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slobulous
10-12-2009, 12:44 AM
All of the infantry in my army are the metal Kasrkin models. I just count them as Veterans. Since they are one-piece metal models, I am unable to equip them with shotguns. So, I just call their lasguns "lascarbines" which fire a quick burst at short range, counting as shotguns.

HQ:
Company Command Squad - 4x plasma guns 110
Chimera - hull heavy flamer 55

Company Command Squad - 4x melta guns 90
Chimera - hull heavy flamer 55

Elites:
Inquisitor - 2x Mystics, 3x Warriors with plasma guns 92

Troops:
Veteran Squad - shotguns, 3x melta guns, demolitions 130
Chimera - hull heavy flamer 55

Veteran Squad - shotguns, 3x melta guns, demolitions 130
Chimera - hull heavy flamer 55

Veteran Squad - shotguns, 3x melta guns, demolitions 130
Chimera - hull heavy flamer 55

Veteran Squad - shotguns, 3x flamers 85
Veteran Squad - shotguns, 3x flamers 85
Veteran Squad - shotguns, 3x flamers 85
Chimera - hull heavy flamer 55 (the flamer vets ride in the vendettas, the inquisitor will ride in this)

Fast Attack:
Vendetta - 130
Vendetta - 130
Vendetta - 130

Heavy Support:
Hydra Flak Tank Squadron - hull heavy bolters 225
Demolisher Squadron - hull heavy flamers 330
Colossus Ordnance Battery - hull heavy flamers 280

Total:
2492

I worked on this list for 2 months. I believe it has more firepower and armor than the "Leafblower" list. I could drop the power fists and throw in the Inquisitor + Mystics in a pinch if necessary. If anyone has any ideas or suggestions to improve it any further, please post!

Chumbalaya
10-12-2009, 06:48 AM
Drop the PFs for more meltas, give the Vendettas heavy bolters.

I'd also drop the Demos sponsons and get a heavy flamer. Sponsons are overpriced and force you to be static, it's much better to stay mobile.

A Mystic+Inquisitor combo would be most useful.

mercer
10-12-2009, 09:56 AM
Seems ok, though the russes will be weaker in squadrons.

Chumby, you forgetting the lumbering behemoth rule? You can move up to 6" and still fire ordnance and other weapons too.

DoctorEvil
10-12-2009, 10:56 AM
So that means with Lumbering Behemoth you can fire two weapons....Turret and Hull. If you add Sponsons, that gives you another option for firing the 2nd weapon, but doesn't increase your actual firepower unless you stand still.

I think a case could be made for a static Russ build with Sponsons in some build, but it doesn't fit with the theme of this list.

Chumbalaya
10-12-2009, 11:07 AM
Yep, you can move 6" and fire 1 weapon plus the turret. Considering that multi-meltas would be 1 shot at BS3, I don't consider it all that useful for 30 points. Plasma + Demolisher may have a case, but that's about it.

slobulous
10-12-2009, 12:31 PM
The Demolishers will pop smoke and move 12 inches the first turn, to the center of the board, where their short range won't be a problem. Then, they will remain stationary and shoot at anything I need them to, only moving if something is about to get in charge range. That is the only reason to move tanks, to keep melee attackers from auto-hitting. While I agree that transports and fast vehicles need to keep mobile, there are plenty of opportunities for tanks to keep still and unleash all their firepower. Saying that they need to keep mobile is too big of a generalization. For instance, against Tau or other shooty armies, or when there are no charge threats near, there is almost no reason to move a tank, besides just to get its weapons in range.

SlavesToDarkness
10-12-2009, 01:57 PM
1) Please remember the Lumbering Behemoth rule. Demolishers only move 6 + D6" at full speed. I highly doubt you will roll a 6 every time.

2) Strongly disagree: given the short, short range of a Demolisher's main gun, you will almost ALWAYS be moving to get them into range.

3) Demolisher + hull Heavy Flamer is where it's AT. Only 165pts is a steal. However, they still work pretty well with just a lascannon due to the increased range and the double-threat they pose to armor.

All that being said: On the Demolisher's, swap out the lascannons (you have plenty of Anti-tank) for heavy flamers and drop the sponsons. That alone will save you 90pts. That's easily enough for an Inquisitor with Mystics.

slobulous
10-12-2009, 02:21 PM
1) Please remember the Lumbering Behemoth rule. Demolishers only move 6 + D6" at full speed.

I forgot the downside of the rule. Thanks. But even still, I strongly disagree right back. 24" is not super short range. I consider 18 and under short, 24-36 medium, and 48+ long. If the opponent's forces are over 24 inches away, I am at a huge advantage, as my Hydras, Colossi, Chimerae, and Vendettas will be able to pound away without much reprisal. The Demolishers are like a buffer for when the enemy tries to close in. It's area denial to keep stuff out of the minimum range of the Colossi. If they are not trying to get close, then they are trying to outshoot IG, and that usually ends poorly.

Chumbalaya
10-12-2009, 02:57 PM
Second StD (tee hee), the no sponson with flamer options is cheap and you don't lose out on anything.

You'll have to sit still for those meltas and they're BS3, not exactly worthwhile for 30 points. To get maximum effectiveness you have to be within 12", which is definitely short ranged and begging to get you charged next turn. Outside of 12" it's just 2 S8 shots, not enough to instaglib T5 or really do much to AV14. Sure it's can kill termies, but plasma cannons would do a much better job at a longer range. Meltas need to get close, and lumbering behemoths generally don't do that.

slobulous
10-12-2009, 03:27 PM
Yes I am heavily considering switching to plasma cannons, but I am arguing for the benefits of side sponsons in general. The demolisher cannon by itself just doesn't do enough for me. If it takes a weapon destroyed result, I'm left with an AV14 heavy flamer. I like to have options. Putting other nasty guns on it basically forces the enemy to destroy it to eliminate the threat.

Chumbalaya
10-12-2009, 06:01 PM
I understand that, it's just that none of the sponsons are particularly useful beyond plasma, and instead of that you can get more bodies or vehicles (like an autocannon Sentinel). And even if the big gun gets popped, you have an AV14 wall with a heavy flamer, good for contesting, blocking LoS, ramming, and so on. Plus, with the points saved you can just get more.

slobulous
10-12-2009, 06:15 PM
That's the thing though. I can't really get more. Remember that I have tweaked this list for 2 months. I have tried dropping the sponsons and the hull lascannons, freeing up 90-110 points (depending on sponson type) and I can't figure out how to do anything meaningful with that. All of the HQ, Troop, Fast Attack, and Heavy slots are taken up already, and I do not like any of the IG's elite choices in the new codex. There isn't really anything I can do without changing the core of the list, so I spent the 110 points to make the demolishers more beefy. What do you suggest, besides the Inq+Mystics?

Chumbalaya
10-12-2009, 08:15 PM
Well, an Inquisitor with Mystics riding in a Chimera will run around 90 points (if you pick up an IG Chimera mind you).

Otherwise sponsons would be fine, they aren't my favorite but they can work.

slobulous
10-12-2009, 08:31 PM
Can the Inquisitor with Mystics use his power while inside a chimera?
EDIT: Found the answer to this in the 5th ed rule book. The answer is yes he can. I believe I have found a way to include the Inq+Mystics with an IG chimera by dropping the lascannons and sponons, while still maintaining some of the firepower. I will post in a moment after I run some numbers.

EDIT2: I HAVE IT! I drop the 3 power fists, the hull lascannons, and the plasma cannons which gives me 155 points. I get a chimera from one of the flamer vet squads that won't be using it, which is 55. Inq+Mystics is 32. Then, I can get 3 Warrior henchmen with plasma or melta guns for 60 points, and they can shoot out of the fire points. That helps to make up some of the lost firepower from the Demolishers. List updated in original post. This leaves 8 points left over. Is there any useful wargear I can give the inquisitor with 8 points?

Chumbalaya
10-12-2009, 10:09 PM
A targeter is handy for pre-measuring your shots, Tarot is handy but a bit pricier.

Garo
10-12-2009, 11:14 PM
I'm in the process of building a similar list, and I had a few questions I was hoping you could answer:

How do you usually use the flamer vets, and how well do they work? I know you mount them in the vendettas, but vendettas can only move 6 inches a turn if you want them to fire all 3 las. Are they mainly used to flame units on objectives in later turns?

How useful is the demolitions doctrine? It seems like it would be difficult to assault a vehicle with chimera vets, given that they have to wait around for a turn if their chimera moved before they dismounted. Or do you use it mainly for the demo charge?

slobulous
10-13-2009, 02:21 AM
I'm in the process of building a similar list, and I had a few questions I was hoping you could answer:

How do you usually use the flamer vets, and how well do they work? I know you mount them in the vendettas, but vendettas can only move 6 inches a turn if you want them to fire all 3 las. Are they mainly used to flame units on objectives in later turns?

How useful is the demolitions doctrine? It seems like it would be difficult to assault a vehicle with chimera vets, given that they have to wait around for a turn if their chimera moved before they dismounted. Or do you use it mainly for the demo charge?

Vendettas have the Scouts special rule, which allows them to have a movement phase before the game starts. They are Fast Skimmers, so can turbo boost 24 inches. This also gives them a 4+ cover save in case your opponent goes first. If you go first, you can then move it an extra 6 inches, and disembark 2, making 32 total inches. You can usually make it to your target and bathe it in fire on your first turn. Sometimes, if I don't need the extra 6 inches of normal movement, I disembark them right away to allow them to charge the survivors after they shoot. I can also very easily switch the flame vets out for the melta vets and do the same thing, except against tanks, which is why I use Demolitions for both the demo charge and the melta bombs. Or in objective missions, you can tank hunt for a while and then drop them on an objective late game and flame it/demo charge it. There are a LOT of tactical options to choose from with this setup

EDIT: I forgot to mention, using this method, you still get to fire all your lascannons

Silver
10-13-2009, 06:17 AM
Another option for the inquisitor is the use of servitors. The gun servitors with heavy bolters looks pretty dangerous. At bs4 and the ability for the officers to give the squad orders, makes them pretty capable of doing a lot of damage. They even have targeters xD

If you also add a mystic, then its a nasty surprise for those deep strkers.
fair bit of points into that unit though...

~Silver

SlavesToDarkness
10-13-2009, 04:28 PM
IG Officers cannot give Inquisitor units orders. Check the FAQ.

Silver
10-13-2009, 05:42 PM
ah, ok thanks. Yeah, theres that and the fact that you cant take more than 3 servitors.


~Silver