularly large campaign. It wouldn't upset Gulliman, far from it. That I feel is what allowing Blood Angels armies to field assault squads as troops represents, but as Miss Katie Drake has so eloquently pointed out, there are no more assault marines in the Blood Angels chapter than in any other (not considering the veteran assault squads, etc) However the combat doctrine favored by the Blood Angels commanders generally favors a rapid assault force, to include emphasis on jump packs, and souped up transports as well.

Just some clarification there.

Take it easy,

-RT-

You know, your right... I don't know why, but I had always thought that Blood Angels Assault Squads were not from the later companies, but just an alternative way for the tac marines to redeploy themselves...

As I looked at my Blood Angels Codex I remembered something that I want badly... Assault marines with the ability to remove jump packs and take a Razorback... I always have to change transports with my Tac Squads. I would also like to be able to give all of my honour guard power weapons if I want to (Even if it is expensive and doesn't make sense.)

Maybe for kicks and giggles, a heavy flamer attack bike anyone?

[Katie Drake]

Maybe for kicks and giggles, a heavy flamer attack bike anyone?

Heh, that'd be nice but then we'd have all the Codex: Vulkan and Friends players crying about how unfair it is. :p

[Duke]

That would be a change of pace... 'Divergent,' chapter making a 'codex,' chapter jealous. It would be a nice revenge for the TH/SS fiasco.

Duke

[steeldragon]

I've always thought 40K would benefit from a MRP rule... ¡t's called a Land Raider, Storm Shield, Machine Spirit, etc? then it follows the rules of the most recent printed 40K product... easy way to update the whole Imperium with only one codex and avoid having storm shields that work different if carried by red guys...

Andres

[Aldramelech]

My Storm sheild is better then yours nah nah nah nah!

GW really get up my nose when they do stuff like this..........

[Duke]

@ steeldragon: They did this in third ed. and it worked just fine, it also sold more marine codexes as well... not bad for GW, not bad for gamers.

GW: If it aint broken, FIX IT!

Duke

[Nabterayl]

They seem to be under the impression that we all will fix it anyway. As the Dark Angels FAQ puts it, if somebody asks whether they can use the most recent version of a piece of wargear, you should say yes, and you're a terrible person if you say no (my paraphrase).

Now if only they were right ...

[Dosadi]

Exactly! I’ve never had a problem with someone using the Storm Shield and apothecary from C:SM in their DA army. I even let my opponent use them in a tournament after they game had already began. See, I’m that nice a guy!:D

If people would just treat the game as a game and not as some sort of contest of superiority as I see some people conduct themselves (we all know who they are in our LGS) then we’d all complain less about how our codex hasn’t been updated in a decade or how they nerfed my favorite unit or how codex creep has ruined the hobby forever.

Back on topic, I was looking at the WD BA list last night and was impressed by all the options the Honour Guard and Veteran Assault marines get. I’m thinking the best way to bring up the “space wolf” standard would be to bring back the veteran abilities. After all, BA are the longest lived of the marines so there is some logic in having “Veterans of a thousand campaigns” rules. I still think flying berserkers is a scary prospect though.:eek: But things like Tank Hunters, Skilled Riders(Jumpers?) would make sense for these guys who are potentially quite a bit older than their counterparts in other chapters.


Dosadi

[ggg]

Exactly! I’ve never had a problem with someone using the Storm Shield and apothecary from C:SM in their DA army. I even let my opponent use them in a tournament after they game had already began. See, I’m that nice a guy!:D

Dosadi

A rare example of a gentleman. Next time I play a DA player (becomming rarer these days) I will take the same approach. We are all fellow gamers and we all know what the problems are. Fortunatley, we have the power to resolve them, quickly, simply and easily.

[Duke]

@Dosadi: I would love to see the veteran ablilties come back... VAS with 2 melta guns, a combi melta and tank hunters deep striking FTW, lol.

Also, I think I said this before but I would like to see the 12" bubble of Dante go away and simply make him give the whole army pref. enemy (obivously he would be more expensive.)

Duke

[StarWarsDoug]

@Dosadi: I would love to see the veteran ablilties come back... VAS with 2 melta guns, a combi melta and tank hunters deep striking FTW, lol.

Also, I think I said this before but I would like to see the 12" bubble of Dante go away and simply make him give the whole army pref. enemy (obivously he would be more expensive.)

Duke

And they can shoot lightning out his fingers like the Emperor, and fly like superman, and have claws like wolverine....

Just kidding with you...:O

[Duke]

And they can shoot lightning out his fingers like the Emperor, and fly like superman, and have claws like wolverine....

Just kidding with you...:O

lol, this can be done... Simply give him lightning claws. ;)

Duke

[Red__Thirst]

I meant to mention this in one of my previous posts but I for one would *love* to see sanguiniary high priests make a return as a viable HQ option, rather than an honor guard/command squad upgrade as in other marine chapters.

That was one of a very few things that dissapointed me about the most recent .pdf codex that came out. I know not everyone ran one, but I have a very nice plastic SHP with a jump pack conversion I'd like to use again some day as more than an Honor Guard upgrade.

Just a blissful wish on my part.

As for Dante and his 12" bubble, I forsee Dante getting a complete overhaul on rules, so I won't speculate on that but I do hope he's given Eternal Warrior, as he above all other chapter masters deserves it! (In my ever-so-humble opinon) I expect he's given the same treatment as Logan Grimnar to be perfectly honest. His equipment will remain the same I imagine.

Artificer armor
Iron Halo
Death Mask of Sanguinius (Would love to see this make an enemy re-roll any successful morale checks when in close assault with Dante. I think that would be pretty balanced, but represent the Death Mask well.)
Perdition Pistol (So long as this keeps the profile of a standard melta-gun, I'm happy)
Jump Pack
Frag & Krak Grenades
Master Crafted Power Weapon, the axe of Mortalis(?)... (I would like to see this get *something* nifty about it, even something basic like +1 strength. I'll take it as a standard power weapon though.)

Just my thoughts on that.

Take care,

-RT-

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

Though i have been collecting Sisters of Battle since GW first brought to our stores so many moons ago, the first SM codex i bought was the Angels of Death.
Im fond of the history and rules and colourful uniqueness of both the DA and BA. I think like many others that the DA got a bum rap by GW over there codex and then bringing a better (some would say) SM codex out with new toys, units and rules.
BA make it challanging and i have to say i think they are a much more enjoyable army in the SM range than some like Black Templars, Ultramarines and even Space Puppies.

But i think as we all know GW is a business first and formost so they go with what makes money and that is sad to say is SM armies. I agree with Melissia in that i think we are getting a little tired of "oh look another SM army for all the youngens to buy".
Well TalonZahn, if you dont like critisism dont read someone's post tht simple.
I play Sisters of Battle and were i am i have the largest army of that type here, rivalling well past most SM armies, i love the fluff, miniatures, history and the challange to play them against 5th ed armies and still win.
GW needs to catch up all the older codexs. And guess what sells for GW???
Any new army with sparkling new miniatures not just SM.
New players want the new army, simple, i bet that if GW released SoB so many more players would buy them all over the world. And yes they would be a rival buy for other armies when and if they get rightly updated to match.
BTW this is my forst time her so " hi Mate" from Australia from me :)

[Aldramelech]

Sheila's of Battle....... Great:rolleyes:

[RocketRollRebel]

@Dosadi: I would love to see the veteran ablilties come back... VAS with 2 melta guns, a combi melta and tank hunters deep striking FTW, lol.

Also, I think I said this before but I would like to see the 12" bubble of Dante go away and simply make him give the whole army pref. enemy (obivously he would be more expensive.)

Duke

I'm very happy with how Dante works at the moment but I would like our non SC's get a bit of a bump so that I don't feel compelled to take Dante and Corbs in every competative BA list.

Our Librarians need jump packs and some fun fighty killy CC powers.

Drop pod assault and SM priced pods would be boss

[Duke]

@red thirst- I like your ideas, I have a sad feeling that SHP won't be an hq choice, though I would love to see it again.

As far as Dante and his gear I think almost all of us can agree that he needs eternal warrior more than any chapter master. I also would like to see his wargear updated a bit, it would be cool if his gear reflected the epic poem "inferno" by Dante a little bit more. Perhaps the axe could reroll misses or hits... (wishfully thinking?)

Duke (captured the flag)


Duke

[mysterex]

It seems a lot of the pro Blood Angels commentary is more or less that they want a codex that is just like the SM one (i.e. update with the same equipment/ new units) plus some extra stuff. But this will still be a codex that will be substancially the same as the SM one as opposed to say comparing nids to guard.

Personally I'd rather see GW put their effort into something a little more different like dark eldar or the inquisition or necrons.

[Bigred]

We should also remember the set of Blood Angel Apocalypse sheets they released last year. Now obviously much Apocalypse stuff wont translate directly into the standard tabletop game, but the running theme seemed to be speed.

I recall stripped down landraiders that were fast transports, and special rules for assaulting out of t-hawks directly into assault.

I would take stuff like this in mind not as an expecttation for rules, but to get an idea of where the Design Studio's head is in relation to the chapter.

In general I would expect the Blood Angels to be a FAST assault force instead of a ferocious-tricksy one like we see with the Wolves.

[Duke]

It seems a lot of the pro Blood Angels commentary is more or less that they want a codex that is just like the SM one (i.e. update with the same equipment/ new units) plus some extra stuff. But this will still be a codex that will be substancially the same as the SM one as opposed to say comparing nids to guard.

Personally I'd rather see GW put their effort into something a little more different like dark eldar or the inquisition or necrons.

That is the problem with Blood Angels is that they are pretty much a codex chapter... hence us wanting the core of the 'dex to be like C:SM. Obviusly we want some BLood Angel-esq stuff added/ upgraded, but who wouldn't?

Obviously I am very happy to get a new dex for my Angels, DE and the rest can wait, cause I'm selfish! lol.

For every happy person that exists about a new codex there are about 5 whiners, we all get to shuffle roles every so often... It never changes.

Duke

[Duke]

We should also remember the set of Blood Angel Apocalypse sheets they released last year. Now obviously much Apocalypse stuff wont translate directly into the standard tabletop game, but the running theme seemed to be speed.

I recall stripped down landraiders that were fast transports, and special rules for assaulting out of t-hawks directly into assault.

I would take stuff like this in mind not as an expecttation for rules, but to get an idea of where the Design Studio's head is in relation to the chapter.

In general I would expect the Blood Angels to be a FAST assault force instead of a ferocious-tricksy one like we see with the Wolves.


Bigred, the more I thought about this the more it
made sense... I agree that the direction they take won't be close-combat killy. But it will be more like fast assault, I could see some mean fast assault tricks like first turn charges, or maybe something nasty like assault launchers on rhinos, fast assault makes tons of sense.

Duke

[HsojVvad]

I found this out on Warseer

Originally Posted by Raibaru
So was this the other "half" of the Marine update mentioned in the BA thread?
Harry "No. I was talking about something else.

I meant that Blood Angels were only half the Space Marines we were going to see next year."

So I guess there will be anthour SM release sometime next year, most likely not at the same time as BA. So I guess this story has come to a close for now. No dual SM release with the DA.

But then again, if next year is suppose to be the year of Fanatasy, it could be a dual release so everything else can be Fantasy then. Get 40K out of the way and then Fantasy. I don't think that is the case though.

So we can take it, the other half of the story is not, BA releated mini's but anthour SM chapter at a later date.

[Katie Drake]

So... Black Templars then, I suppose. I know that Dark Angel players badly want a new book and I feel for them, but it doesn't look likely based on these new rumors.

Ah well. Makes sense. Templars are another easy fix, just like the Tyranids. Hopefully this means that by the time they're done the Black Templars all the easy fixes will be done, which means we'll get to see some of the races that are in most need of new books all fixed up.

[MarshalAdamar]

I am at once elated and terrified to have my BT codex redone.

Judging by the wolves’ dex, I'm more elated then terrified.

I just hope that we get the twin CCW dread that has taunted Marshals from the pages of our holy tome since the 4th edition codex was released!

[Marshal2Crusaders]

Alessio said Templats and Dark Angels are not even on the table at GDI so my guess is a Legion Codex, mire than likely World Eaters first.

[Katie Drake]

Alessio said Templats and Dark Angels are not even on the table at GDI so my guess is a Legion Codex, mire than likely World Eaters first.


Okay, so not Templars or Dark Angels. How the heck did you make the leap to Chaos Legions, though? What is it that makes you think of Chaos and not another race?

[MarshalAdamar]

"The GD Spain presentation was given by Robin Cruddace...Cruddace was asked about the Space Wolves, and while not giving out a launch date, he did confirm the Studio was working on not only the Wolves, but the Blood Angels and Black Templars."

I think they're just keeping us guessing.

I'm not too worried one way or another, right now Marshal2Crusaders we get the best smoke launchers in the game! So good that we stick our fingers in the collective eyes of melta spammers everywhere!

I like our codex, drop pods that can fire when the land

OH the joy of three Drop pods landing and firing their death wind launchers into the Nid hordes!

So we're sitting pretty for now!

[HsojVvad]

Okay, so not Templars or Dark Angels. How the heck did you make the leap to Chaos Legions, though? What is it that makes you think of Chaos and not another race?

Well by going by the wil you cry or not speach, it looks like no BT or DA. What other SM is it going to be? Even Harry admitted that he ment anthour SM chapter as the "other half" of his speach.

So what other SM do we have left then? Inquisitors seemed like a no, BT and DA seem like a no now, so who else?

but then someone brought up that the IG and Tyranid writer Cruddence I believe, said when he was at GD Spain, that SW would be released, and BA and BT were being worked on as well.

Maybe the speach about crying for BT is just to throw us off maybe? Remeber it's suppose to be a Fantasy year, but if you thought SM were being brought out, we have seen nothing yet next year, as was said form various people. (sorry forgot who said what)

[Brother Hespithe]

Must be an independent Sallies dex, lol.

[MaidenManiac]

...I meant that Blood Angels were only half the Space Marines we were going to see next year."...


...Alessio said Templats and Dark Angels are not even on the table at GDI so my guess is a Legion Codex, mire than likely World Eaters first...


...So what other SM do we have left then? Inquisitors seemed like a no, BT and DA seem like a no now, so who else?...

A CSM Legion Codex would be immensely appreciated and would really put some truth into the "We will make CSM Legion Codices" talk, that still only looks like desperate damage control. World Eaters or Death Guard would most likely be the first one yea, the Designstudio really likes skulls and rot more then boobs and magic for some reason:eek:

This would probably also bring the FW Daemonengines of those two gods more into the real 40k game, and at least give an inch of hope to all God-specific army players that codex "chaos pirates in power armour" will be a lost memory in the future:cool:

[Dosadi]

What if it’s not a Chaos Legions codex, but is actually the 5th edition Chaos Space Marine codex? The current one is not that old I know, but there has been considerable backlash against it and perhaps GW is listening? Perhaps they are feeling it in the wallet as sales of Chaos Marines are not where they feel they should be?
I’ve stated my feeling on “Legion” codices in the past and I’m not really against the idea, but really feel they need to be divergent enough from each other (and C:CSM)to warrant separate books. A single volume with all the traitor legions getting a special character the “mod” the army list in some way would be a simpler solution and allow the mono-god people to have their Legion.


and at least give an inch of hope to all God-specific army players that codex "chaos pirates in power armour" will be a lost memory in the future:cool:

Hey, my "chaos pirates in power armour" resent that remark! I've been waiting form Codex: Red Corsairs for years and now that I have it; you wanna make it a "lost memory"? You better hope you never find yourself in the Maelstrom buddy! :p


Bigred, the more I thought about this the more it
made sense... I agree that the direction they take won't be close-combat killy. But it will be more like fast assault, I could see some mean fast assault tricks like first turn charges, or maybe something nasty like assault launchers on rhinos, fast assault makes tons of sense.


Back on topic; It’s sounding like May will be the month for BA!

Fast Assault? Well, they've pretty much achieved this with the over-charged engines rules making BA Rhinos Fast. Stripped down Land Raiders? Like, take the TL-lascannons off and make it Fast as well? Would that not anger the machine spirit within? I mean Land Raiders already get the benefits of being Fast with the POTMS so I’d be very interested in seeing what “stripped down means. I don’t re-call those Data Sheets; if someone can point me to a source?

I wouldn’t be surprised to see Fleet in the codex somewhere, but isn’t that sort of rubbing the Raven Guard’s rhubarb?


Dosadi

[DarkLink]

I haven't heard any "considerable backlash" against the vanilla marine 'dex. Some people have complained that there are too many Imperial 'dexs being released back to back, but overall, the vanilla marine 'dex has been well accepted.

Now, on the other hand, if they were to make a new vanilla marine 'dex, what 9-10 months after the last one, THAT would get a considerable backlash from the community.







Either way, I'm just waiting for a new Grey Knight codex:(.



EDIT: Ooops, misread Dosadi's post and thought he was talking about Loyalist Marines, not Chaos ones. Heh, ummm, I'll start paying attention now.

[EmperorEternalXIX]

Must be an independent Sallies dex, lol. We already have that!

[Katie Drake]

We already have that!

I couldn't help but giggle a bit at this because it's so true. :p Codex: Vulkan and Friends!

[LordofDiscipline]

:p hahahaha, vulkan and friends is lovely, Yea i do recall those datafaxes for the fast land raiders. The fluff behind it was that by using thunder hawk transporters, the chapter could strike immediately against speed freak columns by deploying fast predators and land raiders full of tac marines from tree top height. :D so manly it has to be painted red.

[Lerra]

Is it possible that the "other half" is the Raven Guard minidex from Forgeworld?

[psyscowasp]

No way we're that lucky. Next thing you tell me there'll be Raven Guard DECALS in boxes.

[Duke]

Back on topic:

What does everyone think about VAS getting 'heroic intervention,'? And if they did would you even still use them with jump packs? As it is right now my VAS run in a rhino, I don't think I will run them with jump packs unless they can reroll scatter on Deep Striking... I used to love my 2 M. gun and 1 Combi melta VAS squad deepstirking behined enemy lines.


Duke

[Dosadi]

Back on topic:

What does everyone think about VAS getting 'heroic intervention,'? And if they did would you even still use them with jump packs? As it is right now my VAS run in a rhino, I don't think I will run them with jump packs unless they can reroll scatter on Deep Striking... I used to love my 2 M. gun and 1 Combi melta VAS squad deepstirking behined enemy lines.


I think they may get something like Heroic Intervention. However, I’d like to see them come up with something more unique for the VAS so they aren’t just a clone of the Vanguard Vets.
Perhaps the Blood Angels will get a “Thunderhawk Assault” rule similar to the drop pod rule where half of your Deep Strikers arrive Turn One as they drop from low flying Thawks. Maybe this will even allow them to drop vehicles? Skilled Rider (Jumper) on the VAS would be good.


Dosadi

[Bigred]

OK guys,

Here is the Fast Armored Strike Force for the Blood Angels that many forgot about from a year or so ago. In partular, read the fluff and hints about how this strike force has since influenced Blood Angel vehicle design... Hint,hint perhaps...

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2440054_Space_Marines_Datasheet_-_Lucifer_Armoured_Force.pdf

@Dosadi
I think one of the interesting features of the armored force is it is described as being deployed by Thunderhawk DIRECTLY into battle (represented by deepstriking). If you want a concrete example of blitzkreig warfare and innovative Blood Angel combat doctrine, there it is in black and white.

[Duke]

After looking at that data sheet again I can't help but think how disgusting it would be to have Blood Angels transports enter the battle Via Deep Strike... Entering play like a drop pod and then moving like a fast transport would be sickening.

Im imagining deep striking VAS who assault right after deep striking as well as deep striking transports... This would really represent a "fast assault force,"

The only problem is that now the Eldar are the slow ones. lol

Duke

[DarkLink]

Back on topic:

What does everyone think about VAS getting 'heroic intervention,'? And if they did would you even still use them with jump packs? As it is right now my VAS run in a rhino, I don't think I will run them with jump packs unless they can reroll scatter on Deep Striking... I used to love my 2 M. gun and 1 Combi melta VAS squad deepstirking behined enemy lines.


Duke

I don't think the odds of them getting Heroic Intervention AND reroll of the scatter dice are very good.

[Duke]

I don't think the odds of them getting Heroic Intervention AND reroll of the scatter dice are very good.

Yes, but I have two points:
1. The odds of heroic intervention being invented at all was low (One would have thought)
2. I am Extremely biased, so I allowed to talk about the smallest of odds as if it was a certainty... It's like a rule. ;)


Duke (mi polabra es la ley)

[AirHorse]

I still wish vet assault squads had got jumppack assault, charge in the movement phase using your jumppack move instead(and take a dangerous terrain test too perhaps since bodies count :P) but gain furious charge. Would have been so much cooler and useful :(

[Duke]

I still wish vet assault squads had got jumppack assault, charge in the movement phase using your jumppack move instead(and take a dangerous terrain test too perhaps since bodies count :P) but gain furious charge. Would have been so much cooler and useful :(

Are you saying this: 12" jump pack move, 12" assault? but with a dangerous terrain test when assaulting.

Duke

[Red__Thirst]

OK guys,

Here is the Fast Armored Strike Force for the Blood Angels that many forgot about from a year or so ago. In partular, read the fluff and hints about how this strike force has since influenced Blood Angel vehicle design... Hint,hint perhaps...

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2440054_Space_Marines_Datasheet_-_Lucifer_Armoured_Force.pdf

@Dosadi
I think one of the interesting features of the armored force is it is described as being deployed by Thunderhawk DIRECTLY into battle (represented by deepstriking). If you want a concrete example of blitzkreig warfare and innovative Blood Angel combat doctrine, there it is in black and white.

SAVED!

Thanks Bigred, appreciate the link. That's a pretty cool datasheet.

As for the 12" assault but with a dangerous terrain test, I'd rather see them get fleet instead honestly. Just my two copper coins there. :)

Take care everyone,

-RT-

[yergerjo]

:p hahahaha, vulkan and friends is lovely, Yea i do recall those datafaxes for the fast land raiders. The fluff behind it was that by using thunder hawk transporters, the chapter could strike immediately against speed freak columns by deploying fast predators and land raiders full of tac marines from tree top height. :D so manly it has to be painted red.

Blood Angels: Orks in Power Armor!

[Red__Thirst]

Things I anticipate, based on current lines of thinking.

A.) Fast Vehicles are going to be more prevelant.
1.) By way of current 'overcharged engine' built in upgrades that work if you roll a
4+ on a D6.
2.) Optional upgrade like extra armor, gives the vehicle a 4+ 'counts as fast' for XX points.

B.) Characters are going to be treated more like the present space marine codex.
1.) Librarians and Chaplains will have fewer wounds, lowered Initiative, same wargear
options as the present codex with *maybe* some neat BA only trinket wargear thrown
in (Death Mask option for Chaplains, etc)
2.) Hopefully a return of the Sanguiniary High Priest. Doubtful but I'm staying hopeful.
3.) Captain will become the 'default choice' for better stats and wargear options.

C.) Special Character Additions and Revamps
1.) As much as I want new character models, I don't forsee this happening except for the
new characters.
2.) New updated rules for all the major characters, and some new, nifty psyker powers
(Really looking forwards to seeing these.. 'Vortex of Blood' looks particuarly nifty.)

D.) Special Units: Death Company, Veteran Assault Squads, Furiosos, Baal Predator
1.) I forsee the vehicles being (finally) redone in full plastic kits.
2.) VAS will get 'something cool', be it the Vanguard Heroic Intervention, or some other
form of special rule like rerolling scatter on Deep Strike. Death Company will probably
remain as they presently are in the .PDF 'Codex'.
3.) New Stuff in the form of a Land Raider that is "BA Only", in addition to the new special
characters.. I don't expect this to be honest, but I've been wrong before.

E.) New Army Wide Special Rules. These are some that I've come up with.
1.) These have me scratching my head. I forsee some kind of rule that lets the BA 'Strike
hard and fast' like no other army can. Perhaps army wide outflank like the white scars?
Or perhaps a bonus to the 'drop pod assault'.. or maybe just an innate bonus to the
reserve rolls for being adept at rapid assault style operations?
2.) "Thunder Hawk Assault" - All Blood Angels models that enter play via Deep Strike may
opt to re-roll the scatter dice when landing. Blood Angel Assault Marines are extremely
adept at swooping down upon their foes from above and have trained to land in
treacherous terrain after leaping from an overflying thunderhawk transport. This rule
does not confer to drop pods, as these transports have built in inertial dampeners to
guide their passengers to the ground safely!
3.) "First Strike" - Blood Angels excell at close assault, and relish the throng of melee
combat more than any other chapter. Assault Marines (and Veteran Assault
Marines) may attempt to pass an initiative test at the beginning of the shooting phase
in lieu of shooting. If this test is scuccessful the squad and any accompanying
independant characters gain the 'fleet' universal special rule. If this test is failed the
squad may not shoot but may run, or charge as normal if able.
Death Company Marines may also attempt to pass an initiative test, but as these
marines are striken with the Black Rage, their movements are quickened and as such
subtract -1 to their roll when making the initiative test.

(Initiative tests, if memory serves, require you to roll equal to or under your initiative when you make them.)

Just some of my thoughts/wishful thinking. More later I'm sure. Till then, take care everyone.

-Red__Thirst-

[Duke]

The more I think about it the more I feel the following:

- Vehicles becoming fast (hello BAAL Rhino).
- Assault Marines getting assault weapons (My hope is the ability to take 2 assault weapons in a 10 man squad)
- Corbulo gives the army Furious charge.
- Dante is simply a combat monster who gives his unit preffered enemy, eternal warrior. (and he can finally take off his pack!)
- VAS get heroic intervention and become Vanguard cut and paste.
- I would like to see chaplains coming with 'd3+3,' death company like in third ed. instead of forced paying.

Duke

[MarshalAdamar]

I think the ability to deep strike and assault is very powerful, and to give it to an assault based army cart blanch would be a mistake.

I mean think about being able to deploy my Land Raider Crusaders via deep strike full of assault marines!

I think be so broken that the game would not recover (ever). With assault being the end all be all of the game now, if you can get stuck in with some good assault troops you can make a mess of most armies. But to put a land raider in the back field and drop rhinos on top of objectives.

Ouch, I'm not sure how that would work out. Can you imagine what you could do to guard or other static armies?

[AirHorse]

Most of those 'feelings' are pretty decent duke and it would be good to see that happen, perhaps with the exception of the fast vehicles as I think that could be a bit too much given the blood angels are likely to get some special rules to properly seperate them from codex space marines.

Perhaps they could do the death company in a similar sort of way to the new wolf guard? If you have a chaplain then for each tactical, assault or devastator squad with a sergeant(which should be them all unless something weird happens :P) you can choose to have the sergeant join the chaplain as death company.

I really like the idea behind the death company but I feel that the utter randomness behind it is a bit out of place given how big an impact it can have on your army as a whole so to make it a choice, although unfluffy(its not too far off though) it gives you another option to use and makes the army much more interesting to use if you ask me.

Also with regards to what I said about vanguard veterans making a jumppack assault I meant to have them actually assault using their normal 12" jumppack movement, in the movement phase, to gain the benefits. The balancing being they cant assault as far(they could if they wanted to just without the special rule) and that you cant soften up a unit with shooting beforehand(not that you always want to :P). I added the part about possible dangerous terrain test just as a consideration for balance if it was a bit too much, but I dont think it would be considering it drops your assault range by a good 6".

[fuzzbuket]

Hey heres an idea!

look at Ba 1/2 rumors

look at new Da fortress

look at Ba 1/2 rumors

repeat as nescessary

ta-da

a) some conversions
B) whos the other half of the Ba dex :D

Fuzzbuket

p.s. we need moriar


p.p.s. why ar blackreach-smurfs manning the angels fortress!!!!:mad:

[Duke]

Hey heres an idea!

look at Ba 1/2 rumors

look at new Da fortress

look at Ba 1/2 rumors

repeat as nescessary

ta-da

a) some conversions
B) whos the other half of the Ba dex :D

Fuzzbuket

p.s. we need moriar


p.p.s. why ar blackreach-smurfs manning the angels fortress!!!!:mad:


Sorry fuzz, but I didn't understand that... I got the P.S. and the PPS, but the main body went over my head.

[Loken]

I used to love my Furious Charging BA. But I really feel they neutered them in the virtual codex. I look forward to maybe bringing them back with a new Codex.

Alec

[Duke]

I would love furious charge for the whole codex, sadly I think that Corbulo will 'unlock,' that trait. (of course that is just my own thoughts.)

duke

[DarkLink]

Sorry fuzz, but I didn't understand that... I got the P.S. and the PPS, but the main body went over my head.

...yeah, that went over my head, too.




Hopefully, if they make Vet assault squads like Vanguard, they'll be a little bit cheaper. Vanguard are somewhat overpriced as it is. Just don't make them too cheap, though.

[Katie Drake]

...yeah, that went over my head, too.

Yeah, same here. Might have something to do with the lack of any quality in his typing.

*hint, hint*


Hopefully, if they make Vet assault squads like Vanguard, they'll be a little bit cheaper. Vanguard are somewhat overpriced as it is. Just don't make them too cheap, though.

I'm kinda hoping they'll leave Veteran Assaulters as they are now. I think they're the best designed unit in the entire Codex. They're perfectly priced and have excellent options.

[Duke]

If I had my way I would change them (VAS) in subtle ways...
- If they take off their jump packs then allow them to take a Razorback or a Rhino
- If the entire codex doesn't get furious charge then consider giving it to them for an increase in points.

Duke

[DarkLink]

Yeah, same here. Might have something to do with the lack of any quality in his typing.

*hint, hint*




Right. If I may make a suggestion, I recently started using Google Chrome, and it seems to have a built in spell-check.

[Katie Drake]

Right. If I may make a suggestion, I recently started using Google Chrome, and it seems to have a built in spell-check.

So does Firefox. *thumbs up*

[Aldramelech]

Right. If I may make a suggestion, I recently started using Google Chrome, and it seems to have a built in spell-check.

I think he's using Text speak.

(Note to Americans and other rare species: British teenagers have developed a whole new language to use on their moblie phones to confuse/irritate/annoy old (anyone over 25!) people.)

[Wolfshade]

I think I understand part of it and I shall give my interpretation:

Fellow forum members, remember well the rumours regarding the Blood Angel codex only being "half the story", then look at new fortress, behold! It is a Dark Angels release. From this I volunteer that the Dark Angels will be the other "half" of the release.

Plus you have to say the bits in italics in a toff accent for the full effect, think early BBC public broadcasts.

Are there any confirmed information regarding this new dex or is it all smoke and mirrors?

[Brass Scorpion]

I know that I have had a conversation with someone at GW that well confirms that Blood Angels are coming soon. No specifics associated with it yet, but it is coming in 2010.

[Parcival]

I know that I have had a conversation with someone at GW that well confirms that Blood Angels are coming soon. No specifics associated with it yet, but it is coming in 2010.

Come on, Brass Scorpion, I know you know more than that. ;)



I'm kinda hoping they'll leave Veteran Assaulters as they are now. I think they're the best designed unit in the entire Codex. They're perfectly priced and have excellent options.

Agreed. I modeled two VAS with doublefist, though, because I think it really fits the Blood Angels fluff. It would be cool if this legally became an equipment option with the new Codex.

[Brass Scorpion]

Come on, Brass Scorpion, I know you know more than that.
There have been times I've known more than I could tell, but I'm afraid this time I really have given up everything I know, which isn't much at all as you can see. The discussion I had with an enthusiastic staffer clearly showed that Blood Angels are imminent, but no details were discussed at all. If I get something down the road I can share without getting someone in hot water, I will. Thanks.

[Duke]

perhaps we could use some interrogation techniques on these staffers? anyone have an oversized light bulb?

Duke

[Purple]

given the codex isnt out for at least 3 months i doubt that you'll even here a peep from anybody. BA rumours are pretty dead in the water at ths point in time, Move on, nothing to see here

[Levitas]

I heard from a shirt there is a renegade outcast vampire captain! Hope so.

[Red__Thirst]

I'd be very surprised if they incorperated a renegade *anything* into the BA codex..

Not saying they won't, but DA have always been the chapter renound for having 'renegade' elements in it, the Fallen, Cypher, etc etc etc...

Blood Angels in recent (and 'ok' in my opinion*) black library publications have started to seemingly 'go astray' on some points, but if any of that sort of thing makes it into the new codex? Who knows.

* I have ready both of the "Encarmine" novels as well as the newest book "Red Fury" and own all three novels. They were decent books and did a fair job of representing the chapter. Some of the elemetns they introduced were cool, like describing the tomb of sanguinius, the (very very cool) spear of telestro.. and also exploring the personalites of the classic characters such as Dante and Mephiston, but I was left with an overall feeling of being underwhelmed by the books. They were good, just not great.. if that makes sense.

Just my thoughts. I guess we'll get some real rumors and such after the first of the year (I hope)

Take care,

-Red__Thirst-

[RocketRollRebel]

I heard from a shirt there is a renegade outcast vampire captain! Hope so.

I hope not. the BA are a very loyal chapter. We just have daddy issues thats all.

[Andrey4]

Hey there guys, im a BA player from East Europe, Ukraine. Well its not a best post to say hi, but ...

Well i post cause i wanted to write my wish - Captain Leonatos. He can have a Blade Encarmine, The Sword of Belarus. " Counts as relic blade, in addition Leonatos gains as much addittional attack as much models in contact with him, enemy nor friendly, this shows like he is basing his powers by his battle brothers" or something like this.

Sorry for me bad english.

[Levitas]

Hey there guys, im a BA player from East Europe, Ukraine. Well its not a best post to say hi, but ...

Well i post cause i wanted to write my wish - Captain Leonatos. He can have a Blade Encarmine, The Sword of Belarus. " Counts as relic blade, in addition Leonatos gains as much addittional attack as much models in contact with him, enemy nor friendly, this shows like he is basing his powers by his battle brothers" or something like this.

Sorry for me bad english.

I think you will see good ol leonatus, probably at the expense of Captain Tycho. Whose very name seems to bring a grimace to the most devout of BA players.

I like your Leonatos ideas, would be good to see. I hope they do mix it up, other wise we will just see Dante and Corbulo again in every decent line up.

[Duke]

I think you will see good ol leonatus, probably at the expense of Captain Tycho. Whose very name seems to bring a grimace to the most devout of BA players.

I like your Leonatos ideas, would be good to see. I hope they do mix it up, other wise we will just see Dante and Corbulo again in every decent line up.

I honestly think that both dante and Corbulo will be changed... I am pretty sure they won't force the "Venn Diagram of death." on us again.


Duke

[Andrey4]

Also i honestly want death company to be not so important. Now we must take death company because of those 30 pts. at every squad. The other point of view - to give them power weapons and power fists (old death company models have them).

[pgarfunkle]

I'd like to see the following in a new Blood Angels Codex

1) Some equipment updates, bringing wargear into line with new marine codex. Although there could be some differences explained away as differences between chapters forges.

2) Leonartes included in the codex.

3) Dante given Eternal warrior, he has to have survived 1,100 + years somehow.

4) Rules for both standard Tycho and Death company Tycho might be fun.

5) Some rules based on the longevity and artisan side of the Blood Angels fluff

6) The landspeeder storm in the codex, because I love the model.

7) Leave over-charged engines and the death company mainly as they are.

and finally its not in the codex but I'd like to see some new models for our characters and hope that the rumours of an upgrade sprue are true.

[Liquidice]

I think that some things need to be changed to the BA.
1.... Tycho is supposed to be dead

2. Fluff wise death company should be alot tougher, in the book they keep coming even after thier legs get shot off. I say give them toughness 5 and keep the rest the same.

3. Give Dante eternal warrior.

4. I say either give mephiston more powers or decrease his points.

5. You should be able to buy a chaplian for the death company at no cost to HQ choice.

6. This is one that may be kind of ratical, but it seems strong fluff wise. Give a real bonus for their gene seed mutation. Red thirst should be an ability and this is how i would do it. "When charging into combat a unit with the red thirst roles a d6; on 3+ the unit gains the furious charge rule for that turn" This rule would justify the over priced unit cost.

7. Morleo Moriar.....custom death company model hq choice...make him badass all i can say

8. Throw in the ironclad, the land raider variants, storm shields, etc.

[steeldragon]

mmm... I believe Eldrad is dead too and it appears on the codex anyway, remember that the 40K timeline is stuck in the same period and is not advancing.

The reason Death Company has FNP is 'cause they are tougher.

Dante + Eternal Warrior sounds reasonable

Hope you mean that a Death Company chaplain should not take a FOC HQ slot

I do not think units are overpriced, they just have the Death company miniature added to their values.

Andres

[Havik110]

I honestly think that both dante and Corbulo will be changed... I am pretty sure they won't force the "Venn Diagram of death." on us again.


Duke

I personally think that Daunte should command such loyalty that he gives all the benefits of your "Venn Diagram of death" and give Corbs another role. He can heal d6 wounds a turn with his Exsanguinator...dont know what you would do with his grail.




8. Throw in the ironclad, the land raider variants, storm shields, etc.

I dont want normal marines getting the baal predator so why should we get everything they get?

there has to be some separation. I can see a higher capacity crusader that the smurfs have but other than that if you want SH TH Termies then play salamanders...

I dont get why everything has to be equal

[Lerra]

I am guessing (hoping) that the new SM codices have their terminators based on the SW terminators instead of the C:SM termies. The SW version seems a lot more balanced. Terminators with a power weapon are cheaper, but if you want a TH/SS on every model, it's going to be ridiculously expensive. 1-2 SS models in a squad is reasonable, but still pretty expensive.

[Brother Tibirius]

It's very cool to get new models and/or New conversion kits ,i'll be able to finish my company at last and new independant characters would be niceto, may be Rafen from the novels or the return of Moriar hopefully there is gonna be characters for the succesor chapters as well .... well only time will tell

Praise be the all mighty Emperor of mankind
and our Lord Sanguinius

[AngeloftheBlood]

It all comes down to the upgrade sprue to me we all ready have by far the worse codex in the history of gw it can not get worse

[lobster-overlord]

It all comes down to the upgrade sprue to me we all ready have by far the worse codex in the history of gw it can not get worse

Codex? We don't have a codex. We have 20 pages over two months of White Dwarf. That barely rates even being called an update, let alone a codex. The only thing that makes that even tolerable is the fact you can download it as a pdf, and not have to pay for the magazines.

[Just_Me]

The only thing that makes that even tolerable is the fact you can download it as a pdf, and not have to pay for the magazines.

Well, that is kinda a nice plus...

For my part I hope to see new models for most of the BA special characters (Dante still looks good, but Mephiston dearly needs an makeover and most of the others aren't far behind). If they also kept the cool detail of fangs we saw on the Space Hulk models, I wouldn't be displeased ;).

[Bigred]

Just Me wrote:


If they also kept the cool detail of fangs we saw on the Space Hulk models, I wouldn't be displeased

With how white hot Vampires are right now, they'd be fools to not try to cash in. I wouldn't be surprised to see some cheeseball "Twilight" homages in there... :)

But seriously, back to real rumors:

The latest I'm hearing is that the book is overall a "retuning" update and that the studio fundamentally likes the White Dwarf codex. What that means is you should look for a "Tau Empire" style update, with a full fluff section, lots of tuning, tweaking, recosting, and new ICs. There will of course be some new cool stuff, a Blood Angels upgrade sprue, and a handful of kits (look for any plastic/metal hybrid kits to get targeted for replacement) but this will not be a fundamental shift from what we already have.

[Katie Drake]

The latest I'm hearing is that the book is overall a "retuning" update and that the studio fundamentally likes the White Dwarf codex. What that means is you should look for a "Tau Empire" style update, with a full fluff section, lots of tuning, tweaking, recosting, and new ICs. There will of course be some new cool stuff, a Blood Angels upgrade sprue, and a handful of kits (look for any plastic/metal hybrid kits to get targeted for replacement) but this will not be a fundamental shift from what we already have.

Sounds good to me. The current ruleset is actually a step in the right direction - it just needs some fine tuning.

[lobster-overlord]

this will not be a fundamental shift from what we already have.


Which I am happy about, since I have a 30,000 point Apoc army that I don't have to have to rebuild/reallign.

Plastic Death Company would be a plus (mind you, it would be just the tac squad with the BA sprue painted black right?

John M>

[Cryl]

With how white hot Vampires are right now, they'd be fools to not try to cash in. I wouldn't be surprised to see some cheeseball "Twilight" homages in there... :)



Oh dear god please don't do that... vampires are cool and like you say white hot right now but I'd rather see an homage to anything but emolight, true blood would be interesting and a bit more grim dark!

[lobster-overlord]

I have some old red and blue metallic paints that would do well to make my BA look like they sparkle :-D

[DarkLink]

I have some old red and blue metallic paints that would do well to make my BA look like they sparkle :-D

I've got a comic for you. Actually a couple.
http://applegeeks.com/comics/viewcomic.php?issue=552
http://www.complexactions.com/archive/023.shtml

[Snyderson]

I really like the fluff around BAs but when I'm peeking over to the SWs, I really hope they do not exaggerate the "Vampirism"...

[Duke]

they haven't over exaggerated it before, in fact it is hardly mentioned... It is more something inferred as opposed to something directly written in the codex.

I like the idea of the white dwarf codex... But BA's need some serious updates. TH/SS and LR's should be brought up to speed (Redeemer). Also I love having two flamers in an assault squad if it is 10 men.

Short of that I would like to see the corbulo furious charge bubble taken away and given to the whole army. Maybe like the old dex where all BA had furious assault. I don't know about preferred enemy sticking around, but I could see Dante exchanging tactics for pref. enemy.

Though I did just re-read the "lucifer armoured strike force and at the end it says "...These modifications would later inform the template for the Baal Rhino, and a new era of armoured warfare for the Blood Angels." so it would seem that the whole chapter started fighting more in this style if it brought about a new era of armoured warfare. Could this tidbit be a hint?

Duke

[lobster-overlord]

All BA have fleet and all vehicles have OCE. Hows that for new era?

John M>Lick my Baals.....

[Snyderson]

they haven't over exaggerated it before, in fact it is hardly mentioned... It is more something inferred as opposed to something directly written in the codex.

Well looking at Canis Wolfborn makes me cringe in fear and remember NinjaBread's Blood Angels Captain Dracula (http://www.ninjabread.co.uk/comics/ninjabread-0013.gif) ...

[Duke]

Well looking at Canis Wolfborn makes me cringe in fear and remember NinjaBread's Blood Angels Captain Dracula (http://www.ninjabread.co.uk/comics/ninjabread-0013.gif) ...

Hella funny! I like the chainsift

[Duke]

All BA have fleet and all vehicles have OCE. Hows that for new era?

John M>Lick my Baals.....

They didn't say that fleet and OCE was the new era. If you read the datasheet it only allowed them to enter play via deepstrike (Thunderhawk insertion) and all vehicles are fast. If they were hinting at what might be coming in the new codex that would be it. (Stress the "IF" part)

Duke

[Duke]

So after seeing the new codex rules for Tyranids how do we think this will point towards changes in C:BA?

Obviously there is some power creep.
- Warriors as troops with 3 wounds each.
- Trygons in regular games.
- New weapons (probably for anit tank)
- Broolords as squad upgrades
etc.

I think this kind of throws out the old feeling of "GW will only slightly update the BA codex." to something like "Their going to make BA bad ++Censored by the inquisition++"

At this rate (based on imporvments in Tyranids) we could see things like all Rhinos/Razorbacks/ Landraiders counting as "fast," or giving the whole army Furious assault while dante adds pref enemy to the whole army.

Thoughts?

Duke

[lobster-overlord]

They didn't say that fleet and OCE was the new era. If you read the datasheet it only allowed them to enter play via deepstrike (Thunderhawk insertion) and all vehicles are fast. If they were hinting at what might be coming in the new codex that would be it. (Stress the "IF" part)

Duke


Actually, that was more of my wish list for things to come. I would love for them to be a speedy army like that.

John M>

[pacopaco]

I feel sorry for Blood Angels players. That "codex" split between the issues of white dwarf was way weak! Good for them that they're coming out with a new one. Red is is hard enough to paint!

[Duke]

lol, too true... Not only did we have to buy one WD, we have to buy two! It is so irritating... One WD codex is bad enough

Duke

[lobster-overlord]

Heck with that...I downloaded it online (I was out of touch during the year where it came out....).

And as to the Red, I still have bottles of the old flip lid Blood Angels Red that I'm working with... Talk about hard to use...

John M>

[chrixter]

I think this kind of throws out the old feeling of "GW will only slightly update the BA codex." to something like "Their going to make BA bad ++Censored by the inquisition++"


I doubt that BA will be very OTT. *Guessing* that the changes will be quite minor. A few new characters and some slight modifications. It is after all a 5th ed codex and all that it really needs is streamlining with the SM codex (and the IA). The major thing with the new codex is the fluff which I think will be a lot "vampires in space".

A few things which I think/guess will appear in the new BA codex:

* A BA Razorback with OCE - which BTW I think will be changed to something like +D6" movement (1=no move at all). Hopefully no "normal" vechicles can be choosen if a BA-version is availible.

* The DC will be bought rather than included in the cost of other units. Naturally all other units will become cheaper, probably copy'n paste from the SM codex.

* Cost changes (reductions) of the drop pods and dreadnaughts.

* The Red Thirst will come into play as something like the Ork Waargh, i.e. a feature called once per game adding something like prefferd enemy or "frenzy" to the whole army.

*Different characters unlocking the possibility to take VA, terminators, and DC as troop choices.

New models for a few characters and some nice upgrade sprues for both infantry and vehicles.

But as said. This is mere speculation.

[Duke]

A character unlocking DC as troops? Now that is something I haven't heard before. As a BA player I would love that, but I fear it won't happen... Even if it does everyone and their mother will scream "CODEX CREEP CHEESE!" But all of us will be very happy. (and Ill have a lot more to paint!)

Duke

[Murphius Stevus]

I think you have the right idea Chrixta.

Looking at the DA codex (yes old but "traditionally" twin codex of the BA) there are characters who allow you to play an army of just Deathwing Termies (Belial) or Ravenwing bikes (Sammael). This seems to be the best way for codices to go for the extraordinary marines.

The question is which special BA characters will/should allow which troop choices?:confused:

[lobster-overlord]

I am almost certain we're going to have rules for a Death Company army built in this time around rather than Chapter Approved. It's going to be expensive, require either Bro-Cpt Tycho or Lemartes (the point sink) and it would unlock DC as troops, DC w/ Jump as Fast Attack, and DC Dreads as Elites. DC Termies would be an awesome addition as well, but probably not an option.

Thinking about the idea of Fleet of Foot, I would love for a DC army to be fleet. Furious, Fleet, Rending. DC just needs to be the Bad @$$ BAs, but I know I am certainly asking for too much.

John M>

[ant1clock]

Dear Santa GW

I want Terminator squads of more the five, oh and mixed assault and shooty.

I want fast land raiders/rhinos/razorbacks that don't stall.

I want to choose whether I take the DC and I want to give them power weapons.

I want to assault out of rhinos/drop pods

I want a land raider with bad *** flamers.

I want tac squads that can have more than one flamer/melta.

I want assault squads that don't scatter.

I want ........ oh oh the spear of telesto, the holy lance.

[BeakieHelmet]

Dear Santa GW

I want Terminator squads of more the five, oh and mixed assault and shooty.

I want fast land raiders/rhinos/razorbacks that don't stall.

I want to choose whether I take the DC and I want to give them power weapons.

I want to assault out of rhinos/drop pods

I want a land raider with bad *** flamers.

I want tac squads that can have more than one flamer/melta.

I want assault squads that don't scatter.

I want ........ oh oh the spear of telesto, the holy lance.

Oh wait, you're serious, let me laugh even harder.

The only way BA's will get troops that won't scatter is with some sort of spotter unit like the Tau's pathfinder devilfish, and there is NO way they'll be able to assault out of the rhino/drop pod. That's just... That's just silly.

[ant1clock]

:):):):) Actually I thought the fast land raiders was a bit more of a stretch.

Assaulting out of rhinos shouldn't be that far of the mark, I mean if you can out of a land raider then why not a rhino. OK theres no assualt ramp but 18 inches of movement, pivot and youv'e got an assault ramp, right?? The drop pod OK I get the "I'm all shaken up after falling out the sky so I can't assault" but a rhino, that should be OK.

Assault squads that don't scatter. Stick a beacon on a rhino send up front, then deep strike the assault troops in on the beacon, no scatter.

But like all these things at the moment its all just wishlisting.

[archimbald]

damn i hope they bring out some nice stuff, and a new baal in plastic

[fuzzbuket]

@ antclock
NOOO this evil person has figuired out my awsome BA already
It does work well cheap =][= and assault squad with tele homer zoom to enemy then ka-deepstrike:D

[DarkLink]

Assaulting out of rhinos shouldn't be that far of the mark, I mean if you can out of a land raider then why not a rhino. OK theres no assualt ramp but 18 inches of movement, pivot and youv'e got an assault ramp, right?? The drop pod OK I get the "I'm all shaken up after falling out the sky so I can't assault" but a rhino, that should be OK.


Well, the assault ramp rule doesn't involve ramps anymore. It's just "assault vehicle" now.

[Duke]

yea, but you could make all BA Rhinos/ Razorbacks be assault vehicles, it would balance it SOME if they had to expose their rear, cause after the first time doing it the enemy would pop your precious little vehicle.

THe old Rhino rush was what people hated in the old 3rd ed codex. I think it will be more likely that they want us to use tons of assault marines.... that way GW has a whole army to make up for the lack of sales in that little area.

Duke

[DarkLink]

yea, but you could make all BA Rhinos/ Razorbacks be assault vehicles, it would balance it SOME if they had to expose their rear, cause after the first time doing it the enemy would pop your precious little vehicle.

THe old Rhino rush was what people hated in the old 3rd ed codex. I think it will be more likely that they want us to use tons of assault marines.... that way GW has a whole army to make up for the lack of sales in that little area.

Duke

Plus, GW seems to be trying to shift the metagame each time a new codex comes out. IG and SM created the cheap hordes of light vehicles, IG spelled the doom of Nob bikerz, etc. I suspect that rather than releasing another assault army based on light vehicles, they'll focus more on the jump pack aspect somehow.

Though of course we don't know really anything yet.

[pgarfunkle]

I would appreciate it if the jump pack army became more usable. Blood Angels able to re-roll dangerous terrain tests or getting an armour save perhaps. I say this because I have an ability to kill my own troops through dangerous terrain tests. I lose as many death company to dangerous terrain as enemy fire some battles lol and have managed to kill 4 Assault Marines in one move on an occasion. Funny but painful lol

[Shagrath]

heard a few rumors today from a more than reliable source, not sure how much im allowed to divulge here, but expect some awesome surprises

[DarkLink]

heard a few rumors today from a more than reliable source, not sure how much im allowed to divulge here, but expect some awesome surprises

Nice entrance with your first post;). Do we get to play 20 questions now?

[Anarchyman99]

RAS with Fleet and VAS Fleet and power weapons in place of flamer/plasma/melta. Yes please!

[HsojVvad]

20 questions? Ok I'll go first. Is it bigger than a bread box?

[Shagrath]

what im referring to is smaller than a bread box, but feasibly more violent ;)

[Anarchyman99]

what im referring to is smaller than a bread box, but feasibly more violent ;)

Would this violent smaller than bread box, say be airborne, plastic and have a transport capacity?

Wink,wink, nod, nod say no more....

[Shagrath]

why does everyone ask about the plastic thunderhawk that may or may not exist :rolleyes:

in any case lots of fun new characters coming up.

[lobster-overlord]

Last I checked, a thunderhawk is much bigger than a bread box, unless we're talking about a HUGE loaf of bread.

[Duke]

A really really killy bread box

[lobster-overlord]

If they release the Thunderhawk as part of either the missions book or the BA codex, I'm going to a) go broke this year, or b) finally get motivated to build the hunk of metal piled in the corner that calls itself a thunderhawk (yes I have one of those sitting around).

I should probably build the metal one into a bread box for the kitchen.

John M>

[Aldramelech]

Goodbye

[lobster-overlord]

OK, you got me. I suppose that's "technically" a bread box of a sort.

[Shagrath]

does that make the gorgon an enormous resin breadbox? or better yet the manta?

[twistinthunder]

not a clue. possibly. furusio dreadnaught? is smaller than a bread box as is the baal predator and so would be a battleforce all of which are infinatly more likely to come out instead of the thunderhawk.

if a thunderhawk comes out at some point in the march/april releases i might need to reconsider starting renegade guard i'd also HAVE to get an airbrush.

[Drew da Destroya]

does that make the gorgon an enormous resin breadbox? or better yet the manta?

Only if you store bread in it. In which case, yes.

[Anarchyman99]

Last I checked, a thunderhawk is much bigger than a bread box.....

Some bread boxes are bigger than others.....

[BS FADE]

Has GW finally answered the cries for a bigger bread box.....

http://www.wlra.us/wl/awlbread.htm


On a actual relevant note i think that the BA getting a update is encouraging. If you look at the army selection for BA a lot of it already exists in plastic. This could point to GW throwing out other codexs for mostly already plastic armies as well.

Tau for one with a few exceptions is plastic, and i for one would like for them to get a surprise new book as well.